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The Official Knight-Captain Cullen Discussion thread 2.0.


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#67651
Kirrahe1

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TreeHuggerHannah wrote...

I haven’t ever witnessed or read any cases where someone who was delayed in their maturity stage suddenly progress to the age that matched their body. (THH would know more about this aspect of teenage years than I would so feel free to jump in and slap me if I’m wrong lol:P). 


In general I would agree with this, particularly in a case where he has (presumably) had no therapeutic intervention in the meantime. Caveat that everyone is different and we all develop at different rates - but I think it would be rare.

Of course there are lots of cases where the level of development that a person is able to demonstrate flutuates based on external factors (for example in a more positive or supportive environment more maturity is demonstrated, in a negative or adversarial environment there's some regression) and cases where a person demonstrates uneven development in different areas (for example, they may have a sexual awareness and interest beyond their years but be significantly behind in their ability to make good decisions,) and it's possible one or both of those scenarios could fit Cole - I don't really know enough about him to speculate.

In general, though, I think the odds of Cole moving from an adolescent or preadolescent level of emotional development to an adult level of emotional development - even as a chronological adult - in just a few years not only without any type of therapy but also without a social support system would be negligible.

Hmm…
you know another aspect of this could be environment.  Sociologically speaking Cole hasn’t had a ton of face to face interactions with others in a very long time.  While it wouldn’t be anywhere near as severe as say Genie or Victor, there are some aspects that could be explained purely based upon the fact that Cole in many ways is being thrown into a world he doesn’t understand.  While he has observed people, actually engaging with them is an entirely different beast.  I would imagine that even if he were both physically and mentally able to be interested in a romance it would come as an incredible challenge.  Heck, even fully adapted adults who have been successfully interacting with others for years often have terrible times in both romantic and platonic relationships.  Unless he spent years watching players like Anders and gleaned some good pick up lines. ;)

Something of an interesting note is that when you mention “The level of development that a person demonstrates fluctuates based on external factors.”  This is true for all different healing processes and growth progressions, especially in regards to any psychological disorder.  You could take 15 different people with the exact same diagnosis (and of course every single case would have aspect that were different, but diagnoses wise there is usually a guideline like Bipolar or depression) and the treatment could take years or months depending on the personal experiences or environmental surroundings. I would imagine that poor Cole won’t have the best surroundings.  Cycling back to Cullen I would see this as a similar issue for his PTSD.  I mean come on; in the beginning the poor guy might have relived traumatic events whenever someone cast a spell.

MMG you raise a good point about Cole being a human or not.  I am going off the assumption that he is a typical sentient being.  At least to enough of a degree where there would be complexity for him to become an LI when we meet him.  Maybe if the game progresses forward like DA2 and years were to pass it would be easier to understand.  In that manner you could watch his development and maturity continue on until he was a true adult.  Then at the very end of the game he would be a possible romance.  I feel like having known him in his more adolescent mind it would still feel pretty weird though.  For example, Star wars! She would never have ended up with Anakin Skywalker if she had spent all of those years he was a kid/teenager with him. :P 

Edited multiple times for grammer mistakes.  Need sleep so badly.:mellow:

Modifié par Kirrahe1, 22 novembre 2013 - 08:17 .


#67652
LolaLei

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motomotogirl wrote...

Um, that is all very well and good...... for a human lol Cole, however, is... well, what is he? We don't know.


It's the ending to that book that throws me off. When he does the thing (don't wanna spoil it) he says himself that "Cole is gone"... so IF he is a demon then does that mean that he could actually be an enemy in disguise in DAI? Or is he really "something else" entirely? Is he cohabiting his body like Anders and Wynne were? He's a bit of a mystery really.

#67653
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Um, that is all very well and good...... for a human lol Cole, however, is... well, what is he? We don't know.


It's the ending to that book that throws me off. When he does the thing (don't wanna spoil it) he says himself that "Cole is gone"... so IF he is a demon then does that mean that he could actually be an enemy in disguise in DAI? Or is he really "something else" entirely? Is he cohabiting his body like Anders and Wynne were? He's a bit of a mystery really.

Yeah, that's an important point. For those who haven't finished the book, there's some, um, important extra info at the very end about who/what Cole is. No definitive answers... but I think regardless it reinforces the fact that he's not human. Nor is it clear why he's mimicking a human and particularly a human seemingly "stuck" at a certain age. There are potentially some changes in him in the last moments of the book, but we don't see enough of them to know what they mean beyond some new self-awareness on the part of Cole. I think a real discussion of what Cole really is is rather spoilery, tho.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 22 novembre 2013 - 12:46 .


#67654
Mahumia

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That is pretty much why I already have a hard time picturing him as a companion... At least not yet.

#67655
R2s Muse

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This is a cool description of exactly how word budgets work at BW, the next in DG's series.

