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[R2s Muse]

For completeness... since folks often only read the top of the page:

Sheryl's clarification: (emphasis added)

Sheryl Chee wrote...

I'm really sorry some people were insulted by what I said. I didn't mean to be condescending at all. 

Also, when I wrote Cullen, I hadn't heard of Twilight, so any similarities to Edward Cullen are coincidental. I did imagine him to be a young, fairly normal kid torn between his hormones and his duty. Like a more serious Alistair. Later on we decided we needed a templar survivor in the post-Uldred tower, and since people seem to enjoy it when they see people from their past, I decided to make it Cullen. In the beginning, he is sympathetic to the mages, but he comes away very changed by the things Uldred and the demons do to him.

As for the creepy stalker tendencies--er... I think that may have been started by David Gaider's little Cullen Romance snippet. I never imagined him as a creepy stalker. 

Malaia wrote...
So intimating that we're silly girls that latch onto anything that smiles at us is a little harsh, imo.

Well, I don't get the Thane-obsession, or the Teagan obsession, and it has become clear to me that people will want to have romances with/write fanfic about pretty much any character. There is nothing wrong with this. I did not mean to be insulting. God knows I've had my "OMG DRACOOOOOOO!! *heart heart heart drool*" moments. I was expressing regret that I did not realize this at the time of the Broken Circle's writing, or I would have put in a bit more dialog for Cullen and closure for the female mage.

This was from when DA:O came out, so ~4 yrs ago? Sheryl's backtracking was interesting because just previous to this in the same thread, she had just said some rather creepy things about him.
http://social.biowar...583364/2#593386

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Sheryl Chee wrote...
I know right! I'm totally shocked by this too. If I'd known how popular he'd be, I would've written in some kind of closure for him and the femMagePC.

What do you think of him?? Is he tragic oppressed lad or creepy stalker nutcase?

I'd say he starts out tragically oppressed with some tendencies towards creepy stalker (I think you'd have to be, to be a templar). He ends up, I believe, completely broken mentally and emotionally and hates both himself and the femMagePC. I think nothing, not even love, can redeem him. He's too far gone. Of course, that's not canon, it's just my take on it, and I revel in the angst and the pain.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 janvier 2014 - 01:08 .

[R2s Muse]

http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/97/index/583364/3#593533

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Jules8445 wrote...
Angst and pain = = good romance.

Well, from what she said, only if your idea of a good romance involves being chained in a basement, beaten, (eventually) strangled, and buried in a shallow grave.

Yes, there's nothing romantic about the scenario in my mind. I imagine it would be very quick, very violent, and only undertaken as a way to get her out of his system.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 janvier 2014 - 04:03 .

[R2s Muse]

So anyway, I think this old thread on Cullen is a cautionary tale for taking every word the devs say at face value. What does seem clear is that Sheryl's original vision of his fate post Broken Circle is quite different from what ended up happening.

[CuriousArtemis]

R2s Muse wrote...

http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/97/index/583364/3#593533

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Jules8445 wrote...
Angst and pain = = good romance.

Well, from what she said, only if your idea of a good romance involves being chained in a basement, beaten, (eventually) strangled, and buried in a shallow grave.

Yes, there's nothing romantic about the scenario in my mind. I imagine it would be very quick, very violent, and only undertaken as a way to get her out of his system.

...Right, okay. I could've died happy never knowing she wrote that about her own character lol THANKS R2. 

[R2s Muse]

 D'oh! Sorry. 

Anyhoo, as the Defenders of Cullen, it's good to be prepared for the worst! 

Modifié par R2s Muse, 30 janvier 2014 - 04:29 .

[HurricaneGinger]

...Oh my.

That is

wow.

SOMEONE POST A HAPPY PICTURE OF CULLEN.

They certainly did go a different path with him, didn't they?

[Chanda]

Thank god they took a different path with him.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

So anyway, I think this old thread on Cullen is a cautionary tale for taking every word the devs say at face value. What does seem clear is that Sheryl's original vision of his fate post Broken Circle is quite different from what ended up happening.

