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[LolaLei]

I was just reading David Gaiders article about the concept armor he showed us at PAX. From the looks of it we will be able to switch up different armor pieces from different sets and change the colours of the material. So in theory we could come up with some pretty badass outfits for Cullen that will maintain his unique look. I'm hoping we will be able to remove his chest armor though and replace it with something a little less bulky.

[Sylvanpyxie]

I just wish that some of that angst would've been relieved at some point.

That was mostly a complete lack of progression. Every character in Dragon Age 2 suffered from it.

No one progressed, they were just stagnant and static. Their personalities didn't change, their beliefs weren't altered. Despite what they were told, what they were shown, what they *experienced*, the DA2 characters just didn't progress.

They just kind of sat there, in their little bubble, completely removed from the world around them. Completely oblivious to the things that kept shifting and changing. Obsessing over their own personal gripes against the world, refusing to let anything go.

And this was especially obvious due to the fact that there were "Time Leaps" and the game supposedly progressed over a period of YEARS. The complete lack of progression at that point is just, utterly ridiculous and completely unbelievable.

Mostly a short-coming on the Writer's part. Admittedly there was quite a bit of it in Origins as well, alterations to personality weren't entirely apparent until they were running the epilogue at the end of the game..

Hope that's improved in Dragon Age 3.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 20 août 2012 - 09:55 .

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

I didn't have that big an issue romancing Fenris. I like that it wasn't easy. I just wish that some of that angst would've been relieved at some point. I do hope that whatever issues they give Cullen, they will eventually yield a bit to a more relaxed man if only around your character in private.

Yeah, I hope they don't make him too broody, although he's too awkward and bumbly to pull off brooding successfully lol! I hope he'll not drive us made with constantly Templar/Mage debates.

[Jean]

Assuming LI and companion status, I hope Cullen doesn't pull an Anders and say things like "I LIE AWAKE ACHING FOR YOU"
I can give Anders a pass for that, but Cullen seems like someone who could have a sap moment here and there with one outright angst scene but remain pretty controlled.
I can see him being protective of someone he holds close, though.

[meanieweenie]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

I just wish that some of that angst would've been relieved at some point.

That was mostly a complete lack of progression. Every character in Dragon Age 2 suffered from it.

No one progressed, they were just stagnant and static. Their personalities didn't change, their beliefs weren't altered. Despite what they were told, what they were shown, what they *experienced*, the DA2 characters just didn't progress.

They just kind of sat there, in their little bubble, completely removed from the world around them. Completely oblivious to the things that kept shifting and changing. Obsessing over their own personal gripes against the world, refusing to let anything go.

And this was especially obvious due to the fact that there were "Time Leaps" and the game supposedly progressed over a period of YEARS. The complete lack of progression at that point is just, utterly ridiculous and completely unbelievable.

Mostly a short-coming on the Writer's part. Admittedly there was quite a bit of it in Origins as well, alterations to personality weren't entirely apparent until they were running the epilogue at the end of the game..

Hope that's improved in Dragon Age 3.

Well said. I understood Anders not moving on, as it was a plot point to have him go balls out and blow up the Chantry. The rest of them though....

[Sylvanpyxie]

I can see him being protective of someone he holds close, though.

He seems like he's a Casavir (NwN2 Obsidian Entertainment) in the making, just with a side order of innocent.

A White Knight type, stepping in at every moment to protect a Lady's "honour" from insults and blades, like Casavir who just couldn't leave well enough alone. But, unlike Casavir who was very direct, Cullen stutters and stammers and bumbles around helpless whenever a romantic interest is displayed.

My god, that would really irritate me, but..... I can never get enough of Greg Ellis' voice.

I understood Anders not moving on

He's the only one that actually made sense, he was desperately trying to cling to some semblance of normality, some shattered remnant of sanity, and Hawke was the only thing left to hold on to.. It made sense, even his Rivalry Path made sense in that regard, but Anders was integral to the plot. So it's kind of expected that he would get reasonable treatment in comparison to other Companions.

But the others? Just doesn't make sense, their lack of progression, their willingness to stick around if you're constantly shafting them or going entirely against their beliefs.

I actually have a Blood Magic Hawke, that regularly consorted with demons, in a romance with FENRIS of all people. It's the most utterly moronic thing i've ever... I can't even... He should be trying to rip her throat out, not pull her small clothes off.

DA2 Character Writing has no sense.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 20 août 2012 - 10:08 .

[LolaLei]

Sylvanpyxie: Agreed. It was more tolerable in DA:O because it was only during the course of a year, plus we could at least interact with them as much of as little as we wanted.

I would actually say that out of all the characters (not counting Hawke), Cullen was the only one that I can currently think of, who's attitudes and personality evolved during the course of the game.

[LolaLei]

Batteries wrote...

