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[Adela]

Xilizhra wrote...

Out of curiosity, soapbox crusaders like me?

I dont think your a crusader, I think you just want to know  whast all the fuss about this characters as many do (correct me if I'm wrong) and tho I can understand why ppl  dont find him interesting since he doesn't get that much screen time.
To be honest I was like that  too, untill I came to this thread  and learned to read between the lines

[SamaraDraven]

Xilizhra wrote...

You're pretty moderate in comparison to some, Xil.

True enough.

Different strokes for different folks, peeps. I'm a chick and bi and I wanted to romance the pants off of Aveline. 'Twas a sad sad day when I learned I couldn't.

Aveline'd be fun, possibly... though I'm perfectly happy with Merrill.

Merrill wasn't to my tastes. Isabela... I tried once but it wasn't right either so I backed out of it. Of the women, I really wanted to romance the Guard Captain. *insert overly dramatic sigh here*

[LolaLei]

SamaraDraven wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Out of curiosity, soapbox crusaders like me?

I'd say you're too logical and well thought to be a "crusader". lol! one of the things that peeves me the most are other BSNers who claim we're hysterical and such but they're the ones who can't provide a respectful discourse.

Agreed. We can have a decent debate with you, Xil. The ones that drive me mad are the type that make up a bunch of crap to justify disliking a character. For example, there was one BSN user who couldn't stand Cullen (fair enough) but rather than give justified reasons why (based on in-game stuff), he was like "Cullen is a rapist, and he's been huffing red lyrium" as if it was gospel. 

[Xilizhra]

I dont think your a crusader, I think you just want to know whast all the fuss about this characters as many do (correct me if I'm wrong) and tho I can understand why ppl dont find him interesting since he doesn't get that much screen time.

Oh, I crusade for other things, including the annihilation of templars who don't surrender. However, I think Cullen might well, so he's not necessarily on the chopping block.

Merrill wasn't to my tastes.

If I may ask, why?

For example, there was one BSN user who couldn't stand Cullen (fair
enough) but rather than give justified reasons why (based on in-game
stuff), he was like "Cullen is a rapist, and he's been huffing red
lyrium" as if it was gospel.

That seems a tad odd. Although, while I seriously doubt he's ever personally raped anyone, he's apparently given approval to Tranquility as a concept, and that's quite enough skeevy violation.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 05 novembre 2013 - 10:36 .

[LolaLei]

I liked Merrill, but (aside from the whole Carver thing) she instantly felt more like family to me. I just wanted to put her in my pocket and keep her safe.

[SamaraDraven]

Xilizhra wrote...

I dont think your a crusader, I think you just want to know whast all the fuss about this characters as many do (correct me if I'm wrong) and tho I can understand why ppl dont find him interesting since he doesn't get that much screen time.

Oh, I crusade for other things, including the annihilation of templars who don't surrender. However, I think Cullen might well, so he's not necessarily on the chopping block.

Merrill wasn't to my tastes.

If I may ask, why?

She seemed too childlike to me. I can understand why Isabela calls her 'Kitten'. She was either cute to me, like fluffy animal I want to pet cute; or dangerously naive. I just felt too much like I was dealing with a kid. I couldn't make myself have Hawke flirt with her because it seemed... weird. For me.

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 05 novembre 2013 - 10:41 .

[SamaraDraven]

Xilizhra wrote...

For example, there was one BSN user who couldn't stand Cullen (fair
enough) but rather than give justified reasons why (based on in-game
stuff), he was like "Cullen is a rapist, and he's been huffing red
lyrium" as if it was gospel.

That seems a tad odd. Although, while I seriously doubt he's ever personally raped anyone, he's apparently given approval to Tranquility as a concept, and that's quite enough skeevy violation.

