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[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

For what it is worth, I've seen actual PTSD in action and unless the writers were completely lucky/oblivious when writing Cullen, his Act 1 behavior is a textbook classic case as are some of the things he confesses to Hawke (while hardly evening knowing him/her).

So, ymmv. But I will stand firm on this one.

I'd say the PTSD was definitely written into his character, it would have been silly not to. It seems strange of the DA team to go into such depth with his character if they don't plan to use him as a companion/LI. After all, he was just a very minor NPC in DA:O. Hell not even Anders had that much character development in DA2 and he was one of the plot heavy companions.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

I think most of fandom assumes Cullen will come back as a companion. I'll be sort of surprised if he does not. Of course, I'm managing expectations in both directions:

- If Cullen doesn't come back as a companion, I don't want to feel too disappointed.
- If Cullen does come back as a companion but Greg Ellis doesn't voice him or the writing is completely WTF'ed and his story is ridiculously forced/silly/dumb/annoying, I really need to brush off the disappointment and enjoy what is good in DA3.  

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

It's possible that his recruits were probably gossiping about his past, perhaps they triggered his PTSD by mentioning it/joking about it to him, thus causing him to lash out. I dare say even mentioning the Warden brings back memories of his torture since he/she rescues him in the Broken Circle quest... which might also be another reason why the rumours of his love for the female mage Warden seems to cause him pain initially.

I don't have the script in front of me ATM but Cullen makes it very clear that recruits like Wilmod are associating with mages and not taking the Order's rules seriously. I think that alone would cause a problem for Cullen shortly after the Ferelden events.

By 9:34 (Act 2) he seems much less triggerish, although hints still occur in some of his lines. 

By 9:37 (Act 3) he appears to have evened out rather well.

There's a quest either in Act 2 or Act 3 where Grace 'n' co have escaped the Gallows and taken one of your companions/siblings captive. Cullen mentions then that mages should never be trusted. So I think he's still relatively anti-mage even by the end of DA2, but I suspect (and hope) that this will be elaborated upon futher in DA3, I mean, it would kinda suck if we get him as a companion/LI in DA3 and he's "issue-less", we still need a bit of that mage-hate in order to change his mind (especially if we do play as a mage), it makes sense that we'd see his eureka moment in all it's glory in the new game.

Actually, I don't think of Cullen as mage hating or anti-mage. He never exhibits true anti-mage bigotry or true mage hatred. Instead, he exhibits a very complex mess of traits that are driven entirely by fear. His most explosive lines are classic knee-jerk fight-or-flight overreactive responses to a trauma that has deeply wounded his ability to rationally think about whether or not a situation in front of him is dangerous or not.

If Cullen was a true anti-mage person, he would never reinstate Keran and his responses to the mage warden in and *after* broken circle would be very different. 

I realize this sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but PTSD is not the same as hatred and this is a point that fandom confuses over and over again. 

And I don't mean to sound rantish about this either. 

Ok maybe mage-hating/anti-mage wasn't the best way for me to describe his state of mind, it was just me trying to describe in a round-about way his PTSD still being present in DA3. Which, I feel is how it should be. I mean, there are still going to be triggers or certain things that give him flashbacks to his torture and he's still going to be mis-trusting of mages at first, (especially if the protagonist is one), I can't imagine he'll be thrilled to learn that he's taking orders from a mage LOL!

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

It's possible that his recruits were probably gossiping about his past, perhaps they triggered his PTSD by mentioning it/joking about it to him, thus causing him to lash out. I dare say even mentioning the Warden brings back memories of his torture since he/she rescues him in the Broken Circle quest... which might also be another reason why the rumours of his love for the female mage Warden seems to cause him pain initially.

I don't have the script in front of me ATM but Cullen makes it very clear that recruits like Wilmod are associating with mages and not taking the Order's rules seriously. I think that alone would cause a problem for Cullen shortly after the Ferelden events.

By 9:34 (Act 2) he seems much less triggerish, although hints still occur in some of his lines. 