Assuming LI and companion status, I hope Cullen doesn't pull an Anders and say things like "I LIE AWAKE ACHING FOR YOU"
I can give Anders a pass for that, but Cullen seems like someone who could have a sap moment here and there with one outright angst scene but remain pretty controlled.
I can see him being protective of someone he holds close, though.

"I lie awake at night aching for you... And then during the day I whip myself 29 times, slap myself about a bit, take a cold shower and pray to the Maker extra hard as punishment!" 

Modifié par LolaLei, 20 août 2012 - 10:08 .

[meanieweenie]

I'd love to see an overprotective Cullen moment. Then there would be the awkward "Um, I can handle myself but thanks for the effort". He'd back off but never completely and continue to grumble little comments here and there or we catch him giving someone the stinkeye when you aren't looking.

[Jean]

Anders did change over time.. but some parts were only stated in the codex. I know one of the timeskip entries stated that he gave up on the mage plight for quite a while, and picked it back up around when the act started.

But I do know what you are saying about both Cullen and Anders.

Modifié par Batteries, 20 août 2012 - 10:11 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

Cullen was the only one that I can currently think of, who's attitudes and personality evolved during the course of the game.

Feynriel and Sebastian both progressed with the game. Feynriel matured and grew into himself and Sebastian..... Sebastian is complicated and i won't derail the thread with such a rant.

I'd love to see an overprotective Cullen moment.

I could see it happening a lot, in Neverwinter Nights 2 Obsidian did a great job of Casavir, who was particularly obsessed with a Female Protagonist, and another character named Bishop. Both of them wanted the affections of the Protagonist and, depending who it is you had higher influence and greater connections with, they would constantly rip each other apart.

It would be great to see something like this in Dragon Age 3, Cullen is set up to be a White Knight character, all it would really need is a roguish counter-part to take the role of Bishop... I wouldn't expect BIoware to do it nearly as well as Obsidian did, Obsidian have a talent for exceptional writing, but it would be good all the same.

Edits: Wow, i must be super chatty tonight, i've posted more this evening than i have in the last month i think.

Anders did change over time.. but some parts were only stated in the codex. 

That's the problem, progression *supposedly* happens and then it's gone. We don't actually SEE anything change. We don't see, or hear, anything. Everyone is exactly the same from start to finish. The only thing that i can think of, off the top of my head, that actually dramatically changes in the game is Merrill's opinion of the Magic Mirror and that's pretty much the final moments of the final act.

I would usually agree that Codex progression counts, but honestly... It really doesn't in this case. Not in the least. A character changes in a few paragraphs of text while off screen and then... He magically changed back just in time for you to take control of Hawke again.

Doesn't work. It's been forever since Bioware had decent character progression in their games. Not even Jade Empire, one of my favourite BW games, had decent character progression. The last one i can think of was probably Hordes of the Underdark.

I just wish Bioware would begin treating writing as an art-form again. Taking into account *all* necessary requirements for companions to be shining creations of utter brilliance instead of stagnant piles of shhh-... I'll stop there.

Sorry if i end up offending anyone with my rants - It's not intended. I'm just so irrated, it's been forever since i had decent companion progression in an RPG.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 20 août 2012 - 10:18 .

[LolaLei]

I'd totally expect Cullen to get a bit obsessed with the protagonist but try desperately to hide it and ignore his feelings/urges. So it would come out in little bursts, like a catty remark to a would-be noble suitor or a shield to the throat and the threat of castration to a sleazy drunk making crude remarks when Cullen thinks the protagonist isn't looking etc.

[LolaLei]

So, what sort of things do you suppose he would say to a protagonist when he finally reveals that he likes/loves/wants her? I mean, I'd love to hear him as something like Anders did about aching for her, but it would probably be out of character and they've already used that line now lol.

Any suggestions of in character things he might say?

[meanieweenie]

There was a great little 10 second scene in a movie that I can't recall for the life of me right now..... but there was the girl already in a courting situation with suiter #1 and then suiter #2 comes along and is super charming and very openly pursuant ofthe girl. Anyway, suiter #2 is chatting up the girl and suiter #1 comes along and breaks it up "Hey, so and so is looking for you my dear." Girls walks off and suiter #2 goes to follow but #1 steps up in his face and gives him the "NO" face. #2 goes to walk around him so #1 steps in his face one more time and gives him a more stern "NO" face and shakes his head to enforce it. It was one of those great scenes where no words were needed.

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

There was a great little 10 second scene in a movie that I can't recall for the life of me right now..... but there was the girl already in a courting situation with suiter #1 and then suiter #2 comes along and is super charming and very openly pursuant ofthe girl. Anyway, suiter #2 is chatting up the girl and suiter #1 comes along and breaks it up "Hey, so and so is looking for you my dear." Girls walks off and suiter #2 goes to follow but #1 steps up in his face and gives him the "NO" face. #2 goes to walk around him so #1 steps in his face one more time and gives him a more stern "NO" face and shakes his head to enforce it. It was one of those great scenes where no words were needed.

