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The Official Knight-Captain Cullen Discussion thread 2.0.


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#5301
berelinde

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Varric is a whole other kettle of fish. Everybody knows how well-loved he was. My concern there would be that he would feel like a cheap knock-off of himself. His jokes might not seem as fresh, etc. Of course, just thinking about his reaction to finding himself in the midst of *more* Thedas-shattering changes makes me smile. I could see him raising his lantern-jawed face to the heavens and saying "What? Haven't you guys got anything better to do? Bianca and I were busy!"

And we all know that Cullen's reappearance would be beyond awesome.

But there's something good to be said for introducing new characters, too. BioWare is not out of ideas. It would be a shame if they filled up the cast with less-beloved characters (one person's favorites are another's pariahs) and deprived us of the chance to fall in love with someone we've just met.

And then there was that moment of dread when I heard that Oghren was coming back for Awakening. "Oghren? A fan favorite? According to who?" He is, of course. Lots of people love him, and their money is just as good as mine, but when Awakening came out, I was kind of disappointed. Of course, that was before I put him in a party with Sigrun and found out how funny they were together.

Modifié par berelinde, 25 juin 2012 - 12:54 .


#5302
LolaLei

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Out of interest, I'm wondering:

What are everyones thoughts on the likelyhood of Cullen coming back as a companion/LI in DA3? A lot of people outside of our little fan thread seem to think he's a sure thing, that there's a 99% chance that he'll be back as one because he's a fan favorite etc. So, what do you guys think? Are you 100% sure he will? Do you feel that it's unlikely? Are you 50/50? Tell me your thoughts and your reasons why.

#5303
berelinde

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^^ You summed it up already. I would like him to be a romanceable companion. I've had a soft spot for him since the mage Origin. But for every person like me who loves him, there's somebody who thinks he's a threat to their masculinity or whatever.

I think he's a character with a lot of potential. I could see his inclusion as a fully developed companion and love interest being hugely successful. Whether the writers agree remains to be seen.

#5304
MissRedZelda

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Well, like I said quite a while ago, it was fan demand that got Garrus and Tali as LI in ME2. Perhaps the same could apply to Cullen. Provided he's in right frame of mind (and not so PTSD by that time). But yeah, I REALLY want him as a companion in the third game. He has so much potential.

Other than that, I can't say.

And as for my previous posts, I suppose so. I still trust the writers to keep the characters in check. I think you're worrying too much with Varric, Berelinde. He's too awesome to go out of fashion. I would prefer they brought in old NPCs and non-romanced characters rather than new ones. The third game is going to be about the Mage/Templar war; hardly the right time to introduce new characters and explore their back stories. IMHO.

I'm just cynical, like that ;-)

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 25 juin 2012 - 01:08 .


#5305
LolaLei

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See my thoughts on whether the DA team will let us "keep him" as a companion/LI changes daily. Sometimes I feel like they'd be mad not to but other times I feel like it's unlikely, what with the possibility of a Seeker companion like Cassandra or whatever.

However, I think the fact that he is both universally adored and hated is a good thing because it means that his character has had the desired effect. I vaguely recall DG once saying that a character/companion who can stir up mixed emotions to a large group of people (be it love or hate) is a well written one. Any attention is good, even if it's controversial when it comes to Bioware's characters... and if a lowly NPC such as Cullen can attract that much hype (be it good or bad) then hopefully the DA team will realise that they are onto a winner.

As you said, there is so much potential with Cullen, and I feel that they could probably make DA3 a roaring success just by using him as the male romance thats heavily tied into the main plot, and since this next game is going to heavily feature the Mage/Templar war it would make sense to make him it. Think about it, Cullen finally getting his moment to shine, a fantastic romance arc tied into the main plot, plenty of drama and then him risking his life for the "greater good" giving you the option to either save his life, or let him die if you hate his guts. It's win-win for everyone, and I truly think that he could win over a lot of "haters" just by having us get to know him properly in DA3.

Modifié par LolaLei, 25 juin 2012 - 01:31 .


#5306
LolaLei

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MissRedZelda wrote...

