89415 réponses à ce sujet

[LolaLei]

Dammit, I'm still ****ing bummed out about that Mass Effect 3 EC dlc. Implied reunion with the Normandy/LI aside, it's still a cop out... I wanted definitive confirmation of it. Grrrr.

Is it bad that with all the controversy surrounding DA2 being a bit pants and the ME3 endings I'm actually losing faith in Bioware as a whole? It's weird, I'm desperate to get my hands on DA3, but at the same time I'm really concerned that it'll be crap or they'll start needlessly killing off past and new companions just to be dramatic... or give us ****ty endings that leave very little "feel good" factor. I just know i'll feel sick all the way through DA3 until I complete it the first time and find out what happens.

Modifié par LolaLei, 27 juin 2012 - 03:49 .

[Dwarva]

LolaLei wrote...

Dammit, I'm still ****ing bummed out about that Mass Effect 3 EC dlc. Implied reunion with the Normandy/LI aside, it's still a cop out... I wanted definitive confirmation of it. Grrrr.

Me too. I know I sound like a broken record but I wish they'd shown it rather than implying it. I've not even played it yet because I'm honestly not that bothered. I thought I'd be itching to play but now that I know you don't get to see Shep and Kaidan together again I'm fairly blah about the whole thing.

[berelinde]

I hope they've learned their lesson. People *care* about the fates of the characters, both the protagonist and his or her companions. It's a video game, not a book. Even if the choices given are only the illusions of choice, players help shape the story and when their decisions don't matter, they feel betrayed. No matter how dramatic and/or tragic you think your "everybody dies" ending is, and no matter how conveniently it wraps up all the loose ends, if you write it like that people will hate you for it.

My biggest fear (apart from being forced to play a Seeker), is that they're going to completely disregard the decisions of the players who kept Anders alive and kill him off between the games no matter what you did. I know, Anders isn't very popular here, but everybody has their favorites, and sometimes, they don't necessarily play on the same team.

That's my thing. It isn't necessarily about one choice being "right" and the other choice being "wrong", it's about being free to enjoy the characters you like without regard to which color shirt they're wearing.

Anyway, this runs the risk of turning into an epic wall of text, so I'd better nip it in the bud.

I do wonder what they're going to do with Cullen, though. It would break my heart if they turned back the clock on the character growth he had during DA2 and made him an Origins-epilogue mage-killer. That was one of the things I liked best about interacting with the templars in DA2. When you talk to him in Act 1, he tells you that mages aren't people. When you talk to him in Act 3, he doesn't sound like he knows what to believe any more, and that's a big sign of maturity in my book. It shows that he's thinking for himself rather than repeating what he's been told to think.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

My biggest fear (apart from being forced to play a Seeker), is that they're going to completely disregard the decisions of the players who kept Anders alive and kill him off between the games no matter what you did. I know, Anders isn't very popular here, but everybody has their favorites, and sometimes, they don't necessarily play on the same team.

That's my thing. It isn't necessarily about one choice being "right" and the other choice being "wrong", it's about being free to enjoy the characters you like without regard to which color shirt they're wearing.

Gosh, I'd be so surprised/pissed/heartbroken if they totally disregarded your Anders murder knife decision. I honestly flip flop on my love for Anders from playthrough to playthrough, but deciding what to do after Chantry blow up is one of my hardest decisions in the game. No matter what I've chosen, I felt lousy about it afterwards, which I think is the sign of a meaningful decision point. To take that away... Woweee... There would be lots o' 'splaining to do.

I do wonder what they're going to do with Cullen, though. It would break my heart if they turned back the clock on the character growth he had during DA2 and made him an Origins-epilogue mage-killer. That was one of the things I liked best about interacting with the templars in DA2. When you talk to him in Act 1, he tells you that mages aren't people. When you talk to him in Act 3, he doesn't sound like he knows what to believe any more, and that's a big sign of maturity in my book. It shows that he's thinking for himself rather than repeating what he's been told to think.

Indeed, this was on my list of things I'm worried they'll do to the character. But that maturity seemed so very deliberate in the writing, and not just existing in my own fangirl  imaginings, that it would also surprise me if they actually did that.