I could see him doing that!

[meanieweenie]

Honestly, this would melt me instantly. LOL

I'm trying to think of something I'd want to hear out of him but I think I've been fed too many corny lines to come up with something that wouldn't be totally cheesy.

Modifié par meanieweenie, 20 août 2012 - 10:41 .

[berelinde]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

I can see him being protective of someone he holds close, though.

He seems like he's a Casavir (NwN2 Obsidian Entertainment) in the making, just with a side order of innocent.

A White Knight type, stepping in at every moment to protect a Lady's "honour" from insults and blades, like Casavir who just couldn't leave well enough alone. But, unlike Casavir who was very direct, Cullen stutters and stammers and bumbles around helpless whenever a romantic interest is displayed.

My god, that would really irritate me, but..... I can never get enough of Greg Ellis' voice.

Wow. I hadn't considered it from that angle. That may very well be one of the things that drew me to Cullen. I absolutely adored Casavir.

And yeah, I totally would not mind an overprotective moment or two. I might even let him get away with it. 

[LolaLei]

Lol whatever he says will had a degree of cheese because those sorts of things always do. Maybe he wouldn't say anything at all? Perhaps they'll be talking about something, like his past or arguing and all of a sudden he'd go in for a feverish longing kiss and when he pulls away he'd say something like:

"The Maker will judge me for my sins in time, but for now be with me tonight."

Then maybe he'd have an attack of conscience and leave the party temporary, leaving only a note apologising. Then eventually he'd come back after some soul searching, save the protagonist and rekindle the relationship (if she hasn't decided to romance someone else.)

[berelinde]

LolaLei wrote...

Lol whatever he says will had a degree of cheese because those sorts of things always do. Maybe he wouldn't say anything at all? Perhaps they'll be talking about something, like his past or arguing and all of a sudden he'd go in for a feverish longing kiss and when he pulls away he'd say something like:

"The Maker will judge me for my sins in time, but for now be with me tonight."

Then maybe he'd have an attack of conscience and leave the party temporary, leaving only a note apologising. Then eventually he'd come back after some soul searching, save the protagonist and rekindle the relationship (if she hasn't decided to romance someone else.)

I was totally with you right up until the last paragraph. If he does do a runner, he'd better be back with some *serious* groveling!

[Sylvanpyxie]

I absolutely adored Casavir.

Ugh. Dammit Casavir! I don't need defending, I can do that myself!

I just wanted to hit him with something, something big and heavy.

Cullen seems very Casavir though. Cullen would be less direct, I think, at least in regard to his feelings. Casavir was very reserved, but when it came down to it he was perfectly blunt about how he had come to care for the Protagonist. I can't see Cullen being that way, I reckon he'd stammer a bit at first, then he'd take a deep breath and just get it out into the open, probably in a rush.


... I like to over-analyze characters, can you tell?

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 20 août 2012 - 11:21 .

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

So, what sort of things do you suppose he would say to a protagonist when he finally reveals that he likes/loves/wants her? I mean, I'd love to hear him as something like Anders did about aching for her, but it would probably be out of character and they've already used that line now lol.

Any suggestions of in character things he might say?

So I've been thinking about this for a bit now and had a memory lane moment .... I had this "friend" (a-hem) who was totally head over heels for this guy. They hung out frequently as an after work thing with the same little group for months. Here she is thinking "This guy's not into me at all" because there aren't really any flags going up. Then one night he's walking her home after the bar and he starts going on about something like how smart she is and how she must be seeing someone... blah blah blah. So she stares at him blankly  - still walking - not real sure what he's getting at. Finally he goes "F it!" and grabs her around the waist and plants the world's most perfect kiss ever. <sigh>  It was one of those life moments that just sticks with you.... I mean her.

[meanieweenie]

berelinde wrote...

 If he does do a runner, he'd better be back with some *serious* groveling!

And chocolates and flowers and an ankle braclet so I can track him next time.

[LolaLei]

Berelinde: Of course he'd grovel, the protagonist would make sure of that one! Then again that scene could happen towards the end when he's 100% sure that he wants to be with her, no matter what the cost.

I still don't know how they're gonna go about having him romance a Mage? I could see him succumbing to her or nearly so... And then being like "I'm sorry I can't do this". But if DG is feeling nice, I wonder what his reasoning would be for breaking his biggest rule?

[LolaLei]

Aw Meenieweanie that's really sweet!

Maybe Cullen would just end up blurting it out in an argument, like:

"Can't you see I'm mad about you, you infuriating, amazing woman!" LOL!

[Xilizhra]

I still don't know how they're gonna go about having him romance a Mage? I could see him succumbing to her or nearly so... And then being like "I'm sorry I can't do this". But if DG is feeling nice, I wonder what his reasoning would be for breaking his biggest rule?

He might not be a templar anymore.