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[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

The parts of the novel that take place in the main living quarters of Spire are during a state of emergency. The original Knight-Commander (we never meet him) has been dismissed although he sounds like he was generally reasonable based on Knight-Captain Evangeline's memories of serving beneath him. Enchanter Rhys is in trouble almost from the beginning of the novel, so when we see the Spire through Rhys' eyes, we're only getting to see what happens when a senior mage is accused of a committing a heinous crime.

Ah, this is a good point. Hmm... I think I may be interested enough in this to go back and see how much they talked about "the good old days." Clearly they had much more freedom around the Tower itself before the crackdown. But, it was every time they talked about the dungeon that seemed extreme to me.

I mean, at Kinloch Hold they sent you to Aeonar instead of their own dungeon, although I don't know what the parameter space is for imprisonment decisions there (for example, I thought Lily's punishment was too harsh). I've been wondering if this was (at least partially) because Ferelden's Tower didn't have its own dungeon (don't recall) and/or because Aeonar is in Fereldan and so nearby compared to the other Circles. But, in Ferelden I would have imagined that if you were caught out after curfew, you might have been sent to bed without supper or something, not sent to the dungeon.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

That last part sounds like the Shepard/Kaidan Shepard/Ashley thing in ME2 & ME3 lol.

But you're right, Cullen does have a lost child feel to his personality. Tbh, I don't think he done the best job of being Knight-Captain, sure he can fight and lead Templars into battle... but aside from that he seemed to fail epically at his job (but that could just be down to bad writing.) Either way, he was far too young to be put into a position like that... which makes me think that Meredith already had a few mental issues prior to getting her hands on the lyrium idol.

I'm half expecting to find him on a downer at some point during DA3 and go into a rant about how he's a rubbish Templar etc.

I still haven't played the ME series but if they've done something like this, I wouldn't be surprised if they do it again. 

I think Cullen failing at his job repeatedly is a bit endearing (in an odd way) and a product of good writing rather than bad writing. 

It would be very fitting to see him go into a rant on how he's a rubbish templar. Even if he only comes back as an NPC, I would love to see this happen. 

EDITTED TO ADD:  For him, being a rubbish templar is actually a good thing. It makes him far more human rather than a zealous mage killing machine.

Modifié par vieralynn, 24 juin 2012 - 07:46 .

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

The parts of the novel that take place in the main living quarters of Spire are during a state of emergency. The original Knight-Commander (we never meet him) has been dismissed although he sounds like he was generally reasonable based on Knight-Captain Evangeline's memories of serving beneath him. Enchanter Rhys is in trouble almost from the beginning of the novel, so when we see the Spire through Rhys' eyes, we're only getting to see what happens when a senior mage is accused of a committing a heinous crime.

Ah, this is a good point. Hmm... I think I may be interested enough in this to go back and see how much they talked about "the good old days." Clearly they had much more freedom around the Tower itself before the crackdown. But, it was every time they talked about the dungeon that seemed extreme to me.

I mean, at Kinloch Hold they sent you to Aeonar instead of their own dungeon, although I don't know what the parameter space is for imprisonment decisions there (for example, I thought Lily's punishment was too harsh). I've been wondering if this was (at least partially) because Ferelden's Tower didn't have its own dungeon (don't recall) and/or because Aeonar is in Fereldan and so nearby compared to the other Circles. But, in Ferelden I would have imagined that if you were caught out after curfew, you might have been sent to bed without supper or something, not sent to the dungeon.

Ferelden must have had some sort of jail cell area because Anders spent some of his time locked up in solitary and he never mentioned being sent to Aeonar.

(I need to run for a little while but I'll be back online later...) 

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse: The White Spire also seemed to be brutally strict in response to the mage uprising in Kirkwall and unrest in other circles. I wonder if the White Spire has always been that bad or if it was a recent development.

The unexplained inconsistencies across the circles is, imho, one of the biggest weaknesses of the entire mage-templar-chantry story plot. It could be a product of the writers changing their minds over time once they decided to flesh out the mage-templar-chantry situation, or it could just be a matter of ideas never being fully realized in DA2 (victim of time pressure) or Asunder (for reasons unknown).

Right, hence my Asunder!White Spire ref, which rather parallels Act3!Gallows, since both seem to be strict (over)reactions to other stimuli... the Chantry blow-up in the case of the White Spire and Meredith paranoia in DA2: Act 3.

