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[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

Dirgegun.agree, I see professionalism being a core issue for Cullen. His is after all defined by his duty, so I sorta picture him being the one who would prefer to polish his armor over going to the Templar Christmas party, you know? Poor dear...
 

This. So much this.

That isn't to say that he couldn't possess a sense of humor or that he wouldn't enjoy intimacy with a friend (sexual or platonic) once they earned his trust, but that does seem to be his defining characteristic. It would even better if he didn't lose that character trait once he did get close to the PC. If he was still cool and professional with everyone who wasn't the PC.

[Dirgegun]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Dirgegun.agree, I see professionalism being a core issue for Cullen. His is after all defined by his duty, so I sorta picture him being the one who would prefer to polish his armor over going to the Templar Christmas party, you know? Poor dear...
 

This. So much this.

That isn't to say that he couldn't possess a sense of humor or that he wouldn't enjoy intimacy with a friend (sexual or platonic) once they earned his trust, but that does seem to be his defining characteristic. It would even better if he didn't lose that character trait once he did get close to the PC. If he was still cool and professional with everyone who wasn't the PC.

For the sake of my PC's ego, he better keep cool and professional with everyone else. 

...Unless he connects with one of the others platonically, of course. My character won't keep Cullen from making friends.

[Danny Boy 7]

berelinde wrote...

Woohoo, Ikilled the thread.

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Ooh, Danny, that's a cool idea, too... That you're also creating the org as you go... Like it starts as a non-profit coop, and as you're doing your thing you have to find funds and backers. Maybe the carat and other street gangs become your allies, along with civilian orbs like the city guard...? Possibilities.

I totally thought of something like that when I read the descriptions on Sera and the Iron Bull since the former seems to have a lot of connections to several thieves guilds and the latter has his mercenary company which I assume will supplement a good portion of the organizations forces.

I also think we might be able to recruit non-controllable npcs into the Inquisition in order to fight at certain times.

I say this with deepest affection and respect, but I really, REALLY hope that the only inquisition in the game is the one our protagonists are trying to defeat. I would not find it enjoyable in the least to play as an inquisitor.

Recently, my sister and I decided that we were going to do pro-templar playthroughs and romance Fenris. We spent many hours encouraging each other and repeating over and over "Side with the templars. Flirt with Fenris," but we were alternating those sentences with "I hate this. I hate myself for doing this. This sucks." In the end, I elected to spend an entire day - my first actual day off in a month - doing housework as opposed to playing Dragon Age 2 because scrubbing pots and folding laundry was more pleasurable than our current playthrough.

The moral of this story is that you can't force yourself to enjoy something that isn't enjoyable to you. I'm not spending $60+ on something less fun than washing dishes.

Fortunately, they have not said that we will be playing as inquisitors. They haven't said anything. Probably just as well. It allows me to enjoy the speculation about Cullen.

I can't be a douche in any of my playthroughs to be honest pro-Chantry, pro-Templar or whatever tbh lol. I mean I don't mind being an Inquisitor tbh because I honestly don't know what kind of Inquisition we're going to be. Are we fighting both sides in an attempt  to bring an end to the war? Are we pro-mage in order to save them from the oppression of the templars, whether on the Divine's orders or not, are we pro-templar and want to end the threat of mages forever or are we pro-self and have simply gotten caught up in "someone else's war". I mean some Wardens really despised that they had to deal with the Blight so it'd be cool if you can shape the order into what you want.

Ofcourse you could be right and if I'm honest I don't mind either way. I just want a good game set in Orlais, a nice meal, a pretty girl and the right to eviscerate fools...er

[Danny Boy 7]

So do you guys want a new specialization for Cullen? Like Noble Templar or something? I mean I want him to be the better Templar if I were to spec into that role since he's been doing it for years now. Cassandra would also need some special new one as well since Seekers are basically the best of the best Templars.

[Dirgegun]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

So do you guys want a new specialization for Cullen? Like Noble Templar or something? I mean I want him to be the better Templar if I were to spec into that role since he's been doing it for years now. Cassandra would also need some special new one as well since Seekers are basically the best of the best Templars.

I think he should be a very, very skilled Templar, and one with his OWN talent tree. Maybe just name it after his rank? 

...Or his old rank if he's no longer officially a Templar if he's in DA3. 

[R2s Muse]

Dirgegun wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

So do you guys want a new specialization for Cullen? Like Noble Templar or something? I mean I want him to be the better Templar if I were to spec into that role since he's been doing it for years now. Cassandra would also need some special new one as well since Seekers are basically the best of the best Templars.

I think he should be a very, very skilled Templar, and one with his OWN talent tree. Maybe just name it after his rank? 

