89415 réponses à ce sujet

[R2s Muse]

Everyone has their favorites. :shrug: Dunno why it's such a showstopper headline that Cullen has fans. We like him for reasons. Other folks don't like him for other reasons (and in some cases, the same reasons). Perhaps best to form one's own opinion instead of subject us to the magnifying glass for the eighteen millionth time.

(and yes, it's been a bad day. For a more civil answer: "What they said.")

Ugh. Now I'm feeling bad, but for the record the question of "Why do people like Cullen?" has been the subject of far too many threads, typically intended to other, skewer and lampoon Cullen fans, who on average tend to be female, all in the guise of learning about his character. It's just not something I can bring myself to address yet again except to suggest listening to the things he has to say through Acts 2 & 3 (not just the inflammatory things he says in Act 1, and not just the pro-mage side). There are some interesting conflicts going on with that character, particularly in how his views have evolved, which in turn make him interesting. How they may (or may not) continue to evolve in the wake of the dramatic changes in the Templar Order should prove even more interesting when we see him in DA:I.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 29 octobre 2013 - 11:16 .

[CuriousArtemis]

R2s Muse wrote...

Everyone has their favorites. :shrug: Dunno why it's such a showstopper headline that Cullen has fans. We like him for reasons. Other folks don't like him for other reasons (and in some cases, the same reasons). Perhaps best to form one's own opinion instead of subject us to the magnifying glass for the eighteen millionth time.

(and yes, it's been a bad day. For a more civil answer: "What they said.")

Ugh. Now I'm feeling bad, but for the record the question of "Why do people like Cullen?" has been the subject of far too many threads, typically intended to other, skewer and lampoon Cullen fans, who on average tend to be female, all in the guise of learning about his character. It's just not something I can bring myself to address yet again except to suggest listening to the things he has to say through Acts 2 & 3 (not just the inflammatory things he says in Act 1, and not just the pro-mage side). There are some interesting conflicts going on with that character, particularly in how his views have evolved, which in turn make him interesting. How they may (or may not) continue to evolve in the wake of the dramatic changes in the Templar Order should prove even more interesting when we see him in DA:I.

Agree with you 100%, and perhaps was why my answer was so short 

Luckily, being an anime fan, AND a slash fan, I am used to character wars/pairing wars/etc. Since I entered the world of online fandom during my early 20s, I've been defending my favorite characters and pairings. I'm an old pro, but it gets tiring. I will be the first to admit my insane and pointless love for a crack pairing or a character with little characterization. But I don't get why someone would question why I love an obviously well-written and nuanced character. Did we play the same game/watch the same show/read the same book? I have to wonder.

[VampOrchid]

Mesina2 wrote...

Moving from that thread to here, since little too off topic there.

Elfman wrote...

Because the guy has probably had more character development than another other NPC? In Origins, he was very sympathetic to the plight of the mages, but while also balancing his loyalty to the Chantry and his duty to the Templar Order. The Uldred fiasco radically changed his perception of them, having seen his friends tortured and killed by demons and psychologically tormented himself and he became a bit of a Chantry zealot. But when he was moved the Kirkwall and saw the much harsher treatment of mages there, he slowly began to once again question his views and wonder is it fair, is it right to treat mages like this? Then he finally realises Meredith has gone too far and stands up to her.

He's been forced from one extreme to the other and landed in very murky, ambiguous territory. His character could go either way, I feel. And throw in an (at least) ten year strong lyrium addiction, (which I vaguely remember the writers expressing the view that they really haven't done it much justice in the past), and you have some very interesting implications for DA:I.

Well, I guess I can see some appeal now.

Still not entirely seeing it, but I guess he has a pretty good potential in DA:I as a major character in it.
But as a companion? Maybe there's potential too?
Though doubtful, as Casandra is confirmed companion. And having two character that served Chantry in nearly same roles would be redundant.


But what do I know?
Only recently I started to get more deep into Dragon Age, as I am with Mass Effect.

