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[Xilizhra]

Meredith is a viciously abusive parent in personality. Basically, she's a prettier and more articulate version of the Dwarf Commoner's mom.

[R2s Muse]

meanieweenie wrote...

I do enjoy the grey areas that make for great decision making angst in these games. However, I think they should at least give us one good "this is evil" target. I love shades of grey, but I feel like the thing that made DA:O so much more was that there was one giant icky that everyone agrred needed to be stopped.

Agree. And, for all that I wish Meredith hadn't  gone to the crazy, I ran into the same thing in my own fic. I made a  point of the antagonist not being incarnate evil, not being demon-influenced, just being zealous and angry... but then, it makes our heroes look bad if they actually kill someone who's not a warrior (and was clergy!)  just for being "the bad guy." Sooo, enter demon, stage left. LOL

So, in DA2, yeah, there were so many grey issues, they probably  had to make it crystal clear that Meredith was the Big Bad and had to go down.

[meanieweenie]

Time for nite nite. I'll dream of you all.... mad from red lyrium and attacking poor unsuspecting townsfolk with thier paddles of mighty smiting. lol

[R2s Muse]

meanieweenie wrote...

Time for nite nite. I'll dream of you all.... mad from red lyrium and attacking poor unsuspecting townsfolk with thier paddles of mighty smiting. lol

For me as well... altho  hopefully minus the creepy lyrium dreaming... ;)

[LolaLei]

Precisely, she felt like she'd lost some of the power she had when Hawke started "interfering" in her business. I think she realised that Hawke was quickly becoming the voice of Kirkwall and people where looking to him/her for help/guidance, so she cooked up a plan to kill Hawke, under the guise of just arresting him/her.

[TEWR]

Conceptually, the lyrium idol did have a lot of potential. As this is a topic I've gone over before and don't really wish to get into again -- for lack of energy, really -- I'll give off the three main reasons it had potential (IMO).

1) Had it been done properly, it could've cast a grey area on just what caused Meredith to become the de-facto dictator of Kirkwall and call for the Annulment -- which would've also required Act 3 to not be such a crapfest, where there's a solid reason for the Annulment even if the Mages of the Circle themselves didn't blow up the Chantry. Was it the idol, or Meredith's bias against mages and an earnest belief that only she could help Kirkwall?

2) To showcase the old adage about how power corrupts in both the literal and figurative sense -- meaning the idol's power corrupted her and the power of being the effective Viscount corrupted her.

3) When she goes into statue form, that serves as a brutal testament to what happened at the Gallows, as she's apparently fused into the very courtyard itself now.

You see trace elements of 1 and more of 2, but ultimately Bioware ruined it and it just becomes pretty shallow and meaningless.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 04 août 2012 - 02:54 .

[Ravensword]

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think the Chantry is at all necessary to help Thedas, really. It could be useful in some circumstances, but there are so many better possibilities out there...

Agree. I also think Thedas is stuck with it, theologically, and at it's core, it's not inherently bad. Even the whole 'magic is meant to serve man' thing really is talking about maleficars, not all mages. I think the problem's in the implementation of Andraste's words. Hopefully they'll be able to rethink the structural aspects of how to treat mages. Like, somehow reintegrate them into society, but help them control their magic.

Every religion seems to have problems w/ the implementation of their respective deity's/deities' words.

[TEWR]

meanieweenie wrote...

OMG... I decided to take the first bubble bath in about 10 months.
Me - "Honey, I'm getting in the tub. Feed the boy."
Him -"Uh, ok. I'll take care of it."
Later....
Me -"Hey kid, what'd ya have for dinner?"
Kid -"Dad gave me a bowl of gummi bears."

FOR REAL???? <sigh>

Awesome dinner is awesome.

[LolaLei]

Xilizhra wrote...

Meredith is a viciously abusive parent in personality. Basically, she's a prettier and more articulate version of the Dwarf Commoner's mom.

Ha! You're spot on there! I'd completely forgotten about her.

[LolaLei]

Oooo page 290! We're not far off 300 pages now! What shall we do for it this time round? A wall of Cullen?

