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[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

Greg Ellis stays. End of story.

I think I may have to agree with this as well. I have a thing for a guy's voice. Fenris and Alistair did it for me too.

A good script helped as well. In Alistair's case espcially.

Ohg, and Steve Valentine was in a Disney live action series for a couple of years. "I'm In the Band", is was called. I've watched a few episodes, and it's . . . kiddish, honestly. But Mr. Valentine and his voice makes it for me 

I've said this before but it still makes me laugh... I have a 6 yr old and he had Disney on TV when this show first came on. I'm in the kitchen making dinner and hear Alistair's voice and was like "WTF?". It's a goofy show but I don't mind him watching it just for Alistair's voice. (swoon)

Steve Valentine is awesome, I have a real thing for him. He's your typical great British eccentric and he seems like a genuinely nice guy and is super sweet to his fans... unlike some I could mention *ahem.*

[simplykaotic222]

berelinde wrote...

adurnal wrote...

Hello there. Is this private or can anybody chime in?

Welcome!

Still reading up on threads. A lot got posted while I was doing the washing up. Household chores never do seem to go away.

No sadly they never do. 

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...
Hmm, really good point. That scene in the inn in Asunder was almost... jarring, since it was so contrary to how people normally treat you in the game when you're a mage. The hate and the scapegoating was really vicious. And yet, the "bad" mages you typically run into are all practically mustache twirling black hats, not really giving a true sense of the ubiquitous danger of magic. Even the cautionary tale of Tevinter is useless since we haven't really seen that first hand... minus a small window into one particular mage-slave relationship.

That pub scene in Asunder was the only time I ever felt truly frightened as a mage sympathizer and I thought it was one of the best written scenes in the book. I was worried about everyone: not just the three mages but Evangeline too. I worried that the angry mob was going to come after them in the middle of the night and that worry never left me throughout the rest of the book. "Chantryfolk" aren't looked at too kindly in those parts… Scary.

LOL I was, too. With respect to Evangeline, I thought it was also nice to see the templars defending mages from the people for once. Giving a little more evidence for their necessity.

Until we go visit Tevinter and see the place first hand, I feel like Tevinter is used as a strawman argument for why unchecked mages and blood magic are dangerous. Tevinter during the 9:30s sounds almost like a lawless wild, wild west, but that doesn't make sense given how old their civilization is. 

Agree. It's honestly hard fo me to imagine what it's really like there. Instead of the wild west, I keep imagining it as some completely decadent and morally decrepit society, like some kind of Roman bacchanalia.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 25 juin 2012 - 02:42 .

[meanieweenie]

vieralynn wrote...

That pub scene in Asunder was the only time I ever felt truly frightened as a mage sympathizer and I thought it was one of the best written scenes in the book. I was worried about everyone: not just the three mages but Evangeline too. I worried that the angry mob was going to come after them in the middle of the night and that worry never left me throughout the rest of the book. "Chantryfolk" aren't looked at too kindly in those parts… Scary.
Until we go visit Tevinter and see the place first hand, I feel like Tevinter is used as a strawman argument for why unchecked mages and blood magic are dangerous. Tevinter during the 9:30s sounds almost like a lawless wild, wild west, but that doesn't make sense given how old their civilization is. 

Agreed. I also felt the scene where Rhys was gargling raw sewage in the end fight was well written - given the fact that it still grosses me out to this day. I really enjoyed Asunder because it opened up SO many possibilities.

Even with regards to Cullen's story (if to stay on topic on this thread).... I can think of multiple ways his story could go. Does he remain loyal to the Templar order or could he be recruited by the Seekers? Does he finally go balls out and side with the mages? Is he fed up with all of them and find his own way? I'm so very anxious for the next chapter.

[LolaLei]

I'm not gonna lie, I'd be so pissed if they didn't include him in DA3, or only gave him a little cameo.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Here's another question:

If they confirm that Cullen is indeed a companion/LI in DA3, what things are you worried about that they could potentially do to him? For example, making him ugly, killing him off, giving him a new voice actor etc.

Yes.