I'm in no way trying to be rude or even trying to push someone away that's new to this thread. But this is a question that gets asked countless times.

This thread is over 2 thousand pages long. For anyone that curious, I say start reading through the pages. Sure it does seem laborous, but keep in mind so is answering this same question over and over. It's getting to the point where 'I' feel that I have to constantly prove why I like him.

It's just as odd as going up to someone and saying hey, why'd you marry that guy?
Obviously, there's something there you don't get. But if your honestly intrigued and want to know. Then by all means, read through the forum.

Read some fanfic. Look at the fan art. Watch the fan vids.

If you still don't get it, then it's not meant for you. And I'm not saying this to defend any Cullen fans, or Cullen. I'm simply stating this for anyone who adores someone who's not main stream.

But I do thank you for stopping in. It's appreciated.

[CroGamer002]

Well thank you for your answers, I can understand what's the appeal.

It was very interesting to read them all, as well.

[Ser Alicia]

 Hey, everyone!
I decided that now is as good a time as any to delurk for a moment to thank you guys. Yesterday I was asked, "Why do you like Cullen so much?" by one of my friends, and I just couldn't find a way to perfectly explain why. The answers you all posted were pretty much my exact thoughts, but I just couldn't put them to words. (I'm not very good with words and I'm horrible at explaining things. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]) I showed her your answers and now she says she understands. So thanks again, you're all awesome. 
*gives everyone heart shaped cookies with Cullen faces on them* Enjoy! 

[R2s Muse]

VampOrchid wrote...

I'm in no way trying to be rude or even trying to push someone away that's new to this thread. But this is a question that gets asked countless times.

This thread is over 2 thousand pages long. For anyone that curious, I say start reading through the pages. Sure it does seem laborous, but keep in mind so is answering this same question over and over. It's getting to the point where 'I' feel that I have to constantly prove why I like him.

It's just as odd as going up to someone and saying hey, why'd you marry that guy?
Obviously, there's something there you don't get. But if your honestly intrigued and want to know. Then by all means, read through the forum.

Read some fanfic. Look at the fan art. Watch the fan vids.

If you still don't get it, then it's not meant for you. And I'm not saying this to defend any Cullen fans, or Cullen. I'm simply stating this for anyone who adores someone who's not main stream.

But I do thank you for stopping in. It's appreciated.

Just going to highlight Vamp's brilliant response, which has captured the diplomacy mine was sorely lacking. Particularly the underlined part. Asking why people like him in that way suggests that liking him is somehow abnormal... setting aside the fact that every individual has his or her own individual reasons for liking a character (any character).

There are countless more specific questions that would be more useful in learning about Cullen if one is truly interested in doing so.  And, the Cullen thread is full of nice, informative, passionate people who love to talk about him, good and bad, so it's a good place to come for discussing the character (just not the fans).

[R2s Muse]

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

 Hey, everyone!
I decided that now is as good a time as any to delurk for a moment to thank you guys. Yesterday I was asked, "Why do you like Cullen so much?" by one of my friends, and I just couldn't find a way to perfectly explain why. The answers you all posted were pretty much my exact thoughts, but I just couldn't put them to words. (I'm not very good with words and I'm horrible at explaining things. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]) I showed her your answers and now she says she understands. So thanks again, you're all awesome. 
*gives everyone heart shaped cookies with Cullen faces on them* Enjoy! 

LOL Awesome! And, stay delurked!

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 octobre 2013 - 12:49 .

[LolaLei]

LOL, I just couldn't be arsed to repeat myself, soooooo, what you guys all said!

Also, welcome TheBioticAssassin!

[littlenikki]

VampOrchid wrote...

I'm in no way trying to be rude or even trying to push someone away that's new to this thread. But this is a question that gets asked countless times.