Heh heh, seeing my responses here, I guess I'm a Bioware loyalist, and I have faith -- perhaps also correlating with the fact that I haven't played ME3 or the ME3 DLC. LOL 

Modifié par R2s Muse, 27 juin 2012 - 05:12 .

[R2s Muse]

Staarbux wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dammit, I'm still ****ing bummed out about that Mass Effect 3 EC dlc. Implied reunion with the Normandy/LI aside, it's still a cop out... I wanted definitive confirmation of it. Grrrr.

Me too. I know I sound like a broken record but I wish they'd shown it rather than implying it. I've not even played it yet because I'm honestly not that bothered. I thought I'd be itching to play but now that I know you don't get to see Shep and Kaidan together again I'm fairly blah about the whole thing.

Darn, that sounds lousy. Maybe Rafael Sbarge would record another Kaidan goodbye/epiloguey thing for the fans...

[LolaLei]

Staarbux wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dammit, I'm still ****ing bummed out about that Mass Effect 3 EC dlc. Implied reunion with the Normandy/LI aside, it's still a cop out... I wanted definitive confirmation of it. Grrrr.

Me too. I know I sound like a broken record but I wish they'd shown it rather than implying it. I've not even played it yet because I'm honestly not that bothered. I thought I'd be itching to play but now that I know you don't get to see Shep and Kaidan together again I'm fairly blah about the whole thing.

Omg Kaidan's face in those cutscenes, I ****ing cried my eyes out!

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dammit, I'm still ****ing bummed out about that Mass Effect 3 EC dlc. Implied reunion with the Normandy/LI aside, it's still a cop out... I wanted definitive confirmation of it. Grrrr.

Me too. I know I sound like a broken record but I wish they'd shown it rather than implying it. I've not even played it yet because I'm honestly not that bothered. I thought I'd be itching to play but now that I know you don't get to see Shep and Kaidan together again I'm fairly blah about the whole thing.

Darn, that sounds lousy. Maybe Rafael Sbarge would record another Kaidan goodbye/epiloguey thing for the fans...

Oh, don't get me wrong, there is a heavily implied reunion and the goodbye scenes we get are fantastic. I'm just annoyed that they implied the reunion and had to get a dev to clarify it, rather than actually tell us/show us in game.

Modifié par LolaLei, 27 juin 2012 - 05:12 .

[Lilaeth]

I'm with you on that LolaLei. It reeks of a final slap at us, to leave that needing clarification from a dev!

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dammit, I'm still ****ing bummed out about that Mass Effect 3 EC dlc. Implied reunion with the Normandy/LI aside, it's still a cop out... I wanted definitive confirmation of it. Grrrr.

Me too. I know I sound like a broken record but I wish they'd shown it rather than implying it. I've not even played it yet because I'm honestly not that bothered. I thought I'd be itching to play but now that I know you don't get to see Shep and Kaidan together again I'm fairly blah about the whole thing.

Darn, that sounds lousy. Maybe Rafael Sbarge would record another Kaidan goodbye/epiloguey thing for the fans...

Oh, don't get me wrong, there is a heavily implied reunion and the goodbye scenes we get are fantastic. I'm just annoyed that they implied the reunion and had to get a dev to clarify it, rather than actually tell us/show us in game.

Hmm, if a dev can officially confirm that it happens, as opposed to saying that they left up to interpretation on purpose, then it does sound like they shoulda said it/showed it flat out in in the game. I'm honestly floored that they must have gotten such an outpouring of feedback on what fans wanted, and then still failed to provide. Weird.

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

I hope they've learned their lesson. People *care* about the fates of the characters, both the protagonist and his or her companions. It's a video game, not a book. Even if the choices given are only the illusions of choice, players help shape the story and when their decisions don't matter, they feel betrayed. No matter how dramatic and/or tragic you think your "everybody dies" ending is, and no matter how conveniently it wraps up all the loose ends, if you write it like that people will hate you for it.

My biggest fear (apart from being forced to play a Seeker), is that they're going to completely disregard the decisions of the players who kept Anders alive and kill him off between the games no matter what you did. I know, Anders isn't very popular here, but everybody has their favorites, and sometimes, they don't necessarily play on the same team.

That's my thing. It isn't necessarily about one choice being "right" and the other choice being "wrong", it's about being free to enjoy the characters you like without regard to which color shirt they're wearing.

