89415 réponses à ce sujet

[LolaLei]

[LolaLei]

[Adela]

@Lola

DAMN them pics looook gooood when did u say u will make vids of him again? or did i misunderstood that?

[LolaLei]

ag99 wrote...

@Lola

DAMN them pics looook gooood when did u say u will make vids of him again? or did i misunderstood that?

Yeah, I do fan vids of him on a different channel that I usually solely for Cullen videos LOL!

[Adela]

uuuh mind if i get a link to that channel pls

[HurricaneGinger]

motomotogirl wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Exactly. Had he shown up in DA2 being completely fine and dandy then it would be a sign of crap writing. There's a good reason why the poor guy is messed up.

Yeah and that's my whole point. Cullen is SUCH a good example of a well-written character. In real life, would you like being around this person? (Personally, I do think I would be friends with him. I am friends with people who have wildly different political beliefs than I do, and Cullen isn't even a radical. Plus he's a genuinely nice guy.) Maybe not. But that doesn't mean he isn't well-written.

Also, running out shouting that he's evil and comparing him to Hitler doesn't make me even want to engage with you on the topic. You're an idiot. I'd rather talk politics with my cat.

It's also a poor debate platform. I'm not that great of a debater, however comparing someone to a horrid historical figure will not get you points. To me, it's like:

"Okay. Why is he like Hitler? Did he kill millions of people? Did he commit suicide? Did he fail to get into art school? Did he draw Mickey Mouse in his free time? Oh, none of these things? Then...your argument is invalid. Pick something else to strengthen your argument, site your sources, and come back to me when you get a gold star on your paper."

(I'd be one nightmare of a professor. >)

LolaLei wrote...

Chiantirose1982 wrote...

I
had to hop in here after reading the Cullen thread (and adding my 2
cents, poorly heh) to say I admire your patients dannyboy; I would have
already flung around cuss words at that guy.

Reading all of those
Cullen threads reminds me of the countless times I ventured in threads
trying to defend Kaidan, but it's pointless, if someone wants to hate a
character than you can't change their minds, no matter how hard you try
and how many good points you make.

Eeesh, tell me about it! Kaidan got so real hate flung at him, for no reason at all.

Poor Kaidan. It took a long time for me to like him; I started to really like him in ME3 when I found out he was a closet-nerd. He's so adorable. But I never understood the "he whines!" argument. You ask him what's wrong, and he tells you but only after a few pokes!

[CuriousArtemis]

PhantomGinger wrote...

"Okay. Why is he like Hitler? Did he kill millions of people? Did he commit suicide? Did he fail to get into art school? Did he draw Mickey Mouse in his free time? Oh, none of these things? Then...your argument is invalid. Pick something else to strengthen your argument, site your sources, and come back to me when you get a gold star on your paper."

(I'd be one nightmare of a professor. >)

You'd be a good one because that is a standard judgment. I fail papers without sources.

[LolaLei]

ag99 wrote...

uuuh mind if i get a link to that channel pls

Here it is:

ww.youtube.com/channel/UCXeFbJCDqsjL6ESb_fulJPQ

I did have another with more videos, but I acidentally deleted the whole thing whilst trying to close its google+ thingy.

[CuriousArtemis]

PhantomGinger wrote...

Poor Kaidan. It took a long time for me to like him; I started to really like him in ME3 when I found out he was a closet-nerd. He's so adorable. But I never understood the "he whines!" argument. You ask him what's wrong, and he tells you but only after a few pokes! 

I wasn't even aware people hated Kaiden  W-Why?? He's such a nice guy. He gets mad at Shepard for joining Cerberus..... with good reason; I mean, *I* was mad at Shepard for joining Cerberus LOL Other than that?????

[LolaLei]

motomotogirl wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

Poor Kaidan. It took a long time for me to like him; I started to really like him in ME3 when I found out he was a closet-nerd. He's so adorable. But I never understood the "he whines!" argument. You ask him what's wrong, and he tells you but only after a few pokes! 

I wasn't even aware people hated Kaiden  W-Why?? He's such a nice guy. He gets mad at Shepard for joining Cerberus..... with good reason; I mean, *I* was mad at Shepard for joining Cerberus LOL Other than that?????

People warmed to him a lot more once ME3 came out, fortunately.

[LolaLei]

R2, I just saw your post in that other thread:

"One additional thing to keep in mind is that, as of 9:40, Cassandra, Seeker of Truth and agent of the Divine, has no idea what the heck really happened in Kirkwall. If it was so easy to make a case for Meredith being the Big Bad, you'd think that Cassandra would have known. But instead, she finds out from Varric that "Meredith was to blame."

