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[Dirgegun]

littlenikki wrote...

I can understand where her drive is coming from, don't get me wrong, just the way she handles things rubs me the wrong way. She's a super polarizing character it seems, you either get her or you don't and I just don't. Not trying to say any of my views are anything more than just how I interpret the character, that's just how I feel *shrugs*

Agree on the Eamon front, I would murder knife that douche in a heartbeat with some of my less diplomatic characters.

Right, right! 

I don't mean to sound like I adore her and see her as infallible/perfect/the 'right' ruler or anything! I just wanted to defend that she's not a character that can be simplified, I guess? I don't think any of the characters in Bioware games can be simplified. They do an incredibly good job of writing them, which is probably WHY they're so polarising. The last thing you want, as a writer, is to have your character evoke a 'meh' reaction.

I didn't mean to come across as aggressive if I did. 

Modifié par Dirgegun, 07 novembre 2013 - 01:51 .

[Dirgegun]

And sorry for the sort of spam/multiple replies in a row! I wanted to make sure I properly replied to everyone. orz

[littlenikki]

Dirgegun wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I can understand where her drive is coming from, don't get me wrong, just the way she handles things rubs me the wrong way. She's a super polarizing character it seems, you either get her or you don't and I just don't. Not trying to say any of my views are anything more than just how I interpret the character, that's just how I feel *shrugs*

Agree on the Eamon front, I would murder knife that douche in a heartbeat with some of my less diplomatic characters.

Right, right! 

I don't mean to sound like I adore her and see her as infallible/perfect/the 'right' ruler or anything! I just wanted to defend that she's not a character that can be simplified, I guess? I don't think any of the characters in Bioware games can be simplified. They do an incredibly good job of writing them, which is probably WHY they're so polarising. The last thing you want, as a writer, is to have your character evoke a 'meh' reaction.

I didn't mean to come across as aggressive if I did. 

Oh no, you're fine. All huggles and sweetness here in the Cullen thread, nothing hurts and everything is Cullen 

I try to look at her w/out any bias, but being such an Alistair fangirl when she starts dissin on him I usually just Hulk out. Also, the first playthrough she seemed like she double crossed my Warden twice, w/ the rescue and then the Landsmeet, so I started w/ such a bad view of her with any new playthroughs. 

[Dirgegun]

littlenikki wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I can understand where her drive is coming from, don't get me wrong, just the way she handles things rubs me the wrong way. She's a super polarizing character it seems, you either get her or you don't and I just don't. Not trying to say any of my views are anything more than just how I interpret the character, that's just how I feel *shrugs*

Agree on the Eamon front, I would murder knife that douche in a heartbeat with some of my less diplomatic characters.

Right, right! 

I don't mean to sound like I adore her and see her as infallible/perfect/the 'right' ruler or anything! I just wanted to defend that she's not a character that can be simplified, I guess? I don't think any of the characters in Bioware games can be simplified. They do an incredibly good job of writing them, which is probably WHY they're so polarising. The last thing you want, as a writer, is to have your character evoke a 'meh' reaction.

I didn't mean to come across as aggressive if I did. 

Oh no, you're fine. All huggles and sweetness here in the Cullen thread, nothing hurts and everything is Cullen 

I try to look at her w/out any bias, but being such an Alistair fangirl when she starts dissin on him I usually just Hulk out. Also, the first playthrough she seemed like she double crossed my Warden twice, w/ the rescue and then the Landsmeet, so I started w/ such a bad view of her with any new playthroughs. 

...You've given me such a strange mental image of the Warden just going Hulk on people.

"You are making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." 

That actually happened in my first playthrough, except I realised the first 'betrayal' in the moment. "Wait. She said not to tell Logain's men she was here, didn't she? Oops, my bad." 

Modifié par Dirgegun, 07 novembre 2013 - 02:02 .