David Gaider: On Game Writing - Nuts and Bolts (Part 5)

He even name checks the cut plot about mage!Hawke being investigated by the templars.
"A plot specific to Mage!Hawke in Act 1 where they became threatened by templars and had to make arrangements to assure their secrecy was cut. "

#67656
Mahumia

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Oh, that is nice! I thought he quit at part 4 :D

Edit: whoah, if they are so keen on the amount of lines, it is a good thing I am not a game developer. Posted Image I would 'cut' sentences by adding extra commas. At least, I think they mean 'sentences' when they are speaking about 'lines'.

Modifié par Mahumia, 22 novembre 2013 - 02:54 .


#67657
R2s Muse

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Mahumia wrote...

Oh, that is nice! I thought he quit at part 4 :D

Edit: whoah, if they are so keen on the amount of lines, it is a good thing I am not a game developer. Posted Image I would 'cut' sentences by adding extra commas. At least, I think they mean 'sentences' when they are speaking about 'lines'.

Yeah, I'm curious as to what a "line" is as well. I was figuring lines of code, but I'd love for him to flesh out one of those sections in the plot he's developing and show what it looks like at 30 lines or whatever he budgeted.

#67658
CuriousArtemis

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R2s Muse wrote...

Mahumia wrote...

Edit: whoah, if they are so keen on the amount of lines, it is a good thing I am not a game developer. Posted Image I would 'cut' sentences by adding extra commas. At least, I think they mean 'sentences' when they are speaking about 'lines'.


Yeah, I'm curious as to what a "line" is as well. I was figuring lines of code, but I'd love for him to flesh out one of those sections in the plot he's developing and show what it looks like at 30 lines or whatever he budgeted.


I'm pretty sure "lines" refers to lines of dialogue, as in a script. That is the impression I get. He talked about translating those lines and having VAs speak them, and so forth. It's strange to have a line budget and not a word budget, but oh well.

The English teacher in me is exploding to point out that putting a comma between two sentences just creates a comma splice. 

#67659
Mahumia

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motomotogirl wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Mahumia wrote...

Edit: whoah, if they are so keen on the amount of lines, it is a good thing I am not a game developer. Posted Image I would 'cut' sentences by adding extra commas. At least, I think they mean 'sentences' when they are speaking about 'lines'.


Yeah, I'm curious as to what a "line" is as well. I was figuring lines of code, but I'd love for him to flesh out one of those sections in the plot he's developing and show what it looks like at 30 lines or whatever he budgeted.


I'm pretty sure "lines" refers to lines of dialogue, as in a script. That is the impression I get. He talked about translating those lines and having VAs speak them, and so forth. It's strange to have a line budget and not a word budget, but oh well.

The English teacher in me is exploding to point out that putting a comma between two sentences just creates a comma splice. 


Regarding the bolt part: I am not into a wall of text without punctuation :lol: Here in the Netherlands, longer sentences are considered to be a sign of 'education', as long as it is done properly. I am used to reading legislation, and those guys really make a sport of building looooong sentences... So my example would not be to 'rape' sentences by just stuffing commas in there, but actually rebuilding sentences into grammatically correct yet long sentences, which makes them harder to read. Not that I was offended by your sentence or anything, but wanted to explain my bonkers line of thought anyway :lol:

#67660
CuriousArtemis

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Mahumia wrote...

Regarding the bolt part: I am not into a wall of text without punctuation :lol: Here in the Netherlands, longer sentences are considered to be a sign of 'education', as long as it is done properly. I am used to reading legislation, and those guys really make a sport of building looooong sentences... So my example would not be to 'rape' sentences by just stuffing commas in there, but actually rebuilding sentences into grammatically correct yet long sentences, which makes them harder to read. Not that I was offended by your sentence or anything, but wanted to explain my bonkers line of thought anyway :lol:


Oh, no problem, I was just being silly anyway :P And I love learning about other languages; that's so funny that longer sentences = smart lol 

#67661
LolaLei

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Have all the character talk in "txt speak" that'll solve the problem, LOL!

#67662
CuriousArtemis

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Cullen: U luk hot.
Inquisitor: Ty. ILU.
Cullen: ILU 2.
*kiss*
/end scnene

#67663
LolaLei

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motomotogirl wrote...

Cullen: U luk hot.
Inquisitor: Ty. ILU.
Cullen: ILU 2.
*kiss*
/end scnene


Cullen: "U iz a blud mage!"
Inquisitor: "LOLZ"
Cullen: "Brb!!!"

#67664
CuriousArtemis

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LolaLei wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Cullen: U luk hot.
Inquisitor: Ty. ILU.
Cullen: ILU 2.
*kiss*
/end scnene


Cullen: "U iz a blud mage!"
Inquisitor: "LOLZ"
Cullen: "Brb!!!"