I am also very curious about what the White Spire is "normally" like. According to Dawn of the Seeker, the mages are all Chantry loving and happy go lucky (har har har), and sometimes let out of the tower to do "things."  However, I think the aspect of Asunder that was hard to swallow for me was the casualness with which Evangeline (the "rational" character) talked about throwing mages in the dungeon, which to be honest, didn't sound like a new development to me. So, this could either be an indicator that the White Spire has always been more strict than the Fereldan Tower, or like you say, just another example of inconsistent writing.  Honestly, I'd put my money on BOTH.

I still haven't had a chance to watch Dawn of the Seeker. (Need to tell amazon to take more of my money:P)

It may also be that we just didn't get a chance to see what happens to "bad" mages in DA:O. Anders was in the Ferelden circle and he spent time in solitary confinement. Comparing it to the high school analogy, if most students are well behaved and do what their teachers expect, they don't know what it is like for the ones who get sent to detention. Maybe most mages in the Ferelden circle did what they were told to do and punishment was rare purely because they did nothing to warrant it. Yet, for the templars, the situation is different. They're the ones who must keep an eye out for suspicious behavior and deal out punishment when a mage is caught doing something dangerous or wrong. Once a templar works their way up the ranks like Evangeline did, she's probably seen it all and she might even wonder why mages bother to start trouble when they know it will result in punishment. That attitute would account for her casualness about tossing mages into the dungeon, perhaps?

Ah, good point about Anders. I'd forgotten about solitary confinement. I wonder now if that was in an actual dungeon. Does he say?

OH, and re: dawn of the Seeker, FWIW, it's cheaper on itunes than amazon (I found out after ordering my DVD), if that at all helps. Although, lore wise it raises more questions than it answers.<_<

edit: seeya later!

Modifié par R2s Muse, 24 juin 2012 - 07:51 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

But you're right, Cullen does have a lost child feel to his personality. Tbh, I don't think he done the best job of being Knight-Captain, sure he can fight and lead Templars into battle... but aside from that he seemed to fail epically at his job (but that could just be down to bad writing.) Either way, he was far too young to be put into a position like that... which makes me think that Meredith already had a few mental issues prior to getting her hands on the lyrium idol.

I'm half expecting to find him on a downer at some point during DA3 and go into a rant about how he's a rubbish Templar etc.

Ah... interesting. Do you mean, failed at protecting the people of Kirkwall from evil mages? Or protecting the mages from themselves and those who would harm them for what they are? Heh heh, yeah, fail on both points, eh? Ah, pobrecito. It would be interesting to see him reflect on that! Especially since he may not even know what his "job" is anymore.

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

That last part sounds like the Shepard/Kaidan Shepard/Ashley thing in ME2 & ME3 lol.

But you're right, Cullen does have a lost child feel to his personality. Tbh, I don't think he done the best job of being Knight-Captain, sure he can fight and lead Templars into battle... but aside from that he seemed to fail epically at his job (but that could just be down to bad writing.) Either way, he was far too young to be put into a position like that... which makes me think that Meredith already had a few mental issues prior to getting her hands on the lyrium idol.

I'm half expecting to find him on a downer at some point during DA3 and go into a rant about how he's a rubbish Templar etc.

I still haven't played the ME series but if they've done something like this, I wouldn't be surprised if they do it again. 

I think Cullen failing at his job repeatedly is a bit endearing (in an odd way) and a product of good writing rather than bad writing. 

It would be very fitting to see him go into a rant on how he's a rubbish templar. Even if he only comes back as an NPC, I would love to see this happen. 

EDITTED TO ADD:  For him, being a rubbish templar is actually a good thing. It makes him far more human rather than a zealous mage killing machine.

I kinda meant bad writing along the lines of, we never actually saw what he failed at but he must have done since he can't detect a blood mage when she's standing infront of him LOL! But, I know the whole being a mage/lack of detection thing was definitely down to bad writing.

LOL I guess it is quite endearing isn't it! I'm pretty sure the DA team will crack a few jokes about it in DA3. I think they should totally run with that as an issue for Cullen. He's DA's fall boy most definitely, he has the worst luck in the world, yet I don't think he'd have any regrets about letting a pro-Hawke go/killing Meredith.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

But you're right, Cullen does have a lost child feel to his personality. Tbh, I don't think he done the best job of being Knight-Captain, sure he can fight and lead Templars into battle... but aside from that he seemed to fail epically at his job (but that could just be down to bad writing.) Either way, he was far too young to be put into a position like that... which makes me think that Meredith already had a few mental issues prior to getting her hands on the lyrium idol.