I'm hoping this is an issue Cullen has to come to some kind of reckoning about. If he's in the new game, that is... He's accepted such things because they were simply how things were. He seems to be evolving into his own mind and I think it's only fair he should have to deal with coming to grips of what he's been party to. A good example would be Teal'c from Stargate SG-1. He had done - and not stopped - some pretty awful things. And he was making amends for them until the show ended. I'd love to see Cullen have the same.

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 05 novembre 2013 - 10:46 .

[LolaLei]

Xilizhra wrote...

That seems a tad odd. Although, while I seriously doubt he's ever personally raped anyone, he's apparently given approval to Tranquility as a concept, and that's quite enough skeevy violation.

I still can't work out what his stand point on the whole tranquility thing is. On the one hand, at first he said that tranquility is a viable option (when Hawke approaches him about the tranquil solution), but later on (if you side with the Templars) he'll actively stick up for 3 mages and says that there's no need to make them tranquil since they hadn't resorted to blood magic.

I think (and I might be misinterpreting it) that he considers tranquility to be an option when all else has failed. I mean, it seems that he doesn't agree with making mages tranquil for the sake of it (by the end of DA2), but I also get the impression that (at least initally) a lot of his hardlined stance is based solely on the experience he had in the Ferelden Circle when he was tortured.

Whether or not that'll change in DAI remains to be seen. I think no matter what they do with him he's always gonna be a bit weird about mages and magic in general (kinda like Fenris was). I imagine it would be difficult for any Templar to see beyond the brainwashing... unless some nasty secrets about the Chantry etc came out. *Fingers crossed*

Modifié par LolaLei, 05 novembre 2013 - 10:48 .

[Xilizhra]

Merrill might seem childlike outwardly, but her focus and drive are decidedly not. In addition to her overall competence.

I think (and I might be misinterpreting it) that he considers tranquility to be an option when all else has failed. I mean, it seems that he doesn't agree with making mages tranquil for the sake of it (by the end of DA2), but I also get the impression that (at least initally) a lot of his hardlined stance is based solely on the experience he had in the Ferelden Circle when he was tortured.

This might be the case, but the fact that he sees it as viable at all is problematic in and of itself.

[LolaLei]

Xilizhra wrote...

Merrill might seem childlike outwardly, but her focus and drive are decidedly not. In addition to her overall competence.

I think (and I might be misinterpreting it) that he considers tranquility to be an option when all else has failed. I mean, it seems that he doesn't agree with making mages tranquil for the sake of it (by the end of DA2), but I also get the impression that (at least initally) a lot of his hardlined stance is based solely on the experience he had in the Ferelden Circle when he was tortured.

This might be the case, but the fact that he sees it as viable at all is problematic in and of itself.

But he's a Templar, it's been drummed into him that it's the only option/the will of the Maker/blah blah blah. I could see a pre-torture Cullen rebelling against that and doing what the likes of Thrask did (turning against Meredith/whoever to help the mages), however, post-torture Cullen promised himself that he would never again question the Order and is far more hardlined than he would've been otherwise.

Essentially, he's the product of his environment. Probably another reason why Meredith saw potential in him, she sought to take advantage of his unfortunate situation.

[HurricaneGinger]

Xilizhra wrote...

Merrill might seem childlike outwardly, but her focus and drive are decidedly not. In addition to her overall competence.

I think (and I might be misinterpreting it) that he considers tranquility to be an option when all else has failed. I mean, it seems that he doesn't agree with making mages tranquil for the sake of it (by the end of DA2), but I also get the impression that (at least initally) a lot of his hardlined stance is based solely on the experience he had in the Ferelden Circle when he was tortured.

This might be the case, but the fact that he sees it as viable at all is problematic in and of itself.

How so, if I may ask? I think his opinion on tranquility is a great deal more level-headed than that of other templars. Tranquility is a chilling concept, and I would personally rather die than be "content". I don't think he'll run off and carry out the act of tranquility on any ol' mage he comes accross, however.

EDIT:
'd by Lola. XD

Modifié par PhantomGinger, 05 novembre 2013 - 10:57 .