This thread is over 2 thousand pages long. For anyone that curious, I say start reading through the pages. Sure it does seem laborous, but keep in mind so is answering this same question over and over. It's getting to the point where 'I' feel that I have to constantly prove why I like him.

It's just as odd as going up to someone and saying hey, why'd you marry that guy?
Obviously, there's something there you don't get. But if your honestly intrigued and want to know. Then by all means, read through the forum.

Read some fanfic. Look at the fan art. Watch the fan vids.

If you still don't get it, then it's not meant for you. And I'm not saying this to defend any Cullen fans, or Cullen. I'm simply stating this for anyone who adores someone who's not main stream.

But I do thank you for stopping in. It's appreciated.

[Xilizhra]

typically intended to other, skewer and lampoon Cullen fans, who on average tend to be female

Forgive me, but I don't think this is entirely accurate. This particular fangroup is almost completely female, to be sure, but it's also distinguished by the interesting quirk of being largely pro-mage and only interested in Cullen as a person while frequently disagreeing with his political stance. There are plenty more who support the templar side in general, a stance that almost always includes being fans of Cullen, and those seem to have a tendency to be male.

[R2s Muse]

New Cullen art... which I don't think(?) has been posted.

Giveaway - Niamh Amell and Cullen by Billini

[VampOrchid]

Mesina2 wrote...

Well thank you for your answers, I can understand what's the appeal.

It was very interesting to read them all, as well.

I'm happy that you found your answer.

[R2s Muse]

Squee!! We've seen the detail version, but Mellora has finished the downloadable wallpaper version of "Greatsword." We'll see what el husbando thinks of that back gracing my computer... Hmm...

Greatsword - Full format by MellorianJ


Let's see if this works: Download here

[R2s Muse]

Xilizhra wrote...

typically intended to other, skewer and lampoon Cullen fans, who on average tend to be female

Forgive me, but I don't think this is entirely accurate. This particular fangroup is almost completely female, to be sure, but it's also distinguished by the interesting quirk of being largely pro-mage and only interested in Cullen as a person while frequently disagreeing with his political stance. There are plenty more who support the templar side in general, a stance that almost always includes being fans of Cullen, and those seem to have a tendency to be male.

Thanks, Xil. It is important to point out that Cullen has a number of male fans and that his fans are not limited to this particular thread. My generalization really stems from the fact that most of those "why do people like Cullen?" threads are just as often "Why do fangirls like Cullen?" and devolve into attacks and stereotyping of the "fangirl." But it bears mentioning, often, that his fans are a heterogeneous group.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 octobre 2013 - 01:54 .

[Xilizhra]

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

typically intended to other, skewer and lampoon Cullen fans, who on average tend to be female

Forgive me, but I don't think this is entirely accurate. This particular fangroup is almost completely female, to be sure, but it's also distinguished by the interesting quirk of being largely pro-mage and only interested in Cullen as a person while frequently disagreeing with his political stance. There are plenty more who support the templar side in general, a stance that almost always includes being fans of Cullen, and those seem to have a tendency to be male.

Thanks, Xil. It is important to point out that Cullen has a number of male fans and that his fans are not limited to this particular thread. My generalization really stems from the fact that most of those "why do people like Cullen threads?" are just as often "Why do fangirls like Cullen?" and devolve into attacks and stereotyping of the "fangirl." But it bears mentioning, often, that his fans are a heterogeneous group.

I'm certain that not everyone asking that has pure intentions. However, I do consider it a legitimate question to ask why people who aren't already vehemently pro-templar like Cullen, even if said question has been tainted by certain miscreants.

[R2s Muse]

Xilizhra wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

typically intended to other, skewer and lampoon Cullen fans, who on average tend to be female

Forgive me, but I don't think this is entirely accurate. This particular fangroup is almost completely female, to be sure, but it's also distinguished by the interesting quirk of being largely pro-mage and only interested in Cullen as a person while frequently disagreeing with his political stance. There are plenty more who support the templar side in general, a stance that almost always includes being fans of Cullen, and those seem to have a tendency to be male.

