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[The Elder King]

Hawke basically says he'll keep a hold of it, though I forget the exact attitude behind the words and Merrill is rightfully furious about the decision. Not only did she do the Keeper's task for it, but her cultural items and heritage have nothing to do with a shem. I think that's the only time you hear Merrill call Hawke a shem, actually.

Well, Merrill is obviously enraged. I just can't remember if Hawke was a jerk about it.
About the demon, I have a very clear anti-demon stance. I'm wary about spirits too, and I don't like much the concept of spirit possession (though I'm willing to give the Rivaini the benefit of the doubt, since we have no clue if they take countermeasures or in what way the judge the candidates. Anders was in my opinion certainly a moron to try It).
That said, I don't have much problem with how Merrill approached the demon. Yes, it's still very dangerous to deal with one, but she just used the knowledge in blood magic to repair the Eluvian. She knew that the demon wanted something (possibly herself), but she didn't contact him and she take measures to prevent herself to be possessed (Hawke).
I'd certainly prefer if she didn't approach Audacity, but she was very careful. And she's one of the few blood mages who limits her she of it and not takes advantage of it for controlling others (I certainly don't see how using it in combat is worse than fireballing someone).

[Potato Cat]

One of the things that makes me the most uncomfortable is how the Dalish clan will only live if you blame Merrill for the decisions the Keeper made. So it goes unsaid that the clan is dead as dead in my game. orz

I never understood the need for that final fight. It perplexed me rather than made me uncomfortable. I can't help but think it was one of those Orsino turning to blood magic moments where they thought they needed an extra fight. I keep them alive, but I like to headcanon that bit doesn't happen. I think it just ruins the moment.

[The Elder King]

Yeah she doesn't trust the demon, but its using her pride to make her think she won't be possessed, that she can outsmart it and help her people. If you don't rival her, she ultimately keeps this fatal flaw and continues working with the mirror. And who knows how this will play into the Masked Empire and Dragon Age Inquisition, especially now the Veil has been ripped open. I just think it'll be so much better for Merrill if the mirror is out of her life, lest she lose it.

But she took measures for preventing possession. It's not like she trusted him and went to him alone. She knew the demon would try something, and she didn't think she was strong enough to face it alone.

[The Elder King]

I never understood the need for that final fight. It perplexed me rather than made me uncomfortable. I can't help but think it was one of those Orsino turning to blood magic moments where they thought they needed an extra fight. I keep them alive, but I like to headcanon that bit doesn't happen. I think it just ruins the moment.

Sadly, it wasn't just the fight. Pol preferring to face the varterral instead of staying in a place with Merrill is completely moronic.

[Dirgegun]

Yeah she doesn't trust the demon, but its using her pride to make her think she won't be possessed, that she can outsmart it and help her people. If you don't rival her, she ultimately keeps this fatal flaw and continues working with the mirror. And who knows how this will play into the Masked Empire and Dragon Age Inquisition, especially now the Veil has been ripped open. I just think it'll be so much better for Merrill if the mirror is out of her life, lest she lose it.

 

Actually, it's the complete opposite. She believes possession is a very real threat which is why she sets up her countermeasures. She doesn't go into her second encounter with the demon with arrogance at all but rather caution and determination to be prepared. It was the Keeper's arrogance that leads her to make the decisions she does, believing Merrill completely incapable of defending herself and handling the situation intelligently. There's love there too, I'm not denying that at all, the Keeper obviously cared for Merrill as one of her children, but still, it's the Keeper's own decisions that mess things up. Not Merrill's.

 

And on the friendship path she does, if I remember rightly, move past the mirror, though there's no 'break the mirror!' cut scene.

 

I would have nothing against the rivalry path if it was executed better, because I do think the mirror is dangerous, and that it isn't worth her losing her family. However I can't agree with how the rivalry path was executed at all. Not when there's such terrible issues involved like self-hatred, depression, and a belief that she can no longer function as an independent individual because she no longer trusts her own decision making. I don't know if that's how the writer meant it to come across, but that's how it read to me.

[Potato Cat]

Well, Merrill is obviously enraged. I just can't remember if Hawke was a jerk about it.
About the demon, I have a very clear anti-demon stance. I'm wary about spirits too, and I don't like much the concept of spirit possession (though I'm willing to give the Rivaini the benefit of the doubt, since we have no clue if they take countermeasures or in what way the judge the candidates. Anders was in my opinion certainly a moron to try It).
That said, I don't have much problem with how Merrill approached the demon. Yes, it's still very dangerous to deal with one, but she just used the knowledge in blood magic to repair the Eluvian. She knew that the demon wanted something (possibly herself), but she didn't contact him and she take measures to prevent herself to be possessed (Hawke).
I'd certainly prefer if she didn't approach Audacity, but she was very careful. And she's one of the few blood mages who limits her she of it and not takes advantage of it for controlling others (I certainly don't see how using it in combat is worse than fireballing someone).