[Xilizhra]

But he's a Templar, it's been drummed into him that it's the only option/the will of the Maker/blah blah blah. I could see a pre-torture Cullen rebelling against that and doing what the likes of Thrask did (turning against Meredith/whoever to help the mages), however, post-torture Cullen promised himself that he would never again question the Order and is far more hardlined than he would've been otherwise.

Essentially, he's the product of his environment. Probably another reason why Meredith saw potential in him, she sought to take advantage of his unfortunate situation.

I know. I'm not saying I personally hate him. But he's still, as of now, an enemy who might possibly become an ally.

How so, if I may ask? I think his opinion on tranquility is a great deal more level-headed than that of other templars. Tranquility is a chilling concept, and I would personally rather die than be "content". I don't think he'll run off and carry out the act of tranquility on any ol' mage he comes accross, however.

That's just a sign of how ruinous the templar mindset is, though, not that Cullen is particularly tolerant.

[Ilidan_DA]

Well I mean like being able to speak to the character when you want like DA origins? And thank you for your answer

Mike Laidlaw ‏

Oh! Then, yes. You'll be able to do that.

[HurricaneGinger]

Xilizhra wrote...

But he's a Templar, it's been drummed into him that it's the only option/the will of the Maker/blah blah blah. I could see a pre-torture Cullen rebelling against that and doing what the likes of Thrask did (turning against Meredith/whoever to help the mages), however, post-torture Cullen promised himself that he would never again question the Order and is far more hardlined than he would've been otherwise.

Essentially, he's the product of his environment. Probably another reason why Meredith saw potential in him, she sought to take advantage of his unfortunate situation.

I know. I'm not saying I personally hate him. But he's still, as of now, an enemy who might possibly become an ally.

How so, if I may ask? I think his opinion on tranquility is a great deal more level-headed than that of other templars. Tranquility is a chilling concept, and I would personally rather die than be "content". I don't think he'll run off and carry out the act of tranquility on any ol' mage he comes accross, however.

That's just a sign of how ruinous the templar mindset is, though, not that Cullen is particularly tolerant.

Hmm, I suppose with such a heinous act supported by those who trained/raised them, I can understand why anyone would be suspicious of that person.

I mean, imagine if the Irish took Jonathan Swift's "suggestion" seriously. Everyone would be wary around them!

[LolaLei]

According to Gaider, Cullen was supposed to represent a moderate Templar (albeit it not very well implemented). In DA2 you saw two extremes:

Templars that were too trusting, to the point that they ended up being fooled/killed by the likes of Grace. Granted, in some cases (depending on your choices) she was pushed to extreme, but she still turned on the good Templars that were trying to help her.

At the other end of the spectrum you had the bad Templars that were raping, beating and abusing the mages in their care.

[Potato Cat]

Wiedzmin182009 wrote...

Well I mean like being able to speak to the character when you want like DA origins? And thank you for your answer

Mike Laidlaw ‏

Oh! Then, yes. You'll be able to do that.

I thought it was confirmed you could only talk to them in certain places, like Inquisition strongholds?

[Xilizhra]

LolaLei wrote...

According to Gaider, Cullen was supposed to represent a moderate Templar (albeit it not very well implemented). In DA2 you saw two extremes:

Templars that were too trusting, to the point that they ended up being fooled/killed by the likes of Grace. Granted, in some cases (depending on your choices) she was pushed to extreme, but she still turned on the good Templars that were trying to help her.

At the other end of the spectrum you had the bad Templars that were raping, beating and abusing the mages in their care.

Thrask wasn't wrong, he just picked one wrong ally (who seems to have been possessed anyway, given that she rises as a pride abomination). And Cullen's alleged moderation is still of an extreme position in general.

[LolaLei]

Xilizhra wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

According to Gaider, Cullen was supposed to represent a moderate Templar (albeit it not very well implemented). In DA2 you saw two extremes:

Templars that were too trusting, to the point that they ended up being fooled/killed by the likes of Grace. Granted, in some cases (depending on your choices) she was pushed to extreme, but she still turned on the good Templars that were trying to help her.

