89415 réponses à ce sujet

[littlenikki]

motomotogirl wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I'm so excited to get to know Viv. There's really never been a completely pro-circle companion/character, well except for that one mage in Witch Hunt. His love of the circle was more out of fear than any sort of loyalty, which it seems Vivienne has for it. Wynne was kinda on the fence it seems. 

I don't know. I think Wynne was very pro-circle. She may have had her criticisms, but ultimately, she felt the system worked and she championed it. 

Vivienne being so incredibly pro-circle makes me disposed to not like her... but I don't doubt her character will be rich and inspire all kinds of responses from me.

I only say Wynne was on the fence because she expresses her disdain for the circle in her younger days. She comes off as someone that just accepts that the circle is needed. I feel like a character that is extremely pro circle, even if they had doubted it in the past, wouldn't admit it freely and instead build the circle up to be something magnificent. 

Viv will probably end up bugging the crap out of me sometimes, but I'm still excited to see how they are going to handle it. She seems very confident, which will probably come across as arrogance at times. 

Edit: Wynne also turns down the chance of becoming first enchanter, where Vivienne seems to strive for it. I'm not sure about if you save the Circle in Origins, but if you annul it Gregoir offers the position to Wynne, which she declines to follow the Warden around. If she really loved the Circle I think she would have gone back after the Blight, instead of continuing to travel w/ Shale.

Modifié par littlenikki, 02 septembre 2013 - 04:05 .

[CuriousArtemis]

VampOrchid wrote...

@ Moto who knows that's the mystery that is Morrigan lol.

Personally, Morrigan's the one that ground my gears. I'm not a fan of her character... I honestly feel she's a little one note. Not to diss my hero, DG, or anything. But she's just not my favorite. So I'm hoping against hope that she wont' have much to do with the plot if I so choose. So no noble Orlesian marriages, please lol (But I do hope that if those who love her want to use her, that they can.)

[CuriousArtemis]

littlenikki wrote...

I only say Wynne was on the fence because she expresses her disdain for the circle in her younger days. She comes off as someone that just accepts that the circle is needed. I feel like a character that is extremely pro circle, even if they had doubted it in the past, wouldn't admit it freely and instead build the circle up to be something magnificent. 

Viv will probably end up bugging the crap out of me sometimes, but I'm still excited to see how they are going to handle it. She seems very confident, which will probably come across as arrogance at times. 

Edit: Wynne also turns down the chance of becoming first enchanter, where Vivienne seems to strive for it. I'm not sure about if you save the Circle in Origins, but if you annul it Gregoir offers the position to Wynne, which she declines to follow the Warden around. If she really loved the Circle I think she would have gone back after the Blight, instead of continuing to travel w/ Shale.

Wynne definitely believes in the Circle. The Circle allows her to travel, after all. She simply benefits from being a well-behaved mage and being given a longer leash. She is interested in travel as opposed to leadership; doesn't mean she doesn't support the Circle and the overall "system."

But Yeah. Perhaps Vivienne's Circle experience was different from what we're used to. Perhaps she retained contact with her family. Perhaps she herself is from a noble family and was treated as such from day one at the Circle. Maybe she was always groomed for a leadership position and had other "lesser" mages fawning at her feet since she was a teenager. 

[littlenikki]

motomotogirl wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I only say Wynne was on the fence because she expresses her disdain for the circle in her younger days. She comes off as someone that just accepts that the circle is needed. I feel like a character that is extremely pro circle, even if they had doubted it in the past, wouldn't admit it freely and instead build the circle up to be something magnificent. 

Viv will probably end up bugging the crap out of me sometimes, but I'm still excited to see how they are going to handle it. She seems very confident, which will probably come across as arrogance at times. 

Edit: Wynne also turns down the chance of becoming first enchanter, where Vivienne seems to strive for it. I'm not sure about if you save the Circle in Origins, but if you annul it Gregoir offers the position to Wynne, which she declines to follow the Warden around. If she really loved the Circle I think she would have gone back after the Blight, instead of continuing to travel w/ Shale.

Wynne definitely believes in the Circle. The Circle allows her to travel, after all. She simply benefits from being a well-behaved mage and being given a longer leash. She is interested in travel as opposed to leadership; doesn't mean she doesn't support the Circle and the overall "system."

But Yeah. Perhaps Vivienne's Circle experience was different from what we're used to. Perhaps she retained contact with her family. Perhaps she herself is from a noble family and was treated as such from day one at the Circle. Maybe she was always groomed for a leadership position and had other "lesser" mages fawning at her feet since she was a teenager. 

