577 réponses à ce sujet

[swn32]

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

They're gone because they're not user friendly. The things you listed are one of the main reasons why I hated the first one and gave up after the first mission. Maps for example are a must if you've got a big area to explore(there's nothing fun about getting lost and spending an hour find your way back), pretty much the same with objective markers. As for the cover system. it's a useful tool in some situations, for example peeking around corners when you're sneaking around. But to summarize what I'm trying to say: It all comes down to what's good game design and what's bad. Make something needlessly complicated or difficult and people will hate it(even with small details like how the saving system works) Imagine if you were playing a game in which the only way to save is a checkpoint system which only kicks in every 2 hours. Sure it might seem like a challenge but most will frustrated and turned off by this(I know I would). I studied Game Design as a part of my course so I know a bit about the subject and what I mentioned about good game design is a proven theory. In any case, the ideal in game design would be somewhere in-between(not too simplified because it would be too easy and striaghtforward, not too complicated you don't want to bog down the game with too many limitations)

Deus Ex 1 had images of many area layouts. They are much more fun to read than a GPS type map since u actually have to keep track of where you are going. "User-friendliness" and all this streamlining is whats making gaming too easy and less fun these days. Earlier games used to require a proper sense of direction, now its just hand holding. Even if maps are there, i dont think there is any reason objective markers on the hud should be there.

And I dont think there is any reason an FPS should have a cover system. Peak buttons like in the previous game shouldve been implemented instead. Its obvious they introduced this lame cover system just to cater for console crowd. Because of the cover system, it is possible to see around corners without having to expose yourself. Really ridiculous. Also please dont tell me u are actually FOR free health regeneration. The previous game had an augmentation where you had to actually spend BE energy to regen health or use augmentation upgrade cannisters to reduce the cost.

One more thing I'd want to mention is the original deus ex was meant to be complicated. Simplifying it too much just so that anyone can get into it, makes it something else.

[OdanUrr]

I wouldn't, and in fact didn't, waste praxis kits in the sound radar + cones of vision + tracking augs since you can pretty much figure it out on your own. Immunity to toxic gases or electric shocks (two different augs) can open up new paths for you to explore but aren't really that important earlier in the game. The no-recoil aug is only useful if recoil's a problem for you. Also, you can save up praxis points on upgrades such as making no sound while sprinting simply by crouching, a strategic use of cover, and using stealth from time to time. Oh, yeah, before I forget, see through walls, don't need that one. Everything else is up for grabs.

[Boiny Bunny]

What does everybody make of the so called 'announcement' thus far?

[Andarthiel_Demigod]

swn32 wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

They're gone because they're not user friendly. The things you listed are one of the main reasons why I hated the first one and gave up after the first mission. Maps for example are a must if you've got a big area to explore(there's nothing fun about getting lost and spending an hour find your way back), pretty much the same with objective markers. As for the cover system. it's a useful tool in some situations, for example peeking around corners when you're sneaking around. But to summarize what I'm trying to say: It all comes down to what's good game design and what's bad. Make something needlessly complicated or difficult and people will hate it(even with small details like how the saving system works) Imagine if you were playing a game in which the only way to save is a checkpoint system which only kicks in every 2 hours. Sure it might seem like a challenge but most will frustrated and turned off by this(I know I would). I studied Game Design as a part of my course so I know a bit about the subject and what I mentioned about good game design is a proven theory. In any case, the ideal in game design would be somewhere in-between(not too simplified because it would be too easy and striaghtforward, not too complicated you don't want to bog down the game with too many limitations)

Deus Ex 1 had images of many area layouts. They are much more fun to read than a GPS type map since u actually have to keep track of where you are going. "User-friendliness" and all this streamlining is whats making gaming too easy and less fun these days. Earlier games used to require a proper sense of direction, now its just hand holding. Even if maps are there, i dont think there is any reason objective markers on the hud should be there.

And I dont think there is any reason an FPS should have a cover system. Peak buttons like in the previous game shouldve been implemented instead. Its obvious they introduced this lame cover system just to cater for console crowd. Because of the cover system, it is possible to see around corners without having to expose yourself. Really ridiculous. Also please dont tell me u are actually FOR free health regeneration. The previous game had an augmentation where you had to actually spend BE energy to regen health or use augmentation upgrade cannisters to reduce the cost.