...Or his old rank if he's no longer officially a Templar if he's in DA3. 

this.

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah in the sense that Isabela's and Fenris' were named after aspects of themselves... Cullen's could be Knight-Captain... or... Dedication... or something like that. Wandering Templar.

I did like that in DA2 characters had specializations like that, and Hawke COULDN'T learn them. I don't like how characters in DAO can just teach each other stuff. That my Warden can become a spirit healer when that's Wynne's specialization. You know?

Let's give Cullen something that makes him unique. Although make it good, too, because that sucker's gonna be in my party pretty much all the time lol

[R2s Muse]

motomotogirl wrote...

Yeah in the sense that Isabela's and Fenris' were named after aspects of themselves... Cullen's could be Knight-Captain... or... Dedication... or something like that. Wandering Templar.

I did like that in DA2 characters had specializations like that, and Hawke COULDN'T learn them. I don't like how characters in DAO can just teach each other stuff. That my Warden can become a spirit healer when that's Wynne's specialization. You know?

Let's give Cullen something that makes him unique. Although make it good, too, because that sucker's gonna be in my party pretty much all the time lol

those are great ideas. The only ones I can think of make him sound like a cologne line. LOL Duty. Dedication.  If he ends up leaving the Templars you could call it Broken Faith. 

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

those are great ideas. The only ones I can think of make him sound like a cologne line. LOL Duty. Dedication.  If he ends up leaving the Templars you could call it Broken Faith. 

Wonder what it smells like.

[R2s Muse]

charlottecorday wrote...

I'm really curious to see the exact abilities that the Seekers have and how they differ from Templar abilities.

& from the Codex:
 

It's said they are immune to a blood mage's mind control and possess the ability to read minds or erase memories, but this is likely exaggeration.

I can't wait to see how this plays out with a Seeker companion (Cassanda?) and the specifics of what they can do. I haven't seen DotS, is there any in depth mention of their abilities there?

I am interested in this as well. They definitely suggest much darker things about Seekers, although I also don't see them being so different from Templars since that's who they are recruited from. Unfortunately, DotS doesn't tell us much, but the behind the scenes extras have a bit.

[meanieweenie]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

those are great ideas. The only ones I can think of make him sound like a cologne line. LOL Duty. Dedication.  If he ends up leaving the Templars you could call it Broken Faith. 

Wonder what it smells like.

With our luck it'll smell like Chastity and Bitterness. lol

Ps - I'm also interested in the Seekers differences in abilities. Yikes, if we're talking about mind control or erasing memories that could be tragic.

[R2s Muse]

meanieweenie wrote...

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

those are great ideas. The only ones I can think of make him sound like a cologne line. LOL Duty. Dedication.  If he ends up leaving the Templars you could call it Broken Faith. 

Wonder what it smells like.

With our luck it'll smell like Chastity and Bitterness. lol

Ps - I'm also interested in the Seekers differences in abilities. Yikes, if we're talking about mind control or erasing memories that could be tragic.

LMAO! That would be our luck...

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

charlottecorday wrote...

I'm really curious to see the exact abilities that the Seekers have and how they differ from Templar abilities.

& from the Codex:
 

It's said they are immune to a blood mage's mind control and possess the ability to read minds or erase memories, but this is likely exaggeration.

I can't wait to see how this plays out with a Seeker companion (Cassanda?) and the specifics of what they can do. I haven't seen DotS, is there any in depth mention of their abilities there?

I am interested in this as well. They definitely suggest much darker things about Seekers, although I also don't see them being so different from Templars since that's who they are recruited from. Unfortunately, DotS doesn't tell us much, but the behind the scenes extras have a bit.

Wow, that would be ironic.

Templars use blood magic to hunt escaped Circle mages. Seekers, who are pretty much templars with the "Seeker upgrade" get access to the rest of a blood mage's reputed repertoire.

I'm not hating on the templars here. Throughout history, enforcement organizations have used the tools of their enemies to become more effective. Governments enlist the aid of counterfeiters to improve the security of their currency, etc. It is hypocrisy of a sort, but that doesn't necessarily make it evil. I find it interesting and am curious about how this will play out in game.

If the templars (and the Seekers) are increasing their reliance on "blood magic" tools (phylacteries, etc), it will be interesting to see what happens if the Veil tears completely. I'm not sure if blood magic predisposes one to demonic possession, but if it does, templars and Seekers who are actively using those abilities may find themselves at risk. Mages are at risk because they can access the Fade at will, or at least its energy. Templars don't have this ability by birth, but the lyrium in their blood seems to give it to them. Partially, anyway.