I'm half expecting to find him on a downer at some point during DA3 and go into a rant about how he's a rubbish Templar etc.

Ah... interesting. Do you mean, failed at protecting the people of Kirkwall from evil mages? Or protecting the mages from themselves and those who would harm them for what they are? Heh heh, yeah, fail on both points, eh? Ah, pobrecito. It would be interesting to see him reflect on that! Especially since he may not even know what his "job" is anymore.

Well, he'd definitely feel like he failed at protecting the mages and Templars in the Ferelden circle, which he pointed out during the Broken Circle quest DA:O, but I think he'll also feel like he could have done more to prevent Meredith's madness/death (I doubt he's aware of the full extent the lyrium idol played in causing her mental breakdown) and that he couldn't detect a mages/blood mages... and maybe even more importantly, he didn't do anything about the rape and abuse of Mages at the hands of the very Templars he works with/is incharge of.

I'm hoping they'll address the Gallows rape/torture issue in DA3, perhaps he could make passing reference to the fact that he had apprehended several Templars caught abusing their power or that he had reported said Templars to Meredith but she just brushed it under the carpet, leading Cullen to feel bad that he didn't do more to ensure the Mages in his care were safe.

Modifié par LolaLei, 24 juin 2012 - 08:17 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

But you're right, Cullen does have a lost child feel to his personality. Tbh, I don't think he done the best job of being Knight-Captain, sure he can fight and lead Templars into battle... but aside from that he seemed to fail epically at his job (but that could just be down to bad writing.) Either way, he was far too young to be put into a position like that... which makes me think that Meredith already had a few mental issues prior to getting her hands on the lyrium idol.

I'm half expecting to find him on a downer at some point during DA3 and go into a rant about how he's a rubbish Templar etc.

Ah... interesting. Do you mean, failed at protecting the people of Kirkwall from evil mages? Or protecting the mages from themselves and those who would harm them for what they are? Heh heh, yeah, fail on both points, eh? Ah, pobrecito. It would be interesting to see him reflect on that! Especially since he may not even know what his "job" is anymore.

Well, he'd definitely feel like he failed at protecting the mages and Templars in the Ferelden circle, which he pointed out during the Broken Circle quest DA:O, but I think he'll also feel like he could have done more to prevent Meredith's madness/death (I doubt he's aware of the full extent the lyrium idol played in causing her mental breakdown) and that he couldn't detect a mages/blood mages... and maybe even more importantly, he didn't go anything about the rape and abuse of Mages by the Templars that he was incharge of.

I'm hoping they'll address the Gallows rape/torture issue in DA3, perhaps he could make passing reference to the fact that he had apprehending several Templars caught abusing their power or that he had reported said Templars to Meredith but she just brushed it under the carpet, leading Cullen to feel bad that he didn't do more to ensure the Mages in his care were safe.

Good points. And, I agree about them explaining the abuses somehow. I like your last example probably the best. I don't like thinking of him as so clueless he had no idea when there are mages just traipsing around the Gallows courtyard talking about it. I could see Meredith just saying that it was one of her issues to deal with, like how she might have dealt with any challenges to her Tranquility for any mage who "deserves" it policy.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

LOL I guess it is quite endearing isn't it! I'm pretty sure the DA team will crack a few jokes about it in DA3. I think they should totally run with that as an issue for Cullen. He's DA's fall boy most definitely, he has the worst luck in the world, yet I don't think he'd have any regrets about letting a pro-Hawke go/killing Meredith.

LOL Which requires a shout out to this Heroes and Champions!

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

I am also very curious about what the White Spire is "normally" like. According to Dawn of the Seeker, the mages are all Chantry loving and happy go lucky (har har har), and sometimes let out of the tower to do "things."  However, I think the aspect of Asunder that was hard to swallow for me was the casualness with which Evangeline (the "rational" character) talked about throwing mages in the dungeon, which to be honest, didn't sound like a new development to me. So, this could either be an indicator that the White Spire has always been more strict than the Fereldan Tower, or like you say, just another example of inconsistent writing.  Honestly, I'd put my money on BOTH.

!!! Asunder spoilers !!! Read at your own risk...