Despite us all discussing this several times, I never actually took into account that if it had been common knowledge that Meredith went loopy then she wouldn't have needed to interrogate Varric in the first place. Which means that there's a good chance that Cullen could have got in trouble for insubordination etc.

Modifié par LolaLei, 30 juillet 2013 - 09:38 .

[Adela]

LolaLei wrote...

ag99 wrote...

uuuh mind if i get a link to that channel pls

Here it is:

ww.youtube.com/channel/UCXeFbJCDqsjL6ESb_fulJPQ

I did have another with more videos, but I acidentally deleted the whole thing whilst trying to close its google+ thingy.

ty for the link , i just got done watching the 1 video in there i loved it cant wait to see more

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2, I just saw your post in that other thread:

"One additional thing to keep in mind is that, as of 9:40, Cassandra, Seeker of Truth and agent of the Divine, has no idea what the heck really happened in Kirkwall. If it was so easy to make a case for Meredith being the Big Bad, you'd think that Cassandra would have known. But instead, she finds out from Varric that "Meredith was to blame."

Despite us all discussing this several times, I never actually took into account that if it had been common knowledge that Meredith went loopy then she wouldn't have needed to interrogate Varric in the first place. Which means that there's a good chance that Cullen could have got in trouble for insubordination etc.

Mmm, yes and no. I was thinking about from a different angle just now, and she didn't go to find out what happened to Meredith. She went there to find Hawke, right? So it makes sense she'd ask Hawke's best friend. It's also plausible that finding out about Meredith's crazy pants was an unintended outcome. The notion actually just sparked a story idea for me!

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2, I just saw your post in that other thread:

"One additional thing to keep in mind is that, as of 9:40, Cassandra, Seeker of Truth and agent of the Divine, has no idea what the heck really happened in Kirkwall. If it was so easy to make a case for Meredith being the Big Bad, you'd think that Cassandra would have known. But instead, she finds out from Varric that "Meredith was to blame."

Despite us all discussing this several times, I never actually took into account that if it had been common knowledge that Meredith went loopy then she wouldn't have needed to interrogate Varric in the first place. Which means that there's a good chance that Cullen could have got in trouble for insubordination etc.

Mmm, yes and no. I was thinking about from a different angle just now, and she didn't go to find out what happened to Meredith. She went there to find Hawke, right? So it makes sense she'd ask Hawke's best friend. It's also plausible that finding out about Meredith's crazy pants was an unintended outcome. The notion actually just sparked a story idea for me!

But didn't she go to find Hawke because she thought he/she could end the mage/templar problem purely because she thought that Hawke had caused it because of Anders blowing up the Chantry and then him/her either siding with the mages or siding with the templars and either way killing Meredith.

Meredith's lyrium madness couldn't be common knowledge otherwise she would've known, especially since she's a high ranking Seeker.

[LolaLei]

Lol, lemme rephrase that. I was distracted whilst I was typing so it didn't make much sense.

Cassandra went to Kirkwall to interrogate Varric because she was hoping that he would tell her where Hawke was so that he/she could put a stop to the mage/templar conflict. She also presumed initially that Hawke 'n' co had essentially caused all the trouble purposely, including the death of Meredith.

So she must have thought that Hawke 'n' co, (with the help of Cullen) had purposely planned to overthrow/kill her, rather than the truth which was that Meredith had gone mad on red lyrium and they had no choice but to kill her. So, in theory it's probably not common knowledge that Cullen was actually doing the right thing by aiding Hawke, and instead may have been villianised and branded as a usurper/betrayer etc and as such may have been arrested or whatever.

Modifié par LolaLei, 30 juillet 2013 - 10:10 .

[CuriousArtemis]

I think it's also to keep in mind that the templars and the Divine/Cassandra/Leliana are no longer really on the same side, so Cullen simply NOT choosing to murder all the mages (and instead defying Meredith) is enough to land him in a dungeon! I totally get where you all were coming from with this after reading Asunder.

Seriously think we're going to rescue him, as per Cass/Leliana's orders, from a templar dungeon!

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Lol, lemme rephrase that. I was distracted whilst I was typing so it didn't make much sense.

Cassandra went to Kirkwall to interrogate Varric because she was hoping that he would tell her where Hawke was so that he/she could put a stop to the mage/templar conflict. She also presumed initially that Hawke 'n' co had essentially caused all the trouble purposely, including the death of Meredith.

