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[R2s Muse]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Lol, I've never been able to get any kind of friendship with Carver regardless of whether I'm pro-mage or pro-templar. I'm gonna have to meta-game it I think.

I'm about to log off, but Carver as I'm aware can't get full friendship (I don't know though) but if you work at it and make him a Warden he'll be friendly and mellow.

Yeah, I think I've finally  been able to get some friendship from him, but he's just not around long enough to get far.

Funny how quickly that slips away, those details.

[meanieweenie]

Carver has always hated me and if I tried to make choices for brownie points he seemed to hate me more. LOL

[LolaLei]

So, I was thinking about what Cullen could be like if you pursue him romantically (especially as a mage in DA3) and I would like to see him struggling with his inability to reconcile his passions as a man with his duty to the Maker/Templar Order. Of course, for a warrior/rogue protagonist technically he can have a relationship (despite it being discouraged) but I could see him trying to be intent on ending the big conflict rather than fall in love and even if he's no longer part of the Order, I would imagine that old habits die hard in terms of following the general "code of conduct."

If your protagonist is a mage, then hopefully we'd get an added dynamic to his story/romance arc in witnessing him struggle with his convictions vs. repressed desires.

... I still can't decide whether I'd prefer him to get into a relationship with a mage protagonist, or admit his feelings/love for her/him but explain that they can never be together, so that in the final goodbyes/whatever he could tell her that he'll always love her/him and wishes things could be different, just to really stick the knife in LOL.

Modifié par LolaLei, 29 septembre 2012 - 11:47 .

[R2s Muse]

I agree that his habits and code would hard for him to shake no matter where his allegiances lie.

I'm still a fan of the happy ending, though. I could see his romance having a early to mid game hook up, and then maybe he freaks out. "what am I doing? i can't be with a mage/etc" kinda of thing. and then comes back to you at the end and realizes he can't live without you. Then your she almost dies scenario could work, so long as the WHOLE thing isn't left until the end, I'm good.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

I agree that his habits and code would hard for him to shake no matter where his allegiances lie.

I'm still a fan of the happy ending, though. I could see his romance having a early to mid game hook up, and then maybe he freaks out. "what am I doing? i can't be with a mage/etc" kinda of thing. and then comes back to you at the end and realizes he can't live without you. Then your she almost dies scenario could work, so long as the WHOLE thing isn't left until the end, I'm good.

Possibly, but I still can't see how they'd get him to the phase where he'd openly/happily date a mage after everything he's been through/experienced. Plus they've kinda covered that ground with Evangeline.

...I guess he and the protagonist could get into a relationship where they literally take each day as it comes, knowing that it probably won't last beyond their grand adventure so they'll just enjoy it whilst it lasts, then at the end they have to break things off because he's made head of the new Templar Order or whatever? But even then, the catalyst for him to get into a sexual/romantic relationship with a mage would have to be extremely significant, one that doesn't seem far fetched or OOT. Unless maybe it's simply a "hit it and quit it" event, where he'll shag her and then freak out, leave the party and never return LOL.

Modifié par LolaLei, 29 septembre 2012 - 11:57 .

[meanieweenie]

Yup yup.... my overactive imagination says it would be like breaking out of a cult or something. You've been raised knowing certain truths and then one day you're forced into a reality where you realize you've been brainwashed.

I also love a happily ever after... but.... I do so love the heartwrenching. I was so completely crestfallen when Alistair dumped my first warden that I immediately re-rolled. lol But I LOVED realizing I was so tied up in the story.

That being said, I don't know if I'd like the dumping and crawling back unless they give ample time for reconciliation. (Fenris - I'm looking at you.) I'm open to it though. We'll see how they handle the LI's this time around. Maybe it will feel less forced this time and all will be well.

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

 Unless maybe it's simply a "hit it and quit it" event, where he'll shag her and then freak out, leave the party and never return LOL.

Hahahaha! I love you.

I just got an amusing image of Cullen running out of a tent, pants down, screaming like a little girl that got a bug in her hair.

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

 Unless maybe it's simply a "hit it and quit it" event, where he'll shag her and then freak out, leave the party and never return LOL.

Hahahaha! I love you.

I just got an amusing image of Cullen running out of a tent, pants down, screaming like a little girl that got a bug in her hair.

