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[Ispan]

I highly doubt they'll ever do that, though, since it seems that allowing faith to be faith is one of the tenets they used to build the world. DG has talked about it several times, most recently on his tumblr.

 

I was JUST about to link this! 

 

Or his entry on the fade, I like this quote because I'm totally obsessed with this Deep Lore internal wiki idea.

 

 

The Golden City/Black City, meanwhile, was a very separate thing—and I can’t actually talk about how it came to be without also discussing the Deep Lore…namely, those pages in our internal wiki which are off limits save to a few folks, which talk about some of the foundational truths in DA’s history. The Big Stuff, which we need to know the truth behind just so we’re consistent, even if we might not necessarily ever reveal any of it. Some mysteries, after all, are lessened the moment they’re defined.

 

I don't mind a little secrecy!

[LolaLei]

Could be. It still raises some questions about Alistair's templar abilities, suggesting that despite his protestations I guess he must have had a least a little lyrium in order to the learn the abilities in the first place. 

 

I could still see lyrium being a source of control, like you say, that the Chantry/Order would *prefer* that they remain addicted. I wonder if how much lyrium you take would affect, say, how powerful your smites are or whatever. Maybe there's a chemical reason for the doses to be addiction-level. 

 

Yeah, I mean it's clear that lyrium obviously enhances their skills and grants them access to things like "smite" etc, but you can bet your arse the Chantry have taken full advantage of it's addictive qualities when it comes to controlling the Templars.

 

Which is why this rebellion and red lyrium thing is so interesting.

[R2s Muse]

Yeah, I mean it's clear that lyrium obviously enhances their skills and grants them access to things like "smite" etc, but you can bet your arse the Chantry have taken full advantage of it's addictive qualities when it comes to controlling the Templars.

 

Which is why this rebellion and red lyrium thing is so interesting.

Yeah, hard to say. I mean, after eight years, Alistair still seems to be able to kick some serious mage butt, if the comics are to be believed, and presumably he's not addicted. Grrr, lyrium lore... 

[Xilizhra]

LOL His? Or mine? 

 

In my opinion, I hope they never explain it. Not being faithful myself, I adore the notion of it in Thedas. I like that there are open questions and contradictions between the creation myths between religions. And, like L Xendria said, I think these open questions underpin much of the world state in Thedas. I personally think it would lose something if Andraste suddenly showed up in Hawke's kitchen one day to explain how, yes, she was a mage, and BTW, the Maker was a fantastic lay. 

 

So there you go, one more annoying answer.  

His.

 

I strongly disagree with him on the "importance of faith" matter, as it implies that the only things you can have faith in are things you can't prove, a notion that I despise. I also hate being kept in the dark in general, especially by design. When a mystery is solved, I don't think anything is lost.

[CuriousArtemis]

LOL One thing to keep in mind is that the first time DA did this, the first DA graphic novel was written THE Orson Scott Card. Ahem. And let's just say that many folks deem it, erm, unworthy. 
 
So, just sayin', it could still be awesome. If it's real.

:-O I did not know that. Card is a piece of bigoted trash; I'd never read anything by him!

[CuriousArtemis]

I personally think it would lose something if Andraste suddenly showed up in Hawke's kitchen one day to explain how, yes, she was a mage, and BTW, the Maker was a fantastic lay. 
 
So there you go, one more annoying answer.  

Don't be crazy; best idea for a DLC ever!

[R2s Muse]

His.

 

I strongly disagree with him on the "importance of faith" matter, as it implies that the only things you can have faith in are things you can't prove, a notion that I despise. I also hate being kept in the dark in general, especially by design. When a mystery is solved, I don't think anything is lost.

Well, I totally get where you're coming from. But, hey, I figure if that's an important element of the story they want to tell with DA, then they should go for it. I still would LOVE to know what really happened in the Black City, and what is the true nature of the Old Gods, whether they're actually dragons or spirits or gods, or what, what was the world like "before the Veil", the list goes on... but I still sorta hope I never find out. It gives me more of a chance to come up with my own theories by reading (too much) into the Chant. LOL 

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah, hard to say. I mean, after eight years, Alistair still seems to be able to kick some serious mage butt, if the comics are to be believed, and presumably he's not addicted. Grrr, lyrium lore... 

I think you mean "Grr Dragon Age lore" in general

[Dirgegun]

LOL His? Or mine? 

 

In my opinion, I hope they never explain it. Not being faithful myself, I adore the notion of it in Thedas. I like that there are open questions and contradictions between the creation myths between religions. And, like L Xendria said, I think these open questions underpin much of the world state in Thedas and it would lose something if Andraste suddenly showed up in Hawke's kitchen one day to explain how, yes, she was a mage, and BTW, the Maker was a fantastic lay. 

