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[R2s Muse]

I'm sorta of excited and dismayed at John Epler's tweet about reading dialogue already... That sounds like the big story arcs and companion choice is ... done. *gulp* Meaning, they've already gotten all the input on that that they're likely to want. Hopefully it all takes into account recent story-based concerns... but certainly pre-dates the ME3 EC dissatisfaction. Hmmm.... I wish we knew more.

edit for top: Behind the metal by dino-myte

Modifié par R2s Muse, 28 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[VampOrchid]

Sorry off topic! But my hair is pink YAYZ!

http://vamporchid.de...t.com/#/d55aqg5

had to share lol

[VampOrchid]

I was reading through here quickly, wow you gals are like wild fire.

I still have my fingies crossed though...argh...until then, I continue my fanfic lol

[R2s Muse]

VampOrchid wrote...

Sorry off topic! But my hair is pink YAYZ!

http://vamporchid.de...t.com/#/d55aqg5

had to share lol

OMG, it looks awesome!!  The color is so bright!

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

I'm sorta of excited and dismayed at John Epler's tweet about reading dialogue already... That sounds like the big story arcs and companion choice is ... done. *gulp* Meaning, they've already gotten all the input on that that they're likely to want. Hopefully it all takes into account recent story-based concerns... but certainly pre-dates the ME3 EC dissatisfaction. Hmmm.... I wish we knew more.

Not necessarily.

The big story arcs and companion choices are done and have been since about two weeks after Mark Darrah made the announcement that he was pulling everybody off the expansion to work on the Next Thing. That stuff gets decided very early on. That happened *after* ME3 came out, so there's a chance they will have had time to process the feedback.

So why are we even talking about it? It's entertaining. Also, the characters may be decided, but that doesn't mean that their development arcs are complete. Our feedback may help. A tweak here, a wiggle there. Sometimes, that makes all the difference. Most of the DA2 banter was gleaned from the forum discussion threads, don't forget. A lot of what we say does wind up in the game, even if it's a writer poking fun at us.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

I'm sorta of excited and dismayed at John Epler's tweet about reading dialogue already... That sounds like the big story arcs and companion choice is ... done. *gulp* Meaning, they've already gotten all the input on that that they're likely to want. Hopefully it all takes into account recent story-based concerns... but certainly pre-dates the ME3 EC dissatisfaction. Hmmm.... I wish we knew more.

Not necessarily.

The big story arcs and companion choices are done and have been since about two weeks after Mark Darrah made the announcement that he was pulling everybody off the expansion to work on the Next Thing. That stuff gets decided very early on. That happened *after* ME3 came out, so there's a chance they will have had time to process the feedback.

So why are we even talking about it? It's entertaining. Also, the characters may be decided, but that doesn't mean that their development arcs are complete. Our feedback may help. A tweak here, a wiggle there. Sometimes, that makes all the difference. Most of the DA2 banter was gleaned from the forum discussion threads, don't forget. A lot of what we say does wind up in the game, even if it's a writer poking fun at us.

Good points. I have no idea how these development cycles work, and I'd actually never heard that about the DA2 banter! How cool! OK... guess I'll switch back to excited...

[LolaLei]

Yeah, it's likely still just the first draft of the main plot he was reading or something, since he's not part of the writers pit I can only presume that they give all the team copies of the script for feedback purposes, as well as to keep them in the loop to help them get into the mood of the story and be able to do their part in the games development cycle more efficiently.

They've probably had the basis of the main plot thought out since they finished making DA2, and we know they started laying the ground work about a week or so after, so I'm not too worried about the script being pretty much done. I'm more worried about the fact that they've likely picked the companions already. That being said, if this is already all in process then why are they asking us for feedback and questions? Could it be that it is just damage control? I mean, so far everyone's asking for things that have been repeated on this forum thousands of times, so the DA team are bound to know what the general consensus want already?

Modifié par LolaLei, 28 juin 2012 - 02:33 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, it's likely still just the first draft of the main plot he was reading or something, since he's not part of the writers pit I can only presume that they give all the team copies of the script for feedback purposes, as well as to keep them in the loop to help them get into the mood of the story and be able to do their part in the games development cycle more efficiently.