One more thing I'd want to mention is the original deus ex was meant to be complicated. Simplifying it too much just so that anyone can get into it, makes it something else.

Hmm, I guess I'm neither for or against health regeneration in this game(I could probably live with not having it if healing stims were more readily available).
First person peek as you said bears the risk of discovery and I can see how that would ruin many a person's chance at the Ghost achievement. Any game with an emphasis on stealth SHOULD have a wall stick and lean because it's very useful and not as fiddly as first person lean(iut worked in Thief:DS and MGS so why not Deus Ex:HR). And don't say it's too easy, I am playing on the Middle Difficulty and I'm not exactly breezing through it or getting copious amount of health, energy or ammo.

[Cutlass Jack]

swn32 wrote...

Deus Ex 1 had images of many area layouts. They are much more fun to read than a GPS type map since u actually have to keep track of where you are going. "User-friendliness" and all this streamlining is whats making gaming too easy and less fun these days. Earlier games used to require a proper sense of direction, now its just hand holding. Even if maps are there, i dont think there is any reason objective markers on the hud should be there.

And I dont think there is any reason an FPS should have a cover system. Peak buttons like in the previous game shouldve been implemented instead. Its obvious they introduced this lame cover system just to cater for console crowd. Because of the cover system, it is possible to see around corners without having to expose yourself. Really ridiculous. Also please dont tell me u are actually FOR free health regeneration. The previous game had an augmentation where you had to actually spend BE energy to regen health or use augmentation upgrade cannisters to reduce the cost.

One more thing I'd want to mention is the original deus ex was meant to be complicated. Simplifying it too much just so that anyone can get into it, makes it something else.

Most of the HUD markers can be shut off in options and no one actually forces you to use the cover system, so I'm not seeing the cause for complaint personally. Don't like the quest markers? Turn em off and have fun.

Anyway it would be illogical for Jensen to have less user friendliness than I have with my current smartphone. I certainly have a better GPS than he does. If anything his UI systems seem a little backwards by current standards.

[Bryy_Miller]

swn32 wrote...
One more thing I'd want to mention is the original deus ex was meant to be complicated. Simplifying it too much just so that anyone can get into it, makes it something else.

Why wouldn't you want the widest possible net to be cast?

[AtreiyaN7]

swn32 wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

They're gone because they're not user friendly. The things you listed are one of the main reasons why I hated the first one and gave up after the first mission. Maps for example are a must if you've got a big area to explore(there's nothing fun about getting lost and spending an hour find your way back), pretty much the same with objective markers. As for the cover system. it's a useful tool in some situations, for example peeking around corners when you're sneaking around. But to summarize what I'm trying to say: It all comes down to what's good game design and what's bad. Make something needlessly complicated or difficult and people will hate it(even with small details like how the saving system works) Imagine if you were playing a game in which the only way to save is a checkpoint system which only kicks in every 2 hours. Sure it might seem like a challenge but most will frustrated and turned off by this(I know I would). I studied Game Design as a part of my course so I know a bit about the subject and what I mentioned about good game design is a proven theory. In any case, the ideal in game design would be somewhere in-between(not too simplified because it would be too easy and striaghtforward, not too complicated you don't want to bog down the game with too many limitations)

Deus Ex 1 had images of many area layouts. They are much more fun to read than a GPS type map since u actually have to keep track of where you are going. "User-friendliness" and all this streamlining is whats making gaming too easy and less fun these days. Earlier games used to require a proper sense of direction, now its just hand holding. Even if maps are there, i dont think there is any reason objective markers on the hud should be there.

And I dont think there is any reason an FPS should have a cover system. Peak buttons like in the previous game shouldve been implemented instead. Its obvious they introduced this lame cover system just to cater for console crowd. Because of the cover system, it is possible to see around corners without having to expose yourself. Really ridiculous. Also please dont tell me u are actually FOR free health regeneration. The previous game had an augmentation where you had to actually spend BE energy to regen health or use augmentation upgrade cannisters to reduce the cost.

One more thing I'd want to mention is the original deus ex was meant to be complicated. Simplifying it too much just so that anyone can get into it, makes it something else.

