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[Adela]

berelinde wrote...


But it's different when they do it with Morrigan and Leliana?

@R2: Yes, the male Warden and male Hawke are important... but they're the protagonists, and often played by men. I'd just like to see a little more gender parity in the "OMG IMPORTANT NPC" category. I don't think that's too unreasonable. And hey! If they did decide to allow some male LI (Cullen?) to go on to greatness, would you really complain?

I guess they could do this with Sebastian, if they wanted. He always survives. He's no Alistiar, but he is (technically) a LI for lady Hawkes.

Well I havent really been on the forums for that long but every time I see a Cullen thread in the DAI forums  it  almost imidietly  bursts into an outrage that Cullen is the devil or whatever  but when I see a Morrigan or Leliana thread  that hate is not as strong so idk guess women are more appreciated then men?

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...
I guess I'm confused by the difference between "OMG IMPORTANT NPC" and fave LIs. Alistair is a pretty big character. Maric was in his time. The Arishok. Varric got a comic and travels with Cass in the next game. I dunno. Not seeing a lack of parity. 

Alistair: possibly dead, many possible epilogues, possibility of major future involvement=slim/nil
Maric: personally appears only in supplemental media, possibility of any future involvement=nil
Arishok: (past) most likely dead; (present) many variables, some non-canon
Varric: I remain hopeful about his involvement in the future of Thedas, but not likely an LI

Leliana: in everything, hand of the Divine, possibility of future involvement=promised
Morrigan: major player in DAI, confirmed
Flemeth: major player in Thedas
Cassandra: participation in future games confirmed
The Divine
Empress Celene
Anora (according to her fans) - personally, I'm skeptical, but she always survives DAO


Just to be clear, I'm not advocating the reduction in important female NPCs. I *am* advocating more extended careers for the boys. Don't kill them off after one game, and make plot armor available in larger sizes.

I'm probably not expressing myself properly. I'd really like to know what it's like to look at the forums and get excited about seeing how big a deal characters I care about are going to be in DAI. I can't imagine what it's like, but I'm hoping that someday, maybe I'll find out.

[R2s Muse]

I... well, I can see advocating for more cute boys to not die, but I'm still not convinced there's a trend by these criteria. If there really is... well, I suppose anything that works against the Women in Refrigerators trope is fine by me.

[berelinde]

There is such a thing as going too far in the other direction. An examination of the careers of past male LIs in comparison to their female counterparts will show you what I mean.

What constitutes a trend? Let's look at the careers of the LIs for both games...

Alistair: multiple epilogues, several of which feature death
Zevran: multiple epilogues, several of which feature death
Morrigan: rocks the world for years to come
Leliana: rocks the world for years to come

Anders: 2 epilogues, permanently dead in one
Fenris: no obvious tie-in with future games, possibly dead
Isabela: always survives, tie-in with the Qunari possible but not confirmed
Merrill: no obvious tie-in with future games, possibly dead
Sebastian: connection to Starkhaven, always survives, not sure if Starkhaven is a destination

Looking at that, it does seem that there's a trend toward evening things up, in the sense that DA2's male LIs were only slightly less likely to be relevant in the future than the female LIs, but DAO was not a hard benchmark to beat. It probably didn't help that both Leliana and Morrigan got their own DLC while Alistair and Zevran were ignored. So, maybe the trend will continue to improve?

[meanieweenie]

berelinde wrote...

There is such a thing as going too far in the other direction. An examination of the careers of past male LIs in comparison to their female counterparts will show you what I mean.

What constitutes a trend? Let's look at the careers of the LIs for both games...

Alistair: multiple epilogues, several of which feature death
Zevran: multiple epilogues, several of which feature death
Morrigan: rocks the world for years to come
Leliana: rocks the world for years to come

Anders: 2 epilogues, permanently dead in one
Fenris: no obvious tie-in with future games, possibly dead
Isabela: always survives, tie-in with the Qunari possible but not confirmed
Merrill: no obvious tie-in with future games, possibly dead
Sebastian: connection to Starkhaven, always survives, not sure if Starkhaven is a destination

Looking at that, it does seem that there's a trend toward evening things up, in the sense that DA2's male LIs were only slightly less likely to be relevant in the future than the female LIs, but DAO was not a hard benchmark to beat. It probably didn't help that both Leliana and Morrigan got their own DLC while Alistair and Zevran were ignored. So, maybe the trend will continue to improve?