I wouldn't trust a spirit/demon either. I think there's a very thin line between the two. Which is why I really don't fancy having Cole as a party member.

[Dirgegun]

I never understood the need for that final fight. It perplexed me rather than made me uncomfortable. I can't help but think it was one of those Orsino turning to blood magic moments where they thought they needed an extra fight. I keep them alive, but I like to headcanon that bit doesn't happen. I think it just ruins the moment.

 

It made me uncomfortable just because of the story it was telling. It lifted all responsibility for her own actions from the Keeper and shoved it into Merrill's hands, making the 'good' decision to blame Merrill relentlessly for what other people decided to do, while the 'bad' decision was to say 'hey, no, wait a minute, the Keeper made her own decision and we had to defend ourselves'. 

[The Elder King]

I wouldn't trust a spirit/demon either. I think there's a very thin line between the two. Which is why I really don't fancy having Cole as a party member.

I'm not necessarily against Cole. My PC will simply be wary. It would certainly be easier to watch him than a person with a corrupted spirit inside him.

[The Elder King]

It made me uncomfortable just because of the story it was telling. It lifted all responsibility for her own actions from the Keeper and shoved it into Merrill's hands, making the 'good' decision to blame Merrill relentlessly for what other people decided to do, while the 'bad' decision was to say 'hey, no, wait a minute, the Keeper made her own decision and we had to defend ourselves'.

Yup. Regardless of what. Merril done or would've done, it's very irresponsable to left yourself be spossasse by a demon strong enough to wipe your clan. She was a Keeper. As much as she might've loved Merril (which I've no doubt of) her first priority should be the safety of your clan.

[Potato Cat]

 I would have nothing against the rivalry path if it was executed better, because I do think the mirror is dangerous, and that it isn't worth her losing her family. However I can't agree with how the rivalry path was executed at all. Not when there's such terrible issues involved like self-hatred, depression, and a belief that she can no longer function as an independent individual because she no longer trusts her own decision making. I don't know if that's how the writer meant it to come across, but that's how it read to me.

I have a vague recollection that for me, she decided to try and help the elves of the Alienage or something like that after she destroyed the mirror. And she also seemed kind of excited by the prospect, while still being in mourning.

And I'm always really wary of these precautions, whether it's Merrill or anyone else. They're clearly not 100% effective, or all the mages in Thedas would be taught them and the amount of demonic possessions they have to deal with would be substantially lower.

[The Elder King]

I have a vague recollection that for me, she decided to try and help the elves of the Alienage or something like that after she destroyed the mirror. And she also seemed kind of excited by the prospect, while still being in mourning.
And I'm always really wary of these precautions, whether it's Merrill or anyone else. They're clearly not 100% effective, or all the mages in Thedas would be taught them and the amount of demonic possessions they have to deal with would be substantially lower.

What precautions? Bringing Hawke in Act 3?

[Dirgegun]

I have a vague recollection that for me, she decided to try and help the elves of the Alienage or something like that after she destroyed the mirror. And she also seemed kind of excited by the prospect, while still being in mourning.

And I'm always really wary of these precautions, whether it's Merrill or anyone else. They're clearly not 100% effective, or all the mages in Thedas would be taught them and the amount of demonic possessions they have to deal with would be substantially lower.

 

Oh, she decided to do that on my friendship path!

 

Yeah, except her precaution was very clearly 'if I can't resist and the demon possesses me, I want you there to kill me'. So she was being pretty responsible about the whole thing.

[Potato Cat]

She decided to do that on my friendship path. 
 
Yeah, except her precaution was very clearly 'if I can't resist and the demon possesses me, I want you there to kill me'. So she was being pretty responsible about the whole thing.

She can still do that on the rivalry path, and she's still hopeful for the future, and the mirror is destroyed. I still think rivalry is better and this pain she feels is just a necessary evil to keep her safe.

And 'kill me if I'm possessed' doesn't really count as a precaution in my book. It's responsible, yes, but a precaution would prevent possession in the first place.

[Potato Cat]

Heh, it's just occurred to me that she's less depressed on the friendship path, but she's still actively slitting her wrists. Dragon Age logic!

[R2s Muse]

I think the unnamed mage thing maaaybee a reference to Morrigan. Although, Idk when Mary Kirby wrote that blurd, so it may be Solas. Frankly, I could see Viv and Morrigan butting heads.