By 9:37 (Act 3) he appears to have evened out rather well.

There's a quest either in Act 2 or Act 3 where Grace 'n' co have escaped the Gallows and taken one of your companions/siblings captive. Cullen mentions then that mages should never be trusted. So I think he's still relatively anti-mage even by the end of DA2, but I suspect (and hope) that this will be elaborated upon futher in DA3, I mean, it would kinda suck if we get him as a companion/LI in DA3 and he's "issue-less", we still need a bit of that mage-hate in order to change his mind (especially if we do play as a mage), it makes sense that we'd see his eureka moment in all it's glory in the new game.

Actually, I don't think of Cullen as mage hating or anti-mage. He never exhibits true anti-mage bigotry or true mage hatred. Instead, he exhibits a very complex mess of traits that are driven entirely by fear. His most explosive lines are classic knee-jerk fight-or-flight overreactive responses to a trauma that has deeply wounded his ability to rationally think about whether or not a situation in front of him is dangerous or not.

If Cullen was a true anti-mage person, he would never reinstate Keran and his responses to the mage warden in and *after* broken circle would be very different. 

I realize this sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but PTSD is not the same as hatred and this is a point that fandom confuses over and over again. 

And I don't mean to sound rantish about this either. 

I agree about the PTSD (not that I have any particular knowledge about it, but it all sounds plausible to me), and that he's not a mage-hater. I think he's a mage-realist. My point previously was more that I don't recall him knowing Wilmod et al were dealing with mages and such, more that there was something "sinister" and suspicious  was going on with these young whipper snappers who don't follow all the rules, but it's been a while since I've looked at those details of the quest. I'll have to look at it again.

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...
I agree about the PTSD (not that I have any particular knowledge about it, but it all sounds plausible to me), and that he's not a mage-hater. I think he's a mage-realist. My point previously was more that I don't recall him knowing Wilmod et al were dealing with mages and such, more that there was something "sinister" and suspicious  was going on with these young whipper snappers who don't follow all the rules, but it's been a while since I've looked at those details of the quest. I'll have to look at it again.

One of the investigate dialogue options in Wilmod's camp leads to Cullen saying this:

"Wilmod had never been fully… convinced of the Order's rules. Mages cannot be our friends. They must always be watched. I thought Wilmod might be meeting with some old friends who'd escaped the Circle"

[LolaLei]

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Honestly, I think he'll initially start off as the same Cullen we've seen all along. He will respond well to mages who prove that they can be trusted and he will continue to take orders from them. Admittedly, those mages are rare in Cullen's world.

As for mages in the party -- HA! -- I would expect to see shades of Fenris, especially since Fenris and Cullen shared dialogue almost word for word (!) in DA2 in multiple places. So, if a Merrill-type demon-dealing blood mage was in the party, Cullen would be very nervous and would wonder why our PC isn't turning him/her in to the authorities, assuming there are any authorities. If this takes place after Lambert ends the accord between the Templars and the Chantry, I guess Cullen would see templar-style authority fall into the hands of fair minded individuals so, at that point, it would be his duty to keep an eye on a Merrill-style mage in the party. 

Soooooo much room for nasty tension, methinks! 

Modifié par vieralynn, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:17 .

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Hi guys....

Let me just jump on in at that point and ask this:

What if Cullen isn't in the "take orders" position at all? What if part of the tension is a leadership struggle? For instance, our PC is simply part of a group and not necessarily assumed to be the leader? I say this in the nicest of ways, but the main bone of contention I had with Alistair is that he freely gave authority to a noob. He was the senior and out ranked them all yet let someone else lead without question. The plus is that it added to his character and story as a whole but I don't picture this being a seasoned Templar's temperment.

Anyway, I think it'd be fun to see some kind of scrambling for control of the group. Perhaps only to realize they're all fighting toward the same goal - or maybe not!