LOL, anything else?

LOL I'm worried they will:
make him ugly
kill him off before the game
kill him off as some tragic plot point in game
give him a new voice actor
ignore the character evolution during DA2, and reset him at "mages can't be treated like people"
make him lyrium addled (which frankly I have no real interest in seeing first hand... I want Cullen to be Cullen; he
     can have issues, but I don't want his fundamental personality to change and that could be a possibility)
make him unlikeable (once you really get to know him, you find out he's actually just a d!ck)
have him run off with Amell/Surana (sorry 'shippers!)
switch him back to twohander (ok... not really)
lose the skirt (Maker, nooooooo!)

Yeah those are my worries too, along with

Him being married/in a relationship with someone that isn't our protagonist
Him not being interest in our protagonist
Him being like Anders and constantly complaining about the Templar plight
Them killing him off in a novel/short story/comic
Them giving him a crap backstory
Having him get with Cassandra or one of our companions after freaking out and dumping our character *glares at Fenris*
Having him slag off Mages constantly whilst being in a relationship with one
Him being too serious, in terms of always being in a bad mood
Having him go on and on about our female Mage Warden lol


.... Cullen was a two-hander? Why didn't I know this already?

I almost added that one, too. ARGH. 

And, yeah, in DA:O he was a two hander. I think I actually like the templar shield addition a bit better.

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah those are my worries too, along with

Him being married/in a relationship with someone that isn't our protagonist

.... Cullen was a two-hander? Why didn't I know this already?

<GASP!> I hadn't thought of this..... oh sweet baby Jeebus, say it ain't so!

As a side note, I'd like to add that I'm ok with him needing two hands.

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

That pub scene in Asunder was the only time I ever felt truly frightened as a mage sympathizer and I thought it was one of the best written scenes in the book. I was worried about everyone: not just the three mages but Evangeline too. I worried that the angry mob was going to come after them in the middle of the night and that worry never left me throughout the rest of the book. "Chantryfolk" aren't looked at too kindly in those parts… Scary.
Until we go visit Tevinter and see the place first hand, I feel like Tevinter is used as a strawman argument for why unchecked mages and blood magic are dangerous. Tevinter during the 9:30s sounds almost like a lawless wild, wild west, but that doesn't make sense given how old their civilization is. 

Agreed. I also felt the scene where Rhys was gargling raw sewage in the end fight was well written - given the fact that it still grosses me out to this day. I really enjoyed Asunder because it opened up SO many possibilities.

Even with regards to Cullen's story (if to stay on topic on this thread).... I can think of multiple ways his story could go. Does he remain loyal to the Templar order or could he be recruited by the Seekers? Does he finally go balls out and side with the mages? Is he fed up with all of them and find his own way? I'm so very anxious for the next chapter.

Wtf?! Why was he gargling ****? I'm gonna have to read this to fully understand whats going on aren't i!

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...
As a side note, I'd like to add that I'm ok with him needing two hands.

Oh Maker yes!

[MissRedZelda]

Um, we may not have to worry about the Mage hating thing much if you sided with the Mages. He did stand up for Mage Hawke at the end.

I hope his character isn't mutated in DA3 as well. *Glares at Anders*

[R2s Muse]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah those are my worries too, along with

Him being married/in a relationship with someone that isn't our protagonist

.... Cullen was a two-hander? Why didn't I know this already?

<GASP!> I hadn't thought of this..... oh sweet baby Jeebus, say it ain't so!

As a side note, I'd like to add that I'm ok with him needing two hands.

LOL Yeah, I think that's the only real fear... if after this long, he hooks up with someone who isn't our PC... BW will have some 'splaining to do.

and, Bwahahaha ! :lol:

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Here's another question:

If they confirm that Cullen is indeed a companion/LI in DA3, what things are you worried about that they could potentially do to him? For example, making him ugly, killing him off, giving him a new voice actor etc.

Yes.

LOL, anything else?