At the end of Asunder, High Seeker Lambert, a newcomer to the Spire and not a longtime resident like Evangeline, talks to Rhys and tells him that there never was a Cole. He says that he personally searched the records and found nothing to indicate that a child by that name or description was ever there. Rhys goes away from it convinced that he has been mislead by a demon and has murdered innocents himself, possibly at the demon's instigation. In the epilogue, Cole appears to Lambert and tells him that there was a Cole and that when the templars discovered what they had done, locking a wounded child up and leaving him to die (just as they had done with Rhys!), they hushed it up and erased all record of Cole ever having been there. This happened a decade or more before the start of Asunder. Given Evangeline's nonchalant reaction to atrocities, Anders's year in solitary confinement (deserved or not), and Malcolm's determination that no mage child of his would be sent to the Circle, we may have to consider the possibility that the potential for neglect and abuse were always there.

Throughout history, groups of people have been incarcerated "for their own protection." Even if it starts out with good intentions, it doesn't take long for abuses to creep in. Check out the Stanford prison experiment.

It is possible that we were shown the "good side" of the Ferelden Circle because it was one of the possible protagonist origins. Or it is possible that the dev team didn't want to divert player attention from the Blight to living conditions inside the Circle. Or it was retconned. We may never know.

Modifié par berelinde, 24 juin 2012 - 08:36 .

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Good points. And, I agree about them explaining the abuses somehow. I like your last example probably the best. I don't like thinking of him as so clueless he had no idea when there are mages just traipsing around the Gallows courtyard talking about it. I could see Meredith just saying that it was one of her issues to deal with, like how she might have dealt with any challenges to her Tranquility for any mage who "deserves" it policy.

Y'know, I really disliked how there was only maybe 3 sympathetic Templar characters in DA2, 2 of which you only see briefly. I know they portrayed almost every mage in Kirkwall as mad or a blood Mage, but they always made a point of showing us that it was just retaliationdue to the Templars and Meredith treating them badly. DG said that neither the Mages or the Templars are supposed to be ultimately "bad" or "good" but I think they could have done a better job at showing us the plight that the Templars have to deal with on a day to day basis. It wouldn't have taken much for them to give us a few flash backs of Cullen's torture in Ferelden or had him go into a bit more detail about it, maybe even shown us a Templar suffering from severe lyrium withdrawl symptoms, or a Templar caught having a relationship with one of the Gallows Mages, to which Meredith reacts by making said Templar strike down his lover as punishment (thus showing us the Knight Commanders gradual descent into madness.)

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

I am also very curious about what the White Spire is "normally" like. According to Dawn of the Seeker, the mages are all Chantry loving and happy go lucky (har har har), and sometimes let out of the tower to do "things."  However, I think the aspect of Asunder that was hard to swallow for me was the casualness with which Evangeline (the "rational" character) talked about throwing mages in the dungeon, which to be honest, didn't sound like a new development to me. So, this could either be an indicator that the White Spire has always been more strict than the Fereldan Tower, or like you say, just another example of inconsistent writing.  Honestly, I'd put my money on BOTH.

!!! Asunder spoilers !!! Read at your own risk...









At the end of Asunder, High Seeker Lambert, a newcomer to the Spire and not a longtime resident like Evangeline, talks to Rhys and tells him that there never was a Cole. He says that he personally searched the records and found nothing to indicate that a child by that name or description was ever there. Rhys goes away from it convinced that he has been mislead by a demon and has murdered innocents himself, possibly at the demon's instigation. In the epilogue, Cole appears to Lambert and tells him that there was a Cole and that when the templars discovered what they had done, locking a wounded child up and leaving him to die (just as they had done with Rhys!), they hushed it up and erased all record of Cole ever having been there. This happened a decade or more before the start of Asunder. Given Evangeline's nonchalant reaction to atrocities, Anders's year in solitary confinement (deserved or not), and Malcolm's determination that no mage child of his would be sent to the Circle, we may have to consider the possibility that the potential for neglect and abuse were always there.

Throughout history, groups of people have been incarcerated "for their own protection." Even if it starts out with good intentions, it doesn't take long for abuses to creep in. Check out the Stanford prison experiment.

It is possible that we were shown the "good side" of the Ferelden Circle because it was one of the possible protagonist origins. Or it is possible that the dev team didn't want to divert player attention from the Blight to living conditions inside the Circle. Or it was retconned. We may never know.

Omg, poor kid! Why was he even locked up to die down there in the first place?

