I need to use some spoiler from TME. Are everyone fine with me using it (in a spoiler tag obviously).Anyway, since I'm bored of defending Merrill's rivalry path, how do you see her storyline continuing in DA3, if she's even in the game?
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Yeah she can still use blood magic, but she'll be using more often as she's still working on the mirror.
She wanted nothing to do with the mirror at the end of my friendship path, though it didn't get the destroy cutscene which seemed pretty strange, considering the conversation that triggered. It makes me think the whole Merrill rivalry/friendship needed a big revision. Or at least the mirror's role in it.
Anyway, since I'm bored of defending Merrill's rivalry path, how do you see her storyline continuing in DA3, if she's even in the game?
And don't get me wrong, I liked the ideas behind the rivalry and I bet the devs will choose the rivalry path as the right one in this instance. I just have a mass of problems with the executions. I've disagreed with plenty of people without instilling unhealthy emotions and mental states in them-- I sure as hell hope I never did that, anyway.
I need to use some spoiler from TME. Are everyone fine with me using it (in a spoiler tag obviously).
Though I'll respond later since I have to go and prepare launch for my brother and sister
You know... speaking of TME spoilers. I wanted to suggest something. Even using the spoiler tags is not foolproof, I realized, as the subscription e-mails that go out don't use them (I realized during the initial TME discussion). Plus it's kind of a boring thread if the entire page is spoiler tags and folks avoiding spoilers just have to click through.
So, here's my suggestion and I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. What about for the first week or so, we start a spoiler-full discussion in Lola's secret Cullen group? Keep TME spoilery stuff to that group until folks get at least a little chance to catch up. Or do folks think that the spoiler tags are sufficient? Thoughts...?
You know... speaking of TME spoilers. I wanted to suggest something. Even using the spoiler tags is not foolproof, I realized, as the subscription e-mails that go out don't use them (I realized during the initial TME discussion). Plus it's kind of a boring thread if the entire page is spoiler tags and folks avoiding spoilers just have to click through.
So, here's my suggestion and I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. What about for the first week or so, we start a spoiler-full discussion in Lola's secret Cullen group? Keep TGE spoilery stuff to that group until folks get at least a little chance to catch up. Or do folks think that the spoiler tags are sufficient? Thoughts...?
As someone that clicked through the pages of spoiler tags we had before, because I want to read the Masked Empire as a fresh experience, I will admit it was a bit boring waiting for the discussion to break away from that. I don't want to deprive people of their debating, mind! There's just not a lot for the people that don't want spoilers to do until those kinds of discussions end.
You know... speaking of TME spoilers. I wanted to suggest something. Even using the spoiler tags is not foolproof, I realized, as the subscription e-mails that go out don't use them (I realized during the initial TME discussion). Plus it's kind of a boring thread if the entire page is spoiler tags and folks avoiding spoilers just have to click through.
So, here's my suggestion and I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. What about for the first week or so, we start a spoiler-full discussion in Lola's secret Cullen group? Keep TGE spoilery stuff to that group until folks get at least a little chance to catch up. Or do folks think that the spoiler tags are sufficient? Thoughts...?
Wow, the email thing is stupid. But do people read them or just click them off and or delete them?
Personally, I do both, since I feel more comfortable reading my personal email at work than going directly to the thread.
I'm fine either way. I'll wait for posting my theory until enough people commented on thisYou know... speaking of TME spoilers. I wanted to suggest something. Even using the spoiler tags is not foolproof, I realized, as the subscription e-mails that go out don't use them (I realized during the initial TME discussion). Plus it's kind of a boring thread if the entire page is spoiler tags and folks avoiding spoilers just have to click through.
So, here's my suggestion and I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. What about for the first week or so, we start a spoiler-full discussion in Lola's secret Cullen group? Keep TME spoilery stuff to that group until folks get at least a little chance to catch up. Or do folks think that the spoiler tags are sufficient? Thoughts...?
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I'm fine either way. I'll wait for posting my theory until enough people commented on this
LOL Naw, I don't think we should avoid the spoiler tags altogether. Or maybe we should because of the email thing. :shrug: I dunno.