Well, like I said quite a while ago, it was fan demand that got Garrus and Tali as LI in ME2. Perhaps the same could apply to Cullen. Provided he's in right frame of mind (and not so PTSD by that time). But yeah, I REALLY want him as a companion in the third game. He has so much potential.

Other than that, I can't say.

And as for my previous posts, I suppose so. I still trust the writers to keep the characters in check. I think you're worrying too much with Varric, Berelinde. He's too awesome to go out of fashion. I would prefer they brought in old NPCs and non-romanced characters rather than new ones. The third game is going to be about the Mage/Templar war; hardly the right time to introduce new characters and explore their back stories. IMHO.

I'm just cynical, like that ;-)


That's true, however I think Bioware in general are really pissed off with their fans at the moment. Especially after this whole ME3 ending controversy forcing them to make the EC dlc to "clarify" things. Plus, DG seems really pissed off with the fans bashing DA2 all the time. I could see them purposely ignoring fan requests like Cullen as a middle finger to us all LOL. Or worse, do something horrible to him like kill him off, or have him marry someone that isn't our protagonist.

#5307
berelinde

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 As long as Galyan is the other LI, sure! I haven't given up on that love polygon yet... :wub:

#5308
MissRedZelda

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LolaLei wrote...

See my thoughts on whether the DA team will let us "keep him" as a companion/LI changes daily. Sometimes I feel like they'd be mad not to but other times I feel like it's unlikely, what with the possibility of a Seeker companion like Cassandra or whatever.

However, I think the fact that he is both universally adored and hated is a good thing because it means the his character has had the desired effect. I vaguely recall DG once saying that a character/companion who can stir up mixed emotions to a large group of people (be it love or hate) is a well written one. Any attention is good, even if it's controversial when it comes to Bioware's characters... and if a lowly NPC such as Cullen can attract that much hype (be it good or bad) then hopefully the DA team will realise that they are onto a winner.

As you said, there is so much potential with Cullen, and I feel that they could probably make DA3 a roaring success just by using him as the male romance thats heavily tied into the main plot, and since this next game is going to heavily feature the Mage/Templar war it would make sense to make him it. Think about it, Cullen finally getting his moment to shine, a fantastic romance arc tied into the main plot, plenty of drama and then him risking his life for the "greater good" giving you the option to either save his life, or let him die if you hate his guts. It's win-win for everyone, and I truly think that he could win over a lot of "haters" just by having us get to know him properly in DA3.


That, would be awesome! I just really hope Bioware doesn't pull a ME3 on us. As in, making the game 99% full of awesome, heart pounding action and suspense. Then at the very end, pulling the rug out from beneath us, then beating us to near with it.
You know what would be even more awesome? If the Warden (imported from the first game) and Hawke (again, imported) make a final appearance in the grand finale to help the DA3 protagonist take down the big bad. Maybe they'll join the group, or they'll command their own squad (their team from Origins and 2, or not). And, the Warden and Hawke's way of speaking would be determined by the dialogue options they chose in their respective games.
Just me theorising here . . . :whistle:

#5309
MissRedZelda

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LolaLei wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

Well, like I said quite a while ago, it was fan demand that got Garrus and Tali as LI in ME2. Perhaps the same could apply to Cullen. Provided he's in right frame of mind (and not so PTSD by that time). But yeah, I REALLY want him as a companion in the third game. He has so much potential.

Other than that, I can't say.

And as for my previous posts, I suppose so. I still trust the writers to keep the characters in check. I think you're worrying too much with Varric, Berelinde. He's too awesome to go out of fashion. I would prefer they brought in old NPCs and non-romanced characters rather than new ones. The third game is going to be about the Mage/Templar war; hardly the right time to introduce new characters and explore their back stories. IMHO.

I'm just cynical, like that ;-)


That's true, however I think Bioware in general are really pissed off with their fans at the moment. Especially after this whole ME3 ending controversy forcing them to make the EC dlc to "clarify" things. Plus, DG seems really pissed off with the fans bashing DA2 all the time. I could see them purposely ignoring fan requests like Cullen as a middle finger to us all LOL. Or worse, do something horrible to him like kill him off, or have him marry someone that isn't our protagonist.