Anyway, this runs the risk of turning into an epic wall of text, so I'd better nip it in the bud.

I do wonder what they're going to do with Cullen, though. It would break my heart if they turned back the clock on the character growth he had during DA2 and made him an Origins-epilogue mage-killer. That was one of the things I liked best about interacting with the templars in DA2. When you talk to him in Act 1, he tells you that mages aren't people. When you talk to him in Act 3, he doesn't sound like he knows what to believe any more, and that's a big sign of maturity in my book. It shows that he's thinking for himself rather than repeating what he's been told to think.

I don't have a problem with Anders, infact he's my male canon Hawke's LI, I just don't like his sodding voice actor IRL. I don't think they'll pull another stunt where he's magically alive, or suddenly dead... if they do then they'd better do it in-game and give a ****ing good reason why they're killing off past companions... and if they kill Alistair or Warden then I'll ****ing flip.

I don't think they'd have Cullen "regress" into a zealot again, unless your character chooses to actively influence him to become one (like the whole "hardening" "softening" thing.)

[berelinde]

Heh. I haven't played any of the ME games, but I've heard enough to be wary. From what I understand, the characters were just as compelling as the ones in the DA universe, but sci-fi makes my eyes glaze over (What is this "pulse rifle" thing you speak of? Is it akin to a longbow?).

My anxiety is probably misplaced. The game design decision making of DA2 and that of ME2 were pretty close to simultaneous. They used a lot of shared design elements... but what works in ME doesn't necessarily work in DA. The game design decision making of ME3 took place before the release of DA2, so there was no time to learn from it. The decision making of "the next thing" finished up very recently, however, and they've had a chance to process fan feedback from both DA2 and from ME3. Time will tell, but it looks as if they are taking feedback to heart.

We'll see, though. All this assumes that Cullen is in DA3. C'mon, though. How cruel would it be to tempt us with him for two games and then *not* make him a companion?

[LolaLei]

Lilaeth wrote...

I'm with you on that LolaLei. It reeks of a final slap at us, to leave that needing clarification from a dev!

What irks me, is that Shepard is the most important character in the whole series and yet in the destroy ending we get gives us no ****ing insight into whether he/she actually survives. Sure, you get a cutscene of Shep taking a gasp of air, but that doesn't clarify if he/she actually survives or is even pulled from the rubble. Everyone else gets closure, even the control and synthesis Shepards... but on the one sodding ending where Shepard actually "lives" you don't get any information on his/her fate or if the Normandy/LI ever reunites with him/her.

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

Heh. I haven't played any of the ME games, but I've heard enough to be wary. From what I understand, the characters were just as compelling as the ones in the DA universe, but sci-fi makes my eyes glaze over (What is this "pulse rifle" thing you speak of? Is it akin to a longbow?).

My anxiety is probably misplaced. The game design decision making of DA2 and that of ME2 were pretty close to simultaneous. They used a lot of shared design elements... but what works in ME doesn't necessarily work in DA. The game design decision making of ME3 took place before the release of DA2, so there was no time to learn from it. The decision making of "the next thing" finished up very recently, however, and they've had a chance to process fan feedback from both DA2 and from ME3. Time will tell, but it looks as if they are taking feedback to heart.

We'll see, though. All this assumes that Cullen is in DA3. C'mon, though. How cruel would it be to tempt us with him for two games and then *not* make him a companion?

You should totally watch the new EC scenes from ME3, they are ****ing heartbreaking but beautifully done, I'd hope the DA team take inspiration from the way Mass Effect made your LI really important to the main plot, espcially the endings.

In terms of Cullen, it certainly seems likely that he will be a companion but you can never tell with David Gaider whether or not he'll actually give us what the fans want, or screw them over for "lols"... he's a bit of a wild card.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

Heh. I haven't played any of the ME games, but I've heard enough to be wary. From what I understand, the characters were just as compelling as the ones in the DA universe, but sci-fi makes my eyes glaze over (What is this "pulse rifle" thing you speak of? Is it akin to a longbow?).