[Ser Alicia]

 I definitely see where you're coming from, but, like people have said before me, I get this bad feeling whenever I talk to Anora. She just has this bad... vibe? aura? I don't know what you would call it, but it bothers me. I don't feel like I should trust her. My gut tells me not to listen to her. And when I get that feeling irl it's usually with good reason.
Same with Eamon. I don't think he really cares about Alistair as much as Alistair cares for him. I remember Alistair or someone saying that Eamon made him sleep in the stables when he was younger. Why in the stables? He's an arl. We've been in his castle - it has plenty of rooms. Why coudn't he have made space for him in there? I just don't get it.

[Dirgegun]

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

 I definitely see where you're coming from, but, like people have said before me, I get this bad feeling whenever I talk to Anora. She just has this bad... vibe? aura? I don't know what you would call it, but it bothers me. I don't feel like I should trust her. My gut tells me not to listen to her. And when I get that feeling irl it's usually with good reason.
Same with Eamon. I don't think he really cares about Alistair as much as Alistair cares for him. I remember Alistair or someone saying that Eamon made him sleep in the stables when he was younger. Why in the stables? He's an arl. We've been in his castle - it has plenty of rooms. Why coudn't he have made space for him in there? I just don't get it.

Well, the claim was that Alistair was made to sleep in the stables because of Isolde and how she thought Alistair might be Eamon's son, but that is hardly a good excuse where I'm concerned. Alistair could have easily slept in the servant's quarters or something if Eamon wanted to appear like he didn't care. Even sending Alistair off to the Chantry seemed like something Eamon did with plans in mind.

[Ser Alicia]

Dirgegun wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

 I definitely see where you're coming from, but, like people have said before me, I get this bad feeling whenever I talk to Anora. She just has this bad... vibe? aura? I don't know what you would call it, but it bothers me. I don't feel like I should trust her. My gut tells me not to listen to her. And when I get that feeling irl it's usually with good reason.
Same with Eamon. I don't think he really cares about Alistair as much as Alistair cares for him. I remember Alistair or someone saying that Eamon made him sleep in the stables when he was younger. Why in the stables? He's an arl. We've been in his castle - it has plenty of rooms. Why coudn't he have made space for him in there? I just don't get it.

Well, the claim was that Alistair was made to sleep in the stables because of Isolde and how she thought Alistair might be Eamon's son, but that is hardly a good excuse where I'm concerned. Alistair could have easily slept in the servant's quarters or something if Eamon wanted to appear like he didn't care. Even sending Alistair off to the Chantry seemed like something Eamon did with plans in mind.

My thoughts exactly. Or he could've sent him to stay with Teagan, the one man I think actually cares about Alistair. Either would've been acceptable. Making him sleep in the stables? Unnacceptable.

[Xilizhra]

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

 I definitely see where you're coming from, but, like people have said before me, I get this bad feeling whenever I talk to Anora. She just has this bad... vibe? aura? I don't know what you would call it, but it bothers me. I don't feel like I should trust her. My gut tells me not to listen to her. And when I get that feeling irl it's usually with good reason.
Same with Eamon. I don't think he really cares about Alistair as much as Alistair cares for him. I remember Alistair or someone saying that Eamon made him sleep in the stables when he was younger. Why in the stables? He's an arl. We've been in his castle - it has plenty of rooms. Why coudn't he have made space for him in there? I just don't get it.

Well, the claim was that Alistair was made to sleep in the stables because of Isolde and how she thought Alistair might be Eamon's son, but that is hardly a good excuse where I'm concerned. Alistair could have easily slept in the servant's quarters or something if Eamon wanted to appear like he didn't care. Even sending Alistair off to the Chantry seemed like something Eamon did with plans in mind.

My thoughts exactly. Or he could've sent him to stay with Teagan, the one man I think actually cares about Alistair. Either would've been acceptable. Making him sleep in the stables? Unnacceptable.

Keep in mind, though, that he repaired that amulet of Alistair's mother and probably intended to give it back to him at some point.

[CuriousArtemis]

thats1evildude wrote...

Have you ever played through the Landsmeet with an unhardened Alistair and executed Loghain? When it comes time to pick a ruler and Alistair says "Wait, we haven't decided anything yet," Anora is practically frothing at the mouth. "You see? You see? He abdicated! You all heard it, I know you did! Make me Queen, Warden!" She comes off as incredibly desperate.