At the other end of the spectrum you had the bad Templars that were raping, beating and abusing the mages in their care.

Thrask wasn't wrong, he just picked one wrong ally (who seems to have been possessed anyway, given that she rises as a pride abomination). And Cullen's alleged moderation is still of an extreme position in general.

I agree. What Thrask and the others were trying to do was very admirable, they were just unfortunate. My point was that the DA2 was supposed to be showing extremes from all ends. 

To be fair, Cullen had been tortured. It's to be expected that he's gonna be a bit "RAWR!" However, given what he went through he was far more moderate than what he should've been (especially given his original retconned epilogues). I was fully expecting to have to kill him in DA2 when I first played it, so I was quite surprised to see him start questioning things at all.

Modifié par LolaLei, 05 novembre 2013 - 11:21 .

[Xilizhra]

To be fair, Cullen had been tortured. It's to be expected that he's gonna be a bit "RAWR!" However, given what he went through he was far more moderate than what he should've been (especially given his original retconned epilogues). I was fully expecting to have to kill him in DA2 when I first played it, so I was quite surprised to see him start questioning things at all.

I'm not discounting the torture thing. As I said, I don't hate him personally. I'm just saying that he hasn't shown any sign yet of not being an enemy. He may well become such, however.

[CuriousArtemis]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not discounting the torture thing. As I said, I don't hate him personally. I'm just saying that he hasn't shown any sign yet of not being an enemy. He may well become such, however.

I don't think the writers would turn him into an enemy. He is seen as a moderate by them. And I think they are quite fond of him. He will be an NPC, I think, one who ultimately helps the Inquisition's cause.

[Xilizhra]

motomotogirl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not discounting the torture thing. As I said, I don't hate him personally. I'm just saying that he hasn't shown any sign yet of not being an enemy. He may well become such, however.

I don't think the writers would turn him into an enemy. He is seen as a moderate by them. And I think they are quite fond of him. He will be an NPC, I think, one who ultimately helps the Inquisition's cause.

That may well be the case. Although he may start out as one and just be pliable toward the Inquisition's cause.

[LolaLei]

Xilizhra wrote...

To be fair, Cullen had been tortured. It's to be expected that he's gonna be a bit "RAWR!" However, given what he went through he was far more moderate than what he should've been (especially given his original retconned epilogues). I was fully expecting to have to kill him in DA2 when I first played it, so I was quite surprised to see him start questioning things at all.

I'm not discounting the torture thing. As I said, I don't hate him personally. I'm just saying that he hasn't shown any sign yet of not being an enemy. He may well become such, however.

I wonder if maybe it could go either way, depending on your choices 'n' stuff. I suppose really it all depends on what he's been doing/experiencing between DA2 and DAI. He could be anything from a Knight Commander, to a lyrium addled tramp and all that's in between.

[CuriousArtemis]

Xilizhra wrote...

That may well be the case. Although he may start out as one and just be pliable toward the Inquisition's cause.

I could see that, too. That he could initially side with Lambert (is that his name?), especially if he is the new Knight-Commander of Kirkwall. But I do think they find him too interesting a character to let him stay "a bad guy" if he starts out that way. Otherwise they would not include him at all. They would pick someone else to be "just a bad guy."

Modifié par motomotogirl, 05 novembre 2013 - 11:31 .

[Ilidan_DA]

Hi LolaLei

Congratulations. You have 1000 Subscribers!

Btw: Please, Check PM

[LolaLei]

Wiedzmin182009 wrote...

Hi LolaLei

Congratulations. You have 1000 Subscribers!

Btw: Please, Check PM

You sent me a message? It's weird, nothing is showing up in my inbox. I know a few people have been having the same problem, I'll have to get in contact with whoever runs the forums.