LMAO You know, it's funny, but I sorta know what you mean. I love sci fi movies, but can't stand to read sci fi books. Not so keen on sci fi games either... but nevertheless I keep expecting ME to appeal to me. So, I keep trying... and honestly I do not have the physical skill it seems to play ME. I get so frustrated with the combat, that I quit for months at a time, and then forget everything all over again (plot, keybindings). I can't believe I'm saying this out loud... but it makes me feel girlie. I think I need to figure out the cheat codes, so I can play for the story (flinches against tomato throwing...). LMAO

My anxiety is probably misplaced. The game design decision making of DA2 and that of ME2 were pretty close to simultaneous. They used a lot of shared design elements... but what works in ME doesn't necessarily work in DA. The game design decision making of ME3 took place before the release of DA2, so there was no time to learn from it. The decision making of "the next thing" finished up very recently, however, and they've had a chance to process fan feedback from both DA2 and from ME3. Time will tell, but it looks as if they are taking feedback to heart.

All good reasons to be hopeful!

We'll see, though. All this assumes that Cullen is in DA3. C'mon, though. How cruel would it be to tempt us with him for two games and then *not* make him a companion?

Cruel and unusual and stinky and mean and sucky... but I still expect it to happen...   [go go expectation management!]

[Lilaeth]

LolaLei wrote...

Lilaeth wrote...

I'm with you on that LolaLei. It reeks of a final slap at us, to leave that needing clarification from a dev!

What irks me, is that Shepard is the most important character in the whole series and yet in the destroy ending we get gives us no ****ing insight into whether he/she actually survives. Sure, you get a cutscene of Shep taking a gasp of air, but that doesn't clarify if he/she actually survives or is even pulled from the rubble. Everyone else gets closure, even the control and synthesis Shepards... but on the one sodding ending where Shepard actually "lives" you don't get any information on his/her fate or if the Normandy/LI ever reunites with him/her.

I suppose they would claim it gives us all room for our headcanon(s).  But deep inside I think they just couldn't bring themselves to give us what we wanted.

As for Cullen, I wouldn't be surprised if they left him out for the same reason.  Even though he was quite the hero at the end of DA2!

[LolaLei]

Lilaeth wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Lilaeth wrote...

I'm with you on that LolaLei. It reeks of a final slap at us, to leave that needing clarification from a dev!

What irks me, is that Shepard is the most important character in the whole series and yet in the destroy ending we get gives us no ****ing insight into whether he/she actually survives. Sure, you get a cutscene of Shep taking a gasp of air, but that doesn't clarify if he/she actually survives or is even pulled from the rubble. Everyone else gets closure, even the control and synthesis Shepards... but on the one sodding ending where Shepard actually "lives" you don't get any information on his/her fate or if the Normandy/LI ever reunites with him/her.

I suppose they would claim it gives us all room for our headcanon(s).  But deep inside I think they just couldn't bring themselves to give us what we wanted.

As for Cullen, I wouldn't be surprised if they left him out for the same reason.  Even though he was quite the hero at the end of DA2!

I can't help but think that they did it as a "**** you" to the fans for kicking off by giving us "hope" and "implied" reunions, rather than real confirmation. I definitely feel like Bioware is losing their way under EA's influence.

My biggest fear for DA3 is that they'll start doing really ****ty things to spite the fans, especially if DG's attitude on here is anything to go by. Don't get me wrong, I can see why he's pissed off with us because a lot of the fans did start getting personal by verbally attacking the devs and I can imagine it's hard to see someone slam something you've busted your arse to make, not to mention the pressure he must be under to create something good enough to save Bioware from yet another vicious hate attack... deep down he knows another sh!t storm could be the final nail in the coffin for the company and EA have already fired a bunch of people from the SWTOR team. All eyes are literally on the DA team now. Regardless, I can imagine DG 'n' co getting a few punches in for revenge by doing the opposite of what the fans want, or giving us Cullen and then making him unromanceable or killing him off mid-game without the option to save him... worse yet, pull a Mass Effect 3 stunt and kill off our protagonist just when you've finally managed to romance Cullen, leaving him all alone and royally head ****ed!

Modifié par LolaLei, 27 juin 2012 - 06:08 .

[EricHVela]

berelinde wrote...

^^ No, I'd rather save Cullen for a future protagonist.

That's quite interesting.
Dragon Age: Origins (72? possible histories)
Dragon Age: Kirkwall (6 histories)
Dragon Age: Templar (Cullen)
Dragon Age: ... (88+ histories)

I think I'm okay with that if Dragon Age: Templar isn't the only one that comes after Dragon Age: Kirkwall.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 27 juin 2012 - 06:20 .