I like to think that as a character he wrote himself... thank ****!

[Ser Alicia]

PhantomGinger wrote...

...Oh my.

That is

wow.

SOMEONE POST A HAPPY PICTURE OF CULLEN.

They certainly did go a different path with him, didn't they?

Yes, ma'am!



(I know it's a GIF, not a picture, but whatever.)

(EDIT: Also, I didn't make this GIF. I found it on the f***yeahcullen tumblr page.)

Modifié par TheBioticAssassin, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:07 .

[R2s Muse]

[R2s Muse]

[Adela]

edit nvm I thoght it was something inportant

Modifié par ag99, 30 janvier 2014 - 05:02 .

[Ilidan_DA]

Hi Cullen thread

[Dirgegun]

Heeeey, Wiedzmin~!

[Adela]

hi Wiedzmin

[Rinshikai10]

R2s Muse wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

@ motomotogirl

Its been a while since I played DA2, but the easiest example I can give is the Anders friendship/rivalry when it comes to Justice. If we are friendly to Anders he accepts Justice as part of him, and will reject him is rivaled.

The same goes for Cullen, if we encourage mercy he tends to show it even though he appears to dislike this decision (just my opinion) , and will go more zealot if we encourage that.

While I have seen many posters that are fanatical when it comes to bashing Cullen, there are also a fair amount that dislike him for reasonable things. I personally don't see Cullen as a lunatic, I believe that he is a human being. However, I'm not a fan of him, due to the decisions I saw him make throughout DA2.

There are definitely reasons to be annoyed with him. In trying to wrack my brain about the Beth comment, it made me recall that my very first Hawke reeeaaallly didn't like him. Taking Beth to the Circle was heart breaking, and Serenity Hawke definitely almost threw down.



But ironically, I don't think there are actually too many decisions Cullen actually gets to  make on his own in DA2. Until the end. Pretty much he's always influenced by either Meredith or Hawke.

But I do think you're right that in certain situations you can encourage him to be more extreme by your own extreme actions. Like in Best Served Cold you can tell him to go medieval on Alain or to spare him. His dialogue if you go medieval is pretty harsh. Also with Samson.

You and I are going to have to disagree on this. While Cullen has limited decisions on what he can do, he still has more then one opinion in any given situation. It not just take the mage away or kill them, Cullen could have let Bethany go. But, after everything that has happened to him, I get the impression that he only sees the two options. This is just my view but I believe Cullen deliberately tries to see the situation in a black and white fashion so that he doesn't have to deal with the possibility that he may be wrong about some Mages and the system as a whole.   

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 30 janvier 2014 - 06:55 .

[LolaLei]

Lol, that's Cullen in a nut shell. He seems to have conflicting opinions on most things, from what I can tell.

[LolaLei]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

 I get the impression that he only sees the two options. This is just my view but I believe Cullen deliberately tries to see the situation in a black and white fashion so that he doesn't have to deal with the possibility that he may be wrong about some Mages and the system as a whole.   

You're spot on.

Towards the end of Act 3 when he's beginning to have doubts etc, he says he promised himself years ago that he would never again question the Order (after what happened to him in DA:O), so I think that he definitely put any doubts that may have lingered (if any) to the back of his mind and dealt with the situations in DA2 in black and white.

Now, this is just speculation, but by the end of DA2 when he finally takes action (albeit it too late) I feel like maybe that was the catalyst that shook his entire belief system. It may be that in DAI he's had a crisis of faith, guilt over the way he handled things in DA2 and stuff like that... then again, the writers could just as easily turn him into a red lyrium crazed loon. But that's the beauty of his character, he could literally go any number of ways.

[CuriousArtemis]

LolaLei wrote...

Rinshikai10 wrote...

 I get the impression that he only sees the two options. This is just my view but I believe Cullen deliberately tries to see the situation in a black and white fashion so that he doesn't have to deal with the possibility that he may be wrong about some Mages and the system as a whole.   

You're spot on.

Towards the end of Act 3 when he's beginning to have doubts etc, he says he promised himself years ago that he would never again question the Order (after what happened to him in DA:O), so I think that he definitely put any doubts that may have lingered (if any) to the back of his mind and dealt with the situations in DA2 in black and white.