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Honestly, I think he'll initially start off as the same Cullen we've seen all along. He will respond well to mages who prove that they can be trusted and he will continue to take orders from them. Admittedly, those mages are rare in Cullen's world.

As for mages in the party -- HA! -- I would expect to see shades of Fenris, especially since Fenris and Cullen shared dialogue almost word for word (!) in DA2 in multiple places. So, if a Merrill-type demon-dealing blood mage was in the party, Cullen would be very nervous and would wonder why our PC isn't turning him/her in to the authorities, assuming there are any authorities. If this takes place after Lambert ends the accord between the Templars and the Chantry, I guess Cullen would see templar-style authority fall into the hands of into the hands of fair minded individuals so, at that point, it would be his duty to keep an eye on a Merrill-style mage in the party. 

Soooooo much room for nasty tension, methinks! 

Omg I think he would literally freak out if we do end up with another blood mage companion (even if they do appear sweet and naive), poor old Cullen would be using smite 24/7 LOL! I think he'd take a young mage companion (like that Elf kid in Dawn of the Seeker) under his wing and end up developing a brotherly or parental relationship with him/her

I think Cullen's initial reaction to joining a mage protagonist would probably be fine to start off with (because he'd be oblivious to the fact that he/she is a mage), until we use our powers for the first time and he'll be like "wtf, you're a mage?! Get back in the Circle!" (Kinda like Fenris was when we recruit him in DA2, and also as a mod to Cullen's lack of perception around mages in DA2 lol.) I think after his discovery he will be very wary to start off with, half expecting him/her to turn to blood magic/become possessed/screw him over, but over time he'll warm up and let his guard down and come to enjoy the mage protagonists company (especially if romanced.) By the end of it I think he'll regard the protagonist to be like a brother/sister to him (if you're nice to him, but didn't romance him) or the love of his life (if you do romance him.)  I'm kinda hoping that we will get the chance to screw him over at some point (like you could with pretty much all our companions in DA:O/DA2) because I would love to see his reaction as his world breaks all over again (especially when romanced)... not that I'd ever do that, but I'd watch it on YouTube LOL!

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Hi guys....

Let me just jump on in at that point and ask this:

What if Cullen isn't in the "take orders" position at all? What if part of the tension is a leadership struggle? For instance, our PC is simply part of a group and not necessarily assumed to be the leader? I say this in the nicest of ways, but the main bone of contention I had with Alistair is that he freely gave authority to a noob. He was the senior and out ranked them all yet let someone else lead without question. The plus is that it added to his character and story as a whole but I don't picture this being a seasoned Templar's temperment.

Anyway, I think it'd be fun to see some kind of scrambling for control of the group. Perhaps only to realize they're all fighting toward the same goal - or maybe not!

I think that would lead to some hot angry sex LOL!

But seriously though, I expect we will have this problem with Cassandra if she's a companion... so it could be one big power struggle if we add Cullen to the mix too... or they'd just have Cullen pull an Alistair and follow orders like a good little Templar lol.

If however, it was just a leadership struggle between the protagonist and Cullen, I imagine there would be a lot of conflicting orders at first and him second guessing and questioning everything the protagonist does that conflicts with the way he would do things. Over time however, I think they'd either end up working together nicely (if you friendship/romance him) or he'll continuely argue with you throughout the game and/or leave the group (if you rival/hate him.)

Modifié par LolaLei, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:29 .

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Hi guys....

Let me just jump on in at that point and ask this:

What if Cullen isn't in the "take orders" position at all? What if part of the tension is a leadership struggle? For instance, our PC is simply part of a group and not necessarily assumed to be the leader? I say this in the nicest of ways, but the main bone of contention I had with Alistair is that he freely gave authority to a noob. He was the senior and out ranked them all yet let someone else lead without question. The plus is that it added to his character and story as a whole but I don't picture this being a seasoned Templar's temperment.

Anyway, I think it'd be fun to see some kind of scrambling for control of the group. Perhaps only to realize they're all fighting toward the same goal - or maybe not!

I think that would lead to some hot angry sex LOL!