As someone who does sometimes read the emails, I'm personally fine with the spoiler tags from time to time... I guess I was just thinking on April 8th or whatever, the thread's going to be insufferable since it'll be spoilers galore. So that's why I was thinking of an alternative during Spoiler heavy times. Does that make sense??
Well yeah, from April 8th there'll be a lot more of spoilers.LOL Naw, I don't think we should avoid the spoiler tags altogether. Or maybe we should because of the email thing. :shrug: I dunno.
As someone who does sometimes read the emails, I'm personally fine with the spoiler tags from time to time... I guess I was just thinking on April 8th or whatever, the thread's going to be insufferable since it'll be spoilers galore. So that's why I was thinking of an alternative during Spoiler heavy times. Does that make sense??
What's happening on April 8th?
It's likely safer to replace everything I wrote here with incoherent snarling.
Just a quick note on the Merril thing of why I think the "rivalry" path is a bit better for her then friendship based on my own rl experience:
So Ive read that some ppl here think that makes her unconfined and depressed and such, while I can relate to Merril from my teen years when I was very naive, and very stubborn, If it hadn't been for my parents "tough love" I probably could have ended up really badly, and while at the time I thought that they were evil and they knew nothing about me and why dont they just let me live my life, I was soo pissed at my parents during those time cause I didnt get to do what I thought it was right/fun for me, but then as the time passed and I got to grow up more I came to realize that they were absolutely right in what they did and how they did it because as I said if it wasn't for their tough love thing, I would have probably ended up in a gutter somewhere or even dead, and know I thank them for what they did.
And no, even if they gave me the tough love I never once felt unconfined, sure I was somewhat depressed cause I didnt get to do what I wanted but that past shortly after when I finally got my sht together
So I guess my point is, that while the rivalry path might seem harsh to some ppl I actually think its good for her. Sure, she might be pissed cuz she doesn't get to do what she thought it was "right" for her ppl but its better to be safe then sorry, and sometimes if the nice way doesnt get through a person because they are stubborn a more "aggressive" approach is necessary .
Just a quick note on the Merril thing of why I think the "rivalry" path is a bit better for her then friendship based on my own rl experience:
So Ive read that some ppl here think that makes her unconfined and depressed and such, while I can relate to Merril from my teen years when I was very naive, and very stubborn, If it hadn't been for my parents "tough love" I probably could have ended up really badly, and while at the time I thought that they were evil and they knew nothing about me and why dont they just let me live my life, I was soo pissed at my parents during those time cause I didnt get to do what I thought it was right/fun for me, but then as the time passed and I got to grow up more I came to realize that they were absolutely right in what they did and how they did it because as I said if it wasn't for their tough love thing, I would have probably ended up in a gutter somewhere or even dead, and know I thank them for what they did.
And no, even if they gave me the tough love I never once felt unconfined, sure I was somewhat depressed cause I didnt get to do what I wanted but that past shortly after when I finally got my sht together
So I guess my point is, that while the rivalry path might seem harsh to some ppl I actually think its good for her. Sure, she might be pissed cuz she doesn't get to do what she thought it was "right" for her ppl but its better to be safe then sorry, and sometimes if the nice way doesnt get through a person because they are stubborn a more "aggressive" approach is necessary .
With restraint, your analogy relating to a teenager who will biologically not have all of their brain chemistry settled down yet does not apply to Merrill, who happens to be an adult, and Hawke is not her parent.
With restraint, your analogy relating to a teenager who will biologically not have all of their brain chemistry settled down yet does not apply to Merrill, who happens to be an adult, and Hawke is not her parent.
my point was that even if she is an adult I see her as being pretty naive,and stubborn and the stuff that I just shared i didn't meant to say that Hawke was her parent but if Hawke cared for her at all, and the nice way didnt get through her he/she would have had to use a different approach to make her see things in a different light
my point was that even if she is an adult I see her as being pretty naive,and stubborn and the stuff that I just shared i didn't meant to say that Hawke was her parent but if Hawke cared for her at all, and the nice way didnt get through her he/she would have had to use a different approach to make her see things in a different light
This makes no sense. Nothing self-destructive in the slightest happens until Act 3, arguably, and friendship or rivalry will be locked in by that point.