Varric: ROFL :lol:

#67665
R2s Muse

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Bwahahaha !

Vivienne: U H8N mages? *flames erupt from hand*

#67666
Mahumia

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:lol: Oh my, that would be horrible!


Cassandra: *points* 'Da be dragon!'
Inquisitor:  'YOLO!' *charges the dragon*
Vivienne: 'Lawl, forgot them potions'

#67667
CuriousArtemis

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"YOLO" is now officially my Inquisitor's motto LOL

#67668
LolaLei

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Going live on the Legion of Geeks podcast in a few minutes, if any of you are free!

http://www.twitch.tv/scottishwarrior92

#67669
TreeHuggerHannah

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I read about 100 more pages of Asunder before bed last night - amazing how much faster a book goes when you aren't stopping every 5 minutes to do a bed check. This is why I usually don't read at work. ;)


Kirrahe1 wrote...

Hmm…
you know another aspect of this could be environment.


Very much agree with this. I doubt any of Cole's non-magical mental health issues are, say, neurochemical (assuming Cole has neurochemistry etc.) but instead are the result of his traumatic experiences and an environment where he has very little positive socialization and is essentially cut off from society.

I assume it goes without saying that that doesn't make his issues any less valid, but it does mean that being in a supportive environment with opportunities for socialization (for example, an adventuring party that treats him well but doesn't allow his behavior to slip) could result in significant improvement in his mental health.


Of course, we don't know how much is from magic and how much is psychological, so it's still all a wild card.

Poor Cole. He's not a character I find romantically attractive, but I just want to wrap him up in a plan of protective oversight, and a safety plan, and a personal adjustment plan, and teach him coping skills and help him identify his internal and external stressors, and... I can't turn it off! :P

Cycling back to Cullen I would see this as a similar issue for his PTSD.  I mean come on; in the beginning the poor guy might have relived traumatic events whenever someone cast a spell.

Yes! Not only would he be in an environment where he's constantly getting triggered and rather than unlearning hypervigilance he's required to maintain it, but I suspect - though this is only guesswork on my part - that Meredith might have deliberately worked his PTSD to keep him compliant. It would be subtle, but I could see her putting him in situations where his fears were reinforced and where he'd likely be triggered, to keep the wounds fresh and try to prevent him from questioning her methods. Of course that's total headcanon rather than actual canon, but to me it seems like Meredith's MO is to keep people as wary and afraid possible, so I would think she'd home in on Cullen's weak spots and exploit them for her purposes.

Modifié par TreeHuggerHannah, 22 novembre 2013 - 09:12 .


#67670
Potato Cat

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Lola, how could you have never seen Firefly? It's my most favourite show ever!

Modifié par Elfman, 22 novembre 2013 - 10:06 .


#67671
LolaLei

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Elfman wrote...

Lola, how could you have never seen Firefly? It's my most favourite show ever!


I'm really bad at following TV shows, lol.

#67672
R2s Muse

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Elfman wrote...

Lola, how could you have never seen Firefly? It's my most favourite show ever!

*gasp* Lola?!? How could you?

Posted Image

LOL jk. I would agree with the Elfman that it's worth a view! It's also one of my favorite shows of all time. Emphasis on the "show" part. Sad to admit that I don't similarly vouch for the movie... <_<

#67673
TreeHuggerHannah

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LolaLei wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Lola, how could you have never seen Firefly? It's my most favourite show ever!


I'm really bad at following TV shows, lol.


I would strongly recommend it! :) There's only one season, so it's not like you have massive amounts of episodes to catch up on.

As a side note, I recommend watching the show before seeing Serenity. I saw Serenity first because some friends wanted to go, I didn't even know what it was before we got to the theater - and I ended up really liking it, but the reverse order didn't work too well plot-wise and character-wise. ;)

Modifié par TreeHuggerHannah, 22 novembre 2013 - 10:20 .


#67674
R2s Muse

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TreeHuggerHannah wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Lola, how could you have never seen Firefly? It's my most favourite show ever!


I'm really bad at following TV shows, lol.


I would strongly recommend it! :) There's only one season, so it's not like you have massive amounts of episodes to catch up on.

As a side note, I recommend watching the show before seeing Serenity. I saw Serenity first because some friends wanted to go, I didn't even know what it was before we got to the theater - and I ended up really liking it, but the reverse order didn't work too well plot-wise and character-wise. ;)

*sniff*sniff* It's not even a whole season, so def easy to catch em up.

#67675
Potato Cat

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I loved Serenity. The only thing I didn't like about it necessarily was that Mal sort of regressed as a character, but for a movie, you sort of need that little bit of growth. And 14 episodes is a whole season! (Unfortunately) But the first season of Dollhouse was only 14 episodes I think, and Buffy was more or less the same.