[LolaLei]

I've been playing through DA2 again this evening and I just got to the part where we meet Cullen for the first time. I absolutely adore how his voice switches from professional and manly/grown up to suddenly very young and innocent the minute he mentions the "young ladies" of the Blooming Rose, it's freakin' adorable!

Gah he'd make such a fun companion!

[berelinde]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Of course since David Gaider is David Gaider, he had to go and make Lambert's assumptions about Cole be completely correct (just to keep things in the gray). Dammit. 

Unless he did it on the forums, he didn't. The Litany of Adrala is *not* abomination-specific. If it were, Wynne would have died when you use it in DA:O. And in the epilogue of Asunder, Cole shows up personally to Lambert to tell him that he doesn't know everything in a very dramatic way. Unless I'm mistaken, DG has said that Cole isn't a demon, nor is he a ghost. He's something else entirely. My guess is that he's the physical manifestation of the fear and pain that has been accumulating in the White Spire for 700+ years, but that's just a guess. Knowing DG, we may never find out the truth.

[berelinde]

Interesting conversation going on vis Meredith, red lyrium, and religion, but I missed the bulk of it by being asleep. Regarding the religion thing, a lot of my knee-jerk aversion to the chantry stems from having had a parent like the relatives meanieweenie unfriended. Anyway, that's getting too deep into the realm of oversharing, so we'll leave that there.

I adore how Cullen switches from being all professional to being awkward and endearingly human. It makes me wonder if he finds it difficult to maintain a public facade when his true personality is rather shy and introverted. I would stop just shy of saying that he has a Batman voice (or I'd say it but be perfectly willing to accept other interpretations), but it's pretty clear that his game face doesn't always match up with the one he wears when there's nobody around to see it.

[LolaLei]

Yeah, Cullen definitely puts on a professional voice/fascade when working, I guess it's similar to the way that some people have a "telephone/work voice" which is generally more well spoken/polite than their usual everyday voice (or at least mine is, but I do tend to swear like a trooper IRL lol.) But in Cullen's case I think he does it to keep an air of authority and maintain a safe professional distance from people... I'd even go as far to say that he may be doing it in an attempt to "fake" confidence in order to hide his uncertainty/awkwardness, hoping that eventually he'll convince himself that he's a "big confident manly Templar."

Over the two games, the one thing that struck me about him is that he doesn't ever seem to be completely sure of himself, maybe that's another reason why he comments on how our Warden had always been so confident, when she tells him that she knew she'd pass her Harrowing. I'd say he definitely admires people who are confident enough to take on challenges and survive in the face of adversity, not realising that he too has done exactly that. I think the poor boy just needs a little affection and reassurance.

[LolaLei]

Latest Mike DA3 related tweet:

Mike Laidlaw: "For a week where I was supposed to be off, but was in at work, it was pretty kick ass. Things…made progress. Wonderful…things."

RyanSkursky: "@RyanSkursky: "Can we please hear about those things!? Dying to hear about some DA news! Anything at all!"

Mike Laidlaw: "I would if I could, but I still think it’s better to wait. No rushing."


Hm, DA3 news is very thin on the ground at the moment. I wonder if they're being extra tight lipped so that they don't have a repeat of ME3 where the script and everything else gets leaked?

Modifié par LolaLei, 04 août 2012 - 03:22 .

[PizzaThe Hutt]

I'm glad they're taking their time though. Better to take your time and make a wonderful game than to rush and screw things up. EA probably learned from their mistake(hopefully)

[Melca36]

I still predict the major announcement will be in November during the VGA awards on Spike TV.

They did the exact same thing for ME3 back in 2010 and I have no doubt they will do the same for ME3. There will be an announcement along with a Machinima trailer and then there will be a brand new DA:3 section on the boards.

My other guess is it could be announced during Games.Con in Germany because that is one the biggest conventions in Europe but thats at the end of August I believe and nothing has been said about that.

[Xilizhra]

So, I've finished Asunder and determined that... yes, the templars are fairly solidly villainous in it, and the pattern seems to continue that the only good templars are the ones who leave the Order. I wonder what Cullen will do in that case...

