89415 réponses à ce sujet

[R2s Muse]

 You know, with respect to the epilogues, I think they already started retconning them in Witch Hunt, which they wrote while DA 2 was in development. There the mages gossip thatCullen was sent to the Chantry in Greenfell to recooperate, presumably before he was reassigned to Kirkwall.

Indeed, it would be nice to actually get to ask him about all that.

[kellyofthemagi]

BB gonna go upload a new Pic of Cullen and cook. hehe

[SamaraDraven]

littlenikki wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, I'm not sure I'd want him comparing the new protagonist to our Warden. I'd hope he'd say something to suggest that our new protagonist is the most amazing person he's ever met etc.

I think if anything, he'd mention the thing with the Mage Warden was nothing but a youthful infatuation. I mean, it didn't really seem like he knew much about her besides what he could observe from afar. Any relationship with a future protagonist will be on a much deeper, personal level. He'll be fighting at their side, traveling over vast distances, following their lead. As I've mentioned, I really hope Cullen is looking for a lover to be his equal, rather than someone he can fawn over and think he has to protect. Though the mention of my character's amazing-ness will definitely not go unappreciated

Well a little protectiveness because he cares for her should probably be expected. And I wouldn't mind... Just not full-on templar-ing of the PC, mage or no. <_<

[LolaLei]

SamaraDraven wrote...

Yeah I couldn't stand him constantly comparing the PC to the Warden. I tried to make a character that was a distant cousin to the Amell family and it was too much a sicking point for them to work out. Well, I couldn't write it , not realistically, anyway... It was hard! So I dropped the family ties.

Yeah, I mean I wouldn't mind being another Amell if Cullen isn't a romancable companion, but if he is then it would feel less creepy playing as someone unrelated to the Amell family.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Which reminds me. When he remembers Amell, he says: "Never met her like again" - I've often wondered if perhaps it was a hint to suggest that he will find "her like" in our future DA3 protagonist.

Hmm,never really thought about that... LOL prob since I don't have a real Amell import. It could just mean that, yup, heee's still single, ladies!

[littlenikki]

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, hopefully there would be an added dimension to the romance... If he'll romance a Mage at all. I'm still not sure how they'd get around that problem.

Another good reason for his personal quest to address his issue with mages. Not only will it help him pick a side to fight for, but resolving (or at least working towards) it will allow him to actually fall in love with one. If they are sticking with the Friendship/Rivalry path, the friendship option would obviously be helping him to accept and want to help the mages, while the rivalry will be a conformation of their danger and a return to his dedication towards what the Order wants to achieve by dictacting over the mages. I doubt there will be a middle ground option, especially with everything that has happened to start the conflict between these two factions.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Which reminds me. When he remembers Amell, he says: "Never met her like again" - I've often wondered if perhaps it was a hint to suggest that he will find "her like" in our future DA3 protagonist.

Hmm,never really thought about that... LOL prob since I don't have a real Amell import. It could just mean that, yup, heee's still single, ladies!

LOL there's that too!

[kellyofthemagi]

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, hopefully there would be an added dimension to the romance... If he'll romance a Mage at all. I'm still not sure how they'd get around that problem.

I dont think they would exclude the mage from romancing him . I think it will be alotta work and love will prevail and will win him over. I know I'm too much of a romantic. Love defies most logic.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

SamaraDraven wrote...

Yeah I couldn't stand him constantly comparing the PC to the Warden. I tried to make a character that was a distant cousin to the Amell family and it was too much a sicking point for them to work out. Well, I couldn't write it , not realistically, anyway... It was hard! So I dropped the family ties.

Yeah, I mean I wouldn't mind being another Amell if Cullen isn't a romancable companion, but if he is then it would feel less creepy playing as someone unrelated to the Amell family.

Ugh, totally agree. I would much much rather have him appreciate the new PC in her own right. No need to add extra layers of creepiness. I still think they could mention his former crush, for those with a mage import, but I hope they do it in a smooth way. Like Loa's suggestion that someone else brings it up, like as a way to needle him, so he has to explain.

[R2s Muse]

kellyofthemagi wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, hopefully there would be an added dimension to the romance... If he'll romance a Mage at all. I'm still not sure how they'd get around that problem.

I dont think they would exclude the mage from romancing him . I think it will be alotta work and love will prevail and will win him over. I know I'm too much of a romantic. Love defies most logic.

LMAO...especially in Bioware games! 

[SamaraDraven]

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, hopefully there would be an added dimension to the romance... If he'll romance a Mage at all. I'm still not sure how they'd get around that problem.

I think it's possible but it would depend on how his beliefs have evolved. They cooouuuld add a Templar whose role it is to keep on eye on the PC, thus taking the responsibility of vigilant knight out of his hands... It's not an option I relish, though. But maybe what you play as determines a built-in companion, kind of like Bethany and Carver. The new PC could have Cassandra assigned to watch them. It'd make for some drama, trying to keep personal feelings a secret around her! lol! Or maybe Cass would be fine with it because she's there to protect the mage more than be her guard, and considers her a friend? Doesn't mean she's not a vigilant friend though... It just gets Cullen off the hook. He could be expecting to have fire and brimstone rained down on him when Cassandra confronts him but she's just like, "Don't break her heart or I'll break your head... I'll be watching you - both of you..."