Yeah I didn't harden Alistair b/c I didn't know about hardening, and also the "hardening" response during the Goldanna quest is super mean, so it never occurred me to pick it. I do make Alistair king and shut Anora up in jail lol She's not a nice lady. And definitely power hungry! Also, 0% claim to the throne. 

[CuriousArtemis]

littlenikki wrote...

Agree on the Eamon front, I would murder knife that douche in a heartbeat with some of my less diplomatic characters.

Oh my, I think I must have missed this on my playthroughs. What did Eamon do? I thought he was a pretty nice guy. Kind of bland though.

[Dirgegun]

Xilizhra wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

 I definitely see where you're coming from, but, like people have said before me, I get this bad feeling whenever I talk to Anora. She just has this bad... vibe? aura? I don't know what you would call it, but it bothers me. I don't feel like I should trust her. My gut tells me not to listen to her. And when I get that feeling irl it's usually with good reason.
Same with Eamon. I don't think he really cares about Alistair as much as Alistair cares for him. I remember Alistair or someone saying that Eamon made him sleep in the stables when he was younger. Why in the stables? He's an arl. We've been in his castle - it has plenty of rooms. Why coudn't he have made space for him in there? I just don't get it.

Well, the claim was that Alistair was made to sleep in the stables because of Isolde and how she thought Alistair might be Eamon's son, but that is hardly a good excuse where I'm concerned. Alistair could have easily slept in the servant's quarters or something if Eamon wanted to appear like he didn't care. Even sending Alistair off to the Chantry seemed like something Eamon did with plans in mind.

My thoughts exactly. Or he could've sent him to stay with Teagan, the one man I think actually cares about Alistair. Either would've been acceptable. Making him sleep in the stables? Unnacceptable.

Keep in mind, though, that he repaired that amulet of Alistair's mother and probably intended to give it back to him at some point.

That's if you believe Eamon repaired it. We found it in his desk, but, for all we know, Teagan might have repaired it and given it to Eamon to give to Alistair, and the old badger just forgot about it. Now, I don't think Eamon is scum of the earth, but I don't believe he cared about Alistair nearly as much as Alistair cares about him. 

[BevH]

I hope you all don't mind me jumping in here, but the Anora discussion has peaked my interest (plus I've been lurking for news/info on Cullen). My views on Anora have changed somewhat over my multiple playthroughs. I did, at first, think she was a power hungry witch, as many (or some) seem to think. But lately, I'm thinking she would be no better on the throne than people seem to think Alistair would be. And my one big reason is this: if she was truly wanted to rule, why, then, did she allow her father to take over? I know it can be difficult to stand up to one's father, but if she's truly the queen, why did she allow it?

[CuriousArtemis]

BevH wrote...

And my one big reason is this: if she was truly wanted to rule, why, then, did she allow her father to take over? I know it can be difficult to stand up to one's father, but if she's truly the queen, why did she allow it?

Well that's what turns me off; she isn't much of a ruler. She lets her pretty evil father... who also has no claim to the throne... rule for her. She just comes off as a spoiled daddy's little girl princess.

[Dirgegun]

motomotogirl wrote...

BevH wrote...

And my one big reason is this: if she was truly wanted to rule, why, then, did she allow her father to take over? I know it can be difficult to stand up to one's father, but if she's truly the queen, why did she allow it?

Well that's what turns me off; she isn't much of a ruler. She lets her pretty evil father... who also has no claim to the throne... rule for her. She just comes off as a spoiled daddy's little girl princess.

Logain went off the deep end and did some really bad things, but, what was she supposed to do? In the eyes of everyone he was still their hero and she was one woman without an army. She did try to question him, but there wasn't much she could do to muscle him off the throne.  

[meanieweenie]

Dirgegun wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

BevH wrote...

And my one big reason is this: if she was truly wanted to rule, why, then, did she allow her father to take over? I know it can be difficult to stand up to one's father, but if she's truly the queen, why did she allow it?