It wasn't our fault that the ME3 ending was a botched mess of plotholes, questions, and multi-coloured explosions.

And it baffles me how they can't see how lazy and unfinished DA2 seems at time.

#5310
LolaLei

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berelinde wrote...

 As long as Galyan is the other LI, sure! I haven't given up on that love polygon yet... :wub:


I think it's a shame that all the LI's aren't heavily tied into the plot in some way. I've noticed they always seem to have one male and one female tied into the main storyline.

In DA:O it was Alistair as your fellow Warden and Morrigan with her dark ritual, in DA2 it was Anders with his Templar hating and Chantry blowing up-ness and Isabela with her Qunari book. In DA3 it could be Cullen with his ties to the outbreak of the rebellion after killing Meredith/living through both previous games/etc and someone else... probably female since they like to keep things equal.

#5311
LolaLei

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MissRedZelda wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

See my thoughts on whether the DA team will let us "keep him" as a companion/LI changes daily. Sometimes I feel like they'd be mad not to but other times I feel like it's unlikely, what with the possibility of a Seeker companion like Cassandra or whatever.

However, I think the fact that he is both universally adored and hated is a good thing because it means the his character has had the desired effect. I vaguely recall DG once saying that a character/companion who can stir up mixed emotions to a large group of people (be it love or hate) is a well written one. Any attention is good, even if it's controversial when it comes to Bioware's characters... and if a lowly NPC such as Cullen can attract that much hype (be it good or bad) then hopefully the DA team will realise that they are onto a winner.

As you said, there is so much potential with Cullen, and I feel that they could probably make DA3 a roaring success just by using him as the male romance thats heavily tied into the main plot, and since this next game is going to heavily feature the Mage/Templar war it would make sense to make him it. Think about it, Cullen finally getting his moment to shine, a fantastic romance arc tied into the main plot, plenty of drama and then him risking his life for the "greater good" giving you the option to either save his life, or let him die if you hate his guts. It's win-win for everyone, and I truly think that he could win over a lot of "haters" just by having us get to know him properly in DA3.


That, would be awesome! I just really hope Bioware doesn't pull a ME3 on us. As in, making the game 99% full of awesome, heart pounding action and suspense. Then at the very end, pulling the rug out from beneath us, then beating us to near with it.
You know what would be even more awesome? If the Warden (imported from the first game) and Hawke (again, imported) make a final appearance in the grand finale to help the DA3 protagonist take down the big bad. Maybe they'll join the group, or they'll command their own squad (their team from Origins and 2, or not). And, the Warden and Hawke's way of speaking would be determined by the dialogue options they chose in their respective games.
Just me theorising here . . . :whistle:


I have a theory that for the very last Dragon Age game they'll reintroduce all our past protagonists and surviving ex companions for the "final battle", that would be pretty ****ing epic if they did that. What a way to end a series with a bang! .... So long as we don't have to sacrifice any of them.

#5312
LolaLei

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MissRedZelda wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

Well, like I said quite a while ago, it was fan demand that got Garrus and Tali as LI in ME2. Perhaps the same could apply to Cullen. Provided he's in right frame of mind (and not so PTSD by that time). But yeah, I REALLY want him as a companion in the third game. He has so much potential.

Other than that, I can't say.

And as for my previous posts, I suppose so. I still trust the writers to keep the characters in check. I think you're worrying too much with Varric, Berelinde. He's too awesome to go out of fashion. I would prefer they brought in old NPCs and non-romanced characters rather than new ones. The third game is going to be about the Mage/Templar war; hardly the right time to introduce new characters and explore their back stories. IMHO.

I'm just cynical, like that ;-)


That's true, however I think Bioware in general are really pissed off with their fans at the moment. Especially after this whole ME3 ending controversy forcing them to make the EC dlc to "clarify" things. Plus, DG seems really pissed off with the fans bashing DA2 all the time. I could see them purposely ignoring fan requests like Cullen as a middle finger to us all LOL. Or worse, do something horrible to him like kill him off, or have him marry someone that isn't our protagonist.


It wasn't our fault that the ME3 ending was a botched mess of plotholes, questions, and multi-coloured explosions.