They've probably had the basis of the main plot thought out since they finished making DA2, and we know they started laying the ground work about a week or so after, so I'm not too worried about the script being pretty much done. I'm more worried about the fact that they've likely picked the companions already. That being said, if this is already all in process then why are they asking us for feedback and questions? Could it be that it is just damage control? I mean, do far everyone's asking for things that have been repeated on this forum thousands of times, so the DA team are bound to know what the general consensus want already?

You know a lot of the recent questions aren't really about the basic story, though, but sound to be more about gameplay mechanics (e.g. the dialogue icons). Or merchandising (*cough* seriously?*cough*). I suppose it could make sense that they're still working through those mechanical aspects, since the writers jobs are always the ones that need to be done first.

Also, thinking about it some more, most companions are also really subplots which perhaps don't need to be locked in as early, either. Anyhoo, I suppose regardless of what's happening with DA3, I'll keep merrily speculating about Cullen.

[berelinde]

A while ago, whenever somebody would post something critical about the decisions the devs made for DA2 and include statistics to back it up, somebody would always chime in with this term that means, in essence, "You're only including the data points that are relevant to your side of the argument. We have access to telemetry, investment data, etc. that you don't have." But fans aren't the only ones capable of this kind of self-deception. I am concerned that they're only going to look at "feedback" that tells them to do what they were planning to do anyway. And then turn around and say "Fans were clamoring for these changes! We have the feedback to prove it."

I'm still optimistic, but I would describe my optimism as "guarded" rather than "unbridled".

Edit: Also keep in mind that the most active dev these days is Allan Schumaker (apologies if I'm getting the name wrong). He's a QA guy. He can pass info along, but mostly, his job starts when development ends.

Modifié par berelinde, 28 juin 2012 - 02:48 .

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

A while ago, whenever somebody would post something critical about the decisions the devs made for DA2 and include statistics to back it up, somebody would always chime in with this term that means, in essence, "You're only including the data points that are relevant to your side of the argument. We have access to telemetry, investment data, etc. that you don't have." But fans aren't the only ones capable of this kind of self-deception. I am concerned that they're only going to look at "feedback" that tells them to do what they were planning to do anyway. And then turn around and say "Fans were clamoring for these changes! We have the feedback to prove it."

I'm still optimistic, but I would describe my optimism as "guarded" rather than "unbridled".

Edit: Also keep in mind that the most active dev these days is Allan Schumaker (apologies if I'm getting the name wrong). He's a QA guy. He can pass info along, but mostly, his job starts when development ends.

I worry about that too, I mean, I'm pretty sure that over half of the stuff people want to see in the DA3 (Orlais, acknowledgement if your a blood mage, an Orlesian ball etc) are things that were going to be put into the game long before anyone else asked for it, plus I find a lot of the posters in the forum will repeatedly make requests that are obviously going to be in the game anyway, even when DG 'n' co have already told us that it's happening (like no re-used environments.)

But I think, if the DA team really are taking all our feedback and ideas into consideration then it's definitely the right way to go about things, it would certainly help save Bioware from any future fallout. If Bioware had been doing this from the start (on a larger scale than just fan demand for Tali and Garrus as love interests) then they could have avoided things like the ME3 ending fiasco and the DA2 outrage. But, I guess prior to those two **** up's Bioware could do no wrong, so I guess they just presumed the fans would love anything they produced regardless.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, it's likely still just the first draft of the main plot he was reading or something, since he's not part of the writers pit I can only presume that they give all the team copies of the script for feedback purposes, as well as to keep them in the loop to help them get into the mood of the story and be able to do their part in the games development cycle more efficiently.

They've probably had the basis of the main plot thought out since they finished making DA2, and we know they started laying the ground work about a week or so after, so I'm not too worried about the script being pretty much done. I'm more worried about the fact that they've likely picked the companions already. That being said, if this is already all in process then why are they asking us for feedback and questions? Could it be that it is just damage control? I mean, do far everyone's asking for things that have been repeated on this forum thousands of times, so the DA team are bound to know what the general consensus want already?