Now, this is just speculation, but by the end of DA2 when he finally takes action (albeit it too late) I feel like maybe that was the catalyst that shook his entire belief system. It may be that in DAI he's had a crisis of faith, guilt over the way he handled things in DA2 and stuff like that... then again, the writers could just as easily turn him into a red lyrium crazed loon. But that's the beauty of his character, he could literally go any number of ways.

I agree and don't think it conflicts with what R2 thinks at all  These kinds of honorable characters who see the world in black and white and struggle to overcome some great trauma... they tend to be my favorites. (Think Kuchiki Byakuya from Bleach if you're an anime fan.) What is most attractive to me about Cullen is that he truly is a good and honorable man, but he has been through such trauma, and he has such a personality that he can't divorce his feelings from his duty... he's such a complex and human character. So ripe for further development.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 30 janvier 2014 - 07:51 .

[Rinshikai10]

@ motomotogirl

I find things like good and honor to be more a matter of perspective then a absolute fact. Cullen like any other character can have his good and bad qualities.

One moment for me that I found hypocritical about Cullen was when he accused Alain of only acting out of convenience when he defied Grace then later he does the same thing against Meredith. I know the he is only human argument with come up, but that's just my opinion about the situation we as players were shown.

@Lolalei

If Cullen does have a crisis of faith, where his has guilt over how he personally handled Kirkwall. I believe that it would be interesting to see him in a Chantry praying aloud for the Makers forgiveness.

[LolaLei]

Admittedly, the thing I found hypocritical of Cullen was when he wanted to boot Keran out of the Order in case he had been possessed. Now, I get that he has to be wary and cautious, but baring in mind he went through the same ordeal for much longer and managed to stay strong and fight off the demon's offers you would have thought that he would have been a little more sympathetic, lol.

[LolaLei]

Rinshikai10: Yeah, I'd like to see that too. I'd kinda like to see him protect a group of mages in DAI to the point of maybe risking his life fighting off demons/red Templars/whatever allowing the Inquisitor enough time to escape with the mages. An act to redeem himself.

Of course, I'd like the option for him to not die whilst making his "final stand" if you happened to complete certain quests/things for him (like in ME2 where if they were loyal they'd survive). That way those who want him dead can get there wish, and those who want him to live/romance him get what they want, too.

Modifié par LolaLei, 31 janvier 2014 - 12:23 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

I find things like good and honor to be more a matter of perspective then a absolute fact. Cullen like any other character can have his good and bad qualities.

100% Agree.

Rinshikai10 wrote...

One moment for me that I found hypocritical about Cullen was when he accused Alain of only acting out of convenience when he defied Grace then later he does the same thing against Meredith. I know the he is only human argument with come up, but that's just my opinion about the situation we as players were shown. 

Also 100% agree, and it really grinds my gears because believe it or not I AM ALAIN'S #1 FAN <3<3<3<3

So yeah 

And I would never do anything crazy like ship them together.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 31 janvier 2014 - 12:45 .

[CuriousArtemis]

LolaLei wrote...

Admittedly, the thing I found hypocritical of Cullen was when he wanted to boot Keran out of the Order in case he had been possessed. Now, I get that he has to be wary and cautious, but baring in mind he went through the same ordeal for much longer and managed to stay strong and fight off the demon's offers you would have thought that he would have been a little more sympathetic, lol.

Poor Cullen. Always at the mercy of the player's Hawke's decision-making 

No, but it can be neat if you think about it; he's overreacting out of fear. Maybe (obviously) what happened to him still haunts him, and the thought of someone else being possessed and it going unnoticed, living among them, utterly terrifies him.

[LolaLei]

No doubt about it, but I wish he had made a blurb about it or been given the option to call him out on it, lol.

I still wonder how much of his shortcomings was also down to the game being rushed. There are things that don't always add up with his ambient dialogue in the Gallows when compared to some of the encounters we have with him later in the game (the sibling/LI kidnapping being one of them).