And it baffles me how they can't see how lazy and unfinished DA2 seems at time.


True, but they'll never admit that. It's their brain child, their little baby that they want to protect... even if it is a pile of crap. They're too proud at the moment to admit that the ME3 endings are bollocks and DA2 was seriously lack in many aspects of the game.

#5313
berelinde

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It would be nice if *all* of the LIs were plot-relevant this time around, but we'll see. I think folks are aware of fan preference for it.

As for BioWare being ticked off over the reactions of ME3 and DA2, maybe they are, but you don't expect them to not support their decisions, do you? For better or worse, once something is written, it is written. You can learn from it and move on, but that's about it. The true test of BioWare's reaction to fan feedback will come in the next game.

Edit: And lack of plot-relevance doesn't have to be a bad thing. Lots of people like Fenris, and he was completely optional. One might argue that Isabela was, too. You wouldn't get the alternate resolution to the Qunari thing, but you didn't have to recruit her. It was Merrill you couldn't leave on Sundermount.

Modifié par berelinde, 25 juin 2012 - 01:34 .


#5314
MissRedZelda

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Where did you get the impression that DG was pissed at fans, out of curiosity?

Though, I can't see why they would do all that. Look at what has happened since the ME3 controversy. If anything, pissing off fans even more would seriously effect their revenue.

#5315
vieralynn

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R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...


Omg, poor kid! Why was he even locked up to die down there in the first place?

THIS is the question, in a nutshell. Berelinde's example is right on the money. It was references like that made my skin crawl. The fact that it seemed part of new mage processing was to first throw you in a dungeon. Not a cell. But a full on, creepy crawly dungeon. The despair with which they described the mages down there was... disconcerting. And, it all seemed to be de rigueur.

So, thanks berelinde, that's a good example to add to my pile. ;)

And, you know, Lola, you should probably just go ahead and read Asunder. LORE GALORE in that one. And, yes, I know that rhymes. :P I can "loan" you my kindle version if you like (I think I could figure out how to do that on amazon... dunno if it works international, tho.)


I didn't get the impression that it was the first thing done to all mages brought in for processing but the first thing done to Highly Problematic mages, such as that little girl who vindictively burned down her family's farm. 

Of course, it could have been all mages but they didn't say and none of the other mages mentioned that their first "welcome" to the tower was a cell in the dungeons.  

#5316
LolaLei

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berelinde wrote...

It would be nice if *all* of the LIs were plot-relevant this time around, but we'll see. I think folks are aware of fan preference for it.

As for BioWare being ticked off over the reactions of ME3 and DA2, maybe they are, but you don't expect them to not support their decisions, do you? For better or worse, once something is written, it is written. You can learn from it and move on, but that's about it. The true test of BioWare's reaction to fan feedback will come in the next game.

Edit: And lack of plot-relevance doesn't have to be a bad thing. Lots of people like Fenris, and he was completely optional. One might argue that Isabela was, too. You wouldn't get the alternate resolution to the Qunari thing, but you didn't have to recruit her. It was Merrill you couldn't leave on Sundermount.


I think less attention was put on the plot heavy companions in DA2. In DA:O Alistair took centre stage ALOT (not that I'm complaining <3) but DG said that he felt that he went a little over board with Ali and that it took the focus away from our Warden too much. I personally didn't think so at all and would have loved all the companions to have more attention focused on them. But DG thought it was a problem, which probably explains why they done the complete opposite with the DA2 companions, which was a shame.

I'm actually quite worried about how DA3 will turn out. Sounds daft but I'd hate for Cullen's character and personality to not get the time and attention he deserves... I feel like he deserves his moment to redeem himself and find happiness, but I don't want him as a companion/LI if DA3 turns out to be as rushed and shallow as DA2. If that makes sense?

#5317
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

Out of interest, I'm wondering:

What are everyones thoughts on the likelyhood of Cullen coming back as a companion/LI in DA3? A lot of people outside of our little fan thread seem to think he's a sure thing, that there's a 99% chance that he'll be back as one because he's a fan favorite etc. So, what do you guys think? Are you 100% sure he will? Do you feel that it's unlikely? Are you 50/50? Tell me your thoughts and your reasons why.


