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The Official Knight-Captain Cullen Discussion thread 2.0.


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#6426
LolaLei

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Xilizhra wrote...


Out of curiosity again, is there any particular reason why you guys came in here to talk about him when you dislike him so much? Surely you wouldn't wanna waste your time talking about it? Or did you just fancy a debate?

I wanted to ask about what his role might be and it snowballed from there.


What sort of role do you think/feel he should play in DA3 if they do bring him back? I don't often get to ask non-Cullen supporters that type of question, so I'd be interested to hear your point of view/preferences.

#6427
Xilizhra

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LolaLei wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


Out of curiosity again, is there any particular reason why you guys came in here to talk about him when you dislike him so much? Surely you wouldn't wanna waste your time talking about it? Or did you just fancy a debate?

I wanted to ask about what his role might be and it snowballed from there.


What sort of role do you think/feel he should play in DA3 if they do bring him back? I don't often get to ask non-Cullen supporters that type of question, so I'd be interested to hear your point of view/preferences.

For now, I'm reserving judgment. I don't like to cast down people out of hand, so as of now, I'm waiting and seeing.

#6428
Guest_mayrabgood_*

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I found this pic in the old Cullen thread. I love how he looks.

Image IPB
"Hold on. Stop right there! How could you not like this face....and this body? I will smite you for that."



LOL:lol: that is what he is saying in the picture.

Modifié par mayrabgood, 17 juillet 2012 - 06:05 .


#6429
PizzaThe Hutt

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erilben wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Is it bad writing? Even Carver proves evil enough to follow it if he's a templar. The Order just breeds it in its culture, and it seems you need to leave altogether to escape it.


I guess it depends on who you side with then. Here's Cullen defending the 3 Mages from Annulment if you side with the Templars, during this scenario she hasn't announced the Rite of Annulment until that very moment:




Meredith invokes the Annulment long before this. She does it right after Anders blows up the chantry, and then she forces you to pick a side.

But that cutscene you linked is the one that made me think Cullen is a coward. I picked the "it's not my decision-- I'm not the knight-commander". Of course, Meredith agrees with this. Cullen responds by saying/doing nothing while Meredith kills the mages. The mages are only saved if Hawke stands up to Meredith. Cullen is too cowardly to do anything.



I don't think what Cullen was doing was cowardly at all, he was acting within his rank as he was taught to do.  He may have voiced his opinion but that was pretty much it rank-wise, ultimately whatever actions or orders were given was up to his superior officer.  When the Champion decides to spare them he ordered the lower ranked templars to follow what Hawke decides and, of course, Meredith gets mad.  As I understand it, Hawke and Meredith pretty much have the same amount of influence and Meredith wasn't really helping things since her particular brand of crazy was showing up hardcore in the act 3.     

#6430
R2s Muse

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[apologies in advance for Wall o' text]

The real trouble with Cullen's role in the DA2 main storyline is that he is not the PC and is written such that he is influenced by the PC's actions. So, if someone is playing like a zealot for either side, he'll end up supporting some of those decisions in order to give you, the player, agency. I tend to think of it like the hardening process from DA:O, since he's so malleable. For example, I view the pro-templar moment when the three mages surrender as the moment where Hawke can decide if she's going to support full Annulment, or if she's still trying to save as many people as possible. That has to be her decision, not Cullen's. At that point, Cullen still needs that input and encouragement from Hawke to do the right thing. If Hawke asks to hear what he thinks, you can see how his perspective is different from Meredith's or even different from his own when he was in Ferelden. If Hawke chooses to spare the mages, Cullen tells his men to follow Hawke instead of Meredith and the mutiny in some sense begins. If Hawke does not, then he follows Meredith, as Pizza said.

Nevertheless, independent of the PC's choices, Cullen continually voices concerns and doubts about Meredith's path, telling the PC in Act 3 that he no longer knows if following Meredith is the same as following the Order. In the final moments of the Last Straw, he also voices concerns about neither side being in the right. So he is struggling with what is right, even if he needs Hawke to do anything active.