Then maybe you shouldn't play it if its accessibility offends you so very much. I'm having fun with it, and it's been pretty challenging (largely since I'm going for the Pacifist achievement using my stun gun and takedowns for the most part). As other people haven't pointed out, you're free to not use cover, but in real life, I'm pretty sure that a police officer and/or soldier would, oh, take cover if someone were, say, trying to kill them. Taking cover when someone's trying to shoot at you strikes me as being, I don't know...sensible and logical.

[Weiser_Cain]

Yes, how dare anyone not fully appreciate anything I like!

[swn32]

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

First person peek as you said bears the risk of discovery and I can see how that would ruin many a person's chance at the Ghost achievement. Any game with an emphasis on stealth SHOULD have a wall stick and lean because it's very useful and not as fiddly as first person lean(iut worked in Thief:DS and MGS so why not Deus Ex:HR).  And don't say it's too easy, I am playing on the Middle Difficulty and I'm not exactly breezing through it or getting copious amount of health, energy or ammo.

The fact that u can see what you shouldnt normally be able to see without having to expose yourself is just wrong. FPS peek forces you to play carefully. In Deus Ex 1, I had to use the sonar eye augmentation to see whats going on across corners or risk peeking. With cover system like this, there is no peek at all. I pretty much hate it whenever the game goes into third person view.

Also my issue isnt with the difficulty rather with the simplification of what is supposed to be a successor to Deus Ex.

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Most of the HUD markers can be shut off in options and no one actually forces you to use the cover system, so I'm not seeing the cause for complaint personally. Don't like the quest markers? Turn em off and have fun. 
Anyway it would be illogical for Jensen to have less user friendliness than I have with my current smartphone. I certainly have a better GPS than he does. If anything his UI systems seem a little backwards by current standards.

Its the job of the game to force a challenge. I do turn off quest markers, but its impossible to completely avoid the crappy cover system when the whole game is designed around it. Especially since there is no FPS peek allowed. Also i dunno about u, but I find static maps much more fun to use than a GPS (atleast you need a sense of direction to use them).

Then maybe you shouldn't play it if its accessibility offends you so very much. I'm having fun with it, and it's been pretty challenging (largely since I'm going for the Pacifist achievement using my stun gun and takedowns for the most part). As other people haven't pointed out, you're free to not use cover, but in real life, I'm pretty sure that a police officer and/or soldier would, oh, take cover if someone were, say, trying to kill them. Taking cover when someone's trying to shoot at you strikes me as being, I don't know...sensible and logical.

If you have played the original deus ex, you would know that its possible to stick to cover and sneak around without having a lame cover system. It's much more rewarding to do it that way in pure first person view. Infact its illogical to have a complete view of an area when u are crouching behind cover.
 
Also just to make myself clear, i dont absolutely hate this game. It's still enjoyable. It's just nothing like the first game. I mean the first game was far far superior. So I'm a bit disappointed.

Modifié par swn32, 30 août 2011 - 12:30 .

[Johnsen1972]

Can someone tell me what the difference is if you play "Deus Ex" difficulty?

[DragonRageGT]

Still starting Montreal in my first playthrough, superhacker, not so much stealth char. It reminds me Escape from Butcher's Bay sometimes, like some mentioned, and I loved that game! Plus, I hack everything. Every terminal, door, secret, alarm, anything. There's so much fun in it! I'm stockpiling Nukes and Stop Worms. 34 and 20 of them. I rarely need to use them. L33t 5k11l, Master Hacker... it's a lot of fun!

I'm very "merciful" but sometimes they really get it. Like killing all civilians in some hotel in China? They asked for it. They all died painful deaths! I really like the dialogue system and persuasion too. At least my Jensen says exactly what I picked for him to say! No way paraphrasing system is any better than that!

Wish I could re-watch the cutscenes as I unlock them, though.

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Can someone tell me what the difference is if you play "Deus Ex" difficulty?

One shotgun shot and bye bye Adam.  =)

Modifié par RageGT, 30 août 2011 - 11:32 .

[Johnsen1972]

even with augs for less damage?

[fchopin]

I stopped playing DEHR after about 2 hours because i wanted to do a second play through of TW2 but now i am ready to continue with the game.