Just a quick note on the Merril thing of why I think the "rivalry" path is a bit better for her then friendship based on my own rl experience:
So Ive read that some ppl here think that makes her unconfined and depressed and such, while I can relate to Merril from my teen years when I was very naive, and very stubborn, If it hadn't been for my parents "tough love" I probably could have ended up really badly, and while at the time I thought that they were evil and they knew nothing about me and why dont they just let me live my life, I was soo pissed at my parents during those time cause I didnt get to do what I thought it was right/fun for me, but then as the time passed and I got to grow up more I came to realize that they were absolutely right in what they did and how they did it because as I said if it wasn't for their tough love thing, I would have probably ended up in a gutter somewhere or even dead, and know I thank them for what they did.
And no, even if they gave me the tough love I never once felt unconfined, sure I was somewhat depressed cause I didnt get to do what I wanted but that past shortly after when I finally got my sht together
So I guess my point is, that while the rivalry path might seem harsh to some ppl I actually think its good for her. Sure, she might be pissed cuz she doesn't get to do what she thought it was "right" for her ppl but its better to be safe then sorry, and sometimes if the nice way doesnt get through a person because they are stubborn a more "aggressive" approach is necessary .
If we are going to use real life as an example. I have an aunt and brother who both suffer from depression and have issues with self-loathing. Trust me when I say it's not a thought process one would wish to encourage, even if there's a subject you disagree with them over, through 'tough love'. There is far better ways to deal with disagreeing with another adult than belittling them and making them feel like less of one. The issue, I think, lies with how the rivalry was written. Not the idea behind the rivalry. 
If we are going to use real life as an example. I have an aunt and brother who both suffer from depression and have issues with self-loathing. Trust me when I say it's not a thought process one would wish to encourage, even if there's a subject you disagree with them over, through 'tough love'. There is far better ways to deal with disagreeing with another adult than belittling them and making them feel like less of one. The issue, I think, lies with how the rivalry was written. Not the idea behind the rivalry.
I'd say that the idea was pretty damned bad itself.
I'd say that the idea was pretty damned bad itself.
Yeah, the writers have acknowledged that the rivalry system never worked as intended. I'm glad they've revamped it.
I'd say that the idea was pretty damned bad itself.
Well, I can see why some Hawkes might leery of the mirror, blood magic, and demons. So while I can see disagreement happening there, there's certainly no reason to treat Merrill like a child with no understanding of what she was doing when the opposite is true. If a rivalry path could have been written that didn't rely so heavily on treating Merrill like she didn't understand her own magic...
Hmm...
I might have to have a think of how a rivalry path could work with her. I can't really come up with any 'little' fixes off the top of my head. It sort of feels like it needs an overhaul to me.
@Xilizhra @Dirgegun
Weather you guys disagree with me or not, Its fine, I just simply stated my own perspective on the matter and how I viewed things based on my own experience, sure tough love doesn't work for everyone but for those that do I think it will only make them stronger.. that is all
Yeah, the writers have acknowledged that the rivalry system never worked as intended. I'm glad they've revamped it.
I get where they were going with when it came to the rivalry paths, but yeah. There were times when the rivalry path could feel pretty uncomfortable and not a whole lot like 'friends disagreeing' but rather 'I'm right and you're wrong, now suck it up and listen to me.'
@Xilizhra @Dirgegun
Weather you guys disagree with me or not, Its fine, I just simply stated my own perspective on the matter and how I viewed things based on my own experience, sure tough love doesn't work for everyone but for those that do I think it will only make them stronger.. that is all
I'm not saying your wrong. And I'm not saying not stopping the mirror is necessarily right. My issues with the whole thing was how it was written and how there were certain elements that encourage a very, very dangerous thought path.
Like it or not, there are parts in the Merrill rivalry that rely on blaming her for the decisions of others. Which, no matter what the circumstances, is bullcrap. The Keeper made her decision just as Pol did. To take responsibility for their actions and shove it into Merrill's hands and then treat that like the 'good' decision is just not okay and encouraging a terrible message.
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