With James Brown's - "Sex Machine" playing in the background LOL.

[vieralynn]

Hey everyone.

I'm going to be a bit contrarian by saying that I can just as easily see Cullen getting into a relationship with a mage PC as a rogue/warrior PC. To me, the one consistent aspect of his personality is conviction. When Cullen believes something, he really *wants* to continue believing it, even if other facts are problematic. So, if he decides that he respects the PC, his firm conviction that the PC is worthy of respect and doing what is right could easily override pesky facts like "the PC is also a mage."

As for whether or not Cullen has gotten over what mages in Ferelden did to him, I think he has, especially during the templar ending of DA2. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been ready to take the responsibility of protecting those mages who claimed that they weren't doing blood magic (and they could have been).

[LolaLei]

It's funny, when it comes to movies/books/etc I love the whole star-crossed lovers, who's relationship/feelings are doom from the start... then one or both die and it's all terribly gut wrenching and sad. But when it comes to Bioware games I want the companions and my protagonist to be happy lol... maybe it's because I feel like the protagonist belongs to me since I've customised him/her and controlled how he/she thinks/behaves/feels throughout the whole game?

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

 Unless maybe it's simply a "hit it and quit it" event, where he'll shag her and then freak out, leave the party and never return LOL.

Hahahaha! I love you.

I just got an amusing image of Cullen running out of a tent, pants down, screaming like a little girl that got a bug in her hair.

With James Brown's - "Sex Machine" playing in the background LOL.

Jump back! I wanna kiss myself!

Modifié par meanieweenie, 29 septembre 2012 - 12:14 .

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

Hey everyone.

I'm going to be a bit contrarian by saying that I can just as easily see Cullen getting into a relationship with a mage PC as a rogue/warrior PC. To me, the one consistent aspect of his personality is conviction. When Cullen believes something, he really *wants* to continue believing it, even if other facts are problematic. So, if he decides that he respects the PC, his firm conviction that the PC is worthy of respect and doing what is right could easily override pesky facts like "the PC is also a mage."

As for whether or not Cullen has gotten over what mages in Ferelden did to him, I think he has, especially during the templar ending of DA2. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been ready to take the responsibility of protecting those mages who claimed that they weren't doing blood magic (and they could have been).

True, although I wouldn't want him to be completely over his torture. If he's suffering from PTSD then he's likely to suffer the effects of that for life... or at least for a very long time.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

 Unless maybe it's simply a "hit it and quit it" event, where he'll shag her and then freak out, leave the party and never return LOL.

Hahahaha! I love you.

I just got an amusing image of Cullen running out of a tent, pants down, screaming like a little girl that got a bug in her hair.

With James Brown's - "Sex Machine" playing in the background LOL.

I so badly want this as a bloober reel outtake.  

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

 Unless maybe it's simply a "hit it and quit it" event, where he'll shag her and then freak out, leave the party and never return LOL.

Hahahaha! I love you.

I just got an amusing image of Cullen running out of a tent, pants down, screaming like a little girl that got a bug in her hair.

With James Brown's - "Sex Machine" playing in the background LOL.

Jump back! I wanna kiss myself!

Can we take it to the bridge?! 

[LolaLei]

Companion1: "Soooo, are you gonna hit it and quit it?"

Cullen: "Maker no, I'm gonna tap it and scrap it!"

Protagonist: "FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU!!!!"

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Hey everyone.

I'm going to be a bit contrarian by saying that I can just as easily see Cullen getting into a relationship with a mage PC as a rogue/warrior PC. To me, the one consistent aspect of his personality is conviction. When Cullen believes something, he really *wants* to continue believing it, even if other facts are problematic. So, if he decides that he respects the PC, his firm conviction that the PC is worthy of respect and doing what is right could easily override pesky facts like "the PC is also a mage."

As for whether or not Cullen has gotten over what mages in Ferelden did to him, I think he has, especially during the templar ending of DA2. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been ready to take the responsibility of protecting those mages who claimed that they weren't doing blood magic (and they could have been).

True, although I wouldn't want him to be completely over his torture. If he's suffering from PTSD then he's likely to suffer the effects of that for life... or at least for a very long time.