So she must have thought that Hawke 'n' co, (with the help of Cullen) had purposely planned to overthrow/kill her, rather than the truth which was that Meredith had gone mad on red lyrium and they had no choice but to kill her. So, in theory it's probably not common knowledge that Cullen was actually doing the right thing by aiding Hawke, and instead may have been villianised and branded as a usurper/betrayer etc and as such may have been arrested or whatever.

Yes, I agree that she went to interrogate Varric in order to find Hawke so he/she can stop the war, and also that Cass initially thought Hawke caused it all. Which, come to think of it, doesn't really make a whole lot of sense; why would Hawke want to help if he/she is this evil, plotting-since-Ferelden baddie?

In any case, my only point previously was that it makes sense Cassandra would ask Varric for a way to find Hawke, not Cullen, because she's not there to find out what happaned with Meredith. She thinks she knows. She just wants to turn the screws on Varric to get an insight on where the Champion went/would be. Right? And Varric was her friend. Cullen wasn't nearly as close with her (according to canon... ahem... <_<).

Now, that being said... if I were looking for someone, ideally I'd want to find out as much about where they were last seen as I could. If that was the fight with Meredith, I'd probably also want to talk to the folks who were there... like Cullen. Which unfortunately again begs the question of why the heck didn't she ask Cullen...? *sigh*

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 juillet 2013 - 10:24 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

So she must have thought that Hawke 'n' co, (with the help of Cullen) had purposely planned to overthrow/kill her, rather than the truth which was that Meredith had gone mad on red lyrium and they had no choice but to kill her. So, in theory it's probably not common knowledge that Cullen was actually doing the right thing by aiding Hawke, and instead may have been villianised and branded as a usurper/betrayer etc and as such may have been arrested or whatever.

OK, I was reading so fast... I think I didn't properly parse this. Now I see what you mean, that if Cassandra thinks Hawke's so bad, and that Cullen helped her, then Cullen must be bad, too. Heh. Yes, I think this is also possible. I mean, I don't think we have any way of knowing if Cassandra even knew what Cullen's role was, hero, helper, antagonist. She seemed to know so little...

That being said... Cullen *IS* another Fereldan, supporting her "it's all a Fereldan conspiracy" idea! LOL

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 juillet 2013 - 10:31 .

[rapscallioness]

Cass really does act like Hawke did all this stuff on purpose. It was sum grand design instead of just dumb bad luck.

It's weird, cuz on the one hand Cass acts like she just wants Hawkes help. But then she seems truly convinced that all the madness that happened was a plot and Hawke was behind it.

[HurricaneGinger]

R2s Muse wrote...

In any case, my only point previously was that it makes sense Cassandra would ask Varric for a way to find Hawke, not Cullen, because she's not there to find out what happaned with Meredith. She thinks she knows. She just wants to turn the screws on Varric to get an insight on where the Champion went/would be. Right? And Varric was her friend. Cullen wasn't nearly as close with her (according to canon... ahem... <_<).

Now, that being said... if I were looking for someone, ideally I'd want to find out as much about where they were last seen as I could. If that was the fight with Meredith, I'd probably also want to talk to the folks who were there... like Cullen. Which unfortunately again begs the question of why the heck didn't she ask Cullen...? *sigh*

Maybe he was thrown in the dungeons, and that knowledge hasn't exactly been spread around; maybe kept hush hush?

[rapscallioness]

Cass might have known abt the idol and Meredith tho.

At one point before the deep roads she says to Varric something abt how Hawke must have known what was down there and what would happen. That it couldn't have been just for coin. Hawke was looking for that idol...to...apparently poison Meredith...and stuff.

[R2s Muse]

rapscallioness wrote...

Cass might have known abt the idol and Meredith tho.

At one point before the deep roads she says to Varric something abt how Hawke must have known what was down there and what would happen. That it couldn't have been just for coin. Hawke was looking for that idol...to...apparently poison Meredith...and stuff.

Yeah, you know, I wish I had a video of just Cassandra's parts, all spliced together so I could watch them and try and get a self-consistent picture of what it is that Cassandra really thought before talking to Varric. You just get weird little comments like that, here and there.

On the idol... maybe Cassandra was just spitballing? She's convinced that Hawke must have had a plan, so assumes this idol must have been part of it?? Altho, you say she mentions the idol before Varric does...? /head hurts

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 juillet 2013 - 10:39 .