Thanks, Xil. It is important to point out that Cullen has a number of male fans and that his fans are not limited to this particular thread. My generalization really stems from the fact that most of those "why do people like Cullen ?" threads are just as often "Why do fangirls like Cullen?" and devolve into attacks and stereotyping of the "fangirl." But it bears mentioning, often, that his fans are a heterogeneous group.

I'm certain that not everyone asking that has pure intentions. However, I do consider it a legitimate question to ask why people who aren't already vehemently pro-templar like Cullen, even if said question has been tainted by certain miscreants.

True. But that's a different sort of question, no? "How do you reconcile being pro-mage and pro-Cullen?" A tough question, surely, but one with some interesting meat to discuss.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 octobre 2013 - 02:11 .

[Xilizhra]

True. But that's a different sort of question, no? "How do you reconcile being pro-mage and pro-Cullen?" A tough question, surely, but one with some interesting meat to discuss.

Indeed, but since I think that's been asked before, let me try a different one:

If you happened to actually meet Cullen in battle in The Last Straw, instead of just having him talk before Meredith attacks everyone, would you kill him?

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

typically intended to other, skewer and lampoon Cullen fans, who on average tend to be female

Forgive me, but I don't think this is entirely accurate. This particular fangroup is almost completely female, to be sure, but it's also distinguished by the interesting quirk of being largely pro-mage and only interested in Cullen as a person while frequently disagreeing with his political stance. There are plenty more who support the templar side in general, a stance that almost always includes being fans of Cullen, and those seem to have a tendency to be male.

Thanks, Xil. It is important to point out that Cullen has a number of male fans and that his fans are not limited to this particular thread. My generalization really stems from the fact that most of those "why do people like Cullen?" threads are just as often "Why do fangirls like Cullen?" and devolve into attacks and stereotyping of the "fangirl." But it bears mentioning, often, that his fans are a heterogeneous group.

I find it generally falls in 3 catagories:

• Trolls and extreme haters "ew fangirls" etc, that just wanna cause a bit of drama around the forum, or are a bit mental.

• Anti-Templar/Pro-Mage fans that pose interesting questions about Cullen's integrity/motivations that are looking for a decent debate about the Templar/Mage situation in general. (These people tend to get eclipsed by the trolls/haters storming in, getting personal and subsequently end up getting the threads closed down).

• And finally, people that are genuinely perplexed about his sudden surge in attention. Often these people don't pay much attention to the forums and aren't always aware of the 100+ threads made about Cullen asking the same questions. They usually feel like they might've missed a specific scene or dialogue in-game because prior to that they either didn't pay much attention to his character (since it is pretty small in both games) or only played the game once or twice.

I do find the question "why do you like *insert character/whatever* here" to be a strange one anyway, I mean, why does anyone like anything? We/they just do (for varying/many reasons). That being said, I can see why people would be curious if they feel like they might actually learn something, or even come to appreciate the thing that they're questioning.

[VampOrchid]

littlenikki wrote...

VampOrchid wrote...

I'm in no way trying to be rude or even trying to push someone away that's new to this thread. But this is a question that gets asked countless times.

This thread is over 2 thousand pages long. For anyone that curious, I say start reading through the pages. Sure it does seem laborous, but keep in mind so is answering this same question over and over. It's getting to the point where 'I' feel that I have to constantly prove why I like him.

It's just as odd as going up to someone and saying hey, why'd you marry that guy?
Obviously, there's something there you don't get. But if your honestly intrigued and want to know. Then by all means, read through the forum.

Read some fanfic. Look at the fan art. Watch the fan vids.

If you still don't get it, then it's not meant for you. And I'm not saying this to defend any Cullen fans, or Cullen. I'm simply stating this for anyone who adores someone who's not main stream.

But I do thank you for stopping in. It's appreciated.

LOL thanks.

And R2, glad I could help lol

[LolaLei]

Xilizhra wrote...