[Andarthiel_Demigod]

swn32 wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

First person peek as you said bears the risk of discovery and I can see how that would ruin many a person's chance at the Ghost achievement. Any game with an emphasis on stealth SHOULD have a wall stick and lean because it's very useful and not as fiddly as first person lean(iut worked in Thief:DS and MGS so why not Deus Ex:HR).  And don't say it's too easy, I am playing on the Middle Difficulty and I'm not exactly breezing through it or getting copious amount of health, energy or ammo.

The fact that u can see what you shouldnt normally be able to see without having to expose yourself is just wrong. FPS peek forces you to play carefully. In Deus Ex 1, I had to use the sonar eye augmentation to see whats going on across corners or risk peeking. With cover system like this, there is no peek at all. I pretty much hate it whenever the game goes into third person view.

Also my issue isnt with the difficulty rather with the simplification of what is supposed to be a successor to Deus Ex.

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Most of the HUD markers can be shut off in options and no one actually forces you to use the cover system, so I'm not seeing the cause for complaint personally. Don't like the quest markers? Turn em off and have fun. 
Anyway it would be illogical for Jensen to have less user friendliness than I have with my current smartphone. I certainly have a better GPS than he does. If anything his UI systems seem a little backwards by current standards.

Its the job of the game to force a challenge. I do turn off quest markers, but its impossible to completely avoid the crappy cover system when the whole game is designed around it. Especially since there is no FPS peek allowed. Also i dunno about u, but I find using static maps much more fun to use than a GPS (atleast you need a sense of direction to use them).

Then maybe you shouldn't play it if its accessibility offends you so very much. I'm having fun with it, and it's been pretty challenging (largely since I'm going for the Pacifist achievement using my stun gun and takedowns for the most part). As other people haven't pointed out, you're free to not use cover, but in real life, I'm pretty sure that a police officer and/or soldier would, oh, take cover if someone were, say, trying to kill them. Taking cover when someone's trying to shoot at you strikes me as being, I don't know...sensible and logical.

If you have played the original deus ex, you would know that its possible to stick to cover and sneak around without having a lame cover system. It's much more rewarding to do it that way in pure first person view. Infact its illogical to have a complete view of an area when u are crouching behind cover.
 
Also just to make myself clear, i dont absolutely hate this game. It's still enjoyable. It's just nothing like the first game. I mean the first game was far far superior. So I'm a bit disappointed.

Maybe you like it but most would prefer a proper map.  Maybe just for one mission it might be interesting to go in blind(Thief did it) but not for the entire game. I think the problem is similar to why people disliked DA2. A sequel does not guarantee that the game will be exactly the same(in terms of gameplay) unless stated otherwise. It might share some similarities but it might use a new system all together but share the same world and characters. I mean look at Bioshock, that was supposedly hailed a "successor" to System Shock but it was quite different. It had a few similar elements but overall quite different. That doesn't make it any less of a game. I hate to say it but games like DX1, System Shock and the other unique games of the 90s will never come back because the game industry has changed to suit the audience of today(wether you like it or not) The only way you'll see something like DX1 coming to the modern generation is in the Indie Games industry. In fact, there's a new game called E.Y.E.- Divine Cybermancy, a little bit buggy atm but it feels much like the original Deus Ex which is probably why I didn't like it. It might be more enjoyable after it's got a few more patches to fix the issues.

[Il Divo]

swn32 wrote...

 Simplifying it too much just so that anyone can get into it, makes it something else.

Yeah, complicated...

[DragonRageGT]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

even with augs for less damage?

Haven't tried that yet. But it should only mean enemies are tougher, hit harder and have more resistance too. I found plentiful ammo and items on that difficulty so I don't think it has any impact on that area.

fchopin wrote...

I stopped playing DEHR after about 2 hours because i wanted to do a second play through of TW2 but now i am ready to continue with the game.

I can't bring myself to replay it before 2.0 is out!  I want TW2 v2.0! woot!

Modifié par RageGT, 30 août 2011 - 12:25 .

[Tommy6860]

RageGT wrote...


Haven't tried that yet. But it should only mean enemies are tougher, hit harder and have more resistance too. I found plentiful ammo and items on that difficulty so I don't think it has any impact on that area.

I have so much ammo, it isn't funny. I have only used my stun gun twice.
I love doing the stealth. It can be difficult, but the challenge is
tight and spot on fun. Playing it on normal diifficulty.