 

This was actually my first thought as well, but then I figured Solas since he's actually a companion. But from what we know of Morr and Viv, and the fact that they were both supposedly at court, could be formula for some fireworks. /rubs hands

 

 

WHAT? You can reload and it doesn't happen? Or you mean you went back a few save files? Because my very Gay Hawke ended up with Merrill because I reaaaallly didn't want to hurt her feelings and I didn't know Fenris was supposed to come back at some point lol! Poor Hawke... Back in the closet we go! I mean I would never do that to a girl IRL because it would seriously suck for both of us but in virtual world I was like "Meh..." Here Xilizhra, you want my Merrill? Now you have two!

I think I backed up a bit. I don't recall anymore, but it was disconcerting enough that I had to nip that in the bud. No offense to anyone, but Merrill as a romance was just not my thing. Or maybe I just said 'thanks but no thanks' since I do seem to have a save where she showed up (which was helpful for my Cullens swaps ).

[The Elder King]

Heh, it's just occurred to me that she's less depressed on the friendship path, but she's still actively slitting her wrists. Dragon Age logic!

How so? She never used BM in cutscenes after her quest. She can use BM in combat, but she can do it in rivarly too.
Or did she state she won't use BM anymore in rivarly?

[Dirgegun]

She can still do that on the rivalry path, and she's still hopeful for the future, and the mirror is destroyed. I still think rivalry is better and this pain she feels is just a necessary evil to keep her safe.

And 'kill me if I'm possessed' doesn't really count as a precaution in my book. It's responsible, yes, but a precaution would prevent possession in the first place.

 

It still counts as a precaution, because she's thinking of those she might harm and how to keep them safe. Unlike the keeper. 

 

I do think the rivalry path will be made into the better option in game with no mention of what it does to her mental state, sadly, and I do expect the mirror will kick me in the butt because it wasn't destroyed, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with the execution of the rivalry path in the least. Especially not when depression and self-loathing aren't something someone can just easily more past. Not once those feelings are implanted into their psyche.

 

It's pretty uncomfortable that they chose to write the rivalry path like that. Especially with all the added bullcrap of taking responsibility from other people and heaping it onto her as well. *eyes the Keeper and Dalish Clan*

[The Elder King]

I couldn't romance Merrill. Other than the fact that she gave me personally a sister vibe, my Hawkes (both of them) feel the same after losing Bethany.

[R2s Muse]

Yeah Sheryl wrote Isabela. I don't why I can never remember that. I think it's because Sheryl is the one who's afraid of anime eyes.

Anyway, there's also this I found on some randomer's blog, trying to find the actual source now to check. This is Mary Kirby:

The “good” path with Merrill is rivalry. It’s the “no seriously, stop cutting yourself, I’m trying to help you,” path. The friendship path with her is actually more abusive, I think, since you’re enabling her to trash her own life.
The “good” path with Isabela is rivalry. That’s the “Seriously, don’t be a selfish wench all the time,” path.

Varric is unique, I think, in having the friendship/rivalry points he gets from his quests change based on what happens and what your relationship already is. (as in, sometimes performing the same action will get you friendship in one playthrough and rivalry in another depending on circumstances.) Friendship is good with him.

Anders: Depends on how you view the mage/templar thing.

Fenris: I would say rivalry is his good path.

Aveline: Friendship is her good path.

Bethany: Friendship is good.

Carver: Rivalry is probably unavoidable. But good. He needs his ass kicked.

Hmm, I sorta feel like this list sums up in a nutshell how rivalry/friendship system failed. I know the rivalry system was supposed to be about challenging a character's world view without having to hate them, like it seemed in DA:O, but I don't like the notion that even the devs considered there was only one "right" path for each of these characters. 

[Potato Cat]

How so? She never used BM in cutscenes after her quest. She can use BM in combat, but she can do it in rivarly too.
Or did she state she won't use BM anymore in rivarly?

Yeah she can still use blood magic, but she'll be using more often as she's still working on the mirror.

[Dirgegun]

This was actually my first thought as well, but then I figured Solas since he's actually a companion. But from what we know of Morr and Viv, and the fact that they were both supposedly at court, could be formula for some fireworks. /rubs hands

 

I think there'll be some mighty fun fireworks between both Viv and Morrigan and Viv and Solas! 

[Potato Cat]

Anyway, since I'm bored of defending Merrill's rivalry path, how do you see her storyline continuing in DA3, if she's even in the game?

[The Elder King]

Yeah she can still use blood magic, but she'll be using more often as she's still working on the mirror.

I'm not sure. She might continue working on it, but the BM was used with the goal of cleansing it from the taint. I don't know how BM would help her in restoring it.

[R2s Muse]

LOL You know, I feel sorta bad that the thread is FINALLY discussing Merrill, and Xil isn't here. Maybe you guys should save it up for when she's around.   

[R2s Muse]

I think there'll be some mighty fun fireworks between both Viv and Morrigan and Viv and Solas!