You know a lot of the recent questions aren't really about the basic story, though, but sound to be more about gameplay mechanics (e.g. the dialogue icons). Or merchandising (*cough* seriously?*cough*). I suppose it could make sense that they're still working through those mechanical aspects, since the writers jobs are always the ones that need to be done first.

Also, thinking about it some more, most companions are also really subplots which perhaps don't need to be locked in as early, either. Anyhoo, I suppose regardless of what's happening with DA3, I'll keep merrily speculating about Cullen.

Yeah, the questions include possible fodder for future DA installments too beyond just the games, so chances are a lot of what we've asked for will be shown in comics and novels instead lol.

I'm not too sure how the companions work regarding subplots, but they must have at least picked some of them already in order to include them in the script (their reactions, banter about missions, etc) especially the plot heavy companions (if they're still gonna do that.) I'm expecting them to ask us at what NPC's we'd like to see return at some point and I'm expecting a lot of people to interpret the question wrong and presume they're asking us what companions we'd want in DA3 lol.

[LolaLei]

VampOrchid wrote...

Sorry off topic! But my hair is pink YAYZ!

http://vamporchid.de...t.com/#/d55aqg5

had to share lol

I love it! The colour really suits you!

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

I actually liked female Hawke's voice (glances around). What? Her poshness didn't bother me that much!

Anyway, I liked the party interaction. That they did rich. But, I think they should try to incorporate a Paragon/Renegade-like trigger action thing where the protagonist does an action during a cut scene that would effect the story. I actually didn't mind how Mass Effect-ish the game felt in comparison to Origins. It's a Bioware system that works, so why shy away from it?

I haven't played the ME series yet (not sure if I will). How did the Paragon/Renegade trigger actions work in ME?

Well during a cinematic cutscene. sometimes you'll the option to interupt the person you're talking to by delivering a good (paragon) or badass (renegade) action, so, for example, Shepard is talking to a news reporter who is being aggressive with her questions trying to make Shepard look bad, Shepard answers the questions but then a red renegade prompt pops up on screen and you have a couple of seconds to decide whether to press the associated button to carry out the renegade action, or ignore it. If you choose the renegade option then Shepard will punch the reporter in the face and you'll get a few renegade points added to your alignment, if you ignore it then you carry on with the original conversation and pick from the dialogue options available. It's a nice addition, but I dunno if they'd put it in a Dragon Age game, simply because people would start yelling that DA is trying to become Mass Effect lol.

[berelinde]

Unless they come up with a way to pause dialogue, I really do not want timers in my dialogue.

You all know how that works. You fire up the game, you're playing along, and sig-O, hubby, boyfriend, etc. walks in and starts babbling. You've explained that dialogues aren't pausable 5000 times, but he doesn't care. So you ignore him until the person doing the talking shuts up and waits for you to hit a reply, and then you talk to sig-O, hubby, BF, etc. until he says he's done. And then you start playing again, and then he comes back and starts babbling again.

C'mon, tell me I'm not the only one who has this happen every single time I try to play. It's worse than trying to use the phone with a 4 year old in the house.

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

Unless they come up with a way to pause dialogue, I really do not want timers in my dialogue.

You all know how that works. You fire up the game, you're playing along, and sig-O, hubby, boyfriend, etc. walks in and starts babbling. You've explained that dialogues aren't pausable 5000 times, but he doesn't care. So you ignore him until the person doing the talking shuts up and waits for you to hit a reply, and then you talk to sig-O, hubby, BF, etc. until he says he's done. And then you start playing again, and then he comes back and starts babbling again.

C'mon, tell me I'm not the only one who has this happen every single time I try to play. It's worse than trying to use the phone with a 4 year old in the house.

Urgh man I hate that! And then they tell you off when you talk whilst they're playing (for revenge lol)

But yeah, it would suck if it was timed dialogue. The paragon/renegade interupts aren't dialogue in a traditional sense, it's usually an action so you don't really miss much if you don't use them.

Modifié par LolaLei, 28 juin 2012 - 04:03 .

[Dwarva]

berelinde wrote...