So, yes, he follows his duty and his superiors until the end, as far as what we see in-game. Some can fault him for this or also recognize how little he could really do before the end. He's not the hero of the story, Hawke is. So, defying Meredith earlier would have just removed him from the story... like Thrask et al., leaving no one from the "establishment" to side with Hawke and demonstrate the more moderate path in the end. i.e Gaider's "voice of sanity"

Finally, regardless of how hardcore the player makes him throughout the game, no matter what, he does stand up to Meredith in the end. And, not just because he's protecting Hawke, but because what Meredith's doing is not what the Order stands for in his view. So, like others have said, he's not the perfect character. He doesn't swoop in and save the day at the earliest opportunity. He's not the hero. He tries to follow his duty, and through the course of the game, I believe, his understanding of that duty evolves.

This is what I think makes him so interesting, and what's more,  an interesting inclusion in the next game. Given his views on the Order, which side does he choose? Given his feeling that the Right of Annulment should be used only when all is lost... would he support full scale slaughter of all mages? Given that his whole life has been defined by duty, what does he do when that duty is gone or muddied? Since before DA2 came out they have been setting up the Templar Order for a shake up, noting that the organization itself may need to change. Cullen is the perfect character to help explore this evolution, since his own path in some sense mirrors this.

#6431
R2s Muse

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And, since this image just couldn't get out of my head... some bad photoshopping!

Image IPB

#6432
R2s Muse

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And, a few slightly more attractive Cullens.

Image IPB

#6433
Melca36

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One of my most popular screenshots according to the stats.


Image IPB

Modifié par Melca36, 18 juillet 2012 - 01:13 .


#6434
MissRedZelda

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Love the hair on the PC.

My favourite mod in the game. Makes me sad that he may not see her again, or have a chance with her, since my PC's with Alistair by that point. :-(

#6435
Melca36

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MissRedZelda wrote...

Love the hair on the PC.

My favourite mod in the game. Makes me sad that he may not see her again, or have a chance with her, since my PC's with Alistair by that point. :-(


I agree its one of the best mods ever done and it is poignant and sad. I've always been a sucker for angst. :wub:


Image IPB


Image IPB

Modifié par Melca36, 18 juillet 2012 - 09:50 .


#6436
MissRedZelda

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I've always headcannoned that they had a secret relationship. Well . . . "secret" is pushing it, since practically the whole Circle knew that Cullen and F!Amell had a thing for each other.

#6437
R2s Muse

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Melca36 wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

Love the hair on the PC.

My favourite mod in the game. Makes me sad that he may not see her again, or have a chance with her, since my PC's with Alistair by that point. :-(


I agree its one of the best mods ever done and it is poignant and sad. I've always been a sucker for angst. :wub:


Image IPB


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*sigh* This kiss really is something. Indeed, a well-done mod. It shows that you can let the kiss show without horrible clipping... to wonderful results! This also highlights to me how damn handsome DA:O Cullen can be, too. When I first played it, I could take him or leave him, but now... loverly. :bandit:

#6438
LolaLei

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Yeah, whoever made that mod done a fantastic job of it, I love how it looks like his bottom lip moves with the kiss as she pulls away.

#6439
MissRedZelda

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 I think it may have been DahliaLyn.
Anyway, off topic, but I think I came across a weird bug while playing Origins. I found Morrigan in my room after Riordan informed us of the slaying Archdemon thing, and Morrigan proceeded to tell me of the Drak Ritual. I accepted, but instead of letting me go find Alistair, it switched to a cutscene of her and my PC sleeping together!:huh:
Amusing, I'll admit, but . . .
A . . . solution, anyone? I'm afraid this might screw up the rest of my game.

#6440
LolaLei

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Is your Warden a female? 'Cause that would be hilarious!

#6441
MissRedZelda

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Yes, my Warden is female. It was amusing at first, but nothing I say is changing the end result, and it's getting annoying :-(

#6442
R2s Muse

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MissRedZelda wrote...

 I think it may have been DahliaLyn.
Anyway, off topic, but I think I came across a weird bug while playing Origins. I found Morrigan in my room after Riordan informed us of the slaying Archdemon thing, and Morrigan proceeded to tell me of the Drak Ritual. I accepted, but instead of letting me go find Alistair, it switched to a cutscene of her and my PC sleeping together!:huh:
Amusing, I'll admit, but . . .
A . . . solution, anyone? I'm afraid this might screw up the rest of my game.