Modifié par LolaLei, 24 juin 2012 - 08:41 .

[berelinde]

He was a child with talents no one could explain. He was not a mage, but he seemed to display a few supernatural abilities. The templars incarcerated him as a mage because they didn't know what else to do with him.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...


Omg, poor kid! Why was he even locked up to die down there in the first place?

THIS is the question, in a nutshell. Berelinde's example is right on the money. It was references like that made my skin crawl. The fact that it seemed part of new mage processing was to first throw you in a dungeon. Not a cell. But a full on, creepy crawly dungeon. The despair with which they described the mages down there was... disconcerting. And, it all seemed to be de rigueur.

So, thanks berelinde, that's a good example to add to my pile.

And, you know, Lola, you should probably just go ahead and read Asunder. LORE GALORE in that one. And, yes, I know that rhymes. I can "loan" you my kindle version if you like (I think I could figure out how to do that on amazon... dunno if it works international, tho.)

Modifié par R2s Muse, 24 juin 2012 - 08:50 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Good points. And, I agree about them explaining the abuses somehow. I like your last example probably the best. I don't like thinking of him as so clueless he had no idea when there are mages just traipsing around the Gallows courtyard talking about it. I could see Meredith just saying that it was one of her issues to deal with, like how she might have dealt with any challenges to her Tranquility for any mage who "deserves" it policy.

Y'know, I really disliked how there was only maybe 3 sympathetic Templar characters in DA2, 2 of which you only see briefly. I know they portrayed almost every mage in Kirkwall as mad or a blood Mage, but they always made a point of showing us that it was just retaliationdue to the Templars and Meredith treating them badly. DG said that neither the Mages or the Templars are supposed to be ultimately "bad" or "good" but I think they could have done a better job at showing us the plight that the Templars have to deal with on a day to day basis. It wouldn't have taken much for them to give us a few flash backs of Cullen's torture in Ferelden or had him go into a bit more detail about it, maybe even shown us a Templar suffering from severe lyrium withdrawl symptoms, or a Templar caught having a relationship with one of the Gallows Mages, to which Meredith reacts by making said Templar strike down his lover as punishment (thus showing us the Knight Commanders gradual descent into madness.)

You know, DG has an interesting comment about this ... somewhere. Probably the Thedas UK interview? He talks about how they made certain choices because western culture always tends to side with the underdog. So, it seems a really hard balance to strike, keeping both sides equally good/bad, while recognizing that your target audience will naturally side with one of them no matter what. Seems like you'd want to weight the other side then, but then how much do you weight it?  Tough indeed.

You know, if I were on the dev team at this point I would yell, "Eureka!" and say, "why don't we also write companion short stories to flesh out some of the story we can't tell ingame??"

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...


Omg, poor kid! Why was he even locked up to die down there in the first place?

THIS is the question, in a nutshell. Berelinde's example is right on the money. It was references like that made my skin crawl. The fact that it seemed part of new mage processing was to first throw you in a dungeon. Not a cell. But a full on, creepy crawly dungeon. The despair with which they described the mages down there was... disconcerting. And, it all seemed to be de rigeour.

So, thanks berelinde, that's a good example to add to my pile.

And, you know, Lola, you should probably just go ahead and read Asunder. LORE GALORE in that one. And, yes, I know that rhymes. I can "loan" you my kindle version if you like (I think I could figure out how to do that on amazon... dunno if it works international, tho.)

Aw thanks, but I don't own a kindle... I should really look into getting one though.

I wonder what kind of special powers he had? Maybe kinda similar to Sandal's, because he can do "not enchantments" and has creepy predictions.

It would be kinda cool if it turned out our next protagonist had Cole's special powers too, because all 3 classes could have them, including a mage, which would be an additional power that regular Mages don't possess or something.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

You know, if I were on the dev team at this point I would yell, "Eureka!" and say, "why don't we also write companion short stories to flesh out some of the story we can't tell ingame??"

They should totally do that! Although, I know Hepler wrote a short one recently about Anders and his transition between DA:A and DA2. I'd love for them to write a short story for each of the new companions that they'd release weekly/twice weekly a month before DA3 came out in shops (that's presuming they tell us who our companions are before release like they did last time.)

The short stories could go into a bit of detail about each characters past/childhood and what they were doing prior to DA3 that led them to Orlais... or whereever it'll be set this time round

Modifié par LolaLei, 24 juin 2012 - 09:01 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...