LOL I'm worried they will:
make him ugly
kill him off before the game
kill him off as some tragic plot point in game
give him a new voice actor
ignore the character evolution during DA2, and reset him at "mages can't be treated like people"
make him lyrium addled (which frankly I have no real interest in seeing first hand... I want Cullen to be Cullen; he
     can have issues, but I don't want his fundamental personality to change and that could be a possibility)
make him unlikeable (once you really get to know him, you find out he's actually just a d!ck)
have him run off with Amell/Surana (sorry 'shippers!)
switch him back to twohander (ok... not really)
lose the skirt (Maker, nooooooo!)

Yeah those are my worries too, along with

Him being married/in a relationship with someone that isn't our protagonist
Him not being interest in our protagonist
Him being like Anders and constantly complaining about the Templar plight
Them killing him off in a novel/short story/comic
Them giving him a crap backstory
Having him get with Cassandra or one of our companions after freaking out and dumping our character *glares at Fenris*
Having him slag off Mages constantly whilst being in a relationship with one
Him being too serious, in terms of always being in a bad mood
Having him go on and on about our female Mage Warden lol


.... Cullen was a two-hander? Why didn't I know this already?

Call me frivolous but losing Greg Ellis and dressing Cullen in something other than a templar skirt are two huge deal breakers for me. 

Adding to the above, I wouldn't want them to:

- Give him too much backstory because I want some of the ambiguity for different headcanons and different playthroughs to remain intact.
- Have him vehemently declare that the Lord Seeker Lambert is the guiding light for all of Thedas. 
- Make him into a DLC-only character (like Sebastian).
- Make him feel a need to discuss his prior sexual experiences (or lack there of) and whether or not his prior crush(es) were a source of shame or were unrequitted -- basically, anything that interferes with the variety of interpretations of Cullen/fem!mage!warden.
- Make him stay silent on what was actually going on inside the Gallows -- he was there, so he should talk about it.

[LolaLei]

So at PAX DG or Mike Laidlaw said that DA3 will feature new as well as some returning favorites for companions. Do you suppose they're talking about old favorite NPC's (like Cullen) or old companions? And if it's old companions do you suppose it'll end up being past romanceable ones.

Y'know, as much as I adore Alistair I certainly wouldn't want him back as companion in DA3. I worry that he might end up as a companion again since he is a big fan favorite... although I'm hoping his varied fates in DA:O would prevent this from happening. I wouldn't mind Shale back though.

[berelinde]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

I didn't get the impression that it was the first thing done to all mages brought in for processing but the first thing done to Highly Problematic mages, such as that little girl who vindictively burned down her family's farm. 

Of course, it could have been all mages but they didn't say and none of the other mages mentioned that their first "welcome" to the tower was a cell in the dungeons.  

Hmm, interesting. The feeling I came away with was that this was more typical than atypical, but it's been a few months since I've read it. I don't think I recall hearing from any of the "well adjusted" mages about their transition to the tower, one way or another, but it seemed that everyone they did talk about coming in was treated this way. For example, I didn't think the firestarter girl admitted any of her premeditation to the templars; I thought she was just admitting that to Cole as some kind of absolution. So I didn't think the templars would have any notion of whether she deserved such treatment a priori. I wouldn't be surprised if half the mages they find are responsible for some calamity or another like burning down barns, intentional or otherwise, as their powers manifest. I guess I got the impression that the templars were fond of  'shoot first, ask question later.' 

Anyhoo, guess I'll have to go back and look at that.

Regarding the firestarter girl, the townspeople didn't think kindly of her and they called her vindictive (or something similar) so that would be their word against the Templars.

Either way, I think the problem is that we just don't know how incoming mages are treated. No doubt many have caused calamities and, as horrible as a trip to the dungeon is, it is understandable why templars would do this as a precaution. Frightened, emotionally explosive mage children are dangerous. In a better world (which Thedas surely isn't!!!), these children wouldn't be frightened, their elders wouldn't call them sinful and tainted, and the risk of calamity would be lower. But, IRL, even the sweetest child can turn into an emotional demon in the middle of the supermarket on a busy saturday afternoon. Imagine if that child could summon fire... <_<

Even though DG makes points like this over and over again here on BSN, I don't think the stories hammer home how extreme the danger can be and how normal people in Thedas see the world around them. Instead, we look in as outsiders and immediately see oppressive religious teachings and a Circle system that is rife with potential for abuse. This isn't to say that we are wrong, but that we are looking at all of this from the comfort and privilege of a very different world. 