But seriously though, I expect we will have this problem with Cassandra if she's a companion... so it could be one big power struggle if we add Cullen to the mix too... or they'd just have Cullen pull an Alistair and follow orders like a good little Templar lol.

If however, it was just a leadership struggle between the protagonist and Cullen, I imagine there would be a lot of conflicting orders at first and him second guessing and questioning everything the protagonist does that conflicts with the way he would do things. Over time however, I think they'd either end up working together nicely (if you friendship/romance him) or he'll continuely argue with you throughout the game and/or leave the group (if you rival/hate him.)

Uuuugh.... I'd love to find out someone in the group was a straight up traitor / spy. Juicy! But yes, I tend to agree with you as far as the constant bickering goes.... until the steamy bits happen.

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Hi guys....

Let me just jump on in at that point and ask this:

What if Cullen isn't in the "take orders" position at all? What if part of the tension is a leadership struggle? For instance, our PC is simply part of a group and not necessarily assumed to be the leader? I say this in the nicest of ways, but the main bone of contention I had with Alistair is that he freely gave authority to a noob. He was the senior and out ranked them all yet let someone else lead without question. The plus is that it added to his character and story as a whole but I don't picture this being a seasoned Templar's temperment.

Anyway, I think it'd be fun to see some kind of scrambling for control of the group. Perhaps only to realize they're all fighting toward the same goal - or maybe not!

I think that would lead to some hot angry sex LOL!

But seriously though, I expect we will have this problem with Cassandra if she's a companion... so it could be one big power struggle if we add Cullen to the mix too... or they'd just have Cullen pull an Alistair and follow orders like a good little Templar lol.

If however, it was just a leadership struggle between the protagonist and Cullen, I imagine there would be a lot of conflicting orders at first and him second guessing and questioning everything the protagonist does that conflicts with the way he would do things. Over time however, I think they'd either end up working together nicely (if you friendship/romance him) or he'll continuely argue with you throughout the game and/or leave the group (if you rival/hate him.)

Uuuugh.... I'd love to find out someone in the group was a straight up traitor / spy. Juicy! But yes, I tend to agree with you as far as the constant bickering goes.... until the steamy bits happen.

I would love one of our companions to be a filthy traitor, one that you couldn't talk down/win over and turns out to be one of the main antagonists. At the same time I'd kinda like for Cullen to turn out to be the traitor who was sent as a sleeper agent but you manage to win him over, so that when it finally comes time for him to screw you over he turns on the ones that sent him to do it or risks his life to save you or whatever.

Modifié par LolaLei, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:48 .

[vieralynn]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Hi guys....

Let me just jump on in at that point and ask this:

What if Cullen isn't in the "take orders" position at all? What if part of the tension is a leadership struggle? For instance, our PC is simply part of a group and not necessarily assumed to be the leader? I say this in the nicest of ways, but the main bone of contention I had with Alistair is that he freely gave authority to a noob. He was the senior and out ranked them all yet let someone else lead without question. The plus is that it added to his character and story as a whole but I don't picture this being a seasoned Templar's temperment.

Anyway, I think it'd be fun to see some kind of scrambling for control of the group. Perhaps only to realize they're all fighting toward the same goal - or maybe not!

I think that would lead to some hot angry sex LOL!

But seriously though, I expect we will have this problem with Cassandra if she's a companion... so it could be one big power struggle if we add Cullen to the mix too... or they'd just have Cullen pull an Alistair and follow orders like a good little Templar lol.

If however, it was just a leadership struggle between the protagonist and Cullen, I imagine there would be a lot of conflicting orders at first and him second guessing and questioning everything the protagonist does that conflicts with the way he would do things. Over time however, I think they'd either end up working together nicely (if you friendship/romance him) or he'll continuely argue with you throughout the game and/or leave the group (if you rival/hate him.)

Uuuugh.... I'd love to find out someone in the group was a straight up traitor / spy. Juicy! But yes, I tend to agree with you as far as the constant bickering goes.... until the steamy bits happen.

