Jasmine96 wrote...
Destria wrote...
Jasmine96 wrote...
Did one of the devs say they decided to get rid of lyrium withdrawal? I think they might of but I can't really remember...
I'm not sure where the quote was, but I remember reading something like that too. It may have even been Gaider that said something to that effect.
Well at least now I know I'm not imagining things!
Jasmine96 wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Hm, something interesting Samson the retired Templar says in DA2:
"They don't do anything to keep you, ya know? You join the Order, you're free to walk away. But they're the only ones who got the dust." "You need to drink the stuff to face down the magickers. Problem is, if you ever try to stop, it just about kills you."
Samson looks like he's in his 50's though it's hard to tell since he looks pretty rough. He also has those purpley/red rings around his eyes that Cullen has... I think that's maybe something to do with the lyrium.
ooh you could be right about that! I kind of like the purpleish around Cullens eyes. I know some people said they don't like it or something but I thing it sort of adds a little.. er 'roughness' to his look
TUK: The Templar abilities, are they--despite the Chantry's protestations--a form of magic?
DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as
Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there.
So would I. The implementation we had was that, if the addiction developed, the use of lyrium had diminishing returns. You needed more and got less. The problem we encountered, as you point out, is that mages pretty much needed to drink lyrium potions. Addiction was practically guaranteed. So there needed to be some method of dealing with the addiction without rendering it pointless, and ideally some kind of story implication...Taritu wrote...
if there's a DAO 2, I'd LOVE to see lyrium addiction. I mean, the way I had Wynne and Morrigan swilling back lyrium...
...and you can see why it suddenly became costly. If we could come up with some other implementation that was meaningful, I'd like to see return in the future -- it was something templar characters were meant to face as
well as mages, after all. Suggestions would be welcome... though perhaps in another thread.
Modifié par R2s Muse, 18 avril 2012 - 10:16 .
Guest_Jasmine96_*
R2s Muse wrote...
I know of two spots where DG talks about lyrium. One is in that Jan 2012 interview he did:TUK: The Templar abilities, are they--despite the Chantry's protestations--a form of magic?
DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as
Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there.
Then, there's a discussion of their original intention with lyrium addiction.SoTaritu wrote...
if there's a DAO 2, I'd LOVE to see lyrium addiction. I mean, the way I had Wynne and Morrigan swilling back lyrium...
would I. The implementation we had was that, if the addiction
developed, the use of lyrium had diminishing returns. You needed more
and got less. The problem we encountered, as you point out, is that
mages pretty much needed to drink
lyrium potions. Addiction was practically guaranteed. So there needed
to be some method of dealing with the addiction without rendering it
pointless, and ideally some kind of story implication...
...and
you can see why it suddenly became costly. If we could come up with some
other implementation that was meaningful, I'd like to see return in the
future -- it was something templar characters were meant to face as
well as mages, after all. Suggestions would be welcome... though perhaps
in another thread.
Modifié par LolaLei, 18 avril 2012 - 10:19 .
Modifié par Destria, 18 avril 2012 - 10:22 .
Guest_Jasmine96_*
LolaLei wrote...
David made a **** up in that first one. He suggests that Templars can use their abilities for quite some time after coming off lyrium "as Alistair proves." - But Alistair never took lyrium, he was taken out of the Order before he had the chance to try it.
Jasmine96 wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
David made a **** up in that first one. He suggests that Templars can use their abilities for quite some time after coming off lyrium "as Alistair proves." - But Alistair never took lyrium, he was taken out of the Order before he had the chance to try it.
Oh yeah if Alistair never took lyrium how'd he get his abilities in the first place?
R2s Muse wrote...
Plus, good catch on Evangeline:
"Once that is gone, I'll have perhaps a week before I start to feel the effects Within a month, perhaps two, I'll go insane."
"You're addicted."
"And there's nothing to be done about it. The Chantry controls the supply of lyrium, and thus t hey control the templars. There is no turning back from the order once you're within."
So, also good point about the mage-templar war. Where are they gonna get the lyrium now? LOL Hadn't thought of that...
Does he actually say that he's never taken lyrium? I know he says he never took his vows, but does he say that happens after?LolaLei wrote...
Jasmine96 wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
David made a **** up in that first one. He suggests that Templars can use their abilities for quite some time after coming off lyrium "as Alistair proves." - But Alistair never took lyrium, he was taken out of the Order before he had the chance to try it.
Oh yeah if Alistair never took lyrium how'd he get his abilities in the first place?
... Plot armor!
Modifié par R2s Muse, 18 avril 2012 - 10:32 .
Guest_Jasmine96_*
Yay you found it!R2s Muse wrote...
Plus, good catch on Evangeline:
"Once that is gone, I'll have perhaps a week before I start to feel the effects Within a month, perhaps two, I'll go insane."
"You're addicted."
"And there's nothing to be done about it. The Chantry controls the supply of lyrium, and thus t hey control the templars. There is no turning back from the order once you're within."
So, also good point about the mage-templar war. Where are they gonna get the lyrium now? LOL Hadn't thought of that...
Jasmine96 wrote...
Man the chantry IS hypocritical, phylactories are blood magic right?
Guest_Jasmine96_*
LolaLei wrote...