You all know how that works. You fire up the game, you're playing along, and sig-O, hubby, boyfriend, etc. walks in and starts babbling. You've explained that dialogues aren't pausable 5000 times, but he doesn't care. So you ignore him until the person doing the talking shuts up and waits for you to hit a reply, and then you talk to sig-O, hubby, BF, etc. until he says he's done. And then you start playing again, and then he comes back and starts babbling again.

Oh god I know this well. Chris has been well warned that if he talks to me during this time I will NOT listen and anything important said is null and void. He used to use it as reason to ask me important stuff and then claim I said yes.



Fool.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

Unless they come up with a way to pause dialogue, I really do not want timers in my dialogue.

You all know how that works. You fire up the game, you're playing along, and sig-O, hubby, boyfriend, etc. walks in and starts babbling. You've explained that dialogues aren't pausable 5000 times, but he doesn't care. So you ignore him until the person doing the talking shuts up and waits for you to hit a reply, and then you talk to sig-O, hubby, BF, etc. until he says he's done. And then you start playing again, and then he comes back and starts babbling again.

C'mon, tell me I'm not the only one who has this happen every single time I try to play. It's worse than trying to use the phone with a 4 year old in the house.

LOL Oh yeah, I've been there. How many times have I had to reload to actually hear a dialogue again?  But then... now I'm also on the other end of that. Hubby o' mine inevitably fires up SWTOR during my son's nighttime routine... which means inevitably, I'll need him to do something, like, oh read his only son a book, and it's always an imposition. *grumble*  Yeah, I'm a BIG fan of the pause button all around. Heck, now that I'm a lifelong tivo user, I'm also a fan of instant rewind... too bad real life doesn't have them. LOL

[LolaLei]

Going back to the whole companion being one of the main antagonists thing, perhaps another way to go if Bioware didn't want to ruin the whole companion dynamic theme is to have the antagonist be an NPC who we work closely with throughout the whole game. For example, during the protagonist origin/prologue she is rescued by some aging guy who saves her life and accompanies her to Orlais (since he was going that way) you learn a little about him and he seems like a really nice, harmless guy. You part ways on arrival but encounter him a little later on in the game, where he helps you and your companions again by offering you a place to stay in his house or whatever. Throughout the game he helps you out in various ways and in return you do the odd quest for him. Because you work so closely with him and pretty much live in his house he has access to your personal information and earns your trust so he can cause trouble behind the scenes without ever being suspected. So if something terrible happened like a group of hired mercs breaking in to try and kidnap you, or the house suddenly goes up in flames no-one would ever suspect him. And when he plants little seeds of doubt between you and your companions we'd just presume it was friendly concern, not knowing that he'd been stirring up trouble between all of you.

Modifié par LolaLei, 28 juin 2012 - 04:46 .

[LolaLei]

[berelinde]

Trust and betrayal are powerful story elements, so it would definitely be cool if a companion or close NPC betrayed the protagonist somehow. As long as it wasn't a love interest, of course, because that leads to fan rage, and there's enough of that already.

Having that character be a mentor is cool, but having them as a contemporary is also fun. "What?! You were like a brother to me!"

Who here is bad with spoilers? I am. I read them all. I'm wondering how that would work out if there was a betrayal. Would it still be poignant if you got accidentally spoiled beforehand?

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

Trust and betrayal are powerful story elements, so it would definitely be cool if a companion or close NPC betrayed the protagonist somehow. As long as it wasn't a love interest, of course, because that leads to fan rage, and there's enough of that already.

Having that character be a mentor is cool, but having them as a contemporary is also fun. "What?! You were like a brother to me!"

Who here is bad with spoilers? I am. I read them all. I'm wondering how that would work out if there was a betrayal. Would it still be poignant if you got accidentally spoiled beforehand?

I spoiled Mass Effect 3 by reading the entire leaked script, but I was still pissed off with the endings even though I knew what was coming LOL!

I'm hoping that the new DA3 script won't be leaked, because I know I'll end up reading it to see if Cullen's in it. I guess it wouldn't be as poignant if we found out before playing the game but it would still be equally as entertaining in a different way because we'd be looking out for subtle signs that the "bad" companion/character is gonna screw them over lol.