 

So there you go, one more annoying answer.  

 

The maker was a fantastic lay.   

 

At the risk of revealing more than I should, I am spiritual, but I don't personally believe in what many churches and organisations demand. What I like about the faith in Dragon Age is how they show the differences between interpretations within that particular religion -- Leliana's interpretation, Anders' interpretation, and the interpretation the Chantry encourages are very different and very real. And Leliana's and Ander's interpretations are very close to my own within my own spirituality. 

 

What I dislike about the idea of revealing the Maker as a big bad or anything like that is that it suddenly says that, no, faith is BAD. Your religion, no matter how you personally interpret it is BAD. And there's no way around the 'rules' of the religion set down by an organisation you don't necessarily agree with in that case. The faith is bad and thus you are a bad person for having faith in a 'bad' God.

 

That's why I prefer the untold/mysterious version. People can interpret it as bad if they like, but at least it's not outright condemned within the lore for those who want to believe Anders' or Leliana's interpretations are the correct ones.

 

And let's be honest, there'd probably be a lot of pissed off people if the Maker was shown as a 'good' God. So the mysterious path is the best here, I think. And I personally don't see leaving faith as an unanswered question as a bad thing in this context. As soon as Gods are brought into the equation as physical beings suddenly plots become "well, why didn't they get off their arse and do this for me?" instead of "BRB, gotta go save the day."

 

There's also big difference between using religion of any kind, even if fictional in this case, to defend personal bigotries and the religion being bigoted itself.

[CuriousArtemis]

Well, I totally get where you're coming from. But, hey, I figure if that's an important element of the story they want to tell with DA, then they should go for it. I still would LOVE to know what really happened in the Black City, and what is the true nature of the Old Gods, whether they're actually dragons or spirits or gods, or what, what was the world like "before the Veil", the list goes on... but I still sorta hope I never find out. It gives me more of a chance to come up with my own theories by reading (too much) into the Chant. LOL

I confess I do really want to know these things. I do respect characters of faith, but I also just like to KNOW things LOL

[Lord Xendria]

Personally, I rarely make characters that favour the Chantry. The White or the Black. I'd like to know more, whatever they wish to tell, but other things interest me more.

 

Hopefully since we can be Dalish again, and if Inquisition delves into any Elvhen mysteries, we can learn more about their pantheon. That interests me much more.

[CuriousArtemis]

 
What I dislike about the idea of revealing the Maker as a big bad or anything like that is that it suddenly says that, no, faith is BAD. Your religion, no matter how you personally interpret it is BAD. And there's no way around the 'rules' of the religion set down by an organisation you don't necessarily agree with in that case. The faith is bad and thus you are a bad person for having faith in a 'bad' God.

I very much respect your feelings, but it don't think you should take it like that. That's just what the deity ended up being in this particular story. I could write a novel where God is a fraud and a monster, then I could write another novel where God is a benevolent being. It would be no reflection on my writers, just that I had two different stories to tell.

[R2s Muse]

I very much respect your feelings, but it don't think you should take it like that. That's just what the deity ended up being in this particular story. I could write a novel where God is a fraud and a monster, then I could write another novel where God is a benevolent being. It would be no reflection on my writers, just that I had two different stories to tell.

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what Dirgegun said, but I was thinking of it as how it would then reflect on the characters in the world. That if they did that with the Maker then it kind of makes folks like Leliana and Cullen out to be fools for believing in a bad God. Yeah, it's just a story, and who knows, that could be the kind of story that the DA writers have set out to tell. But I still think that for some that would be an uncomfortable story to be a part of. 

[Xilizhra]

There's also big difference between using religion of any kind, even if fictional in this case, to defend personal bigotries and the religion being bigoted itself.

Not as much as some might think. Since a religion in a vacuum is simply a set of ideas, it cannot take action and is as bigoted or otherwise as the people within it. As of now, the vast majority of Andrastianism is highly bigoted.

[Dirgegun]

I very much respect your feelings, but it don't think you should take it like that. That's just what the deity ended up being in this particular story. I could write a novel where God is a fraud and a monster, then I could write another novel where God is a benevolent being. It would be no reflection on my writers, just that I had two different stories to tell.

 

Ah, that is true, and I don't mind that! But in stories like that there tends to be tells, you know? But the Maker is written as rather ambiguous and I think to suddenly go 'LOL, NOPE, he's a complete dick route'... well, I guess it COULD work but I would prefer it not? And the same goes for the Elven Gods? I guess I just find the religious aspect in Dragon Age so fascinating that I don't want it brought down to black and white and would prefer it remain ambiguous? Especially when there's a lot of stories that deal with good/evil Gods but few I've found that deal with that ambiguity. 

 

I wouldn't be insulted if they went the bad or good God route, but I would be a little disappointed at a part of the lore I find interesting and very real to suddenly be turned into something that seems simple, I guess I mean?