[PizzaThe Hutt]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, I've finished Asunder and determined that... yes, the templars are fairly solidly villainous in it, and the pattern seems to continue that the only good templars are the ones who leave the Order. I wonder what Cullen will do in that case...

I'm sure when the Templar order first began, they were pretty okay but after a while they just became something terrible...  Kinda like government...  I sometimes wonder what would happen if the Order were to simply topple in on itself(as it somewhat seems will happen, only speculation though)  I'm sure this is a rather bad time to start toppling though, what with a possible Qunari invasion, godbabies, flemeth, darkspawn, Tevinter, etc...  I also wonder what will happen what with all of these mages going blood mage, would a huge Fade tear happen?  Poor Cullen's going to have a lot on his hands...

[Melca36]

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

It makes me wonder what kind of experience we would have had with Meredith without the idol. Honestly. She was obviously pretty flawed in her leadership *cough*Alrik*cough* but if you choose to take your investigation missions from her.... I dunno. I got the distinct impression that she actually cared about the mages quite deeply. Like a parent who sucks at parenting, but still has some affection for the kid.

... which made Cullen the awkward big brother sitting at the breakfast table, trying to eat his cereal loudly enough that he could pretend an argument wasn't going on in the kitchen. 

I was also kinda disappointed at the "lyrium did it" reason for her behavior. It would have been much more interesting to me if we'd had to deal with her reasons being her reasons. Of course, her insanity made it much easier to have a clear side of "right" at the end, and a clear reason to kill her instead of just overthrow her and put her in jail, so for storytelling, I understand it. But, a villain who much more nuanced would be cool.

It was clear when you first landed in Kirkwall and to those cityguard before entering Kirkwall that Meredith was running things.   Dumar was merely a puppet. Thrask said as did Orsino, Templars are supposed to watch over the mages and not wield any sort of political power.

Kirkwall essentially became a theocracy by the end of ACT 3.

My theory is that while the game will be loosely based on the events of the last book, we will also discover secrets the Chantry want to keep buried and that could cause everybody in Thedas to question their beliefs.

I also believe there will be a massive invasion of Qunari that will end up changing the war. Sten in DAOrigins said there would one day be an invasion, the Arishok said they would return. 

[Melca36]

PizzaThe Hutt wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So, I've finished Asunder and determined that... yes, the templars are fairly solidly villainous in it, and the pattern seems to continue that the only good templars are the ones who leave the Order. I wonder what Cullen will do in that case...

I'm sure when the Templar order first began, they were pretty okay but after a while they just became something terrible...  Kinda like government...  I sometimes wonder what would happen if the Order were to simply topple in on itself(as it somewhat seems will happen, only speculation though)  I'm sure this is a rather bad time to start toppling though, what with a possible Qunari invasion, godbabies, flemeth, darkspawn, Tevinter, etc...  I also wonder what will happen what with all of these mages going blood mage, would a huge Fade tear happen?  Poor Cullen's going to have a lot on his hands...

I think its going to go beyond that. I think there will be mages fighting blood mages.  If a mage is willing to fight and kill blood mages, they should be given more freedom. I think if they are truly willing to fight their own, they could be trusted.

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I'd prefer to get as many blood mages on my side as possible.

[Melca36]

Xilizhra wrote...

Personally, I'd prefer to get as many blood mages on my side as possible.

I think that will happen when they are all forced to join together.

[meanieweenie]

Melca36 wrote...

My theory is that while the game will be loosely based on the events of the last book, we will also discover secrets the Chantry want to keep buried and that could cause everybody in Thedas to question their beliefs.

I also believe there will be a massive invasion of Qunari that will end up changing the war. Sten in DAOrigins said there would one day be an invasion, the Arishok said they would return. 

A Qunari invasion would certainly throw a monkey wrench into a mage / Templar battle. What better time to overthrow a nation than when they've got thier own civil war happening? Then again, sometimes a common enemy will bring two oposing sides together, even if only for a temporary truce.

[PizzaThe Hutt]

Like some HUGE battle between mages, blood mages and Templars and than a huge tear in the fade right in the middle of the battlefield. Flemeth rides in and a bunch of daemons and spirits, etc come flying in and all hell breaks loose!