I don't know why, but I like the idea of a protective, mage-lenient Cass... It's probably DotS's fault!

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 09 septembre 2012 - 06:23 .

[R2s Muse]

littlenikki wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, hopefully there would be an added dimension to the romance... If he'll romance a Mage at all. I'm still not sure how they'd get around that problem.

Another good reason for his personal quest to address his issue with mages. Not only will it help him pick a side to fight for, but resolving (or at least working towards) it will allow him to actually fall in love with one. If they are sticking with the Friendship/Rivalry path, the friendship option would obviously be helping him to accept and want to help the mages, while the rivalry will be a conformation of their danger and a return to his dedication towards what the Order wants to achieve by dictacting over the mages. I doubt there will be a middle ground option, especially with everything that has happened to start the conflict between these two factions.

I'm not so sure about that. I think exactly where he is with his own personal philosophy of the Order is the middle ground, and I'd hate to see him lose that in the face of the extremely polarized conflict. I don't really see him fully agreeing with either the mages or the new Templar Order. The Divine's position may provide an opportunity for a more moderate position, so I think there's room for a third option.

[R2s Muse]

 As we've discussed before, I think it's a very different scenario if it's Mage he's responsible for, versus one he is not. So sort of the distinction I think Samara is making. For ex, I don't think he ever would have really started something with a Mage at Kinloch Hold. I think that's why he ran away from the female warden. So now, there are no Circles, so technically fraternization is no longer an issue.

Now if he's still with the new Templar Order... Any Mage  is by definition the enemy, right? yeah, that could put a crimp in your romance. But in that case, I think one of your goal's would be to pry him away from the magekillers anyway... So your romance could follow.

Anyhoo, I think the issues he would have with a Mage would be very different in the new world order than we've experienced before.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 09 septembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[SamaraDraven]

R2s Muse wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, hopefully there would be an added dimension to the romance... If he'll romance a Mage at all. I'm still not sure how they'd get around that problem.

Another good reason for his personal quest to address his issue with mages. Not only will it help him pick a side to fight for, but resolving (or at least working towards) it will allow him to actually fall in love with one. If they are sticking with the Friendship/Rivalry path, the friendship option would obviously be helping him to accept and want to help the mages, while the rivalry will be a conformation of their danger and a return to his dedication towards what the Order wants to achieve by dictacting over the mages. I doubt there will be a middle ground option, especially with everything that has happened to start the conflict between these two factions.

I'm not so sure about that. I think exactly where he is with his own personal philosophy of the Order is the middle ground, and I'd hate to see him lose that in the face of the extremely polarized conflict. I don't really see him fully agreeing with either the mages or the new Templar Order. The Divine's position may provide an opportunity for a more moderate position, so I think there's room for a third option.

I've got some ideas about how a more lenient Circle can be run and I'm curious to see what Bioware comes up with if they attempt to revolutionize the Order and how they deal with mages. Meredith always struck me as a little tragic because she didn't know a better way and no one could give her an idea and she had this deep fear driving her to a maniac bid for control. It didn't help that the methods they had weren't working so all she could think to do was "spank harder, shout louder, and be meaner" to put a parenting perspective on it. I fear Cullen could go that way if he doesn't find a middle ground that works and if he's a part of DA3 and the mage/templar conflict still needs to be dealt with, I think the Order's methods will have to be overhauled. How Cullen develops could have an impact on that.

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 09 septembre 2012 - 06:25 .

[littlenikki]

R2s Muse wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, hopefully there would be an added dimension to the romance... If he'll romance a Mage at all. I'm still not sure how they'd get around that problem.

Another good reason for his personal quest to address his issue with mages. Not only will it help him pick a side to fight for, but resolving (or at least working towards) it will allow him to actually fall in love with one. If they are sticking with the Friendship/Rivalry path, the friendship option would obviously be helping him to accept and want to help the mages, while the rivalry will be a conformation of their danger and a return to his dedication towards what the Order wants to achieve by dictacting over the mages. I doubt there will be a middle ground option, especially with everything that has happened to start the conflict between these two factions.

I'm not so sure about that. I think exactly where he is with his own personal philosophy of the Order is the middle ground, and I'd hate to see him lose that in the face of the extremely polarized conflict. I don't really see him fully agreeing with either the mages or the new Templar Order. The Divine's position may provide an opportunity for a more moderate position, so I think there's room for a third option.

I gotcha. I dunno, I guess I just sort of feel like Anders does with that issue that there is really no compromise between the two. I know a lot of players will be upset if there is no peaceful route to take when it comes down to it.

[R2s Muse]

Littlenikki: I see your point about Anders... I just don't know that I agree with him that there can be no compromise. But... That's prob the topic of a whole other thread! LOL

Samar: I agree that there must be some middle ground... I can't help but think that the Divine's position in Asunder hints that BW could actually go there... I hope they do!