I would really love to see a straight up traitor or spy among the companions. It would be so fitting if the story is about putting Thedas back together again after the war starts.

It would be great to see Cullen having internal power struggles with the PC depending on how the PC acts or who the PC is (and much potential steamy bits, indeed!).

Not sure I can see Cullen as a traitor all the time -- it would depend on the PC. Actually, it would be nice to have two potential traitors with their actions spying and traitorous actions being dependent on what the PC does. 

Modifié par vieralynn, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:50 .

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...
I agree about the PTSD (not that I have any particular knowledge about it, but it all sounds plausible to me), and that he's not a mage-hater. I think he's a mage-realist. My point previously was more that I don't recall him knowing Wilmod et al were dealing with mages and such, more that there was something "sinister" and suspicious  was going on with these young whipper snappers who don't follow all the rules, but it's been a while since I've looked at those details of the quest. I'll have to look at it again.

One of the investigate dialogue options in Wilmod's camp leads to Cullen saying this:

"Wilmod had never been fully… convinced of the Order's rules. Mages cannot be our friends. They must always be watched. I thought Wilmod might be meeting with some old friends who'd escaped the Circle"

Aha, that's right! Cool. Thanks.

[meanieweenie]

vieralynn wrote...

Not sure I can see Cullen as a traitor all the time -- it would depends on the PC. Actually, it would be nice to have two potential traitors with their actions spying and traitorous actions being dependent on what the PC does. 

Ah, now this would be fun!

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Not sure I can see Cullen as a traitor all the time -- it would depends on the PC. Actually, it would be nice to have two potential traitors with their actions spying and traitorous actions being dependent on what the PC does. 

Ah, now this would be fun!

Oooo that would be fun! And kinda like a twist on the Witcher two who makes you pick a potential companion to side with in a fight and depending on which one you side with, depends on what Act 2 is like.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

I think Cullen's initial reaction to joining a mage protagonist would probably be fine to start off with (because he'd be oblivious to the fact that he/she is a mage), until we use our powers for the first time and he'll be like "wtf, you're a mage?! Get back in the Circle!"

OMG. When I first read this, all I could hear in my head was, "You're a woman? Get back in the kitchen!" Jeesh, have I been reading too many feminist manifestos this week or what??

Of course, back to Cullen... this would be even more interesting since... there are no Circles anymore. Heh.Talk about a struggle for our former templar.

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Not sure I can see Cullen as a traitor all the time -- it would depends on the PC. Actually, it would be nice to have two potential traitors with their actions spying and traitorous actions being dependent on what the PC does. 

Ah, now this would be fun!

Oooo that would be fun! And kinda like a twist on the Witcher two who makes you pick a potential companion to side with in a fight and depending on which one you side with, depends on what Act 2 is like.

Dang... The Witcher 2.... that's got some spicy to it now, doesn't it? lol I must say, I was very surprised at how... graphic some of those scenes were. (Not in a bad way, mind you, since I'm a big fat perv. LOL)

[LolaLei]

Something else that would be cool, is if you pick what side you want to be on during the early stages of Act 1, so for example, say you had to either pick the Divine or whoevers incharge of the rebel Templars. If you side with the divine then Cullen wouldn't be the one sent to sabotage your mission it would be one of the other companions, but if you sided with the Templar rebellion then he'd be the one to **** you over (potentially), perhaps both of which could be influenced to side with you depending on how you treat them (kinda like the Hardening process in DA:O but more indepth.)

I wonder if who you sided with in DA2 will reflect on what Cullen is like to begin with in DA3? Like, maybe if you sided with the mages then he'll be part of the rebel Templars, but if you sided with the Templars then he'll be on the Divines side.

[R2s Muse]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Hi guys....