True. But that's a different sort of question, no? "How do you reconcile being pro-mage and pro-Cullen?" A tough question, surely, but one with some interesting meat to discuss.

Indeed, but since I think that's been asked before, let me try a different one:

If you happened to actually meet Cullen in battle in The Last Straw, instead of just having him talk before Meredith attacks everyone, would you kill him?

Ooooo, good one! 

I would've killed him.

If he hadn't challenged Meredith and attacked us with her instead, I would've killed him outright everytime. The only reason I "support" Cullen is because he did start to question the Order/Meredith and did finally challenge her/help Hawke (even though it was very last minute). For that reason alone I'd spare him (if we had been given the option to kill him or let him live), simply because I'm giving him the chance to redeem himself and state his case. I wanna see what he becomes in DAI, and I couldn't do that if I killed him, lol. If he's a complete douche bag in DAI and is all "RAWR MAGES MUST DIE, VIA LA HARCORE TEMPLARS!" *Huffs red lyrium* then he's a dead man.

I actually like the fact that he didn't try to stop Meredith until the last minute because it makes him more of a flawed character, and (to me) flaws makes them seem more "real" and "human", if that makes sense? Plus, it potentially makes for an interesting story.

Modifié par LolaLei, 30 octobre 2013 - 02:20 .

[VampOrchid]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

typically intended to other, skewer and lampoon Cullen fans, who on average tend to be female

Forgive me, but I don't think this is entirely accurate. This particular fangroup is almost completely female, to be sure, but it's also distinguished by the interesting quirk of being largely pro-mage and only interested in Cullen as a person while frequently disagreeing with his political stance. There are plenty more who support the templar side in general, a stance that almost always includes being fans of Cullen, and those seem to have a tendency to be male.

Thanks, Xil. It is important to point out that Cullen has a number of male fans and that his fans are not limited to this particular thread. My generalization really stems from the fact that most of those "why do people like Cullen?" threads are just as often "Why do fangirls like Cullen?" and devolve into attacks and stereotyping of the "fangirl." But it bears mentioning, often, that his fans are a heterogeneous group.

I find it generally falls in 3 catagories:

• Trolls and extreme haters "ew fangirls" etc, that just wanna cause a bit of drama around the forum, or are a bit mental.

• Anti-Templar/Pro-Mage fans that pose interesting questions about Cullen's integrity/motivations that are looking for a decent debate about the Templar/Mage situation in general. (These people tend to get eclipsed by the trolls/haters storming in, getting personal and subsequently end up getting the threads closed down).

• And finally, people that are genuinely perplexed about his sudden surge in attention. Often these people don't pay much attention to the forums and aren't always aware of the 100+ threads made about Cullen asking the same questions. They usually feel like they might've missed a specific scene or dialogue in-game because prior to that they either didn't pay much attention to his character (since it is pretty small in both games) or only played the game once or twice.

I do find the question "why do you like *insert character/whatever* here" to be a strange one anyway, I mean, why does anyone like anything? We/they just do (for varying/many reasons). That being said, I can see why people would be curious if they feel like they might actually learn something, or even come to appreciate the thing that they're questioning.

I think I would be more patient if the question was more specific. Not just why do you like, character.

For example, do you find his inner struggles to be appealing? Do you agree with his feeling on the matter? When he kind of snaps at your character for wanting to help save the other mages in Kinloch bother you at all?

All of these types of questions, where I can have a great conversation doesn't bother me so much.

But the flat , Why do you like him/her, just grinds my gears.

It's like trying to explain why I like Coke and not Pepsi. Same crap different pile.

And no matter what thread, what character, what game...this question is getting to be a bit cave-man-ish. I don't feel attacked when asked this, just bored and kind of discouraged when I have to answer it again. I find myself repeating the same answers in a monotone voice like a zombie that practiced the same answer infront of a mirror just to prove a point.

