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[Dirgegun]

Ah, I'm totally okay with book spoilers! In fact certain kinds of spoilers make me want to read certain books more. So it all works out!

Cole sounds interesting. Murderous and creepy as all get out, but interesting.

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah I did get tired of the bickering between those two, mostly because Anders would just pointlessly and childishly needle Fenris. I mean with Fenris, the thing to do is to just let his anti-mage comments wash past you; he's a traumatized little fella, and you can only hope that with love and friendship he'll start to see past his prejudices. But Anders constantly bickering at him just belittled Anders character in my opinion... I guess that was Justice speaking though.

You guys haven't convinced me you know. He still sounds like a cute little murderer xD

[R2s Muse]

motomotogirl wrote...

You guys haven't convinced me you know. He still sounds like a cute little murderer xD

LOL Well, I think you'll just have to read it and decide for yourself.  For me it isn't so much the murdering, which basically every DA character does, but the reasons behind the murdering. He's not an assasin, he's literally a serial killer with a damaged childhood that seems to have frozen some of his emotional reasoning at a child's level. :crying:I just think romancing him would be .... icky at so many levels. I think of him like the kind of seemingly harmless childlike psychopath you want to reach out  and comfort who then shanks you while you're hugging him. All so he can feel "real" for that short instance of your death. :shudder: Yeah, I wouldn't want to turn my back on him.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:15 .

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

My brain is supplying all kinds of wild and ridiculous ideas. If Cole *is* a demon or spirit of some kind and if the did possess Lambert, let it be a merger like Justice and Anders, and let Lambert be recruitable. A possessed templar with a violent, incompatible Fade entity living inside him. How ironic would that be? "But it's totally different this time, Anders-haters! The possessed person is a templar, so we're cool, right? *trollface*"

Kidding aside, if Cole is a companion, I wonder how he and Cullen would get on. I know we've talked about it before, so there's no need to get into it again unless boredom demands it, but I'm still curious. Obviously, Cullen would be unhappy with the arrangement, but I'm curious about how he would express his displeasure. I enjoyed the constant bickering between Fenris and Anders, but I know a lot of people got tired of it.

Hmm, interesting question. You know, I could imagine with Cullen it would be similar, but also different in one very important way. Fenris bickers and b!tches and moans the whole game, but when he and Seb talk about why they haven't turned Anders in, they sorta  shrug and handwave something about respect for Hawke. I don't think Cullen would stop because of Hawke or PC in that way, if it came to an abomination or demon on the loose. In Anders's case and Cole's, I bet he'd do it anyway and weather Hawke's/PC's fury afterward.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:12 .

[berelinde]

@moto: Not surprisingly, my sympathies lie in a different direction. Both characters are about equally traumatized, and not entirely as a result of their own decisions. Fenris, however, elects to remain caged. He voluntarily clings to the very things that are holding him back. Anders doesn't have that luxury. Nothing can undo the mistake he made. There is no way to put it right. Endlessly needling him about it is utterly pointless, and the pleasure Fenris takes in doing so reflects poorly on Fenris.

But neither one of them have anything to do with Cullen, so we'll have to save that for the other threads.

Modifié par berelinde, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:13 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah, Cullen is a very principled man. That's for certain. I wonder if we could have a crisis moment, when he does something like that, turn Cole or a mage in, or something, and then approaches you and admits he did it, but that he stands by his decision. Then you have to decide whether to kick him out of the party or what....

[R2s Muse]

motomotogirl wrote...

Yeah, Cullen is a very principled man. That's for certain. I wonder if we could have a crisis moment, when he does something like that, turn Cole or a mage in, or something, and then approaches you and admits he did it, but that he stands by his decision. Then you have to decide whether to kick him out of the party or what....

I would love that. I could see him ultimately regretting what he did or bending his code a little if he were romancing the PC... but that 'come to Andraste' talk would be... heh, fun.

[CuriousArtemis]

Aww I don't mind discussing them xD But I love both characters equally. I just think some of the dialogue given is contrary to Anders' character, meaning, he becomes slightly ooc. But, again, I can accept that this is his "Justice" side speaking. And I love that Fenris is damaged and cages himself. Makes him an interesting character.

I've noticed some people on this forum, though not in this thread yet, tend to be of the mind set, "I disagree with this character, and that's why I don't like him," which I find odd... and I think a lot of the polarizing characters like Fenris, Anders, and CULLEN!!! receive hate for this reason, despite the fact that they are very complex and well-written characters, and thus there is no reason to "hate" them.

[Dirgegun]

...Completely unrelated... or somewhat related, I should say. I want a 'smack companion upside the head' button. I do. There were so many times I wanted to smack Fenris and Anders while just running around. I wanted to smack Sebastian at the 'kill Anders' decision too.

Fenris: "Excuse me while I moan at Anders AGAIN."
Hawke: "Why can't I give this elf the pimphand, Bioware?!"