All mages may not have been slammed in the dungeon right away, but I too got the feeling that was the norm. As you both say, we just don't know. I have vague recollections of Rhys saying that was his first experience with the dungeons. You would think that mages would *not* talk about it unless it was a singluar experience. If it happened to everybody, there would be no need to bring it up.

As for the villagers describing the girl as vindictive, they would, wouldn't they? It's human nature to vilify that which we feel guilty about. Bullies say their victims are snivelling and petty, and maybe some of them are. It's also possible that the kid had been showing signs before she torched the barn (Why is it always torching the barn? Doesn't anybody get fed up and freeze anybody or turn their hair pink? Is it never any other agricultural outbuilding?), and that the villagers marked her as "different" and ostracized her because of it. And if the templars did hear her described as vindictive, they would believe the word of the villagers over that of a mage-child.

And I'm sure a lot of parents go into denial when faced with the possibility that their children could have magic. Not my kid. They're so well behaved. We'll just hit three more stores and then we'll go home.

R2's Muse wrote...

Agree. It's honestly hard fo me to imagine what it's really like there. Instead of the wild west, I keep imagining it as some completely decadent and morally decrepit society, like some kind of Roman bacchanalia.  

Or it could be much like Denerim, Amaranthine, Kirkwall, or any other place we've visited. When the government is working, people don't notice it much. They go about their lives and try to keep ahead of the bills. It's only when you're at the very top or the very bottom that you notice there's trouble.

The forum ate my formatting.

Modifié par berelinde, 25 juin 2012 - 03:03 .

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

So at PAX DG or Mike Laidlaw said that DA3 will feature new as well as some returning favorites for companions. Do you suppose they're talking about old favorite NPC's (like Cullen) or old companions? And if it's old companions do you suppose it'll end up being past romanceable ones.

Y'know, as much as I adore Alistair I certainly wouldn't want him back as companion in DA3. I worry that he might end up as a companion again since he is a big fan favorite... although I'm hoping his varied fates in DA:O would prevent this from happening. I wouldn't mind Shale back though.

I wondered this as well. My money would be on a Varric return somehow, seeing as how he's gotten so much fan fare. TO be honest, I wouldn't mind it because he was awfully entertaining!

I also had a horrifyling thought.... what would you guys do if they made Cullen a LI but he was impotent or had some kind of condition that rendered him unable to perform his 'manly' duties? Would that make it feel just as unfulfilling as the Seb romance? (Mind you, I've never played the Seb DLC so I'm going on the feedback that I've read, to be fair.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

That pub scene in Asunder was the only time I ever felt truly frightened as a mage sympathizer and I thought it was one of the best written scenes in the book. I was worried about everyone: not just the three mages but Evangeline too. I worried that the angry mob was going to come after them in the middle of the night and that worry never left me throughout the rest of the book. "Chantryfolk" aren't looked at too kindly in those parts… Scary.
Until we go visit Tevinter and see the place first hand, I feel like Tevinter is used as a strawman argument for why unchecked mages and blood magic are dangerous. Tevinter during the 9:30s sounds almost like a lawless wild, wild west, but that doesn't make sense given how old their civilization is. 

Agreed. I also felt the scene where Rhys was gargling raw sewage in the end fight was well written - given the fact that it still grosses me out to this day. I really enjoyed Asunder because it opened up SO many possibilities.

Even with regards to Cullen's story (if to stay on topic on this thread).... I can think of multiple ways his story could go. Does he remain loyal to the Templar order or could he be recruited by the Seekers? Does he finally go balls out and side with the mages? Is he fed up with all of them and find his own way? I'm so very anxious for the next chapter.

Wtf?! Why was he gargling ****? I'm gonna have to read this to fully understand whats going on aren't i!