I can't bring myself to replay it before 2.0 is out!  I want TW2 v2.0! woot!

Same here, I am waiting for 2.0

Modifié par Tommy6860, 30 août 2011 - 12:29 .

[slimgrin]

So far HR doesn't seem simplified to me. But then I confess I never finished the original.

[fchopin]

RageGT wrote...

fchopin wrote...

I stopped playing DEHR after about 2 hours because i wanted to do a second play through of TW2 but now i am ready to continue with the game.

I can't bring myself to replay it before 2.0 is out!  I want TW2 v2.0! woot!

Can’t wait either, i want my score on the board, maybe we can have some sort of competition.

[Nigawatts]

Wish there was a blind fire upgrade aug.

[In Exile]

Il Divo wrote...
Stun + 3-4 exploding barrels should do the trick. For my second play through Barret wasn't as bad. I'm more worried about fighting Yelena again.

She's easier. If you have shock resistance, you can just blow up the environmnet. Stun gun + upgraded typhoon will also kill her fast. 

[In Exile]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
This game has one of the best Hacking systems I've seen once you figure it out. At least the closest to the Shadowrun/Cyberpunk tabletop versions I've seen in a game. Its actually pretty strategic but it does require you to know what all the various nodes do and planning your route before you starte hacking.  

Not really. You can totally speed run through it, and there are only usually 2 or so paths to the goal, too. I think they could have made it harder. 

swn32 wrote...
Deus Ex 1 had images of many area layouts. They are much more fun to read than a GPS type map since u actually have to keep track of where you are going. "User-friendliness" and all this streamlining is whats making gaming too easy and less fun these days. Earlier games used to require a proper sense of direction, now its just hand holding. Even if maps are there, i dont think there is any reason objective markers on the hud should be there.

There are great objective reasons: 1) my sense of direction as a person sucks, why am I getting punished? 2) this is stupid, why do I have to keep getting lost in levels?

The image layouts were a nice flavour, though, and I thought that Give me Deus Ex would remove the maps & radar. 

Anyway, the fact that they were harder doesn't mean fun at all. In the same way that some people might like candle wax on their genitals - it's not for everyone.

And I dont think there is any reason an FPS should have a cover system. Peak buttons like in the previous game shouldve been implemented instead. Its obvious they introduced this lame cover system just to cater for console crowd. Because of the cover system, it is possible to see around corners without having to expose yourself.

Actually, if you are in cover at an edge and don't peak out, guards close by will see you. 

Peak buttons suck because you can't really pace yourself and how much you expose yourself around each corner.

In RL, you can lie prone and just stick out your head a little. A peak button has you randomly trying to get the least amount of body through so you can "cheat" and catch the view without exposing much of yourself.

Really ridiculous. Also please dont tell me u are actually FOR free health regeneration. The previous game had an augmentation where you had to actually spend BE energy to regen health or use augmentation upgrade cannisters to reduce the cost.

The previous game also had so much more health. You can easily collect 30 health packs in the game.

One more thing I'd want to mention is the original deus ex was meant to be complicated. Simplifying it too much just so that anyone can get into it, makes it something else.

Oh. We're back to people wanting to be special because of the games they play. Man, what is with this thing that people want to feel superior for their hobby. 

[In Exile]

slimgrin wrote...

So far HR doesn't seem simplified to me. But then I confess I never finished the original.

It's not that it's a simple game.

It's partly "they changed it, so it's ruined" (e.g. with BE and the energy - in Deus Ex you use up BE if you use any aug... but you also have items that can recharge it that are much more plentiful and you have drones that can charge it up for you;  in Deus Ex your only recharge gives you back 1 bar and so forces you to be as conservative, but diffferently) and partly "if it isn't super hardcore, it sucks" (e.g. not forcing you to use real maps). 

[Eternal Phoenix]

There's armor in this game right? How many armor pieces are there that change Adam's appearance somewhat? I've only ever seen him wearing that Neo coat and then wearing that stealth type armor.

[In Exile]

Elton John is dead wrote...

There's armor in this game right? How many armor pieces are there that change Adam's appearance somewhat? I've only ever seen him wearing that Neo coat and then wearing that stealth type armor.

No, the apperance is static.