Story-wise, I wouldn't want him to be completely over what happened in Ferelden. I would be interesting to see closure for that story.

But, as for PTSD, it is cureable and given how well Cullen was doing at the end of DA2, I would say that he isn't suffering strong effects any longer.

Also, Cullen's problems are consistently with blood mages and abominations. He doesn't seem to have problems with mages who he sees as "strong" (sort of in the same way that Fenris divides the world into weak vs strong mages).

Now, if DA3 allowed Cullen to romance a blood mage PC, I would WANT an explanation and something suitably ugly really should happen.

EDITED TO SAY: By the end of DA2, Cullen doesn't seem to have serious problems with mages who are "strong" and he is arguably okay with strong mages a bit earlier.

Modifié par vieralynn, 29 septembre 2012 - 12:23 .

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

Companion1: "Soooo, are you gonna hit it and quit it?"

Cullen: "Maker no, I'm gonna tap it and scrap it!"

Protagonist: "FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU!!!!"

And this is one of those moments where we are truly living up to that "vaguely concerning" quote. 

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Hey everyone.

I'm going to be a bit contrarian by saying that I can just as easily see Cullen getting into a relationship with a mage PC as a rogue/warrior PC. To me, the one consistent aspect of his personality is conviction. When Cullen believes something, he really *wants* to continue believing it, even if other facts are problematic. So, if he decides that he respects the PC, his firm conviction that the PC is worthy of respect and doing what is right could easily override pesky facts like "the PC is also a mage."

As for whether or not Cullen has gotten over what mages in Ferelden did to him, I think he has, especially during the templar ending of DA2. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been ready to take the responsibility of protecting those mages who claimed that they weren't doing blood magic (and they could have been).

True, although I wouldn't want him to be completely over his torture. If he's suffering from PTSD then he's likely to suffer the effects of that for life... or at least for a very long time.

Story-wise, I wouldn't want him to be completely over what happened in Ferelden. I would be interesting to see closure for that story.

But, as for PTSD, it is cureable and given how well Cullen was doing at the end of DA2, I would say that he isn't suffering strong effects any longer.

Also, Cullen's problems are consistently with blood mages and abominations. He doesn't seem to have problems with mages who he sees as "strong" (sort of in the same way that Fenris divides the world into weak vs strong mages).

Now, if DA3 allowed Cullen to romance a blood mage PC, I would WANT an explanation and something suitably ugly really should happen.

It's still gonna need to be a pretty big deal for him to actually allow himself to romance a mage, simply because he knows they're all at risk of becoming abominations (despite the protagonist having plot armor lol), plus if it was all like:

Cullen: "Sorry I don't date mages"

Protagonist: "I promise I won't succumb to demons or blood magic"

Cullen: "Oh go on then, get your kit off!"

*After sex*

Cullen: "Marry me!"

Protagonist: "Ok!"

Like it was in DA2 then I'd be a bit peeved. He's spent 2 games freaking out about mages, so I'd want it to take a lot of work and head mess to work through before he'd even consider romancing the mage protagonist. I guess my problem is that I can't think up a decent catalyst event to trigger him into reassessing his views enough to throw caution to the wind and get into a relationship with one.

Modifié par LolaLei, 29 septembre 2012 - 12:26 .

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

EDITED TO SAY: By the end of DA2, Cullen doesn't seem to have serious problems with mages who are "strong" and he is arguably okay with strong mages a bit earlier.

See, I thought this at first too, but after DG's comment the other day about how he wonders if we look into his character/history so much that we're seeing things that were never there/haven't been shown, I'm now wondering if it's a simple case of the game being rushed and certain things surrounding his storyline within DA2 not making sense, so we've filled in the gaps and possibly got it completely wrong.

[R2s Muse]

Actually, I agree with vieralynn. I've never seen him having that big a problem with being with a mage by the end. I think he has certain rules for himself and I think not being with mage is more about not fraternizing with a mage within his Circle. I still think that's something he wouldn't do. But after DA2, there are no Circles. So I think he could struggle with readjusting his attitude a bit, I don't think being a mage is a deal breaker. Being a blood mage, on the other hand, I think is.

I always head canon that mage!Hawke's special immunity is part of what ultimately reconditions him to being okay with strong mages who can handle themselves and aren't always half-cocked weapons waiting to go off.