Well, you've all heard me say it before, no matter how much I'd 100% love for him to come back as a companion, I think it's far from a sure thing. Honestly, I don't think anyone can make an even remotely accurate guess on it right now without knowing anything at all about the story. I think if he fits, he fits, and if not, I think there are enough pros and cons for him as both a fan favorite and fan pariah that fan sentiment frankly sort of cancels itself out. I think the one exception to this is that he seems to be a favorite in the writers' pit, so that might be a slight positive.

As far as his return as an NPC, I would expect at least a cameo given his status as one of the last men standing from the last game. But, again, far from a sure thing.

So, I'm not getting my hopes up at all.

@Berelinde, I would also love Galyan to show up. But I just thought of something... are you at all worried that they'd ruin his model for the new game?? I mean, Cass was pretty close to her DA2 incarnation, but then... there's Alistair.

#5318
LolaLei

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MissRedZelda wrote...

Where did you get the impression that DG was pissed at fans, out of curiosity?

Though, I can't see why they would do all that. Look at what has happened since the ME3 controversy. If anything, pissing off fans even more would seriously effect their revenue.


When he's posted in some of the threads in the DA2 forum he's come across as really hostile and snarky to people, even if they're being polite when asking him a question etc. Also, he's made a few cutting remarks about the forum on his Twitter between him and some of the other DA devs. I don't blame him for being a bit defensive but I feel like he's not helping himself with his cutting remarks.

#5319
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Out of interest, I'm wondering:

What are everyones thoughts on the likelyhood of Cullen coming back as a companion/LI in DA3? A lot of people outside of our little fan thread seem to think he's a sure thing, that there's a 99% chance that he'll be back as one because he's a fan favorite etc. So, what do you guys think? Are you 100% sure he will? Do you feel that it's unlikely? Are you 50/50? Tell me your thoughts and your reasons why.


Well, you've all heard me say it before, no matter how much I'd 100% love for him to come back as a companion, I think it's far from a sure thing. Honestly, I don't think anyone can make an even remotely accurate guess on it right now without knowing anything at all about the story. I think if he fits, he fits, and if not, I think there are enough pros and cons for him as both a fan favorite and fan pariah that fan sentiment frankly sort of cancels itself out. I think the one exception to this is that he seems to be a favorite in the writers' pit, so that might be a slight positive.

As far as his return as an NPC, I would expect at least a cameo given his status as one of the last men standing from the last game. But, again, far from a sure thing.

So, I'm not getting my hopes up at all.

@Berelinde, I would also love Galyan to show up. But I just thought of something... are you at all worried that they'd ruin his model for the new game?? I mean, Cass was pretty close to her DA2 incarnation, but then... there's Alistair.


Poor old Ali.

I was actually wondering this the other day. Would he look anything like his DotS character model? Will he even have the same voice? What if they pull an Anders stunt and turn him into a miserable git?

#5320
LolaLei

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Here's another question:

If they confirm that Cullen is indeed a companion/LI in DA3, what things are you worried about that they could potentially do to him? For example, making him ugly, killing him off, giving him a new voice actor etc. What sort of things would you not want to see from him romance/storyline/backstory wise? For example, making him a womaniser.

#5321
MissRedZelda

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LolaLei wrote...

berelinde wrote...

It would be nice if *all* of the LIs were plot-relevant this time around, but we'll see. I think folks are aware of fan preference for it.

As for BioWare being ticked off over the reactions of ME3 and DA2, maybe they are, but you don't expect them to not support their decisions, do you? For better or worse, once something is written, it is written. You can learn from it and move on, but that's about it. The true test of BioWare's reaction to fan feedback will come in the next game.

Edit: And lack of plot-relevance doesn't have to be a bad thing. Lots of people like Fenris, and he was completely optional. One might argue that Isabela was, too. You wouldn't get the alternate resolution to the Qunari thing, but you didn't have to recruit her. It was Merrill you couldn't leave on Sundermount.