[kellyofthemagi]

                                                                                                    My new pic . A romp in the woods. Cullen with his new  Protaganist.           

[littlenikki]

kellyofthemagi wrote...

My new pic . A romp in the woods. Cullen with his new  Protaganist.           

Very nice! I really like that they're in the woods, gives it that whole adventure campsite vibe that I adore with my RPGs

Modifié par littlenikki, 09 septembre 2012 - 06:39 .

[SamaraDraven]

I think there is a middle ground - it just has to be discovered. Magic is dangerous but so are swords. You could take a social approach and have any citizen with any kind of weapon registered. Yes mages can't help being born with their gifts but in Thedas, most children learn from their parents how to wield a blade or bow. It's not their fault, their mom secretly instructed them on how to handle a dagger! I know it doesn't address the disparity but it helps to keep weapon registration from being all about the mages. With such registration comes the need to ensure public safety. I think it can be done without locking mages away. They can live in villages and cities like everyone else if those phylacteries are put to better use. Hell ALL citizens can have one made! Mages phylacteries are supposed to do something if the mage it belongs to is nearby, so can that vial also detect the mage casting a spell? Can the vial of a non-mage also react if magic is being done to them? Can a library of phylacteries of all citizens be used to protect people from magic and stop illegal magic at the time it's occurring? Until we know exactly how phylacteries work, I suppose I'm just wishing but if any of this is possible, wouldn't it make more sense and be easier on everyone to allow mages to live their lives like everyone else? Templars could be rotated through shifts and since they'd be in a village, they could have homes and families. I know that could allow for leverage over the knights but I think if the mages were happier, there'd be far fewer instances of such things occurring. Plus if everyone has a phylactery - assuming they work the way I described - then any mage would find it difficult to do anything against a knight's family without resorting to normal weaponry and contending with city guard and Templar patrols.

Anyway... I just think about this a lot. lol!

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 09 septembre 2012 - 06:44 .

[SamaraDraven]

kellyofthemagi wrote...

                                                                                                    My new pic . A romp in the woods. Cullen with his new  Protaganist.           

Oooo! Nice! Very yummy. The whole woods setting is so romantic! Well done!

[littlenikki]

The only middle ground I can possibly imagine is turning the Circles into schools, not prisons. The templars need to exist to police the mages that pose a danger to those not as powerful, but the mages cannot continue to be locked away and torn from their families. They need to be treated as people.

[Miss_BlackJack]

Lovely kelly!
If he's a LI, I hope Bio doesn't have our character use one of their companions camp site like they did with Morrigan's. lol

[SamaraDraven]

littlenikki wrote...

The only middle ground I can possibly imagine is turning the Circles into schools, not prisons. The templars need to exist to police the mages that pose a danger to those not as powerful, but the mages cannot continue to be locked away and torn from their families. They need to be treated as people.

Exactly! The Circle can be a school that mages go to like any other child and come home from at the end of the day!  But humans are fallible. A mage could turn to a life of crime just because he/she can, so what then? How do you keep tabs on things so that doesn't happen? I think it's possible to have mages live as normally as anyone else and teach Templars to watch them the way a city guard watches citizens, only with a skill set that allows them to detect dark magic being done or magic in a setting that seems suspicious - like an alleyway where a merchant just wandered. The knights need to be taught how to work smarter not harder, be vigilant in ways that make sense rather than squeezing mages until they've had enough. It's a fact that when cornered, any animal will fight back and that's all any human is when you reduce them to their most basic level.

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 09 septembre 2012 - 06:52 .

[littlenikki]

SamaraDraven wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

The only middle ground I can possibly imagine is turning the Circles into schools, not prisons. The templars need to exist to police the mages that pose a danger to those not as powerful, but the mages cannot continue to be locked away and torn from their families. They need to be treated as people.

Exactly! The Circle can be a school that mages go to like any other child and come home from at the end of the day!  But humans are fallible. A mage could turn to a life of crime just because he/she can, so what then? How do you keep tabs on things so that doesn't happen? I think it's possible to have mages live as normally as anyone else and teach Templars to watch them the way a city guard watches citizens, only with a skill set that allows them to detect dark magic being done or magic in a setting that seems suspicious - like an alleyway where a merchant just wandered. The knights need to be taught how to work smarter not harder, be vigilant in ways that make sense rather than squeezing mages until they've had enough. It's a fact that when cornered, any animal will fight back and that's all any human is when you reduce them to their most basic level.

You treat someone like a monster for so long, it's only a matter of time that they will become one.

[R2s Muse]

Samara and little niki: Agree! I think they need to use the Harrowing to better use. If someone has passed a meaningful test that they can resist the lures of demons, then I say let them graduate and let them live their life outside the Circle. Of course... It's perhaps also an open question of whether the Harrowing, as we experienced it, is a meaningful test...

Edit: but I think it's high time they Circles start to trust the training they give mages a bit more.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 09 septembre 2012 - 06:59 .