I've never heard of that bug... but, yeah, if your Warden's female, then I'd chalk it up to a win!!  :P More seriously, dunno. Do you have mods installed? I wonder if you have a conflict. Anyway, I'd also be surprised if it totally screwed up your game, if you're planning on doing the ritual. I would think that would be more of an on/off thing... you chose ritual, so you will kill Archdemon and live. I don't think any of that changes if it's you or Alistair, does it?

EDIT: But sounds like some fun screenshots are in order!! :innocent:

Modifié par R2s Muse, 18 juillet 2012 - 01:45 .


#6443
R2s Muse

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Here's another beauty by Chenria! Poor, poor Cullen. :D

Image IPB

#6444
LolaLei

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Hehehe, well that saves Alistair a job! It'll probably be fine though, try it and find out.

#6445
MissRedZelda

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R2s Muse wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

 I think it may have been DahliaLyn.
Anyway, off topic, but I think I came across a weird bug while playing Origins. I found Morrigan in my room after Riordan informed us of the slaying Archdemon thing, and Morrigan proceeded to tell me of the Drak Ritual. I accepted, but instead of letting me go find Alistair, it switched to a cutscene of her and my PC sleeping together!:huh:
Amusing, I'll admit, but . . .
A . . . solution, anyone? I'm afraid this might screw up the rest of my game.

I've never heard of that bug... but, yeah, if your Warden's female, then I'd chalk it up to a win!!  :P More seriously, dunno. Do you have mods installed? I wonder if you have a conflict. Anyway, I'd also be surprised if it totally screwed up your game, if you're planning on doing the ritual. I would think that would be more of an on/off thing... you chose ritual, so you will kill Archdemon and live. I don't think any of that changes if it's you or Alistair, does it?

EDIT: But sounds like some fun screenshots are in order!! :innocent:


If I knew how to get screenshots, I would show you.

But no, I don't think my mods should conflict with the scene. They're mostly hair and eye mods, so they shouldn't be the problem. It's probably a bug that an official patch should fix. Hopefully.

#6446
R2s Muse

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MissRedZelda wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

 I think it may have been DahliaLyn.
Anyway, off topic, but I think I came across a weird bug while playing Origins. I found Morrigan in my room after Riordan informed us of the slaying Archdemon thing, and Morrigan proceeded to tell me of the Drak Ritual. I accepted, but instead of letting me go find Alistair, it switched to a cutscene of her and my PC sleeping together!:huh:
Amusing, I'll admit, but . . .
A . . . solution, anyone? I'm afraid this might screw up the rest of my game.

I've never heard of that bug... but, yeah, if your Warden's female, then I'd chalk it up to a win!!  :P More seriously, dunno. Do you have mods installed? I wonder if you have a conflict. Anyway, I'd also be surprised if it totally screwed up your game, if you're planning on doing the ritual. I would think that would be more of an on/off thing... you chose ritual, so you will kill Archdemon and live. I don't think any of that changes if it's you or Alistair, does it?

EDIT: But sounds like some fun screenshots are in order!! :innocent:


If I knew how to get screenshots, I would show you.

But no, I don't think my mods should conflict with the scene. They're mostly hair and eye mods, so they shouldn't be the problem. It's probably a bug that an official patch should fix. Hopefully.

Um, are they still patching DA:O??

#6447
LolaLei

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I hope so, i have two achievements that won't pop.

#6448
MissRedZelda

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No, was just gonna try patch 1.05. Well, I did, but my DAO is a Steam version, so it didn't work. Looks like I'm stuck with this damn bug :-(

#6449
Melca36

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Actually the mod is by Cmessaz who made the Cullen romance mod.

#6450
R2s Muse

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Melca36 wrote...

Actually the mod is by Cmessaz who made the Cullen romance mod.

Yes, but my understanding is that the cutscene of the kiss ("stolen kiss") was developed for cmessaz's mod by dahlialynn.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 18 juillet 2012 - 05:22 .