That's true, Wynne just always came off as disinterested in the Circle to me, but I really didn't get to know her that much. After she started bad-mouthing Alistair and my Warden's relationship, and then turns around and flirts w/ him I was like "nu uh old woman!" 

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Or another scenario I've been playing with. I keep trying to imagine what happens to the Circles (I mean, the physical buildings) after the mages declare their independence. I've been thinking that, if I were the templars bent on dealing with the mage thread as I see fit, I would keep them and use them as prisons/strongholds. But, what if there are mages who don't believe in the whole independence thing and so hung on at the Circle, continuing their way of life? What if someone like Vivienne took over leadership at the White Spire after Adrian et al. fled into the wilderness? So, regardless of what the mages did at Andoral's Reach, as far as Vivienne's concerned, she's First Enchanter of the Spire...?

Anyhoo, just a theory I've been playing with.

Perhaps it's a political move? They know Vivienne supports the circle, and the majority of the mages wanna be completely free, right? So putting Adrian in as First Enchanter instead works more in the favour of those who want freedom. Chances are Vivi was a big threat.

[LolaLei]

littlenikki wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I only say Wynne was on the fence because she expresses her disdain for the circle in her younger days. She comes off as someone that just accepts that the circle is needed. I feel like a character that is extremely pro circle, even if they had doubted it in the past, wouldn't admit it freely and instead build the circle up to be something magnificent. 

Viv will probably end up bugging the crap out of me sometimes, but I'm still excited to see how they are going to handle it. She seems very confident, which will probably come across as arrogance at times. 

Edit: Wynne also turns down the chance of becoming first enchanter, where Vivienne seems to strive for it. I'm not sure about if you save the Circle in Origins, but if you annul it Gregoir offers the position to Wynne, which she declines to follow the Warden around. If she really loved the Circle I think she would have gone back after the Blight, instead of continuing to travel w/ Shale.

Wynne definitely believes in the Circle. The Circle allows her to travel, after all. She simply benefits from being a well-behaved mage and being given a longer leash. She is interested in travel as opposed to leadership; doesn't mean she doesn't support the Circle and the overall "system."

But Yeah. Perhaps Vivienne's Circle experience was different from what we're used to. Perhaps she retained contact with her family. Perhaps she herself is from a noble family and was treated as such from day one at the Circle. Maybe she was always groomed for a leadership position and had other "lesser" mages fawning at her feet since she was a teenager. 

That's true, Wynne just always came off as disinterested in the Circle to me, but I really didn't get to know her that much. After she started bad-mouthing Alistair and my Warden's relationship, and then turns around and flirts w/ him I was like "nu uh old woman!" 

LMFAO! :lol:

[CuriousArtemis]

lol I don't recall Wynne flirting with Alistair. Does that only happen if you're involved with him?

[littlenikki]

motomotogirl wrote...

lol I don't recall Wynne flirting with Alistair. Does that only happen if you're involved with him?

She does in the Return to Ostagar DLC, and a tiny bit in the main game. Mostly just playful teasing, but still I was like "Dudelady! You just got on me for possibly breaking his heart, and now you're moving in? F*ck you!"

[LolaLei]

littlenikki wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

lol I don't recall Wynne flirting with Alistair. Does that only happen if you're involved with him?

She does in the Return to Ostagar DLC, and a tiny bit in the main game. Mostly just playful teasing, but still I was like "Dudelady! You just got on me for possibly breaking his heart, and now you're moving in? F*ck you!"

I bet she was a right go'er in her day! 

[Chiantirose1982]

motomotogirl wrote...

lol I don't recall Wynne flirting with Alistair. Does that only happen if you're involved with him?

She only teases him, lol. At least that's how I saw it. Alistair always thinks of her a grandmotherly until she tells him that they had "relations" between the mages in the Circle, then it kinda changes. There is also this conversation  at Ostagar DLC

• Alistair: There it is, the last of them.
• Wynne: (sigh) It has been a long day. By the lines around your eyes I dare say you look as old as I.
• Alistair: And if I may say so, milady, you appear to be getting younger by the day.
• Wynne: Be careful who you flirt with, young man. (chuckle) When you wake up beside me tomorrow morning I'll be back to reminding you of your grandmother.
• Alistair: Beside you?
• Wynne: You heard what I said. It would not be the first time I woke to a younger man in my bed.
• Alistair: Are all women this evil and conniving when they grow old?
• Wynne: Just me, my dear. (chuckle) Just me.

