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[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Who's Ben Gelinas?

Another member of the DA team lol.

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

But even the original Inquisition didn't hunt mages, really - just blood mages and abominations. The rogue Templars may not even bother trying to round up random people and check them for magehood, though that probably wouldn't stop a few village mobs with torches and pitchforks.

But also heretics and cultists, which is in some sense worse because it seems it was not just about magic but more about who they deemed to be a threat -- arguably an even less clear cut measure for who to hunt than magic use.

 

That's the problem with witch hunts. The hunters defend themselves against charges of atrocities by saying that they only hunt witches, but without a reliable way to prove an absence of witchcraft, innocence may only be provable post-mortem.

A brief reading about the historical Salem Witch Trials will show how quickly and tragically things can get out of control. A neighbor with a grudge can do a lot of damage, and an army on the move (and possibly one in various stages of lyrium withdrawl) is not going to go to great lengths to prove innocence when more expedient means are at hand.

Perhaps it doesn't suit those with visions of a kinder, gentler Inquisition to equate the two, but the Chantry and its (former) strong arm have far more in common with the medieval Church Militant than with the friendly Unitarians hosting raffles to feed the homeless.

[LolaLei]

Y'know, it wouldn't surprise me if small groups of uneducated "ordinary folk" took it upon themselves to hunt down and kill suspected mages on site claiming that their taking matters into their own hands.

[berelinde]

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, it wouldn't surprise me if small groups of uneducated "ordinary folk" took it upon themselves to hunt down and kill suspected mages on site claiming that their taking matters into their own hands.

It would not surprise me, either. With the formal legal system in disarray, it's a near certainty.

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, it wouldn't surprise me if small groups of uneducated "ordinary folk" took it upon themselves to hunt down and kill suspected mages on site claiming that their taking matters into their own hands.

It would not surprise me, either. With the formal legal system in disarray, it's a near certainty.

It'll be a case of everyone trying to the matter into their own hands and making the situation worse in the process.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, it wouldn't surprise me if small groups of uneducated "ordinary folk" took it upon themselves to hunt down and kill suspected mages on site claiming that their taking matters into their own hands.

It would not surprise me, either. With the formal legal system in disarray, it's a near certainty.

And  it seems that that's what the original Thedan Inquisition was, as well... ordinary people who rose up to protect themselves. At least, that's my reading of it.

"There was a lot of chaos, you had the cults of Andraste...and the
Inquisition sort of arose as a group of people who said "Enough is
enough, somebody has to do something about this magic that is tearing
apart the world."" -- DG, UK Thedas interview.

edit: and again, I have NO interest in discussing the so called Inquisition from the leak talk... I'm just interested in the historical record and what it might suggest for the future. I firmly believe Thedas is headed for another, and I don't think it's going to be pretty.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 31 août 2012 - 06:08 .

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

But even the original Inquisition didn't hunt mages, really - just blood mages and abominations. The rogue Templars may not even bother trying to round up random people and check them for magehood, though that probably wouldn't stop a few village mobs with torches and pitchforks.

But also heretics and cultists, which is in some sense worse because it seems it was not just about magic but more about who they deemed to be a threat -- arguably an even less clear cut measure for who to hunt than magic use.

 

That's the problem with witch hunts. The hunters defend themselves against charges of atrocities by saying that they only hunt witches, but without a reliable way to prove an absence of witchcraft, innocence may only be provable post-mortem.

A brief reading about the historical Salem Witch Trials will show how quickly and tragically things can get out of control. A neighbor with a grudge can do a lot of damage, and an army on the move (and possibly one in various stages of lyrium withdrawl) is not going to go to great lengths to prove innocence when more expedient means are at hand.

Perhaps it doesn't suit those with visions of a kinder, gentler Inquisition to equate the two, but the Chantry and its (former) strong arm have far more in common with the medieval Church Militant than with the friendly Unitarians hosting raffles to feed the homeless.

Yup, this is exactly point I was trying to make earlier about the new Templar Order. If they're out  a-huntin' witches, er, mages, again, then I think it's going to be smite first, ask questions later.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 31 août 2012 - 06:13 .

[LolaLei]

I'm fully expecting to run into a group of lyrium addled Templars or idiot hate group trying to drag a small child suspected of being a Mage away from it's parents to be killed on the spot. Of course, my protagonist would put a stop to that one immediately lol.

[LolaLei]

Avejajed wrote...

There is too much templar hate on this board. Let's not forget the templars gave us Alistair and Cullen. The mages gave us Anders.

Of course, there are good Templars too... We just don't get to see much of them lol.

[berelinde]

It is interesting to think about.

What do you think prevented people from singling out eccentrics or pursuing grudge accusations before? My guess is that the existence of an actual Circle system kept people from calling out their neighbors. Mages might have been prisoners, but they were not criminals. They had to be housed, fed, and clothed at an acceptable standard of living, and that cost money. If the villagers cried wolf about every weird loner they came across, the templars, with an eye on the Chantry's purse strings, would probably tell them to stick it in their ears.

Now that the Circles are no more, about the only thing you can do with suspected mages is to kill them. I can see a big potential for false accusations there.

And no, I'm not talking about any presumed leaks or what have you. I'm just speculating about the current state of Thedas.

