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[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

It certainly seems to be a personality trait with him. And if not then at it would be a good way to write in his lack of Mage detecting abilities and allowing a Mage Hawke to be Viscount (if you're a pro-Templar Mage Hawke.)

Indeed. I also sorta headcanon that allowing mage!Hawke her run of this city was just sort of a rule for him to follow, and of course, he's a big rule follower. Meredith told him Hawke was off limits, so she is. In the process, he sees that she's not a danger, and so it inadvertently contributes to his evolving notion of how to protect mages.

edit for top of page:

"Rule follower? Ahem? What about the public indecency rules?"

Modifié par R2s Muse, 06 septembre 2012 - 01:44 .

[Xilizhra]

Question: Why does Cullen not say anything the first time he hears Meredith say that Hawke will share the Circle's fate, but then get upset the second time she does?

[R2s Muse]

Xilizhra wrote...

Question: Why does Cullen not say anything the first time he hears Meredith say that Hawke will share the Circle's fate, but then get upset the second time she does?

Erm, could you share the dialogue you mean? I just googled to remind myself, and the one I found doesn't have this. When Meredith says she'll share the Circle's fate, Cullen immediately steps in, "I thought we were going to arrest the Champion..." But there are several branches to that conversation. If she does say it twice, I'd imagine it's just a coding thing.

[littlenikki]

Xilizhra wrote...

Question: Why does Cullen not say anything the first time he hears Meredith say that Hawke will share the Circle's fate, but then get upset the second time she does?

I always felt that there was some unshown conversation between him and Meredith, possibly while Hawke went off with the mages, where he attempted to talk Meredith down from killing Hawke, and she agrees maybe to just shut him up. I got that impression from the "we were going to apprehend Hawke" comment he makes when she does confirm that she only plans to kill Hawke.

[littlenikki]

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Question: Why does Cullen not say anything the first time he hears Meredith say that Hawke will share the Circle's fate, but then get upset the second time she does?

Erm, could you share the dialogue you mean? I just googled to remind myself, and the one I found doesn't have this. When Meredith says she'll share the Circle's fate, Cullen immediately steps in, "I thought we were going to arrest the Champion..." But there are several branches to that conversation. If she does say it twice, I'd imagine it's just a coding thing.

Meredith first mentions killing Hawke when you first decide to side with the mages after the "Anders Incident"

Modifié par littlenikki, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[R2s Muse]

littlenikki wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Question: Why does Cullen not say anything the first time he hears Meredith say that Hawke will share the Circle's fate, but then get upset the second time she does?

Erm, could you share the dialogue you mean? I just googled to remind myself, and the one I found doesn't have this. When Meredith says she'll share the Circle's fate, Cullen immediately steps in, "I thought we were going to arrest the Champion..." But there are several branches to that conversation. If she does say it twice, I'd imagine it's just a coding thing.

Meredith first mentions killing Hawke when you first decides to side with the mages after the "Anders Incident"

But, Cullen wasn't there...

[littlenikki]

R2s Muse wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Question: Why does Cullen not say anything the first time he hears Meredith say that Hawke will share the Circle's fate, but then get upset the second time she does?

Erm, could you share the dialogue you mean? I just googled to remind myself, and the one I found doesn't have this. When Meredith says she'll share the Circle's fate, Cullen immediately steps in, "I thought we were going to arrest the Champion..." But there are several branches to that conversation. If she does say it twice, I'd imagine it's just a coding thing.

Meredith first mentions killing Hawke when you first decides to side with the mages after the "Anders Incident"

But, Cullen wasn't there...

He wasn't? Ah, I've never really paid attention to notice that, but yea that would explain a lot as well.

[R2s Muse]

littlenikki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Question: Why does Cullen not say anything the first time he hears Meredith say that Hawke will share the Circle's fate, but then get upset the second time she does?

I always felt that there was some unshown conversation between him and Meredith, possibly while Hawke went off with the mages, where he attempted to talk Meredith down from killing Hawke, and she agrees maybe to just shut him up. I got that impression from the "we were going to apprehend Hawke" comment he makes when she does confirm that she only plans to kill Hawke.