I think less attention was put on the plot heavy companions in DA2. In DA:O Alistair took centre stage ALOT (not that I'm complaining <3) but DG said that he felt that he went a little over board with Ali and that it took the focus away from our Warden too much. I personally didn't think so at all and would have loved all the companions to have more attention focused on them. But DG thought it was a problem, which probably explains why they done the complete opposite with the DA2 companions, which was a shame.

I'm actually quite worried about how DA3 will turn out. Sounds daft but I'd hate for Cullen's character and personality to not get the time and attention he deserves... I feel like he deserves his moment to redeem himself and find happiness, but I don't want him as a companion/LI if DA3 turns out to be as rushed and shallow as DA2. If that makes sense?


I think a good example of companions being relevent, but not taking away from the main PC is in the ME series (Jeepus, I'm brining that series up a lot today!). Your companions all had their own baggage and backstories that you had to help them sort out. That helped you get to know them, and your actions influenced how they would act through the rest of the game. It also helped that the missions were usually nice and long with pleanty of action, and not just one conversation and cutscene. It also helped that they all had very distict personalities as well. Everyone had their time in the spotlight, and all their talents were utilised in the end. Through that, we became very attached to the characters, and when the time camwe for some of them to die or sacrifise themsleves, it was heartbreaking (spoilers; RIP Mordin. I hope you'e running tests on all the seashells you can find in the sky :crying:)

As for Alistair taking the spotlight away from our Warden, I agree with you, Staarbux. I didn't think that was so, either. IN fact, I felt that the spotlight was on them equally. Alistair always asked for your opinion on the matters of his Kingship, so it was very much the two of them sharing the story. And through our actions, he is either King or not (in my case, not). I felt it was a very equal and balanced partnership ^_^

EDIT: Holy crap! I was lisening to my ipod while typing this, and "Black Blade" from TSFH (which was used in the Take Back Earth ME3 trailer) started playing. Immediately, I started imagining a full CG trailer with all my personal canon DA protagonists (Human Female Mage, F!Hawke, and how I imagine my DA3 Mage protagonist), and their LIs, all fighting enemies and being badass and stuff. 

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 25 juin 2012 - 02:02 .


#5322
R2s Muse

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vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...


Omg, poor kid! Why was he even locked up to die down there in the first place?

THIS is the question, in a nutshell. Berelinde's example is right on the money. It was references like that made my skin crawl. The fact that it seemed part of new mage processing was to first throw you in a dungeon. Not a cell. But a full on, creepy crawly dungeon. The despair with which they described the mages down there was... disconcerting. And, it all seemed to be de rigueur.

So, thanks berelinde, that's a good example to add to my pile. ;)

And, you know, Lola, you should probably just go ahead and read Asunder. LORE GALORE in that one. And, yes, I know that rhymes. :P I can "loan" you my kindle version if you like (I think I could figure out how to do that on amazon... dunno if it works international, tho.)


I didn't get the impression that it was the first thing done to all mages brought in for processing but the first thing done to Highly Problematic mages, such as that little girl who vindictively burned down her family's farm. 

Of course, it could have been all mages but they didn't say and none of the other mages mentioned that their first "welcome" to the tower was a cell in the dungeons.  

Hmm, interesting. The feeling I came away with was that this was more typical than atypical, but it's been a few months since I've read it. I don't think I recall hearing from any of the "well adjusted" mages about their transition to the tower, one way or another, but it seemed that everyone they did talk about coming in was treated this way. For example, I didn't think the firestarter girl admitted any of her premeditation to the templars; I thought she was just admitting that to Cole as some kind of absolution. So I didn't think the templars would have any notion of whether she deserved such treatment a priori. I wouldn't be surprised if half the mages they find are responsible for some calamity or another like burning down barns, intentional or otherwise, as their powers manifest. I guess I got the impression that the templars were fond of  'shoot first, ask question later.' 

Anyhoo, guess I'll have to go back and look at that.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 25 juin 2012 - 02:03 .


#5323
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

Here's another question:

If they confirm that Cullen is indeed a companion/LI in DA3, what things are you worried about that they could potentially do to him? For example, making him ugly, killing him off, giving him a new voice actor etc.


Yes.:blink:

#5324
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Here's another question:

If they confirm that Cullen is indeed a companion/LI in DA3, what things are you worried about that they could potentially do to him? For example, making him ugly, killing him off, giving him a new voice actor etc.