[Danny Boy 7]

VampOrchid wrote...

@Danny. what if her kid marries the kid of the current royal orlais family

As far as we know Celene doesn't have one, but another family member could...it would require a coup of sorts however.

[Danny Boy 7]

motomotogirl wrote...

lol I don't recall Wynne flirting with Alistair. Does that only happen if you're involved with him?

Nah it's one of their banters. She talks about "waking up next to him". I also kind of think they were just being playful and got a little flirty with one another.

Personally I told her to mind hers when she talked about Morrigan...it was Alistair who had the biggest beef in my pt though. Wynne eventually defended me and Morrigan's relationship to Alistair which I thought was a nice change.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Or another scenario I've been playing with. I keep trying to imagine what happens to the Circles (I mean, the physical buildings) after the mages declare their independence. I've been thinking that, if I were the templars bent on dealing with the mage thread as I see fit, I would keep them and use them as prisons/strongholds. But, what if there are mages who don't believe in the whole independence thing and so hung on at the Circle, continuing their way of life? What if someone like Vivienne took over leadership at the White Spire after Adrian et al. fled into the wilderness? So, regardless of what the mages did at Andoral's Reach, as far as Vivienne's concerned, she's First Enchanter of the Spire...?

Anyhoo, just a theory I've been playing with.

Perhaps it's a political move? They know Vivienne supports the circle, and the majority of the mages wanna be completely free, right? So putting Adrian in as First Enchanter instead works more in the favour of those who want freedom. Chances are Vivi was a big threat.

Could be. I just wonder about someone who's allegedly so pro-circle fleeting the Circle with the rest of them. But really, we just need them to tell us more about what happened after the showdown at the White Spire.

[littlenikki]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Or another scenario I've been playing with. I keep trying to imagine what happens to the Circles (I mean, the physical buildings) after the mages declare their independence. I've been thinking that, if I were the templars bent on dealing with the mage thread as I see fit, I would keep them and use them as prisons/strongholds. But, what if there are mages who don't believe in the whole independence thing and so hung on at the Circle, continuing their way of life? What if someone like Vivienne took over leadership at the White Spire after Adrian et al. fled into the wilderness? So, regardless of what the mages did at Andoral's Reach, as far as Vivienne's concerned, she's First Enchanter of the Spire...?

Anyhoo, just a theory I've been playing with.

Perhaps it's a political move? They know Vivienne supports the circle, and the majority of the mages wanna be completely free, right? So putting Adrian in as First Enchanter instead works more in the favour of those who want freedom. Chances are Vivi was a big threat.

Could be. I just wonder about someone who's allegedly so pro-circle fleeting the Circle with the rest of them. But really, we just need them to tell us more about what happened after the showdown at the White Spire.

Adrian was the first enchanter!?! I really have to finish that book. I think I'm at the part where they just get back to Orlais and see all the sh*t that's goin down.

[R2s Muse]

littlenikki wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I only say Wynne was on the fence because she expresses her disdain for the circle in her younger days. She comes off as someone that just accepts that the circle is needed. I feel like a character that is extremely pro circle, even if they had doubted it in the past, wouldn't admit it freely and instead build the circle up to be something magnificent. 

Viv will probably end up bugging the crap out of me sometimes, but I'm still excited to see how they are going to handle it. She seems very confident, which will probably come across as arrogance at times. 

Edit: Wynne also turns down the chance of becoming first enchanter, where Vivienne seems to strive for it. I'm not sure about if you save the Circle in Origins, but if you annul it Gregoir offers the position to Wynne, which she declines to follow the Warden around. If she really loved the Circle I think she would have gone back after the Blight, instead of continuing to travel w/ Shale.

Wynne definitely believes in the Circle. The Circle allows her to travel, after all. She simply benefits from being a well-behaved mage and being given a longer leash. She is interested in travel as opposed to leadership; doesn't mean she doesn't support the Circle and the overall "system."

But Yeah. Perhaps Vivienne's Circle experience was different from what we're used to. Perhaps she retained contact with her family. Perhaps she herself is from a noble family and was treated as such from day one at the Circle. Maybe she was always groomed for a leadership position and had other "lesser" mages fawning at her feet since she was a teenager. 