Not necessarily... Justice seems to have no problem riding zombie style:

[berelinde]

NVM - context of original post no longer applies

Modifié par berelinde, 13 août 2013 - 12:47 .

[meanieweenie]

Washing away the bitterness....

[berelinde]

That is a thing of beauty, meanieweenie! You have one of the best image collections on the internets!

[LolaLei]

It still looks like he's pissing on a horse in that pic, LOL!

[meanieweenie]

With that look on his face it really does look like he's trying not to get caught peeing on it. lol

Wish I could take credit but it's either littlenikki's or R2's. I googled for it. *shame*

[R2s Muse]

meanieweenie wrote...

With that look on his face it really does look like he's trying not to get caught peeing on it. lol

Wish I could take credit but it's either littlenikki's or R2's. I googled for it. *shame*

that's littlenikki's. 

[berelinde]

meanieweenie wrote...

With that look on his face it really does look like he's trying not to get caught peeing on it. lol

Shh! It's sultry! Think smouldering... or perhaps not. If he is taking a leak, that isn't something you want to warm up...

Still, thanks to whoever made that image.

[LolaLei]

Who was it that wrote the story about Cullen washing horses for a living, and then some creepy old woman made him shag her for a lyrium fix?

[Dirgegun]

 I return from the hidious place that is the DA:I forums, in utter bewilderment of the Hawke hate. I loved my sarcastic jackass Hawke. I think I had a bit of a crush on him, actually. 

[berelinde]

LolaLei wrote...

Who was it that wrote the story about Cullen washing horses for a living, and then some creepy old woman made him shag her for a lyrium fix?

That would be me.

[LolaLei]

Oops.

[R2s Muse]

So I read DG's posts about Hawke and the Warden more thoroughly... Does it seem to everyone else that they'll show up in person in DA:I?

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

So I read DG's posts about Hawke and the Warden more thoroughly... Does it seem to everyone else that they'll show up in person in DA:I?

IDK. It's pretty clear that we'll find out what they've been up to, but I'm not sure they'll show up personally. I wouldn't mind if they did, but I won't feel deprived if they don't. File it under "Cool, but optional."

[Dirgegun]

R2s Muse wrote...

So I read DG's posts about Hawke and the Warden more thoroughly... Does it seem to everyone else that they'll show up in person in DA:I?

I suspect they'll either show up in person, or we'll hear a lot about something they're involved in-- possible from Flemeth or Morrigan. I have no idea what they could be involved in if it doesn't involve either of those two. Especially Flemeth.

I actually have no worries about this at all, because when it comes right down to it I don't control what the characters get involved in. I controlled the characters in their specific games, but not the events they were thrust into, so the DA devs having a plot that involves them doesn't bother me. Instead it's just another circumstance they were both thrust into and didn't have much option to tell those around them to bugger off.

I love my Warden and Hawke, but I guess I'm not so possessive of them that I'll get up in arms about them being used for something else. In fact I had the exact opposite reaction to the majority, and was all "they're both missing?! Some big sh!t is goin' down! Now tell me about it, because it sounds awesome!"  

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

So I read DG's posts about Hawke and the Warden more thoroughly... Does it seem to everyone else that they'll show up in person in DA:I?

I would imagine it would be easier to implement Hawke, since he's voiced, but the Warden could be a little trickier. Presumably we'd have to recreate them both at the start or something though.

[Jean]

motomotogirl wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Gosh, if he's still going on about my Amell after 10+ years my Inquisitor is gonna pop him one in the face. It's been years Cullen, she ain't interested, she's with Alistair. Move on, man! 

If he starts going on about Amell I honestly think I might not be able to romance him LOL

DA romances don't seem to have the LIs dwell so much on past loves/hookups (unlike every single male LI in Mass Effect at some point or another)

[R2s Muse]

I'm not particularly attached to my characters, so I'm not too worried about being told what they're up to. But... to be honest, walking up face to face with my character, who's being controlled by some other ghost in the machine, just seems ... weird.

[berelinde]

I am curious about how they'd handle the appearances, though. It's a different engine, etc. Lola's solution - create their appearances with some kind of CC - would probably be the way to go. Either that or have them hooded and cloaked.

[LolaLei]

I don't mind them being an npc, I just don't want them to have split up with their LI, lol.

[meanieweenie]

Easiest solution - tombstones. Just sayin'.