Jasmine96 wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
David made a **** up in that first one. He suggests that Templars can use their abilities for quite some time after coming off lyrium "as Alistair proves." - But Alistair never took lyrium, he was taken out of the Order before he had the chance to try it.
Oh yeah if Alistair never took lyrium how'd he get his abilities in the first place?
... Plot armor!
LOL yeah, god bless Kindle and the search function! <3Jasmine96 wrote...
Yay you found it!R2s Muse wrote...
Plus, good catch on Evangeline:
"Once that is gone, I'll have perhaps a week before I start to feel the effects Within a month, perhaps two, I'll go insane."
"You're addicted."
"And there's nothing to be done about it. The Chantry controls the supply of lyrium, and thus t hey control the templars. There is no turning back from the order once you're within."
So, also good point about the mage-templar war. Where are they gonna get the lyrium now? LOL Hadn't thought of that...
I was beginning to think I was jut getting confused... wow only a week then until they start to feel the effects. Pulling away from the chantry was a terrible move, what are they going to do? I have a feeling templars will start going back to the chantry for that alone
R2s Muse wrote...
Does he actually say that he's never taken lyrium? I know he says he never took his vows, but does he say that happens after?LolaLei wrote...
Jasmine96 wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
David made a **** up in that first one. He suggests that Templars can use their abilities for quite some time after coming off lyrium "as Alistair proves." - But Alistair never took lyrium, he was taken out of the Order before he had the chance to try it.
Oh yeah if Alistair never took lyrium how'd he get his abilities in the first place?
... Plot armor!
edit because even i can understand what i wrote...
Modifié par LolaLei, 18 avril 2012 - 10:36 .
Very interesting. You know, before I read that DG interview, I'd been figuring you only needed lyrium to enhance your skills and maybe increase your magic resistance, but that you could still do a lot of the templar stuff without. Probably because of Alistair (and maybe because of those crisium Cullen stories...). I think I still prefer that idea... :shrug: Gotta love fanfic!LolaLei wrote...
R2s Muse wrote...
Does he actually say that he's never taken lyrium? I know he says he never took his vows, but does he say that happens after?LolaLei wrote...
Jasmine96 wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
David made a **** up in that first one. He suggests that Templars can use their abilities for quite some time after coming off lyrium "as Alistair proves." - But Alistair never took lyrium, he was taken out of the Order before he had the chance to try it.
Oh yeah if Alistair never took lyrium how'd he get his abilities in the first place?
... Plot armor!
edit because even i can understand what i wrote...
Yeah, the Warden asks him if he's addicted and he tells her he was removed from the order before taking his vows and never had to take it.
Modifié par R2s Muse, 18 avril 2012 - 10:43 .
SamaraDraven wrote...
Based on Alistair's ability to still use Templar talents and the fact that he's never taken lyrium, I think it's not accurate to call what the templars do magic. Perhaps lyrium makes those talents stronger but not because it's magic.When I was thinking about this before I wondered if maybe templar abilities was like a counter wave of sorts. Mages have a stronger connection to the Fade than non-mages. It was my understanding that they use that... conduit to affect and change the real world. Now even non-mages have a Fade connection because they go there to dream. So even Templars have some kind of bond with the Fade. I hypothesized that Templars learn to tap into that small connection and either... shift or change the interaction between the Fade and the mage to nullify magic. Kinda like pulling a rug out from under someone or closing a door in a person's face. So it's like the templars "pull" on the Veil to disrupt the channeling of magical power and using their small connection to the Fade to "grip" that curtain. Using Lyrium would temporarily increase that connection so they have more traction to shut down more powerful mages.
So that's how I thought of it. Thus it's not magic and lyrium is useful to be a better templar and stop stronger mages but it's not necessary to function at all. And the energy you see templars emit is just basic Fade energy being disrupted
.
Just my thoughts on it.
R2s Muse wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Yeah, the Warden asks him if he's addicted and he tells her he was removed from the order before taking his vows and never had to take it.
Very interesting. You know, before I read that DG interview, I'd been figuring you only needed lyrium to enhance your skills and maybe increase your magic resistance, but that you could still do a lot of the templar stuff without. Probably because of Alistair (and maybe because of those crisium Cullen stories...). I think I still prefer that idea... :shrug: Gotta love fanfic!
SamaraDraven wrote...
R2s Muse wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Yeah, the Warden asks him if he's addicted and he tells her he was removed from the order before taking his vows and never had to take it.
Very interesting. You know, before I read that DG interview, I'd been figuring you only needed lyrium to enhance your skills and maybe increase your magic resistance, but that you could still do a lot of the templar stuff without. Probably because of Alistair (and maybe because of those crisium Cullen stories...). I think I still prefer that idea... :shrug: Gotta love fanfic!
I think DG doesn't always keep his own details straight. First, it's one way in the game and then another in the book? At least he admits to there being some incontinuity.
BubbleDncr wrote...
Ok so, within the last hour, I have gone from not really caring about Cullen, to deciding that a romance-able Cullen going through lyrium withdrawal as a mage PC would be the greatest thing ever.
Guest_Jasmine96_*
BubbleDncr wrote...
Ok so, within the last hour, I have gone from not really caring about Cullen, to deciding that a romance-able Cullen going through lyrium withdrawal as a mage PC would be the greatest thing ever.
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