Yes.:blink:


LOL, anything else?

#5325
vieralynn

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R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, I really disliked how there was only maybe 3 sympathetic Templar characters in DA2, 2 of which you only see briefly. I know they portrayed almost every mage in Kirkwall as mad or a blood Mage, but they always made a point of showing us that it was just retaliationdue to the Templars and Meredith treating them badly. DG said that neither the Mages or the Templars are supposed to be ultimately "bad" or "good" but I think they could have done a better job at showing us the plight that the Templars have to deal with on a day to day basis. It wouldn't have taken much for them to give us a few flash backs of Cullen's torture in Ferelden or had him go into a bit more detail about it, maybe even shown us a Templar suffering from severe lyrium withdrawl symptoms, or a Templar caught having a relationship with one of the Gallows Mages, to which Meredith reacts by making said Templar strike down his lover as punishment (thus showing us the Knight Commanders gradual descent into madness.)

You know, DG has an interesting comment about this ... somewhere. Probably the Thedas UK interview? He talks about how they made certain choices because western culture always tends to side with the underdog. So, it seems a really hard balance to strike, keeping both sides equally good/bad, while recognizing that your target audience will naturally side with one of them no matter what. Seems like you'd want to weight the other side then, but then how much do you weight it?  Tough indeed. 

You know, if I were on the dev team at this point I would yell, "Eureka!" and say, "why don't we also write companion short stories to flesh out some of the story we can't tell ingame??"


This is a place where I need to respectfully disagree with DG's comment and ask him to think a little deeper and broader. (which, I suspect, he already has ^^)

People around the world tend to side with the underdog. 

The problem -- and it is a huge problem -- is that the story fails to show how dangerous mages are such that the player feels real fear. 

The codex talks about abominations as a rare, cataclysmic event yet our Hawkes and Wardens see many abominations and take them down with ease. Likewise, the act of freeing someone from demon possession is an extremely rare event (noted in the codex and, if I remember correctly, in Asunder) yet our Warden, Hawke, and Rhys+Wynne all have opportunities to successfully perform this supposedly herculean act. Many common people supposedly fear mages, yet the only strong taste of it we feel first hand is during that very tense scene in a pub in Asunder. Many parents of mage children willing wish to get rid of these "sinful creatures," yet we see Isolde do everything she can to keep Conner (even though a disaster occurs). Finally, if we play a mage Warden or mage Hawke, we never feel any sense of fear that our own powers and emotions might betray us. 

So, when DG talks about players not seeing mages as potentially dangerous despite the fact that there is ample evidence in the games and books that they are, the problem is that the player is never made to feel the danger or the associated fear. Even the (supposed) horrors of blood magic are glossed over.

Cullen's strongly worded concerns in Act 1 of DA2 come off as the rantings of a bigot, Jowan's and Merrill's blood magic can be easily overlooked, and the entire reason why mage children and their uncontrolled emotions/magic can cause problems is completely glossed over. 

Don't get me wrong: I think the concept of magic in Thedas is completely brilliant. I love the fact that magic, the fade, and fade spirits and demons are directly to different emotional states and human experiences (rage, justice, etc.), but the concept isn't explored enough in the games or the books. It is far too easy to see the templars as entirely unnecessary (even though Wynne strongly disagrees!) and to see Anders' position on mage freedom as the *only* solution to the problem or a bloody revolution as the only possible response (it isn't but, from a writerly perspective, Anders needs to play the role he plays in order to push plot points forward and set up the war, thus he needs to do something that shatters trust between templars, mages, and the chantry. successful revolutionary tactics for ending oppression work to build trust, not shatter it, but this leads me into a huge academic meta that I've already posted to tumblr some time ago…).

So, my point is that Dragon Age does something really interesting and really risky: it shows us a very complex world through the eyes of characters who represent atypical viewpoints. We never get to directly feel the fears that other people have unless we work hard to empathize with them and carefully read all of the codices. 

More short stories would help but I think the PCs need to directly experience the danger and fear.

Modifié par vieralynn, 25 juin 2012 - 02:07 .