That's true, Wynne just always came off as disinterested in the Circle to me, but I really didn't get to know her that much. After she started bad-mouthing Alistair and my Warden's relationship, and then turns around and flirts w/ him I was like "nu uh old woman!" 

Yeah, she didn't seem particularly pro-circle to me during the game. But I was struck by her apparent actions after DA:O, recounted in Asunder, where she was the one who spoke out against mage freedom at that big meeting in Cumberland. Almost like she was a Circle apologist at the point. I thought it was a very interesting plot point in the book, actually, since it seemed that she was almost a bit of a pariah amongst the mages for that.

[R2s Muse]

littlenikki wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Or another scenario I've been playing with. I keep trying to imagine what happens to the Circles (I mean, the physical buildings) after the mages declare their independence. I've been thinking that, if I were the templars bent on dealing with the mage thread as I see fit, I would keep them and use them as prisons/strongholds. But, what if there are mages who don't believe in the whole independence thing and so hung on at the Circle, continuing their way of life? What if someone like Vivienne took over leadership at the White Spire after Adrian et al. fled into the wilderness? So, regardless of what the mages did at Andoral's Reach, as far as Vivienne's concerned, she's First Enchanter of the Spire...?

Anyhoo, just a theory I've been playing with.

Perhaps it's a political move? They know Vivienne supports the circle, and the majority of the mages wanna be completely free, right? So putting Adrian in as First Enchanter instead works more in the favour of those who want freedom. Chances are Vivi was a big threat.

Could be. I just wonder about someone who's allegedly so pro-circle fleeting the Circle with the rest of them. But really, we just need them to tell us more about what happened after the showdown at the White Spire.

Adrian was the first enchanter!?! I really have to finish that book. I think I'm at the part where they just get back to Orlais and see all the sh*t that's goin down.

D'oh! Um, spoiler alert... Sorry.

[littlenikki]

Haha that's alright. I've taken way too long to finish the book anyway.

[CuriousArtemis]

R2s Muse wrote...

Yeah, she didn't seem particularly pro-circle to me during the game. But I was struck by her apparent actions after DA:O, recounted in Asunder, where she was the one who spoke out against mage freedom at that big meeting in Cumberland. Almost like she was a Circle apologist at the point. I thought it was a very interesting plot point in the book, actually, since it seemed that she was almost a bit of a pariah amongst the mages for that. 

That's kind of amazing; I mean, it's really all about perspective! Because I was not remotely surprised by Wynne's stance in Asunder; I thought it was in line with how she usually talked about the Circle. 

Asunder did such an awesome job at portraying the intricacies of Circle politices. I mean I felt I supported neither Wynne nor Adrian. But yet something had to be done. Gahhh.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 02 septembre 2013 - 04:38 .

[R2s Muse]

motomotogirl wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Yeah, she didn't seem particularly pro-circle to me during the game. But I was struck by her apparent actions after DA:O, recounted in Asunder, where she was the one who spoke out against mage freedom at that big meeting in Cumberland. Almost like she was a Circle apologist at the point. I thought it was a very interesting plot point in the book, actually, since it seemed that she was almost a bit of a pariah amongst the mages for that. 

That's kind of amazing; I mean, it's really all about perspective! Because I was not remotely surprised by Wynne's stance in Asunder; I thought it was in line with how she usually talked about the Circle. 

Asunder did such an awesome job at portraying the intricacies of Circle politices. I mean I felt I supported neither Wynne nor Adrian. But yet something had to be done. Gahhh.

Yeah, I agree that we haven't seen many moderate stances yet (so hopefully we'll see those in DA:I!). 

And, on Wynne in DA:O... hmm, good point!  I guess I didn't think she was pro or con Circle... so sort of moderate. She told us about the important things the Circle did, but also the terrible things, like giving up her child. It was also hard for me to see where she really stood, tho, given her priviledged status as a Circle mage who seems to be able to leave and do whatever she wants.

[Dirgegun]

Wynne was teasing the hell out of Alistair more than actually pursuing him-- she teases him a lot, after all. I also think what she had to say about the relationship was an incredibly fair criticism given the circumstances, and she does retract it later, while, at the same time, giving an incredibly fair warning. Which ends up being potentially very, very important given what happens with the Landsmeet/Dark Ritual/Achedemon. 

Wynne was just looking out for you and Alistair.

Um...

...I'll just go to my Wynne loving corner. Don't mind me.  

[littlenikki]

I know she was just teasing, never thought she was actually pursuing him. I was just kidding around about it.