Hmm, I wonder if this is the *real* reason Tahrone chose templar recruits for her experiments. Yes, she picked them because she wanted to "sow chaos in their ranks," or whatever it was she said, but maybe the lyrium made it easier? There has also been some discussion about whether Tahrone was necessary to make the possession happen. She certainly takes credit for it, but we never actually see the process. If you question Keran about what happened to him, he describes a desire demon sinking her claws into his chest. It sounded as if he was dealing with the demon directly. Tahrone also seems unsure about which "vessels" will be found "suitable". I'm starting to think that all she did was put the templar on a plate and ring the dinner bell.

[berelinde]

I'm also wondering about the nature of the link between blood magic and demonic possession. I know that the Chantry forbids it because of the mind-control angle, but the Dalish seem to think that blood mages inevitably become the prey of demons, too. Maybe the problem is that blood magic allows the mage to exceed his ability, to symbolically go deeper into the Fade than he has the ability to control. An analogy might be a boxer who dopes with painkillers to stay in the fight longer. Yeah, he's going to be able to last longer than his opponent, but the painkillers are going to wear off eventually.

Sorry about the off-topicness of this post. It really has no bearing on Cullen, but if you squint and hold it sideways, it might be vaguely templar-related.

[Danny Boy 7]

berelinde wrote...

I'm also wondering about the nature of the link between blood magic and demonic possession. I know that the Chantry forbids it because of the mind-control angle, but the Dalish seem to think that blood mages inevitably become the prey of demons, too. Maybe the problem is that blood magic allows the mage to exceed his ability, to symbolically go deeper into the Fade than he has the ability to control. An analogy might be a boxer who dopes with painkillers to stay in the fight longer. Yeah, he's going to be able to last longer than his opponent, but the painkillers are going to wear off eventually.

Sorry about the off-topicness of this post. It really has no bearing on Cullen, but if you squint and hold it sideways, it might be vaguely templar-related.

I think the Dalish may be referring to the fact that when you open that door and use a demons services it's much easier for a demon to find you in the Fade while you sleep and influence you. I mean you've already trusted it enough to give you power or information. It could be that your right and Blood Magic pushes a mage's abilities beyong the controllable point, but I think imo that it simply makes the subconscious defenses a mage builds up or is taught in the tower which I assume was the point of mages being trained.

[Dirgegun]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

charlottecorday wrote...

I'm really curious to see the exact abilities that the Seekers have and how they differ from Templar abilities.

& from the Codex:
 

It's said they are immune to a blood mage's mind control and possess the ability to read minds or erase memories, but this is likely exaggeration.

I can't wait to see how this plays out with a Seeker companion (Cassanda?) and the specifics of what they can do. I haven't seen DotS, is there any in depth mention of their abilities there?

I am interested in this as well. They definitely suggest much darker things about Seekers, although I also don't see them being so different from Templars since that's who they are recruited from. Unfortunately, DotS doesn't tell us much, but the behind the scenes extras have a bit.

Wow, that would be ironic.

Templars use blood magic to hunt escaped Circle mages. Seekers, who are pretty much templars with the "Seeker upgrade" get access to the rest of a blood mage's reputed repertoire.

I'm not hating on the templars here. Throughout history, enforcement organizations have used the tools of their enemies to become more effective. Governments enlist the aid of counterfeiters to improve the security of their currency, etc. It is hypocrisy of a sort, but that doesn't necessarily make it evil. I find it interesting and am curious about how this will play out in game.

If the templars (and the Seekers) are increasing their reliance on "blood magic" tools (phylacteries, etc), it will be interesting to see what happens if the Veil tears completely. I'm not sure if blood magic predisposes one to demonic possession, but if it does, templars and Seekers who are actively using those abilities may find themselves at risk. Mages are at risk because they can access the Fade at will, or at least its energy. Templars don't have this ability by birth, but the lyrium in their blood seems to give it to them. Partially, anyway.

Hmm, I wonder if this is the *real* reason Tahrone chose templar recruits for her experiments. Yes, she picked them because she wanted to "sow chaos in their ranks," or whatever it was she said, but maybe the lyrium made it easier? There has also been some discussion about whether Tahrone was necessary to make the possession happen. She certainly takes credit for it, but we never actually see the process. If you question Keran about what happened to him, he describes a desire demon sinking her claws into his chest. It sounded as if he was dealing with the demon directly. Tahrone also seems unsure about which "vessels" will be found "suitable". I'm starting to think that all she did was put the templar on a plate and ring the dinner bell.