Well that's what turns me off; she isn't much of a ruler. She lets her pretty evil father... who also has no claim to the throne... rule for her. She just comes off as a spoiled daddy's little girl princess.

Logain went off the deep end and did some really bad things, but, what was she supposed to do? In the eyes of everyone he was still their hero and she was one woman without an army. She did try to question him, but there wasn't much she could do to muscle him off the throne.  

A heavy dose of laxatives would have kept him out of the way for a while ... just sayin'.

[BevH]

meanieweenie wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

BevH wrote...

And my one big reason is this: if she was truly wanted to rule, why, then, did she allow her father to take over? I know it can be difficult to stand up to one's father, but if she's truly the queen, why did she allow it?

Well that's what turns me off; she isn't much of a ruler. She lets her pretty evil father... who also has no claim to the throne... rule for her. She just comes off as a spoiled daddy's little girl princess.

Logain went off the deep end and did some really bad things, but, what was she supposed to do? In the eyes of everyone he was still their hero and she was one woman without an army. She did try to question him, but there wasn't much she could do to muscle him off the throne.  

A heavy dose of laxatives would have kept him out of the way for a while ... just sayin'.

It would've put him on a throne of a different sort. *giggles*

[Dirgegun]

meanieweenie wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

BevH wrote...

And my one big reason is this: if she was truly wanted to rule, why, then, did she allow her father to take over? I know it can be difficult to stand up to one's father, but if she's truly the queen, why did she allow it?

Well that's what turns me off; she isn't much of a ruler. She lets her pretty evil father... who also has no claim to the throne... rule for her. She just comes off as a spoiled daddy's little girl princess.

Logain went off the deep end and did some really bad things, but, what was she supposed to do? In the eyes of everyone he was still their hero and she was one woman without an army. She did try to question him, but there wasn't much she could do to muscle him off the throne.  

A heavy dose of laxatives would have kept him out of the way for a while ... just sayin'.

...I... 

[meanieweenie]

BevH wrote...
It would've put him on a throne of a different sort. *giggles*

You have just become my Hero of the Day!

[BevH]

Dirgegun wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

BevH wrote...

And my one big reason is this: if she was truly wanted to rule, why, then, did she allow her father to take over? I know it can be difficult to stand up to one's father, but if she's truly the queen, why did she allow it?

Well that's what turns me off; she isn't much of a ruler. She lets her pretty evil father... who also has no claim to the throne... rule for her. She just comes off as a spoiled daddy's little girl princess.

Logain went off the deep end and did some really bad things, but, what was she supposed to do? In the eyes of everyone he was still their hero and she was one woman without an army. She did try to question him, but there wasn't much she could do to muscle him off the throne.  

But the point is, she claims to have been ruling the entire time she and Cailan were married. Also, she's nearing 30, hardly a child, so why in the Maker's name did she even need a regent?

[Dirgegun]

BevH wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

BevH wrote...

And my one big reason is this: if she was truly wanted to rule, why, then, did she allow her father to take over? I know it can be difficult to stand up to one's father, but if she's truly the queen, why did she allow it?

Well that's what turns me off; she isn't much of a ruler. She lets her pretty evil father... who also has no claim to the throne... rule for her. She just comes off as a spoiled daddy's little girl princess.

Logain went off the deep end and did some really bad things, but, what was she supposed to do? In the eyes of everyone he was still their hero and she was one woman without an army. She did try to question him, but there wasn't much she could do to muscle him off the throne.  

But the point is, she claims to have been ruling the entire time she and Cailan were married. Also, she's nearing 30, hardly a child, so why in the Maker's name did she even need a regent?

Logain was Maric's best friend, Cailan' advisor, Anora's father, and a great hero to the people. So who was gonna stand up to him if he swept in and took leadership/appointed himself regent? Especially if there's a possibility he had some papers back from when Maric was king that allowed him to do that officially.

[Jean]

Oh dear, I didn't mean to spark an entire debate haha. I guess it is something to talk about.