Omg, poor kid! Why was he even locked up to die down there in the first place?

THIS is the question, in a nutshell. Berelinde's example is right on the money. It was references like that made my skin crawl. The fact that it seemed part of new mage processing was to first throw you in a dungeon. Not a cell. But a full on, creepy crawly dungeon. The despair with which they described the mages down there was... disconcerting. And, it all seemed to be de rigeour.

So, thanks berelinde, that's a good example to add to my pile.

And, you know, Lola, you should probably just go ahead and read Asunder. LORE GALORE in that one. And, yes, I know that rhymes. I can "loan" you my kindle version if you like (I think I could figure out how to do that on amazon... dunno if it works international, tho.)

Aw thanks, but I don't own a kindle... I should really look into getting one though.

I wonder what kind of special powers he had? Maybe kinda similar to Sandal's, because he can do "not enchantments" and has creepy predictions.

It would be kinda cool if it turned out our next protagonist had Cole's special powers too, because all 3 classes could have them, including a mage, which would be an additional power that regular Mages don't possess or something.

NP. Altho, FWIW, you can also download a kindle reader on any computer.

Honestly, I don't recall the special powers part with Cole, so I'd have to go look at that again. Cole was a big ole question mark, as far as I was concerned, with few definitive answers.

But, in terms of people with special powers, I keep getting the feeling that they are not uncommon in the DA universe. Like, the little girl in Dawn of the Circle, or the Rivaini witches, or Galyan's disappear against the wall thing, I think they trot out uncommon powers often enough that either they use the DA hand wave too often, or the Circle only has a very limited  understanding of magic.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

You know, if I were on the dev team at this point I would yell, "Eureka!" and say, "why don't we also write companion short stories to flesh out some of the story we can't tell ingame??"

They should totally do that! Although, I know Hepler wrote a short one recently about Anders and his transition between DA:A and DA2. I'd love for them to write a short story for each of the new companions that they'd release weekly/twice weekly a month before DA3 came out in shops (that's presuming they tell us who our companions are before release like they did last time.)

The short stories could go into a bit of detail about each characters past/childhood and what they were doing prior to DA3 that led them to Orlais... or whereever it'll be set this time round

I think they have them for all the DA2 companions, exactly like that. Off the top of my head, there's at least one for Anders, Sebastian, Fenris, Varric...  I wasn't following the DA2 development, but I wouldn't be surprised if these were released as teasers.

For DA3, I'd love to have these again, but I would also like to see them for plot points instead of just character backstory. Or, maybe that just means more plot points in my character backstory. LOL

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

You know, if I were on the dev team at this point I would yell, "Eureka!" and say, "why don't we also write companion short stories to flesh out some of the story we can't tell ingame??"

They should totally do that! Although, I know Hepler wrote a short one recently about Anders and his transition between DA:A and DA2. I'd love for them to write a short story for each of the new companions that they'd release weekly/twice weekly a month before DA3 came out in shops (that's presuming they tell us who our companions are before release like they did last time.)

The short stories could go into a bit of detail about each characters past/childhood and what they were doing prior to DA3 that led them to Orlais... or whereever it'll be set this time round

I think they have them for all the DA2 companions, exactly like that. Off the top of my head, there's at least one for Anders, Sebastian, Fenris, Varric...  I wasn't following the DA2 development, but I wouldn't be surprised if these were released as teasers.

For DA3, I'd love to have these again, but I would also like to see them for plot points instead of just character backstory. Or, maybe that just means more plot points in my character backstory. LOL

I'm hoping they'll develop our characters more in-game rather than in books, comics, novels and short stories. One of my concerns in DA3 is that the companions will get neglected in their story/romance arcs, like in DA2 or worse.

[MissRedZelda]

Maybe it'll be like in ME3, where they only introduced about one or two new characters. I think that'll be the right way to go, because a lot of us just wanted to see out old favourite return.

And the Human Noble was the most used background? I guess I can see why (considering the soldier is the most used class in ME). I must be one of the very few who didn't like it. I actually thought it was the most boring out of the lot. My favourite is actually a tie between the Circle Mage and the City Elf, closely followed by the Dalish. Underdog stories are the best :-D

[LolaLei]

MissRedZelda wrote...

Maybe it'll be like in ME3, where they only introduced about one or two new characters. I think that'll be the right way to go, because a lot of us just wanted to see out old favourite return.