[LolaLei]

ReggarBlane wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ No, I'd rather save Cullen for a future protagonist.

That's quite interesting.
Dragon Age: Origins (72? possible histories)
Dragon Age: Kirkwall (6 histories)
Dragon Age: Templar (Cullen)
Dragon Age: ... (88+ histories)

I think I'm okay with that if Dragon Age: Templar isn't the only one that comes after Dragon Age: Kirkwall.

... I don't get it lol.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ No, I'd rather save Cullen for a future protagonist.

That's quite interesting.
Dragon Age: Origins (72? possible histories)
Dragon Age: Kirkwall (6 histories)
Dragon Age: Templar (Cullen)
Dragon Age: ... (88+ histories)

I think I'm okay with that if Dragon Age: Templar isn't the only one that comes after Dragon Age: Kirkwall.

... I don't get it lol.

Hmmm... I'm afraid I don't either... Unless ReggarBlane is interpreting Berelinde's comment as wanting Cullen to BE the protagonist, instead of what she meant, which was she wants to reserve Cullen as LI for the future protagonist...? But... I still don't get the histories part...  Are those like Origins...?

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ No, I'd rather save Cullen for a future protagonist.

That's quite interesting.
Dragon Age: Origins (72? possible histories)
Dragon Age: Kirkwall (6 histories)
Dragon Age: Templar (Cullen)
Dragon Age: ... (88+ histories)

I think I'm okay with that if Dragon Age: Templar isn't the only one that comes after Dragon Age: Kirkwall.

... I don't get it lol.

Hmmm... I'm afraid I don't either... Unless ReggarBlane is interpreting Berelinde's comment as wanting Cullen to BE the protagonist, instead of what she meant, which was she wants to reserve Cullen as LI for the future protagonist...? But... I still don't get the histories part...  Are those like Origins...?

Oh! Yeah, I think maybe ReggarBlane got the wrong idea lol.

[berelinde]

^^ Judging from what I've been reading today, that wouldn't surprise me.

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

^^ Judging from what I've been reading today, that wouldn't surprise me.

Are you losing faith too?

[berelinde]

LolaLei wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ Judging from what I've been reading today, that wouldn't surprise me.

Are you losing faith too?

In BioWare's ability to produce an enjoyable, replayable game despite pressure to appeal to a wider audience? No, I'm pretty sure they'll pull through. In humanity...

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ Judging from what I've been reading today, that wouldn't surprise me.

Are you losing faith too?

In BioWare's ability to produce an enjoyable, replayable game despite pressure to appeal to a wider audience? No, I'm pretty sure they'll pull through. In humanity...

I never thought I'd see the day where I wouldn't want to replay a Bioware game. Usually, after completing them once, I'm like "omg i HAVE to play that again" and will fire it up literally as soon I've finished the first playthrough. With ME3 it was a battle to complete it the first time knowing those endings (I spoilt it for myself by reading the leaked script LOL) and doing it a second time just to experience the EC dlc was even harder. Hell, even with DA2 (which I really disliked at first) I still wanted to play it through a few more times to get the best outcome for Hawke 'n' co and to prepare it for import into any future DA games that might occur (at that point I didn't even know they were making a 3rd one.)

For me personally, DA3 will be the deciding factor of whether or not I continue to play Bioware games in the future. I don't want to waste my time and money becoming emotionally invested in the characters and stories if they're going to screw us over by rushing the games out the door before they're fully developed or needlessly kill off characters and give us nonsensical endings just to be "dark & edgy"... Letting us bond with companions and create our own protagonists and get attached to them, only to kill them off or give them an ambiguous ending isn't what I signed up for lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 27 juin 2012 - 08:20 .

[LolaLei]

Anyway, negativity aside, IF the DA team can give us gut-wrenching, heartbreaking scenes with our companions in DA3 (minus the killing them off thing) then that would be amazing. As much as I love the Dragon Age games they lack the emotional depth that the Mass Effect games (ME3 in particular) gives you with your companions.

Omg if Cullen ever gets scenes similar to Kaidan's ones (the love scene, the goodbye scenes etc) then I'll probably squee the place down... and then cry if they get separated lol.