[berelinde]

Good point. I spent most of DA2 looking for signs that Anders was going to do something drastic. And that's kind of what got me thinking along those lines. Yeah, I enjoyed looking for the signs, but I wonder if I would have made the connection between gunpowder and drakestone/sela petrae. As a chemist, I would like to think that I would have picked up on it, but I'll never know for sure.

Bringing this back to Cullen, how clever do you think he would be about spotting an imminent betrayal? His experiences have got to have made him kind of wary. Would he try to warn the PC? Would she accuse him of being paranoid and tell him to take a lyrium and talk to her when he's sober? (I kid, I kid) Or would she start distrusting her own shadow?

Edit: And speaking of leaked scripts, who here remembers the 4chan DA2 "leaked script" that was utterly and totally fabricated? Actually, it was pretty cool. It had the party going into the Black City and all kinds of other fun stuff.

Modifié par berelinde, 28 juin 2012 - 10:21 .

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

Good point. I spent most of DA2 looking for signs that Anders was going to do something drastic. And that's kind of what got me thinking along those lines. Yeah, I enjoyed looking for the signs, but I wonder if I would have made the connection between gunpowder and drakestone/sela petrae. As a chemist, I would like to think that I would have picked up on it, but I'll never know for sure.

Bringing this back to Cullen, how clever do you think he would be about spotting an imminent betrayal? His experiences have got to have made him kind of wary. Would he try to warn the PC? Would she accuse him of being paranoid and tell him to take a lyrium and talk to her when he's sober? (I kid, I kid) Or would she start distrusting her own shadow?

Edit: And speaking of leaked scripts, who here remembers the 4chan DA2 "leaked script" that was utterly and totally fabricated? Actually, it was pretty cool. It had the party going into the Black City and all kinds of other fun stuff.

I think Cullen is likely to distrust everyone to start off with, so I think he'd pick up on it really quickly... unless the "bad" companion managed to lure him into a false sense of trust by telling him what he wanted to hear... Hm, that's an interesting concept actually!

I wasn't around for the whole DA2 thing, I'd literally only just discovered DA:O and finished it as DA2 came out so I played them back to back lol.

[LolaLei]

Ok ladies, here's some DA3 related updates from Mike Laidlaw's Twitter, sounds promising:



Paul U: Mike, can you guys hurry up with Dragon age 3? I'm getting old over here! Can't wait - easily one of my favorite series!
Mike Laidlaw: Moving as fast as we can on The Next Dragon Age Thing™, will endeavor to make the wait worth it.


Mike Laidlaw: "Colour those eyes green and yellow and you, sir, have got a hypnotoad" #sprintreviewday
Mike Laidlaw: A future so bright, I gotta fight shades. #sprintreviewday
Mike Laidlaw: Saves, stats, scripts, and scales. #sprintreviewday
Mike Laidlaw: Servant-powered reciprocating ballista? Madness. #sprintreviewday
Susan Saville: What is #sprintreviewday?
Mike Laidlaw: It’s a thing we do every two weeks where we look at…stuff. For a thing we may or may not be making. Ahem.


(Regarding DA2) Admiral Derek: Perhaps in some ways it was a little ahead of its time. But that's really not a bad thing. Just felt the need to say!
Mike Laidlaw: Thanks so much. Really appreciate the feedback, and glad you enjoyed it. Still, lots to improve for...ahem....future things.

Modifié par LolaLei, 28 juin 2012 - 10:47 .

[LolaLei]

And here's some from other members of the DA3 team:


John Epler: Like I said pic.twitter.com/pdDg364A
John Epler: Planning out scene. Pretending coat rack is wizard staff while trying to show what I mean.

Mark Darrah: About to start #SprintDayReview. So get ready for a bunch of vague (but DA related) tweets.

Mark Darrah: Helm's Deep meets the Batcave #sprintdayreview
Mark Darrah: Foleymometer #sprintdayreview
Mark Darrah: Procedural footsteps #sprintdayreview
Mark Darrah: This #sprintdayreview pic.twitter.com/YoVSpomv

Richlando: Silent prayer (because I type very quiet) that the next Dragon Age is more open world. Want to see it all!!
Mark Darrah: exploration is definately a feature I want to bring back.