Let me just jump on in at that point and ask this:

What if Cullen isn't in the "take orders" position at all? What if part of the tension is a leadership struggle? For instance, our PC is simply part of a group and not necessarily assumed to be the leader? I say this in the nicest of ways, but the main bone of contention I had with Alistair is that he freely gave authority to a noob. He was the senior and out ranked them all yet let someone else lead without question. The plus is that it added to his character and story as a whole but I don't picture this being a seasoned Templar's temperment.

Anyway, I think it'd be fun to see some kind of scrambling for control of the group. Perhaps only to realize they're all fighting toward the same goal - or maybe not!

You know, thanks for mentioning this, meanie, because that always bugged me about Alistair as well. It was a bit too much of a plot device to give the player agency. I think they'll have the same problem with someone like Cullen (or as mentioned, Cassandra) in your party. Folks who are older -- i.e. much more experienced, much higher level -- following around a greenhorn. So, internal power struggles would be the perfect way to make it more natural.

I keep  wondering what would make him "follow." It could be something like PC and her group have goal X, and Cullen has his own goal Y, but doesn't want to go off on his own for whatever reason. So, he agrees to tag along with her and her group... then let the leadership struggles and back-seat driving ensue.

Also, like the idea of having a traitor in the group... as I think Lola you've brought up before...? I think it would be too hard if it were your LI, but could still be interesting... just too much possibility for frakking it up and pissing off the players, tho, IMO.

[meanieweenie]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I think Cullen's initial reaction to joining a mage protagonist would probably be fine to start off with (because he'd be oblivious to the fact that he/she is a mage), until we use our powers for the first time and he'll be like "wtf, you're a mage?! Get back in the Circle!"

OMG. When I first read this, all I could hear in my head was, "You're a woman? Get back in the kitchen!" Jeesh, have I been reading too many feminist manifestos this week or what??

Of course, back to Cullen... this would be even more interesting since... there are no Circles anymore. Heh.Talk about a struggle for our former templar.

Hillarious! This is totally off topic but...  you should've seen the FB pic one of my knuckle draggin' cousins posted recently on FB! The fusillade of insults from my female family members that followed were a site to behold. I told his wife not to give him too hard a time because she'd make his vagina hurt. LOL

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Not sure I can see Cullen as a traitor all the time -- it would depends on the PC. Actually, it would be nice to have two potential traitors with their actions spying and traitorous actions being dependent on what the PC does. 

Ah, now this would be fun!

Oooo that would be fun! And kinda like a twist on the Witcher two who makes you pick a potential companion to side with in a fight and depending on which one you side with, depends on what Act 2 is like.

Dang... The Witcher 2.... that's got some spicy to it now, doesn't it? lol I must say, I was very surprised at how... graphic some of those scenes were. (Not in a bad way, mind you, since I'm a big fat perv. LOL)

LOL aren't they just! I've been running around shagging anyone that'll have him just to see which one is the most graphic!

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Something else that would be cool, is if you pick what side you want to be on during the early stages of Act 1, so for example, say you had to either pick the Divine or whoevers incharge of the rebel Templars. If you side with the divine then Cullen wouldn't be the one sent to sabotage your mission it would be one of the other companions, but if you sided with the Templar rebellion then he'd be the one to **** you over (potentially), perhaps both of which could be influenced to side with you depending on how you treat them (kinda like the Hardening process in DA:O but more indepth.)

I wonder if who you sided with in DA2 will reflect on what Cullen is like to begin with in DA3? Like, maybe if you sided with the mages then he'll be part of the rebel Templars, but if you sided with the Templars then he'll be on the Divines side.

Ooh, I like these ideas. I'd been thinking before the two traitor thing would be interesting if you suspected both, but one was only a red herring. But, allowing the player's actions to influence who does what would be very interesting. Probably in some cases too many differences for the devs to realistically devote the resources. Like in the latter example of your Hawke's choice determining Cullen's affiliation in DA3, he'd basically have to have completely different dialogue options for each path. BUT I could see Hawke's choice changing Cullen's backstory for what happened between DA2 & DA3. Like, if she was pro-mage he was court marshaled, but if she was pro-templar, he got promoted or something.