OK rewatching the part after Chantry goes boom, I think I see now what you're getting at. It's been so long since I've gone pro-mage, LOL, I didn't realize Meredith used that exact same turn of phrase that early.

I agree with littlenikki. I think perhaps that's even the point of the "I thought we were going to arrest the Champion" line, to telegraph that Cullen wasn't in on the "let's kill Hawke" plan.

[R2s Muse]

littlenikki wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Question: Why does Cullen not say anything the first time he hears Meredith say that Hawke will share the Circle's fate, but then get upset the second time she does?

Erm, could you share the dialogue you mean? I just googled to remind myself, and the one I found doesn't have this. When Meredith says she'll share the Circle's fate, Cullen immediately steps in, "I thought we were going to arrest the Champion..." But there are several branches to that conversation. If she does say it twice, I'd imagine it's just a coding thing.

Meredith first mentions killing Hawke when you first decides to side with the mages after the "Anders Incident"

But, Cullen wasn't there...

He wasn't? Ah, I've never really paid attention to notice that, but yea that would explain a lot as well.

Agree, and I think it underscores the point you made that Cullen only had part of the story.  For the pro-mage ending, Cullen doesn't show up until that final Meredith showdown with all the girly templars and Cullen stands up to her. Meredith could have told him anything, and clearly they must have spoken. For the pro-templar ending, I don't believe Meredith threatens Hawke until the end.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 06 septembre 2012 - 03:03 .

[Xilizhra]

Agree, and I think it underscores the point you made that Cullen only had part of the story. For the pro-mage ending, Cullen doesn't show up until that final Meredith showdown with all the girly templars and Cullen stands up to her. Meredith could have told him anything, and clearly they must have spoken. For the pro-templar ending, I don't believe Meredith threatens Hawke until the end.

Not true. Meredith says this a total of three times. The first time, yes, Cullen isn't there. The second time, however, is the first confrontation in the Gallows Courtyard, during the brief parley between Orsino and Meredith. At the end of that, after Hawke gets a chance to say something, Meredith says "I'm disappointed in you, Champion. So be it. You will share the Circle's fate." And Cullen is there; you can see him behind Meredith as she gets off the boat, for instance.

[LolaLei]

Xilizhra wrote...

Agree, and I think it underscores the point you made that Cullen only had part of the story. For the pro-mage ending, Cullen doesn't show up until that final Meredith showdown with all the girly templars and Cullen stands up to her. Meredith could have told him anything, and clearly they must have spoken. For the pro-templar ending, I don't believe Meredith threatens Hawke until the end.

Not true. Meredith says this a total of three times. The first time, yes, Cullen isn't there. The second time, however, is the first confrontation in the Gallows Courtyard, during the brief parley between Orsino and Meredith. At the end of that, after Hawke gets a chance to say something, Meredith says "I'm disappointed in you, Champion. So be it. You will share the Circle's fate." And Cullen is there; you can see him behind Meredith as she gets off the boat, for instance.

Does she say that in both pro-Mage and pro-Templar playthroughs? It's been so long since I done a full playthrough I've forgotten almost all of Act 3 lol.

[Xilizhra]

In pro-mage. I've never even looked up pro-templar on YouTube.

[LolaLei]

Xilizhra wrote...

In pro-mage. I've never even looked up pro-templar on YouTube.

I'll look both up on YouTube in a bit, I'm using the web through my phone currently.

[R2s Muse]

Interesting. Indeed, he is there the second time. See here, skip to 12:15. Hmm, I think that's probably open to several different interpretations. I guess it seems to me like it's less a direct threat to Hawke, where Meredith was simply going to kill her in cold blood in the third confrontation, as opposed to a more general, if you stand against us in battle, you're going down. Cullen is still on board for the Right of Annulment as this point.

[Xilizhra]

And just why he's on board with this and yet still supposed to be sympathetic...

[LolaLei]

Either that or he wasn't paying attention. He's not the greatest Templar in the world lol.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Agree, and I think it underscores the point you made that Cullen only had part of the story. For the pro-mage ending, Cullen doesn't show up until that final Meredith showdown with all the girly templars and Cullen stands up to her. Meredith could have told him anything, and clearly they must have spoken. For the pro-templar ending, I don't believe Meredith threatens Hawke until the end.