The phylacteries are a form of blood magic, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's discovered that the Seekers use other forms of blood magic or something to that effect. As for the Templars and their 'magic'... I'm not sure if what they do is tied to blood, but I think it's possible that it might be revealed everyone has the potential to use magic, even if it's not full blown magic like the mages can tap into. I think it's pretty suspect that the Templars can use abilities that appear very, very close to some of the spells within the Spirit School and that they don't actually need lyrium to use them. Reavers tap into a kind of blood magic to use their abilities as well, so that's more 'magic' used by folks that aren't mages.

Didn't Sandal say something that sounded some what related? Obivously it's time to hit wiki...

Sandal: One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide.
Bodahn: Huh. What's this?
Sandal: When he rises, everyone will see.
Bodahn: By the ancestors, what's gotten into you, my boy?
Sandal: Enchantment?
Bodahn: Hmph. That's more like it.

Ah, there we are!

And for further reading, because why not? Here's the wiki list on the mage abilities, if anyone needs a reminder. Scroll down to the list of spells under Spirit. Now don't those seem rather quite familiar? 

Modifié par Dirgegun, 09 octobre 2012 - 12:50 .

[berelinde]

Or it could be the seductive allure of an inexhaustible resource. If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk.

[Dirgegun]

berelinde wrote...

I'm also wondering about the nature of the link between blood magic and demonic possession. I know that the Chantry forbids it because of the mind-control angle, but the Dalish seem to think that blood mages inevitably become the prey of demons, too. Maybe the problem is that blood magic allows the mage to exceed his ability, to symbolically go deeper into the Fade than he has the ability to control. An analogy might be a boxer who dopes with painkillers to stay in the fight longer. Yeah, he's going to be able to last longer than his opponent, but the painkillers are going to wear off eventually.

Sorry about the off-topicness of this post. It really has no bearing on Cullen, but if you squint and hold it sideways, it might be vaguely templar-related.

I think part of it might be that you have to actually make a deal with a demon to get blood magic. (Though my blood mage in Origins just threatened the hell out of one. )

In all seriousness, though, I can see why people would think making deals with demons is a stupid idea -- or spirits, as the Dalish don't seem to call demons demons and to them they're all Spirits with varying degrees of self motivation. 

Other than that, I think it does lead to a possibility of being vulnerable to possession. More vulnerable. Either when the user over uses their abilities, calls too many demons to their service (hello, Uldred!), or uses too much blood and magic and weakens themselves, the veil, and the fight they can put up.

[berelinde]

Dirgegun wrote...

I think part of it might be that you have to actually make a deal with a demon to get blood magic. (Though my blood mage in Origins just threatened the hell out of one. )

Jowan didn't. He learned blood magic from books. First Enchanter Irving removed the books from the library because he feared somebody would do just that. Anders, too, suggests that there are other ways to learn blood magic. Also from the wiki:

Anders[/b]: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders[/b]: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?
Merrill[/b]: Oh, no. I did.
Anders[/b]: Why would you do that?
Merrill[/b]: I needed his help. He was really very nice about it.
Anders[/b]: Of course he was! He's using you to get a foothold in a mortal brain!
Merrill[/b]: He's a spirit. He offered me his aid. I hardly think you're one to criticize.

[/list]I'm not saying that you're wrong! That may very well be why the Dalish are leery of it. It's just that that doesn't seem to be the only way. Anders tells Fenris this later, but I have a feeling that he was trolling him. After all, Fenris doesn't know how blood mages unlock that ability (but Merrill does), so Anders could tell him anything he thought would support his argument.

Anders[/b]: You know, to use blood magic you must look a demon in the eye and accept his offer.
Anders[/b]: I just figured some of them would say no. For aesthetic reasons, if nothing else.

[/list]Formatting is evil.

Edit2: I'm really getting off topic in a heinous way. Please feel free to ignore, change the subject, or otherwise lasso the thing and haul it back on course.

Modifié par berelinde, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:16 .

[Dirgegun]

berelinde wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

I think part of it might be that you have to actually make a deal with a demon to get blood magic. (Though my blood mage in Origins just threatened the hell out of one. )

Jowan didn't. He learned blood magic from books. First Enchanter Irving removed the books from the library because he feared somebody would do just that. Anders, too, suggests that there are other ways to learn blood magic. Also from the wiki:

Anders[/b]: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders[/b]: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?
Merrill[/b]: Oh, no. I did.
Anders[/b]: Why would you do that?
Merrill[/b]: I needed his help. He was really very nice about it.
Anders[/b]: Of course he was! He's using you to get a foothold in a mortal brain!
Merrill[/b]: He's a spirit. He offered me his aid. I hardly think you're one to criticize.