Rhys was having a very sh*tty day. 

(They were having a boss battle inside the big sewers pipes in the underbelly of the city.)

I have a lot of doubts about Cullen remaining in the Templar order, even if Hawke sides with the templars during The Last Straw. Even with the most templar-supporting Hawke, Cullen is involved in directly defying his Knight-Commander's orders and staging a coup against her. This is something that's being discussed on Tumblr today over here. 

I cannot see someone like Lambert trying to recruit Cullen purely because of Cullen's involvement in the mage uprising, even if Cullen only betrays Meredith when she insists on killing the Champion. I could see someone like Leliana or Cassandra recruiting him because he has first hand knowledge about problems inside the Circle system and he's developed a lot of perspective. I can also see him having no choice but to leave the templars, either because his name is sullied by True Believer members of the Order or because he believes that the direction the templars are going in is not even close to "what being a templar is all about." I can also see him pulling an Evangeline style move and joining a mage outpost. 

No matter what, I hope the writers decide to continue his story in some form...

[R2s Muse]

Wow, the Cullen thread is rockin and rollin tonight!! Too much excitement for this old lady. Off to bed!

I will leave you with some Culleny goodness.

"Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me..."

[meanieweenie]

vieralynn wrote...

I cannot see someone like Lambert trying to recruit Cullen purely because of Cullen's involvement in the mage uprising, even if Cullen only betrays Meredith when she insists on killing the Champion. I could see someone like Leliana or Cassandra recruiting him because he has first hand knowledge about problems inside the Circle system and he's developed a lot of perspective. I can also see him having no choice but to leave the templars, either because his name is sullied by True Believer members of the Order or because he believes that the direction the templars are going in is not even close to "what being a templar is all about." I can also see him pulling an Evangeline style move and joining a mage outpost. 

I figured it would make the most sense to either have him recruited by Leliana or Cassandra or the Divine herself summon him to question him about the events in Kirkwall. Then he would either be a double agent for the Divine or straight up Seeker. Lambert seems to be on his own wagon train to Crazy Town.

With that, I fear I must take R2's lead and sign off for the night. (I originally typed "follow R2 to bed" but it sent the WRONG message! LOL)

Modifié par meanieweenie, 25 juin 2012 - 03:15 .

[vieralynn]

berelinde wrote...

As for the villagers describing the girl as vindictive, they would, wouldn't they? It's human nature to vilify that which we feel guilty about. Bullies say their victims are snivelling and petty, and maybe some of them are. It's also possible that the kid had been showing signs before she torched the barn (Why is it always torching the barn? Doesn't anybody get fed up and freeze anybody or turn their hair pink? Is it never any other agricultural outbuilding?), and that the villagers marked her as "different" and ostracized her because of it. And if the templars did hear her described as vindictive, they would believe the word of the villagers over that of a mage-child.

It is also human nature to vilify that which we fear.  

If the Chantry calls mage children sinful and tainted, if mage children have caused terrifying events, and if people's understanding of the world begins and ends at the boundaries of their rural village, it is far easier to look at these children as potential demons and lock them up somewhere until the templars come (much like little girl Wynne was locked in barn for a few days). 

I've had some first hand experiences living in a few highly disconnected places that are barely part of the developed world, plus I've also lived in modernizing cities within developing nations -- places where people don't have a lot of education and rumors, fears, and "backwards" customs rule the day. This happens because so much of their lives are out of their control and they do have far more to fear than we do.

So, I guess calling the rural Orlesian villagers "bullies" sort of misses the mark with me because bullies are people who throw their weight around and punish the weak. Mage children are only weak in that they are children, but they also have powers that these rural Orlesian villages would react to with fear.

berelinde wrote...

And I'm sure a lot of parents go into denial when faced with the possibility that their children could have magic. Not my kid. They're so well behaved. We'll just hit three more stores and then we'll go home.

That was definitely Isolde...

Although, some of the parents probably feared their children, called them horrible things, and shunned them. Cole's memories in Asunder definitely point in that direction as does Anders' backstory.