Not true. Meredith says this a total of three times. The first time, yes, Cullen isn't there. The second time, however, is the first confrontation in the Gallows Courtyard, during the brief parley between Orsino and Meredith. At the end of that, after Hawke gets a chance to say something, Meredith says "I'm disappointed in you, Champion. So be it. You will share the Circle's fate." And Cullen is there; you can see him behind Meredith as she gets off the boat, for instance.

Does she say that in both pro-Mage and pro-Templar playthroughs? It's been so long since I done a full playthrough I've forgotten almost all of Act 3 lol.

No, she doesn't threaten Hawke in the pro-templar until the end. In that extra confrontation scene, indeed Cullen is there again, but Hawke's still on Meredith's side.

[littlenikki]

Xilizhra wrote...

And just why he's on board with this and yet still supposed to be sympathetic...

He is sympathetic, but he still does his duty as a templar. And at that moment, he still is trying to stand with the order. After what he went through in the Circle of Ferelden, can you blame him for looking to the templars and his superiors for guidance? I don't think he really is pushed to his limit until that last moment, when Meredith's madness and bloodlust is clearly evident.

[LolaLei]

I guess it could be just an over sight in the script? I mean, he makes it clear when he sticks up for her that he thought she was just going to be arrested... Although how he managed to miss Meredith comment about sharing the same fate as the Circle is beyond me. Silly thing lol.

[R2s Muse]

Xilizhra wrote...

And just why he's on board with this and yet still supposed to be sympathetic...

Well, my interpretation, as I've always said, is that it takes all those events to push him to act. He has significant doubts about Meredith's path at that  point, but  he's still doing his duty. It isn't until Meredith takes that last step of murdering his friend, the Champion of Kirkwall, that he finally has the balls to take a stand against her for all the things she's done that deviate from the purpose of the Order. It's the straw that breaks the camel's back (heh heh, fitting perhaps with the name of the quest... ).

[littlenikki]

LolaLei wrote...

I guess it could be just an over sight in the script? I mean, he makes it clear when he sticks up for her that he thought she was just going to be arrested... Although how he managed to miss Meredith comment about sharing the same fate as the Circle is beyond me. Silly thing lol.

I dont think he missed it the first time, more than chalking it up to the knee jerk response of such an emotional event. Plus the whole behind the scenes conversation I think went on between them. You have to assume that both he and Meredith had to plot out what they are going to do while Hawke is inside, planning the defense of the mages.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

I guess it could be just an over sight in the script? I mean, he makes it clear when he sticks up for her that he thought she was just going to be arrested... Although how he managed to miss Meredith comment about sharing the same fate as the Circle is beyond me. Silly thing lol.

LMAO ... and then there's that!

[R2s Muse]

littlenikki wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I guess it could be just an over sight in the script? I mean, he makes it clear when he sticks up for her that he thought she was just going to be arrested... Although how he managed to miss Meredith comment about sharing the same fate as the Circle is beyond me. Silly thing lol.

I dont think he missed it the first time, more than chalking it up to the knee jerk response of such an emotional event. Plus the whole behind the scenes conversation I think went on between them. You have to assume that both he and Meredith had to plot out what they are going to do while Hawke is inside, planning the defense of the mages.

Possible. Altho, he hears Meredith say the "share your fate" part before Hawke goes inside to defend the mages. Of course, they could have talked after and she could have reassured him. "No, no, Cullen. You're always so melodramatic. Of course... yes... we're going to arrest the Champion." :rolls eyes:

On the other hand, I still think that stating that Hawke will "share the fate of the Circle" at that point still isn't the same as outright murdering her later. I don't think that's the last straw, as it were...

[LolaLei]

Maybe he thought he'd be able to talk her down or something? Bah I dunno, who knows what goes through Cullen's head!

[kellyofthemagi]

Hi all . Gotta go off topic for a sec. Lola I was looking into Tonias Tweets and conversation about VO Theres something there I wasn't sure about a few references to 4? I wonder if that ment 4 sessions?

Modifié par kellyofthemagi, 06 septembre 2012 - 04:01 .