13 réponses à ce sujet

[superomer12]

I played DA:O, then DA2, usual story..
Then I had opinions about both games, and I went to see other guys' opinions at Gamefaqs forums.

God firetruck it, is this game "that" bad?

Or DA:O "that" good?

[eroeru]

This has been elaborated over and over again.

Just google "is dragon age 2 bad" or something...

[eroeru]

And yes, there are people who think Dragon Age Origins a fantastic game. Me amongst them.

Edit: a couple of latest threads:

http://social.biowar.../index/7669134

http://social.biowar...-8078326-1.html

Modifié par eroeru, 26 août 2011 - 07:36 .

[Travie]

I've played through DA:O five times, and loved every minute of it.

I couldn't even force myself to do a second playthrough of DA2, since my eyes started bleeding (and I think one of my organs may have ruptured).

[naledgeborn]

I think the biggest factor when comparing DA:O and DA2 is the different origins (or lack thereof).

You could play DA:O six different times and depending on your imagination and rp skills they could have all felt different. I could be a stuck up Dalish Elf or merciless Dwarf Noble. Then I can switch up to Blood Mage and back to heroic Human Noble.

As cool as I want Hawke to be his/her story is only "one" story. In my head he's a Fereldan apostate refugee that's brothers with a Grey Warden. He saves his pirate wench from the Arishok in a one-on-one and starts a mage revolution. The End... There is only "one" Hawke in my head so to me there's no point in playing it again and again like Origins. So it's either Bio Ware stretches the story out or they move on to DA3.

Replayability is the main issue when looking at both games. DA2 does have some quality and design issues in itself, but it seems the company is rebounding from it since Legacy.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 26 août 2011 - 09:05 .

[Elywyn]

Maker's breath! Don't open new topics. There are already a lot about "this". Just post to them.

[highcastle]

There are a lot of topics on this. Already you can see there's lots of animosity towards DA2. Why? I'm not entirely sure. Possibly it has to do with expectations. It's not replayability, because then no one would play through it again, while I personally have gone through it more times than Origins, and I'm hardly the only one. It's not just the different origins, because like it or no, DAO's story was identical once you got out of the opening hour. It didn't magically transform into a different game. And DA2 has some legitimate issues. The most cited would be the reuse of art for side quests throughout the game. I agree: that's not good.

Mostly though, I think DA2 gets demonized for one main reason: it's different. It's a very personal narrative instead of the sweeping epic that DAO was. It's about the Champion as a person rather than saving the world, and that's not something people are used to. It's also in many respects a more tragic story, because despite Hawke's intentions (whatever you decide those are), he mostly ends up breaking things rather than putting them back together. It's a story that really only works if you put time and thought into your character's development. It hinges on your emotional reactions. Thus, if you don't flesh out Hawke, if the story fails to hook you, or you don't care about the characters for whatever reason, you probably won't like it. But if you do, it has the potential to be a very moving game.

DA2 does a wonderful job of wrestling with themes like the need for security against the desire for freedom. From a literary standpoint, there's a wealth of analysis you could do on both the plot and characters. As an English major, that really appeals to me. But not everyone plays video games to think. In my mind, however, DA2 is a great example of why this medium is a legitimate artform.

I know there are people who also cite DA2's supposed superficiality of choices. It's true, some of the bigger moments are set in stone. You know what, though? I'm okay with this. It makes for a tighter narrative and some very emotional moments. The most important choices in my book are how Hawke reacts to the events in his life. Some things are bigger than us. Hawke was the Champion, a major mover and shaker in Kirkwall, but the events around him were even bigger and completely out of his control. There's something very real about that, to me at least. Again, though, it's different. I don't think people are used to "losing" so many quests or feeling like a failure (without being able to restart from the last save and trying again, at least), but in many respects, DA2 was a game about just that. It doesn't really leave you feeling like an invincible hero the way DAO did, but that's okay. Do we really need every game to make us feel like gods? Can't a game deliver a different kind of experience? Yes it can; DA2 proves that. It also proves that a lot of people don't want that, which is the far more tragic thing in my book, because how else will this medium grow?

[naledgeborn]

^ Very well put analysis. However I'm still sticking to my guns of replayability. And yeah I agree about Hawke having no control of the situation. Reminds me of Spider-Man, "the flawed hero with everyday problems." The Warden could have been played as an infallible mythic hero, but also a reluctant one. That flexibility is also part of DA:O's praise.

[Salaya]

 I can't understand why people say that hate around DA2 is caused because "It's different". Obviously, if you reduce all the issues most of us have with the game, you could state "Well, they don't like it because it's different". But by saying that, you are avoiding the critical element: we don't like the changes, not because they are changes per se, but because the way that are implemented. 

I never believed that the action oriented idea for Mass Effect could work. I always thought that the best way to improve the original formula was refine the rpg elements. So, when I played the game for the first time I was confused. But after two hours, I was certain that I had a jewel in mi pc. 