Honestly the only reason I did not and still usually do not make Alistair king is... He asked me not to. He said he didn't want it and that was all I needed to hear.
Nothing to do with whether or not I like Anora better, it was simply I was not going to make a choice like that for him. It is a little something that I personally know a thing or two about and that's where I really connect with his character above all else.

I also like the idea that it was Teagan who repaired the amulet too, though it probably was Eamon.

[Dirgegun]

Batteries wrote...

Oh dear, I didn't mean to spark an entire debate haha. I guess it is something to talk about.

Honestly the only reason I did not and still usually do not make Alistair king is... He asked me not to. He said he didn't want it and that was all I needed to hear.
Nothing to do with whether or not I like Anora better, it was simply I was not going to make a choice like that for him. It is a little something that I personally know a thing or two about and that's where I really connect with his character above all else.

I also like the idea that it was Teagan who repaired the amulet too, though it probably was Eamon.

That's one of the key reasons I don't ever make Alistair king, because WOW, that is one big, life changing decision to make for someone. Especially when he asks you not to make him king.

I do, however, feel a little put off when I see Anora's character completely demonised or summed up as 'she's just power hungry and nothing else'. It's like seeing Cullen's character simplified into 'he's just a mage-hating jerk and nothing else.' I feel that way about all characters, though. 

Even Logain, who I really don't like as a person (though I adore as a villain), shouldn't be summed up as just 'evil betraying jerk nugget'. Same goes for Rendon Howe. There's more to him than just 'betraying bastard'.

Modifié par Dirgegun, 07 novembre 2013 - 04:10 .

[BevH]

Batteries wrote...

Oh dear, I didn't mean to spark an entire debate haha. I guess it is something to talk about.

Honestly the only reason I did not and still usually do not make Alistair king is... He asked me not to. He said he didn't want it and that was all I needed to hear.
Nothing to do with whether or not I like Anora better, it was simply I was not going to make a choice like that for him. It is a little something that I personally know a thing or two about and that's where I really connect with his character above all else.

I also like the idea that it was Teagan who repaired the amulet too, though it probably was Eamon.

It's all good and I honestly do see Dirgegun's point of view.

All I'm saying is Anora states she wants to rule and yet she only too willingly handed over the reigns to her father. And, yes, Alistair says time and again he doesn't want the throne... until the Landsmeet. If you allow him to duel and/or execute Loghain, he will automatically accept the throne. If you're allowed to make the decision, when you ask a hardened Alistair (and I still tend to gigglesnort at that term), he will say, "Make me king!"

Honestly, we don't really know who it was that repaired the amulet, only that we find it in Eamon's desk. That's a good thought that perhaps it was Teagan.

[Dirgegun]

BevH wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Oh dear, I didn't mean to spark an entire debate haha. I guess it is something to talk about.

Honestly the only reason I did not and still usually do not make Alistair king is... He asked me not to. He said he didn't want it and that was all I needed to hear.
Nothing to do with whether or not I like Anora better, it was simply I was not going to make a choice like that for him. It is a little something that I personally know a thing or two about and that's where I really connect with his character above all else.

I also like the idea that it was Teagan who repaired the amulet too, though it probably was Eamon.

It's all good and I honestly do see Dirgegun's point of view.

All I'm saying is Anora states she wants to rule and yet she only too willingly handed over the reigns to her father. And, yes, Alistair says time and again he doesn't want the throne... until the Landsmeet. If you allow him to duel and/or execute Loghain, he will automatically accept the throne. If you're allowed to make the decision, when you ask a hardened Alistair (and I still tend to gigglesnort at that term), he will say, "Make me king!"

Honestly, we don't really know who it was that repaired the amulet, only that we find it in Eamon's desk. That's a good thought that perhaps it was Teagan.

Well, a hardened Alistair (Hurr hurr), is a completely different argument. /o/

[Xilizhra]

Even Logain, who I really don't like as a person (though I adore as a villain), shouldn't be summed up as just 'evil betraying jerk nugget'. Same goes for Rendon Howe. There's more to him than just 'betraying bastard'.

Well, there's also "racist mass murderer," but did you mean something else? Even his own son admits that he doesn't have much sympathy for him.