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

Like it was in DA2 then I'd be a bit peeved. He's spent 2 games freaking out about mages, so I'd want it to take a lot of work and head mess to work through before he'd even consider romancing the mage protagonist. I guess my problem is that I can't think up a decent catalyst event to trigger him into reassessing his views enough to throw caution to the wind and get into a relationship with one.

What if a scenario came about where your mage had to make a choice like ... one of your companions or someone who's supposed to mean a great deal to you is dying. The only way to save them is blood magic and you refuse to take the bait. Showdown with a demon or something.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

It's still gonna need to be a pretty big deal for him to actually allow himself to romance a mage, simply because he knows they're all at risk of becoming abominations (despite the protagonist having plot armor lol), plus if it was all like:

Cullen: "Sorry I don't date mages"

Protagonist: "I promise I won't succumb to demons or blood magic"

Cullen: "Oh go on then, get your kit off!"

*After sex*

Cullen: "Marry me!"

Protagonist: "Ok!"

Like it was in DA2 then I'd be a bit peeved. He's spent 2 games freaking out about mages, so I'd want it to take a lot of work and head mess to work through before he'd even consider romancing the mage protagonist. I guess my problem is that I can't think up a decent catalyst event to trigger him into reassessing his views enough to throw caution to the wind and get into a relationship with one.

Oh, I would be very disappointed if Cullen is an LI and he treats the mage PC hardly any different from the warrior/rogue. Tension needs to be there if the PC is a mage and Cullen needs to voice honest concerns to the mage.

I don't quite see it as "throwing caution to the wind."  in the middle of DA2, Cullen refers to the fem!Amell warden as a special woman, etc. Even during Cullen's worst moments in DA:O, he still trusts the Surana/Amell warden and sees her (and potentially Wynne too?) as not necessarily like Uldred. 

I guess I just don't read Cullen's lines in DA:O and DA2 as being black and white. He was already toying with the idea of a relationship with a mage. This isn't new territory for him.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

EDITED TO SAY: By the end of DA2, Cullen doesn't seem to have serious problems with mages who are "strong" and he is arguably okay with strong mages a bit earlier.

See, I thought this at first too, but after DG's comment the other day about how he wonders if we look into his character/history so much that we're seeing things that were never there/haven't been shown, I'm now wondering if it's a simple case of the game being rushed and certain things surrounding his storyline within DA2 not making sense, so we've filled in the gaps and possibly got it completely wrong.

This is almost certainly true. But even before I started analyzing the heck out of him, I was struck with his reason and moderation at the end of the game. Particularly his friendship with Hawke. He does truly seem to have evolved and healed a bit.

That said, even the writers contradict themselves about him, so who knows. (yes, vieralynn, been eating popcorn and watching from the sidelines  some of your tumblr discussions... )

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

EDITED TO SAY: By the end of DA2, Cullen doesn't seem to have serious problems with mages who are "strong" and he is arguably okay with strong mages a bit earlier.

See, I thought this at first too, but after DG's comment the other day about how he wonders if we look into his character/history so much that we're seeing things that were never there/haven't been shown, I'm now wondering if it's a simple case of the game being rushed and certain things surrounding his storyline within DA2 not making sense, so we've filled in the gaps and possibly got it completely wrong.

I missed DG's comment. Was it specific about Cullen and mages or was it something more general?

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Like it was in DA2 then I'd be a bit peeved. He's spent 2 games freaking out about mages, so I'd want it to take a lot of work and head mess to work through before he'd even consider romancing the mage protagonist. I guess my problem is that I can't think up a decent catalyst event to trigger him into reassessing his views enough to throw caution to the wind and get into a relationship with one.

What if a scenario came about where your mage had to make a choice like ... one of your companions or someone who's supposed to mean a great deal to you is dying. The only way to save them is blood magic and you refuse to take the bait. Showdown with a demon or something.

I guess it would depend on which companion it was dying. If it was one I wasn't keen on but it meant that Cullen would be like "balls to this, I'm off you filthy blood monger" then I'd let the character die. If it was one I really liked, then I'd have a tough choice. If it was Cullen dying and it required blood magic to save him then I'd do it, even if he ditched my protagonist after.