In Da2's case, yes, I was shocekd at firs too, I was expecting something else. But the hours of gameply came and gave me a holy bunch of weird changes, from big gameplay issues that irrtated me (poor wave combat, amongst the most annoying) to little and unthinkable details as tons of carts blocking ways.

Hate around DA2 is not caused (only) because it's different. It's because the way those changes are put in motion is disliked by many, many players. 

[eroeru]

@Salaya

Yea, that's the truth of this.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

highcastle wrote...
It's a very personal narrative instead of the sweeping epic that DAO was.

It's supposed to be a very personal narrative but it's loses it's focus and try to be the sweeping epic that DAO was with it's three disjointed Acts that have no bearing with each others. 

highcastle wrote...
It's about the Champion as a person rather than saving the world, and that's not something people are used to.

No. It's about a Seeker and an unreliable third person narrator who recount the tale of a black book that depicit the Champion of Kirkwall, and that's not something people are used to.  

highcastle wrote...
It's also in many respects a more tragic story, because despite Hawke's intentions (whatever you decide those are), he mostly ends up breaking things rather than putting them back together.

According to Varric that is, and you believe every words he said? 

highcastle wrote...
It's a story that really only works if you put time and thought into your character's development.

I think I can agree on this. It just a matter of how you and I differ in perception. You ignore the frame that build Hawke's story from the beginning while I don't.

highcastle wrote...
It hinges on your emotional reactions. Thus, if you don't flesh out Hawke, if the story fails to hook you, or you don't care about the characters for whatever reason, you probably won't like it. But if you do, it has the potential to be a very moving game.

Indeed. The story fails to hook me. It's a three disjointed very short episodes instead of one coherent story, I don't care about the characters for many reasons but the most important of all are, one dimensional interaction and Hawke is nothing but a character inside a story told by Varric which is just an illusion of the past.

highcastle wrote...
DA2 does a wonderful job of wrestling with themes like the need for security against the desire for freedom. From a literary standpoint, there's a wealth of analysis you could do on both the plot and characters. As an English major, that really appeals to me. But not everyone plays video games to think. In my mind, however, DA2 is a great example of why this medium is a legitimate artform.

Call it whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that DA 2 is merely a story told by unreliable third person narrator that already happen. From my standpoint, it's the Seeker motive to find out the truth. Not Hawke himself. Not me. Therefore it offer little value for my role-playing experience. 

highcastle wrote...
I know there are people who also cite DA2's supposed superficiality of choices. It's true, some of the bigger moments are set in stone.

Of course it is. It already happen. You can't change the past. 

highcastle wrote...
You know what, though? I'm okay with this. It makes for a tighter narrative and some very emotional moments. The most important choices in my book are how Hawke reacts to the events in his life. Some things are bigger than us. Hawke was the Champion, a major mover and shaker in Kirkwall, but the events around him were even bigger and completely out of his control. There's something very real about that, to me at least. Again, though, it's different. I don't think people are used to "losing" so many quests or feeling like a failure (without being able to restart from the last save and trying again, at least), but in many respects, DA2 was a game about just that. It doesn't really leave you feeling like an invincible hero the way DAO did, but that's okay. Do we really need every game to make us feel like gods? Can't a game deliver a different kind of experience? Yes it can; DA2 proves that. It also proves that a lot of people don't want that, which is the far more tragic thing in my book, because how else will this medium grow?

Pity. It's been delivered by unreliable third person narrator while player character called Hawke mysteriously "gone".  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 28 août 2011 - 02:40 .

[LordKinoda]

I don't "hate" DA2, but I don't "love" it either. Despite DAO having a silent protagonist, I like it a little more. Mainly for the story, and Morrigan (really love that character, and Claudia Black just breathes so much life into her). The story had cohesion. It was always clear what you were going to ultimately do, stop the blight or die trying.

I did like the tweaks to combat for DA2. It's still basically the same for PC users, just more animations, and kill cutscenes for mages which was huge bonus for me. People say there is a huge difference in combat between the games but I can't say personally. I love the staff combat for mages in DA2 as well, leagues better to the slow repetitive jerking motion from DAO.

DA2 uses a lot of areas repeatedly for different quests, which is definitely a thorn in it's side. The story is a little scattered and the main plot/theme of the game isn't really elaborated on till late in the game.

I definitely loved that they gave Hawke a voice. This is a HUGE boon for me, but not for everybody. I've expressed my opinions plenty in other threads on this forum on this particular topic, so I won't do so here in this thread as well

In the end, if I had to give scores to the games on a 1 to 10 scale it would be thus:

DAO 9
DA2 7.75

Both of these games could of easily been 10's for want of details. Little tweaks in certain areas here and there and they would of both been universally liked IMO.

Should you NOT play DA2 ? Definitely pick it up if you enjoyed DAO, it's still a fairly decent game, if a little unfinished and rushed. I liked the game, I don't think it deserves the full on hatred that some people seem to harbor for it though.

[Stanley Woo]

We've already got numerous topics discussing both Dragon AGe II compared to Dragon Age Origins. Please visit one of those threads to discuss this topic. THank you.

End of line.