[R2s Muse]

PhantomGinger wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

In any case, my only point previously was that it makes sense Cassandra would ask Varric for a way to find Hawke, not Cullen, because she's not there to find out what happaned with Meredith. She thinks she knows. She just wants to turn the screws on Varric to get an insight on where the Champion went/would be. Right? And Varric was her friend. Cullen wasn't nearly as close with her (according to canon... ahem... <_<).

Now, that being said... if I were looking for someone, ideally I'd want to find out as much about where they were last seen as I could. If that was the fight with Meredith, I'd probably also want to talk to the folks who were there... like Cullen. Which unfortunately again begs the question of why the heck didn't she ask Cullen...? *sigh*

Maybe he was thrown in the dungeons, and that knowledge hasn't exactly been spread around; maybe kept hush hush?

But, if he's in a dungeon somewhere... he'd be easy for her to question, right? *sigh* Too many question marks. I mean, is it plausible that he's really just on the other side of Kirkwall, sitting in Meredith's office, when Cass is going to all this trouble to track down Varric and question him?

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Lol, lemme rephrase that. I was distracted whilst I was typing so it didn't make much sense.

Cassandra went to Kirkwall to interrogate Varric because she was hoping that he would tell her where Hawke was so that he/she could put a stop to the mage/templar conflict. She also presumed initially that Hawke 'n' co had essentially caused all the trouble purposely, including the death of Meredith.

So she must have thought that Hawke 'n' co, (with the help of Cullen) had purposely planned to overthrow/kill her, rather than the truth which was that Meredith had gone mad on red lyrium and they had no choice but to kill her. So, in theory it's probably not common knowledge that Cullen was actually doing the right thing by aiding Hawke, and instead may have been villianised and branded as a usurper/betrayer etc and as such may have been arrested or whatever.

Yes, I agree that she went to interrogate Varric in order to find Hawke so he/she can stop the war, and also that Cass initially thought Hawke caused it all. Which, come to think of it, doesn't really make a whole lot of sense; why would Hawke want to help if he/she is this evil, plotting-since-Ferelden baddie?

In any case, my only point previously was that it makes sense Cassandra would ask Varric for a way to find Hawke, not Cullen, because she's not there to find out what happaned with Meredith. She thinks she knows. She just wants to turn the screws on Varric to get an insight on where the Champion went/would be. Right? And Varric was her friend. Cullen wasn't nearly as close with her (according to canon... ahem... <_<).

Now, that being said... if I were looking for someone, ideally I'd want to find out as much about where they were last seen as I could. If that was the fight with Meredith, I'd probably also want to talk to the folks who were there... like Cullen. Which unfortunately again begs the question of why the heck didn't she ask Cullen...? *sigh*

True, but what I'm getting at is that she still thought she knew what happened with the Meredith thing, and seemed surprised when she realised what really happened. So if someone of her standing thought it went down a certain way (before getting the truth) then a lot of other people must also have the wrong information too.

I think the fact that she seemingly didn't ask was also down to the game being rushed, but they could easily hand wave that all away with a storyline that places Cullen under arrest/on the run after the events of DA2, thus her not interrogating him too because he wasn't available.

Modifié par LolaLei, 30 juillet 2013 - 10:43 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

True, but what I'm getting at is that she still thought she knew what happened with the Meredith thing, and seemed surprised when she realised what really happened. So if she thought it went down a certain way (before getting the truth) then a lot of other people must also have the wrong information.

Oh, yes, most certainly Cassandra isn't the only one who's got it wrong. It seems the whole world does, and the victors write history. The question is... does that history think Cullen was on evil!Hawke's side? Heh.

I think the fact that she seemingly didn't ask was also down to the game being rushed, but they could easily hand wave that all away with a storyline that places Cullen under arrest/on the run after the events of DA2, thus her not interrogating him too because he wasn't available.

You know, my sneeaking suspicion is that they got a cool idea... badass!Cassandra seems like the antagonist, has the wrong story, finds out the real story from Varric, becomes a Champion fangirl, and we find out Cassandra's a good guy all along. I bet once the details started to break down it was too late to deviate from their cool idea. And they'll just hand wave it later. Cullen glossed over Meredith's madness, to honor her memory, and said she just died in battle. Cullen was dishonorably discharged for insubordination and now wanders the countryside anonymously righting wrongs. Cullen's in jail and crazy from lyrium withdrawal and so by the time they thought to ask him what happened... they thought the flying Meredith story was the crazy talking.

Heh here's a question. What if what happens to Cullen also depends on what happened to your Hawke? i.e. pro-templar Hawke, Cullen is Gallows KC; pro-mage Hawke, Cullen is wandering mercenary/prisoner/farmer.