[R2s Muse]

meanieweenie wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I think Cullen's initial reaction to joining a mage protagonist would probably be fine to start off with (because he'd be oblivious to the fact that he/she is a mage), until we use our powers for the first time and he'll be like "wtf, you're a mage?! Get back in the Circle!"

OMG. When I first read this, all I could hear in my head was, "You're a woman? Get back in the kitchen!" Jeesh, have I been reading too many feminist manifestos this week or what??

Of course, back to Cullen... this would be even more interesting since... there are no Circles anymore. Heh.Talk about a struggle for our former templar.

Hillarious! This is totally off topic but...  you should've seen the FB pic one of my knuckle draggin' cousins posted recently on FB! The fusillade of insults from my female family members that followed were a site to behold. I told his wife not to give him too hard a time because she'd make his vagina hurt. LOL

Oh dear... now I can only imagine... Yeah, there's been a bit of that going around. Like did you guys hear about this whole twitter debacle over Felicia Day (see! sorta DA related!)? Egad.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

This brings me nicely onto a question:

What do you think Cullens initial reaction will be to

A) Having to essentially take orders from a mage (especially a pretty female mage)

There being mages in our party

What do you think his vocal reaction (and inner introspective reaction) will be.

Hi guys....

Let me just jump on in at that point and ask this:

What if Cullen isn't in the "take orders" position at all? What if part of the tension is a leadership struggle? For instance, our PC is simply part of a group and not necessarily assumed to be the leader? I say this in the nicest of ways, but the main bone of contention I had with Alistair is that he freely gave authority to a noob. He was the senior and out ranked them all yet let someone else lead without question. The plus is that it added to his character and story as a whole but I don't picture this being a seasoned Templar's temperment.

Anyway, I think it'd be fun to see some kind of scrambling for control of the group. Perhaps only to realize they're all fighting toward the same goal - or maybe not!

You know, thanks for mentioning this, meanie, because that always bugged me about Alistair as well. It was a bit too much of a plot device to give the player agency. I think they'll have the same problem with someone like Cullen (or as mentioned, Cassandra) in your party. Folks who are older -- i.e. much more experienced, much higher level -- following around a greenhorn. So, internal power struggles would be the perfect way to make it more natural.

I keep  wondering what would make him "follow." It could be something like PC and her group have goal X, and Cullen has his own goal Y, but doesn't want to go off on his own for whatever reason. So, he agrees to tag along with her and her group... then let the leadership struggles and back-seat driving ensue.

Also, like the idea of having a traitor in the group... as I think Lola you've brought up before...? I think it would be too hard if it were your LI, but could still be interesting... just too much possibility for frakking it up and pissing off the players, tho, IMO.

I think he'd follow the protagonist if the Divine or Cassandra who has power over the Templars for being a Seeker has specifically ordered him to. I don't think he'd be happy about it but we'd just have to remind him that he was a complete noob when he became the Knight-Captain of Kirkwall (and he knows how hard that was) so he'll just have to put up or shut up LOL!

Alternatively, perhaps if there was an order put out to kill him then he'd need a group of skilled fighters to protect him, so running with our protagonist would present the perfect opportunity for him to save his own arse, not realising what he's letting himself in for.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Not sure I can see Cullen as a traitor all the time -- it would depends on the PC. Actually, it would be nice to have two potential traitors with their actions spying and traitorous actions being dependent on what the PC does. 

Ah, now this would be fun!

Oooo that would be fun! And kinda like a twist on the Witcher two who makes you pick a potential companion to side with in a fight and depending on which one you side with, depends on what Act 2 is like.

Dang... The Witcher 2.... that's got some spicy to it now, doesn't it? lol I must say, I was very surprised at how... graphic some of those scenes were. (Not in a bad way, mind you, since I'm a big fat perv. LOL)

LOL aren't they just! I've been running around shagging anyone that'll have him just to see which one is the most graphic!

Hmm... that bad huh? I see some youtubing in my future...