Anders: "Excuse me while I needle the stubborn elf."
Hawke: "Excuse me while I give you the evil eye, Anders."

Sebastian: "Excuse me while I take an entire country to WAR and cut A BLOODY SWATH across the land which could kill THOUSANDS OF INNOCENTS, because you didn't kill the mentally ill mage. Boo, hiss."
Hawke: "Why is there no 'shank Sebastian' option? :|"

Edit: I just want to clarify that I don't hate anyone and like that they rub each other the wrong way, but sometimes the pimp hand needs to be used. 

Modifié par Dirgegun, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:28 .

[berelinde]

I just want to point out that I don't see Cullen turning a mage in merely for existing outside the circle. We all seem to agree that he has outgrown the blind suspicion that defined his time in the Ferelden Circle. That said, if he *did* see a companion mage practicing blood magic or consorting with demons, I could see him voicing his concerns to the PC, and taking matters into his own hands if the PC failed to act.

[brushyourteeth]

berelinde wrote...

At the risk of being contrary, David Gaider has asserted many times that we don't really know what Cole is. This does not rule out the possibility that Cole is a demon. It just means that we have not seen conclusive proof one way or another.

Lambert is mistaken. The Litany of Adrala is not specific to abominations. It does seem to be specific to blood magic, based on the experience of our Wardens, and in preventing possession from occurring in the first place, but Wynne stands there in perfect health while the spell is cast, unaffected the whole time. Yes, yes, demons and spirits. They behave different once in the body, and there does seem to be that whole "meat bag" element, but the actual act of possession seems similar.

Cole is not a nice person, if he actually is a person. Loghain was not a nice person, either, yet he was an interesting character and the one time I recruited him into the party, he seemed worthwhile enough as a companion.

Naturally, if you want to go on thinking he's a demon, I'm not going to say you're wrong because we just don't know one way or another, but I've got a feeling that he's something else. Something we haven't seen before, and possibly something that might be fun to find out more about.

It goes without saying that I don't find the idea of a romance with the guy attractive. It is possible to become acquainted with companions without cooking them breakfast. Heck, he doesn't even have to be a companion. I just want to find out what he is... which means that we will never learn. Tears taste like candy, apparently.

You're not being contrary at all, B. - I haven't said Cole is anything. 

[berelinde]

I support pimphand. I adore Anders and Fenris, and I like Sebastian as well as I can given his limited screen time, but there are times I would have liked to have had the option to slap all three of them.

[CuriousArtemis]

LOL Yes, BW, please introduce the pimphand option!!!! Fenris would have been the most common recipient in my game >.<

Also, Isabela, when she says that thing about being naked after those three innocent qunari were killed lol

Oh yes, I don't see Cullen turning in mages willy nilly. But a blood mage or a demon or a possessed mage? Yeah... it's possible.

[Dirgegun]

 Pimphand for DAIII! We need a banner. 

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

You guys haven't convinced me you know. He still sounds like a cute little murderer xD

LOL Well, I think you'll just have to read it and decide for yourself.  For me it isn't so much the murdering, which basically every DA character does, but the reasons behind the murdering. He's not an assasin, he's literally a serial killer with a damaged childhood that seems to have frozen some of his emotional reasoning at a child's level. :crying:I just think romancing him would be .... icky at so many levels. I think of him like the kind of seemingly harmless childlike psychopath you want to reach out  and comfort who then shanks you while you're hugging him. All so he can feel "real" for that short instance of your death. :shudder: Yeah, I wouldn't want to turn my back on him.

Spot on. And you know, this description makes me suddenly think of Adrian Brody's character in "The Village"  

[berelinde]

@brush: That was more of a "generalized you" than a "you in particular." You (specific "you" here) wouldn't have published an analysis of his character unless you found him interesting and worthy of debate. I agree, and hope we get a chance to find out more.

[Dirgegun]

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

You guys haven't convinced me you know. He still sounds like a cute little murderer xD

LOL Well, I think you'll just have to read it and decide for yourself.  For me it isn't so much the murdering, which basically every DA character does, but the reasons behind the murdering. He's not an assasin, he's literally a serial killer with a damaged childhood that seems to have frozen some of his emotional reasoning at a child's level. :crying:I just think romancing him would be .... icky at so many levels. I think of him like the kind of seemingly harmless childlike psychopath you want to reach out  and comfort who then shanks you while you're hugging him. All so he can feel "real" for that short instance of your death. :shudder: Yeah, I wouldn't want to turn my back on him.

Spot on. And you know, this description makes me suddenly think of Adrian Brody's character in "The Village"  

....Ugh. That movie. I just wanted to cuddle him and tell him it would be alright, even with the danger of shanking. 