My issues w/ Wynne are more that her character doesn't really appeal to me. Just a personal opinion, but I just couldn't really ever focus on her stories and conversations. In Asunder she becomes a bit more interesting to me, but my prejudice from Origins is kinda hard to shake.

[CuriousArtemis]

Dirgegun wrote...
...I'll just go to my Wynne loving corner. Don't mind me.  

LOL... I like Wynne!! I like her more than Morrigan and Leliana and Oghren. But less than Alistair and Zevran and Sten. So she's like Dog level LOL

I also don't think she was flirting with Alistair... at all (from the examples y'all gave; there could be others I missed). She wouldn't say "No" if he showed up in her tent. But she knows he's not going to show up. Alistair is as in danger of ending up in Wynne's bed as he is in Zevran's. And remember, Zevran flirts with him, too.

Also things just played out differently for me since I didn't romance Alistair. Zevran flirts with her, not the other way around. And she's not interested. And when she warns my Warden away from Zevran, she's really kind about it, doesn't say anything mean about Zevran. Just points out that Wardens often don't have the luxury to love. And after awhile, she admits she was wrong, and that their relationship is really lovely.

Alistair is the one who's kind of a jerk about it lol but my Warden loves him anyway. Just looking out for his bro, I guess, warning him away from "that assassin."

My favorite part though is when he expresses concern about Morrigan, and my Warden is like, I agree, she's nuts! Alistair likes that A LOT lol

[Dirgegun]

littlenikki wrote...

I know she was just teasing, never thought she was actually pursuing him. I was just kidding around about it.

My issues w/ Wynne are more that her character doesn't really appeal to me. Just a personal opinion, but I just couldn't really ever focus on her stories and conversations. In Asunder she becomes a bit more interesting to me, but my prejudice from Origins is kinda hard to shake.

Ah, I feel really lucky in how I've adored every single companion we've had in Dragon Age. No one rubbed me the wrong way or put me off, so I just wanted to know everything about them and loved and listened to everything they said...

Makes picking who I want in my party damn hard, though. 

[littlenikki]

Dirgegun wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I know she was just teasing, never thought she was actually pursuing him. I was just kidding around about it.

My issues w/ Wynne are more that her character doesn't really appeal to me. Just a personal opinion, but I just couldn't really ever focus on her stories and conversations. In Asunder she becomes a bit more interesting to me, but my prejudice from Origins is kinda hard to shake.

Ah, I feel really lucky in how I've adored every single companion we've had in Dragon Age. No one rubbed me the wrong way or put me off, so I just wanted to know everything about them and loved and listened to everything they said...

Makes picking who I want in my party damn hard, though. 

I like most of them, especially the first time around. On the third and fourth playthroughs there were certain characters that I just had to skip over the convos w/. Wynne and Leliana mostly. Leliana's ninjamance still freaks me the h*ll out ("You're with Alistair! How could you!?!" )

[Dirgegun]

motomotogirl wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...
...I'll just go to my Wynne loving corner. Don't mind me.  

LOL... I like Wynne!! I like her more than Morrigan and Leliana and Oghren. But less than Alistair and Zevran and Sten. So she's like Dog level LOL

I also don't think she was flirting with Alistair... at all (from the examples y'all gave; there could be others I missed). She wouldn't say "No" if he showed up in her tent. But she knows he's not going to show up. Alistair is as in danger of ending up in Wynne's bed as he is in Zevran's. And remember, Zevran flirts with him, too.

Also things just played out differently for me since I didn't romance Alistair. Zevran flirts with her, not the other way around. And she's not interested. And when she warns my Warden away from Zevran, she's really kind about it, doesn't say anything mean about Zevran. Just points out that Wardens often don't have the luxury to love. And after awhile, she admits she was wrong, and that their relationship is really lovely.

Alistair is the one who's kind of a jerk about it lol but my Warden loves him anyway. Just looking out for his bro, I guess, warning him away from "that assassin."

My favorite part though is when he expresses concern about Morrigan, and my Warden is like, I agree, she's nuts! Alistair likes that A LOT lol

I actually really liked that Wynne talked so seriously about the relationship, because it actually got me thinking more about the game and the situation the Warden was in, and when things started heading down a path that made Wynne's warning seem incredibly relavent....

Well, I was torn between being thankful that she prepared me, and worried sick that I couldn't fix it. Which I didn't in the first playthrough. Seeing Alistair ended up dumping my arse because I made him king and then I ended up dead because I didn't do the ritual.