[/list]I'm not saying that you're wrong! That may very well be why the Dalish are leery of it. It's just that that doesn't seem to be the only way. Anders tells Fenris this later, but I have a feeling that he was trolling him. After all, Fenris doesn't know how blood mages unlock that ability (but Merrill does), so Anders could tell him anything he thought would support his argument.

Anders[/b]: You know, to use blood magic you must look a demon in the eye and accept his offer.
Anders[/b]: I just figured some of them would say no. For aesthetic reasons, if nothing else.

[/list]Formatting is evil.

Edit2: I'm really getting off topic in a heinous way. Please feel free to ignore, change the subject, or otherwise lasso the thing and haul it back on course.

Formatting is evil. Very, very evil. 

Actually I'm glad you corrected me, because I actually forgot about those points for the moment. Which makes me terrible, because Jowan is one of my favourite NPCs, the poor, luckless boy. 

The idea that just a cut could intise a mage to become curious about blood magic is interesting, actually. Hmm.

And it's not too far off topic! We're talking about Mages and TEMPLARS after all!

Modifié par Dirgegun, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:21 .

[Danny Boy 7]

berelinde wrote...

Dirgegun wrote...

I think part of it might be that you have to actually make a deal with a demon to get blood magic. (Though my blood mage in Origins just threatened the hell out of one. )

Jowan didn't. He learned blood magic from books. First Enchanter Irving removed the books from the library because he feared somebody would do just that. Anders, too, suggests that there are other ways to learn blood magic. Also from the wiki:

Anders[/b]: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders[/b]: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?
Merrill[/b]: Oh, no. I did.
Anders[/b]: Why would you do that?
Merrill[/b]: I needed his help. He was really very nice about it.
Anders[/b]: Of course he was! He's using you to get a foothold in a mortal brain!
Merrill[/b]: He's a spirit. He offered me his aid. I hardly think you're one to criticize.

[/list]I'm not saying that you're wrong! That may very well be why the Dalish are leery of it. It's just that that doesn't seem to be the only way. Anders tells Fenris this later, but I have a feeling that he was trolling him. After all, Fenris doesn't know how blood mages unlock that ability (but Merrill does), so Anders could tell him anything he thought would support his argument.

Anders[/b]: You know, to use blood magic you must look a demon in the eye and accept his offer.
Anders[/b]: I just figured some of them would say no. For aesthetic reasons, if nothing else.

[/list]Formatting is evil.

Edit2: I'm really getting off topic in a heinous way. Please feel free to ignore, change the subject, or otherwise lasso the thing and haul it back on course.

I'd say that considering this could be an issue with Cullen in the future it's perfectly on topic except in a rondabout sort of way. Anyway I assumed that the BEST way to learn blood magic was to get it straight from the source, but another way was to learn it from tomes, like in the Forbidden Tomes quest and how I imagine Hawke gets his specialization if going Blood Mage.

I think it's interesting that the elves refer to spirits and demons as the same thing since we know quite a bit about both having had a spirit as a companion and dealt with several demons who refer to each other as such. It may be that they are simply mimicking human's names for them but why take human forms?

[Dirgegun]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

I think it's interesting that the elves refer to spirits and demons as the same thing since we know quite a bit about both having had a spirit as a companion and dealt with several demons who refer to each other as such. It may be that they are simply mimicking human's names for them but why take human forms?

I think the sloth demon you meet in the fade during the Mage Origin makes a comment about how 'demon' is a human word? I could be long, I haven't re-played through that Origin in ages. So it might be a language the denizens of the Fade are picking up from the mages in the circles/non-Dalish mages.

Modifié par Dirgegun, 09 octobre 2012 - 01:40 .

[Jean]

Speaking of blood magic as I do another run of DAII, I've always wanted to know more about what the Band of Three was up to.
I'm hoping the thousands upon thousands of slaves sacrificed for a blood ritual to weaken the veil was more than just something to find for an achievement

[brushyourteeth]

Batteries wrote...

Speaking of blood magic as I do another run of DAII, I've always wanted to know more about what the Band of Three was up to.
I'm hoping the thousands upon thousands of slaves sacrificed for a blood ritual to weaken the veil was more than just something to find for an achievement

I got that achievement once. I don't really remember anything notable happening, but the codecies were really interesting.

I think Kirkwall would have been a much more interesting place and a much more believable if the devs had emphasized its unique blood magic/torture/slavery/cursed/near Corypheus history much more rather than making much of that a big secret to be uncovered for completionists. I've literally run out of the energy it takes to explain to other players why Kirkwall had so many insane blood mages, street gangs, crazed apostates, and cruel Templars.