And the Human Noble was the most used background? I guess I can see why (considering the soldier is the most used class in ME). I must be one of the very few who didn't like it. I actually thought it was the most boring out of the lot. My favourite is actually a tie between the Circle Mage and the City Elf, closely followed by the Dalish. Underdog stories are the best :-D

I prefer the underdog stories too! Gives me a greater sense of accomplishment knowing we've helped them become somebody.

I'm not sure I'd want any of the old romanceable companions to come back, too many variables and too much fan rage if they do it wrong. I wouldn't mind some of the non-romanceables to come back into our group, like Shale, Varric, Oghren etc.

[berelinde]

There are two problems with reintroducing old characters. One is that four of the companions were love interests and having them reappear minus Hawke would unleash a fury. Another is that the fate of a lot of the cast was changeable. Considering how many people gleefully turned Jowan in, is there a chance he would reappear? Actually, that isn't the best example. The Ferelden Circle wasn't Kirkwall or the White Spire. They didn't tranquil Harrowed mages, they consigned them to Aeonar. There's a chance he could have been busted out... with whatever trauma 10 years in Aeonar would have caused. Maybe Bethany (or Carver) would be a better example. Maker knows that I would like few things better for Carver to return, but even if he survived, he could be a Warden or a templar, depending on the PC's choices. Considering the issues they have with import flags, I'm not sure we can trust them to get it right. Or, maybe they'll allow the player to run something akin to the Gibbed's save game generator and decide the fate of existing characters via a chargen dialogue window.

There are characters who *always* survived DA:O and DA2, however. Cullen is one of them. He also has a large fanbase. This thread doesn't have the participation that some of the old "We love NPC!" threads did, but I'm betting that it has many, many lurkers. BioWare knows it, too. Other examples include Alain, Charade, and Cassandra, of course.

And there are characters that have not yet been in the game but who have been established in the gameworld via books and comics: Regalyan (please, BioWare?), Rhys (although he's over 40 by this point), Evangeline, and Adrian.

[MissRedZelda]

I suppose so. I just really don't like it when they introduce lots of new characters, when there are some that were favourites and already known to the player. I wouldn't mind seeing Merrill again, though this time, she's more mature and aware of the consequences of her powers, and possibly trying to atone for them (romance or not). And maybe Isabela, who is slowly becoming a better and more honest person. Slowly.

The whole LI thing shouldn't be too much of a problem. It didn't really affect the characters in ME series. They just became friends, and nothing more. And even characters who were kiled off in the games (like Wrex and Kaiden/Ashley in ME1, and any of the chaarcters that died during the Suicide Mission in ME2), Bioware found ways to incorporate that in the sequel installments.

But Varric needs to come back. That's a must. Same with Cullen.

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 25 juin 2012 - 12:38 .

[LolaLei]

MissRedZelda wrote...

I suppose so. I just really don't like it when they introduce lots of new characters, when there are some that were favourites and already known to the player. I wouldn't mind seeing Merrill again, though this time, she's more mature and aware of the consequences of her powers, and possibly trying to atone for them (romance or not). And maybe Isabela, who is slowly becoming a better and more honest person. Slowly.

The whole LI thing shouldn't be too much of a problem. It didn't really affect the characters in ME series. They just became friends, and nothing more. And even characters who were kiled off in the games (like Wrex and Kaiden/Ashley in ME1, and any of the chaarcters that died during the Suicide Mission in ME2), Bioware found ways to incorporate that in the sequel installments.

But Varric needs to come back. That's a must. Same with Cullen.

The difference with Mass Effect is that it's Shepard throughout 3 games, with DA games it's a different protagonist for each game so it wouldn't have quite the same effect. Plus, fans would complain if they couldn't romance Alistair in DA3 and fans would complain if he was romanceable but is supposed to be completely in love with your Warden (if you romanced him), so either way Bioware can't win... hell, look at the uproar Lelianna caused by turning up alive (if you killed her) or suggesting that she doesn't know where the Warden is (people presumed that they had broken up.) Too many variables, too much fan fall out if they **** it up. I have no problems with cameos (providing the romance flags don't glitch and they aren't hit with the ugly stick) but even that is risky business.

Ideally I'd like an all new team, consisting of one or two past NPC's (like Cullen) and brand new characters, with perhaps one past companion (that was non-romanceable in the past games) if it's in keeping with the story.

Modifié par LolaLei, 25 juin 2012 - 12:51 .