Modifié par vieralynn, 25 juin 2012 - 03:22 .

[berelinde]

^^ I wasn't saying that the villagers were bullies. It was more of an example of how labeling something makes it happen.

I would argue that the cure of fear is education and that children are still children. No matter how fearful the villagers are, it still must be hard on the child. Anyway, that's enough said (on my part... I tend to get carried away). This is a thread for Cullen, not mage rights. I'd best save my walls of text for another time.

Modifié par berelinde, 25 juin 2012 - 03:41 .

[LolaLei]

I worry that they've made him a Seeker, but that we'd still end up with Cassandra as a companion, which would mean no Cullen loving since we can't have two Seekers in our party.

That being said, they want their characters to have "iconic looks" so I doubt they'd want him to lose his signature Templar status if he is a companion.

[vieralynn]

berelinde wrote...

^^ I wasn't saying that the villagers were bullies. It was more of an example of how labeling something makes it happen.

I would argue that the cure of fear is education and that children are still children. No matter how fearful the villagers are, it still must be hard on the child. Anyway, that's enough said. This is a thread for Cullen, not mage rights. I'd best save my walls of text for another time.

Oh, I completely agree with you that the solution lies in education, that children are still children, and that unless they are extremely lucky children like Finn from Witch Hunt, most of them will have horrible, emotionally scarring experiences when they are rejected by their parents/elders and hunted down by templars.  

Pulling this back to Cullen, I am very curious to see where his views on mage rights stand after the events of DA2. Surely he understands the potential dangers that a mage can pose although he has had almost a decade of first hand experience watching what happens when Templars back mages into a corner and ratchet up the sense of fear for everyone involved.

It would be *very* interesting to see him reason about his experiences in Ferelden's Circle and at the Gallows, and start sketching out ideas for a more productive Circle environment. I hope the writers go in this direction.

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ I wasn't saying that the villagers were bullies. It was more of an example of how labeling something makes it happen.

I would argue that the cure of fear is education and that children are still children. No matter how fearful the villagers are, it still must be hard on the child. Anyway, that's enough said. This is a thread for Cullen, not mage rights. I'd best save my walls of text for another time.

Oh, I completely agree with you that the solution lies in education, that children are still children, and that unless they are extremely lucky children like Finn from Witch Hunt, most of them will have horrible, emotionally scarring experiences when they are rejected by their parents/elders and hunted down by templars.  

Pulling this back to Cullen, I am very curious to see where his views on mage rights stand after the events of DA2. Surely he understands the potential dangers that a mage can pose although he has had almost a decade of first hand experience watching what happens when Templars back mages into a corner and ratchet up the sense of fear for everyone involved.

It would be *very* interesting to see him reason about his experiences in Ferelden's Circle and at the Gallows, and start sketching out ideas for a more productive Circle environment. I hope the writers go in this direction.

I'd like to think that he's come to the conclusion that possessing power (be in magic or other) isn't what makes someone dangerous, it's the fear in their heart and the hunger for power that truly turns a man. Magic isn't dangerous, it's the demeanor of the Mage welding it.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

I worry that they've made him a Seeker, but that we'd still end up with Cassandra as a companion, which would mean no Cullen loving since we can't have two Seekers in our party.

That being said, they want their characters to have "iconic looks" so I doubt they'd want him to lose his signature Templar status if he is a companion.

They haven't confirmed Cassandra as *the* seeker companion, have they? 

I agree that they probably wouldn't change Cullen's iconic look. When I play modded DA:O or DA2 with Cullen as an extra companion, he never looks quite right when dressed in other armor or normal street clothing. (or mage robes!)

I always expect him to be dressed like this:


(I need to go eat and work and be responsible for a while.)

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

I'd like to think that he's come to the conclusion that possessing power (be in magic or other) isn't what makes someone dangerous, it's the fear in their heart and the hunger for power that truly turns a man. Magic isn't dangerous, it's the demeanor of the Mage welding it.

Yes, this. 

(That's mirrors the conclusion Evangeline comes to.)

And now I really need to run.