Makes me feel more like a dictionary and not so much as a human being.

- Me like Cullen. ~(feeling).
Started when Warden (Amell) walked by the Templar Knight (noun, person)

Yeah....

[VampOrchid]

LolaLei wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

True. But that's a different sort of question, no? "How do you reconcile being pro-mage and pro-Cullen?" A tough question, surely, but one with some interesting meat to discuss.

Indeed, but since I think that's been asked before, let me try a different one:

If you happened to actually meet Cullen in battle in The Last Straw, instead of just having him talk before Meredith attacks everyone, would you kill him?

Ooooo, good one! 

I would've killed him.

If he hadn't challenged Meredith and attacked us with her instead, I would've killed him outright everytime. The only reason I "support" Cullen is because he did start to question the Order/Meredith and did finally challenge her/help Hawke (even though it was very last minute). For that reason alone I'd spare him (if we had been given the option to kill him or let him live), simply because I'm giving him the chance to redeem himself and state his case. I wanna see what he becomes in DAI, and I couldn't do that if I killed him, lol. If he's a complete douche bag in DAI and is all "RAWR MAGES MUST DIE, VIA LA HARCORE TEMPLARS!" *Huffs red lyrium* then he's a dead man.

I actually like the fact that he didn't try to stop Meredith until the last minute because it makes him more of a flawed character, and (to me) flaws makes them seem more "real" and "human", if that makes sense? Plus, it potentially makes for an interesting story.

Agree, 100%

[R2s Muse]

Xilizhra wrote...

True. But that's a different sort of question, no? "How do you reconcile being pro-mage and pro-Cullen?" A tough question, surely, but one with some interesting meat to discuss.

Indeed, but since I think that's been asked before, let me try a different one:

If you happened to actually meet Cullen in battle in The Last Straw, instead of just having him talk before Meredith attacks everyone, would you kill him?

Ooh, that's a good question. So you're basically saying, if he hadn't had his change of heart during the Last Straw and instead had been one of the templars you have to fight (as a pro-mage Hawke), would you kill him? The simple answer is  yes, since he'd be red and you'd have to.  

Leaving aside gameplay, I've always assumed that Cullen was indeed amongst those templars killing mages before the final showdown, even if you never see him in that cutscene that shows the templars breaking through the gate into Templar Hall and slaughtering the mages there. So, if my Hawke was pro-mage and so there to protect the mages, and Cullen came up against her, she'd be forced to kill him. It's easy to handwave how talky she might have gotten in that moment, whether she was friends with him and thought she could talk him out of it, but if it came to it, she would have killed him.

(edit: and I must admit, the drama of the scene I'm imagining in my head is appealing to my twitchy writing fingers... )

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 octobre 2013 - 02:27 .

[LolaLei]

Before DA2 came out I would've expected Cullen to show up and be a complete nutjob, based on that alone (without knowing what he'd become in DA2) I would've killed him upon encountering him anyway, simply because we all thought he was gonna be completely mental so he'd need to be put out of his misery and stopped from going on a killing rampage. Hell, when you first encounter him in DA2 "this is templar business, stranger" I totally thought he was on a killing rampage and I thought we were about to get into a fight against him. 

However in DA2 he wasn't at all like his DA:O epilogue sliders described (for whatever reason). Based on his attitude and character growth alone I became a fan. He's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but he has the potential to become something great... and hopefully not a red templar/douche bag. Either way, I'm curious about his story arc and I'd like to see what he's become (be it good or bad) in DAI.

Modifié par LolaLei, 30 octobre 2013 - 02:33 .

[Xilizhra]

Ooh, that's a good question. So you're basically saying, if he hadn't had his change of heart during the Last Straw and instead had been one of the templars you have to fight (as a pro-mage Hawke), would you kill him? The simple answer is yes, since he'd be red and you'd have to.

Actually, it's just "if you ran into him earlier." He may or may not have had a change of heart later on at the change-of-heart place.