[berelinde]

Avejajed wrote...

There is too much templar hate on this board. Let's not forget the templars gave us Alistair and Cullen. The mages gave us Anders.

It's good that you can appreciate the positive contributions of both sides. Or is that not what you meant? 

I can't speak for R2s Muse and LolaLei, of course, but I'm not really talking about the templar order that existed pre-Kirkwall. I'm talking more about what has evolved. Some will be templars, probably, some will be Seekers who followed Lambert, and some will probably be people who were not involved previously but who have been swept up in their wake. I don't really see either Cullen or Alistair participating.

[LolaLei]

So what do you think Cullen's reaction would be if we were to stumble across a group of Templars/Towns folk trying to snatch a suspected Mage child away from its family to be killed/have immoral things done to it?

[berelinde]

LolaLei wrote...

So what do you think Cullen's reaction would be if we were to stumble across a group of Templars/Towns folk trying to snatch a suspected Mage child away from its family to be killed/have immoral things done to it?

I'd say that depends on Cullen's stance post-Kirkwall.

Personally, I don't see him supporting vigilanteism in any form. Of course, if he did help rescue the child, I have no idea what he'd do with him. If the village accused the kid in the first place, I don't think setting the child loose would end well.

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

So what do you think Cullen's reaction would be if we were to stumble across a group of Templars/Towns folk trying to snatch a suspected Mage child away from its family to be killed/have immoral things done to it?

I'd say that depends on Cullen's stance post-Kirkwall.

Personally, I don't see him supporting vigilanteism in any form. Of course, if he did help rescue the child, I have no idea what he'd do with him. If the village accused the kid in the first place, I don't think setting the child loose would end well.

The scene I had in my mind would be that the kid isn't a Mage at all and he would obviously be able to tell due to his abilities, so he would be absolutely outraged at the groups behaviour. If the kid did turn out to be a Mage, all he could really do is give him/her back to the parents and tell them to get somewhere safe and keep a vigil eye on him/her because there's nothing that could be done whilst there are no circles.

[LolaLei]

So, do we know for sure that the rebel Templars will be hunting mages down again like the old inquisition? Or are we just speculating?

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

There is too much templar hate on this board. Let's not forget the templars gave us Alistair and Cullen. The mages gave us Anders.

It's good that you can appreciate the positive contributions of both sides. Or is that not what you meant? 

I can't speak for R2s Muse and LolaLei, of course, but I'm not really talking about the templar order that existed pre-Kirkwall. I'm talking more about what has evolved. Some will be templars, probably, some will be Seekers who followed Lambert, and some will probably be people who were not involved previously but who have been swept up in their wake. I don't really see either Cullen or Alistair participating.

Agree! We've been talking about the future of the new Templar Order, Avejajed, and how without a Circle system, the whole world will be ripe for corruption and mistreatment of mages. To be honest, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a more pro-Templar place to discuss than the Cullen forum. LOL

[berelinde]

We don't know anything "for sure".

At the end of Asunder, High Seeker Lambert took a group of templars and Seekers off to hunt mages. We do know that. During the interview between Cassandra and Varric, Varric says that the templars have left the Chantry and are all off hunting mages. I'm inclined to think that Varric's statement is hyperbole and that some templars remain loyal to the Chantry, but I would not think that group is a majority.

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

We don't know anything "for sure".

At the end of Asunder, High Seeker Lambert took a group of templars and Seekers off to hunt mages. We do know that. During the interview between Cassandra and Varric, Varric says that the templars have left the Chantry and are all off hunting mages. I'm inclined to think that Varric's statement is hyperbole and that some templars remain loyal to the Chantry, but I would not think that group is a majority.

Just checking. I haven't read Asunder yet and what with all the fanfic and debates on the forum, I'm not always entirely sure what's fact or just theory lol.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

So, do we know for sure that the rebel Templars will be hunting mages down again like the old inquisition? Or are we just speculating?

Speculating, but based on two hard facts:

1. David Gaider saying: " It'd be interesting to see if the Inquisition ever rose up again." in Thedas UK interview; and

2. DA2 Strategy Guide saying: "Will some kind of inquisition be at the heart of events of the next Dragon Age title?"

So, that's my reasoning for expecting something similar to happen, along with the fact that Lambert specifically broke the Nevarran Accord that had formerly stopped them from being the Inquisition. Seems likely, at least to me, that they would go back to that... especially since the former Inquisition's mission seems very similar to Lambert's personal view on dealing with mages.

edit: also, what berelind said. LOL which is a good point I had overlooked. Varric specifically says to Cassandra: "I thought you decided to abandon the Chantry to hunt the mages." So, three hard facts, maybe four in that Lambert's templar horde was going go to kill the assembled mages at that keep.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 31 août 2012 - 07:03 .

[R2s Muse]

You know, this starts to make me think again that I need to make a page with everything we actually know about the Inquisition.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

You know, this starts to make me think again that I need to make a page with everything we actually know about the Inquisition.

Sounds like a plan!

[simplykaotic222]

ok so our writing Cullens first kiss, can we use any romance partner. I've never wrote a story before, so i didn't want to spend all my time describing people if i could just character we already knew of.