[Dirgegun]

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what Dirgegun said, but I was thinking of it as how it would then reflect on the characters in the world. That if they did that with the Maker then it kind of makes folks like Leliana and Cullen out to be fools for believing in a bad God. Yeah, it's just a story, and who knows, that could be the kind of story that the DA writers have set out to tell. But I still think that for some that would be an uncomfortable story to be a part of. 

 

Ah yes, this! People saying what I mean far better than I can.

[Xilizhra]

Ah, that is true, and I don't mind that! But in stories like that there tends to be tells, you know? But the Maker is written as rather ambiguous and I think to suddenly go 'LOL, NOPE, he's a complete dick route'... well, I guess it COULD work but I would prefer it not? And the same goes for the Elven Gods? I guess I just find the religious aspect in Dragon Age so fascinating that I don't want it brought down to black and white and would prefer it remain ambiguous? Especially when there's a lot of stories that deal with good/evil Gods but few I've found that deal with that ambiguity. 

 

I wouldn't be insulted if they went the bad or good God route, but I would be a little disappointed at a part of the lore I find interesting and very real to suddenly be turned into something that seems simple, I guess I mean?

But... the Maker is already a colossal dick even in the Chantry's version, they just suck up to him. He abandoned the world and set the darkspawn on it.
 

I want to go to the Deep Roads, kill a broodmother, drag her back up to the surface, leave her at the Chantry's doorstep and pin a note on her saying "This was the Maker's idea."

[alwayshungry]

From the twitter thread:

 

Retweeted by David Gaider

Caroline Livingstone ‏@CabLivingstone 

Just hanging out with the unbelievably talented @TemplemanSimon.....feels like old times #DAI

[CuriousArtemis]

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what Dirgegun said, but I was thinking of it as how it would then reflect on the characters in the world. That if they did that with the Maker then it kind of makes folks like Leliana and Cullen out to be fools for believing in a bad God. Yeah, it's just a story, and who knows, that could be the kind of story that the DA writers have set out to tell. But I still think that for some that would be an uncomfortable story to be a part of.

I don't see how, unless there was overwhelming evidence that the deity was evil, yet the "stupid" characters (as presented by the author) continued to believe anyway. Which would not be the case with DA, as characters like Cullen and Leliana have been written with respect, not disdain.

[Dirgegun]

Not as much as some might think. Since a religion in a vacuum is simply a set of ideas, it cannot take action and is as bigoted or otherwise as the people within it. As of now, the vast majority of Andrastianism is highly bigoted.

 

Well, there's no text within the Andrastian lore that says 'lock mages up and treat them like lesser people! Also treat elves like lesser people 'cause they don't follow our God, those dirty heathens.' That's what I mean by the religion itself not being bigoted. It's the organisation of the religion that interprets the text 'magic is to serve God and not rule over him' as 'mages are the evils!'

[CuriousArtemis]

I wouldn't be insulted if they went the bad or good God route, but I would be a little disappointed at a part of the lore I find interesting and very real to suddenly be turned into something that seems simple, I guess I mean?

I can understand that; I think so long as it's well written I'll be happy. I trust DG

[LolaLei]

Oh, apparently that new book is real.

[Xilizhra]

Well, there's no text within the Andrastian lore that says 'lock mages up and treat them like lesser people! Also treat elves like lesser people 'cause they don't follow our God, those dirty heathens.' That's what I mean by the religion itself not being bigoted. It's the organisation of the religion that interprets the text 'magic is to serve God and not rule over him' as 'mages are the evils!'

It does say, however, to make sure that everyone is following this religion, so extrapolating that one should deal harshly with those who follow other religions is far easier than not. As for the bit about mages... that's why I prefer the Imperial Chantry's interpretation.

[Dirgegun]

But... the Maker is already a colossal dick even in the Chantry's version, they just suck up to him. He abandoned the world and set the darkspawn on it.
 

I want to go to the Deep Roads, kill a broodmother, drag her back up to the surface, leave her at the Chantry's doorstep and pin a note on her saying "This was the Maker's idea."

 

There's also the interpretation that no one really knows where the Darkspawn come from, and that the written text of their origin was the idea of whoever wrote that part of the chant-- and it's been said that the city was already black when the magisters arrived so--! This is what I meant by the religion being ambiguous, rather than black and white. 

[R2s Muse]

But... the Maker is already a colossal dick even in the Chantry's version, they just suck up to him. He abandoned the world and set the darkspawn on it.
 

I want to go to the Deep Roads, kill a broodmother, drag her back up to the surface, leave her at the Chantry's doorstep and pin a note on her saying "This was the Maker's idea."

Bwahaha! Sorry, this just made me laugh. I hope they do this.