[LolaLei]

I'm not sure Cullen could bicker with Cole in the way Fenris and Anders did, because Cole is so child like that he'd probably just make himself invisible/make Cullen forget him to avoid any drama, after feeling emotionally wounded... I could imagine Cullen eventually pitying the poor boy because he's so mentally and emotionally stunted and unsure of what he is.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

I just want to point out that I don't see Cullen turning a mage in merely for existing outside the circle. We all seem to agree that he has outgrown the blind suspicion that defined his time in the Ferelden Circle. That said, if he *did* see a companion mage practicing blood magic or consorting with demons, I could see him voicing his concerns to the PC, and taking matters into his own hands if the PC failed to act.

Oh, no, I'm not suggesting he would turn in a mage for being outside the Circle. I've said time and again that I think Cullen is all about the rules, and if there's a plausible reason for that mage being outside the Circle, he'd be good with it. So, like in Anders's case, I could see Cullen being fine with the "he's a Grey Warden now, he's not part of my Circle, not my problem" defense. Until he finds out Anders is an abomination. Then, Maker help him.

Or another example, if our new DA3 PC is a mage, and the Circle Does Not Exist. Then, I think that's a world where he could very plausibly romance her/him.

But Cole...? Freaky deaky demony thing loose in our world? I could see a very cool subplot where Cullen completely and utterly doesn't trust Cole and thinks that PC is just being a foolish softy (see: reach out and comfort while being shanked scenario above). He feels he can't get through to the PC who is blinded by compassion, and so ultimately "betrays" PC by doing something to Cole behind PC's back, like smiting/arresting/something-non-deathlike. Heh, PC gets pissed, kicks Cullen out of party. Eventually they find out Cole has done something "BAD" and Cullen was justified in his mistrust. Cue teary reunion and/or make up sex. The end.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:50 .

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

@brush: That was more of a "generalized you" than a "you in particular." You (specific "you" here) wouldn't have published an analysis of his character unless you found him interesting and worthy of debate. I agree, and hope we get a chance to find out more.

Indeed... I wouldn't want to turn my back on Cole... but it would be cool to have the chance to sit around the campfire, wideeyed and nervous, not wanting to shut my eyes on him... trying to figure out what he is and whether I can trust him...

[brushyourteeth]

berelinde wrote...

@brush: That was more of a "generalized you" than a "you in particular." You (specific "you" here) wouldn't have published an analysis of his character unless you found him interesting and worthy of debate. I agree, and hope we get a chance to find out more.

Awesome. I'm definitely of the opinion now that there was some kind of demon involved in Cole's situation at some point, and may still be, but that's all I'm even remotely certain about. That and I guess that there was mind domination happening. The Litany cut off all his powers and even Rhys says that deep down he knew all along that his mind was being tampered with. But even he doesn't have the heart to hate Cole, so something unusual is definitely happening there!

Dirgegun wrote...
....Ugh. That movie. I just wanted to cuddle him and tell him it would be alright, even with the danger of shanking.

Yep, that's pretty much Cole! 

He's also pretty much 100% not interested in sex, so I have no idea how that romance could possibly play out. It'd either be like trying to fall in love with a seven year old boy or more like trying to fall in love with an inanimate object. It'd feel less like a partnership (which is what good romance is, to me) and more like you were using or corrupting him. Not that romantic love or sex are bad things, but that if you try to drag someone into it because it's what *you* want, it stops being a good thing.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 04 octobre 2012 - 04:02 .

[Parmida]

GOSH! is it a bad thing that whenever Cole says "Look into my eyes..." it turns me on!? damn...I have the weirdest boner (not literally!)....

Modifié par Parmida, 04 octobre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Dirgegun]

Awesome. I'm definitely of the opinion now that there was some kind of demon involved in Cole's situation at some point, and may still be, but that's all I'm even remotely certain about. That and I guess that there was mind domination happening. The Litany cut off all his powers and even Rhys says that deep down he knew all along that his mind was being tampered with. But even he doesn't have the heart to hate Cole, so something unusual is definitely happening there!

I can never bring myself to hate someone who is clearly mentally ill/child like because of possible mental illness/demons/whatever. I just can't. If anything I want to somehow piece the poor thing back together. 

It's part of why I can't ever murder knife Anders. There was just so many hints that the poor thing had clinical depression. 

Felt the same way over Cullen in the 'Cullen snaps' DA:O endings.

[LolaLei]

Parmida wrote...

GOSH! is it a bad thing that whenever Cole says "Look into my eyes..." it turns me on!? damn...I have the weirdest boner (not literally!)....

Can't tell if trolling, or just insane. :-S

[Parmida]

LolaLei wrote...

Parmida wrote...

GOSH! is it a bad thing that whenever Cole says "Look into my eyes..." it turns me on!? damn...I have the weirdest boner (not literally!)....

Can't tell if trolling, or just insane. :-S

I guess I'll just....sit here....not saying.. anything...