55 réponses à ce sujet

[whywhywhywhy]

PrimalEden wrote...

Well no, Joker is still alive if you want to finish your Shepard's playthrough. But you do get to see him die nonetheless. Unlike Liara. And believe me, I've tried looking for ways to see if she can die. She can't. In any way. Thpppth. (No, it's nothing personal against Liara; I just resent characters that get special treatment over others)
Hathur would be best to ask in explaining why people develop such a strong feeling for the ship they sail or fly in. Mainly due to awareness that the hunk of metal you're piloting is all that stands between you and silent, terrifying void. Who knows, it's just as likely thanks to Joker keeping the Normandy stable enough for everyone alive to get off the ship instead of veering off into the nearby planet's atmosphere. Especially since they got sucker blasted by a vessel they thought they were cloaked from.
In a way, there is acknowledgement that Shepard's death affected Joker.
"They're not all bad. Saved your life. Let me fly."
Maybe the Alliance gave Joker hell for costing them their first human Spectre. Maybe that's why they removed him as a pilot. The point being, the first reason Joker states why Cerberus is not all bad is because they bring your character back.
And yes, while Joker does an awful job socializing, that's pretty much what he admits when asked about upgrades. One of the main reasons he'd be attached to the Normandy is because it allows him to be the most useful to Shepard.
You can also watch the most awful ending where Shepard dies at the end with Joker desperately holding onto the Commander. And from providing cover fire himself no less.

A lot of what you've written has nothing to do with Joker's plot armor.  Joker can't die in anyway that allows the story to continue, the fact you get a game over if you fail his playable level is proof of this not proof otherwise.  So if Liara has plot armor so does Joker his is just shinier.

And to those who suggest his death means the death of everyone, might I mention Presley and all the other nonames(blue shirts) that dies from console feedback and explosions within the ship.  I guess Joker's console is reinforced with a certain rare metal used to make armor.  Not to mention that nice little ME force wall that was used to protect only Joker it didn't shield any other visible part of the ship where people were dying.

edit:
At least Liara was away and that was her reason for not being killed, but Joker is right there and something always protects him from certain death.
@everyone
I guess it's ok hate Liara and love Joker that's fine but if your going to say it's because of plot armor then you have to hate all plot armored characters.  Just say you hate them if you do, more acceptable then an excuse.  I hate Joker.  See I feel much better.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 27 août 2011 - 08:42 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

PrimalEden wrote...

Well no, Joker is still alive if you want to finish your Shepard's playthrough. But you do get to see him die nonetheless. Unlike Liara. And believe me, I've tried looking for ways to see if she can die.

By your logic Liara can die too. You just gotta let the Arrival timer run out.

But no. Let us hate on characters for dumb reasons. Why do we not also bash on the VS for being able to survive ME2?

[Melra]

Joker is too awesome to die. He's the chosen one who'll save us all from certain annihilation.

[Tooneyman]

Joker is Biotic and a Godly. Beware his ultimate power. The cap he wears. Holla. If you dare to challenge Joker. His mighty cap will destroy your soul. Remember this well.

[whywhywhywhy]

Lizardviking wrote...

PrimalEden wrote...

Well no, Joker is still alive if you want to finish your Shepard's playthrough. But you do get to see him die nonetheless. Unlike Liara. And believe me, I've tried looking for ways to see if she can die.

By your logic Liara can die too. You just gotta let the Arrival timer run out.

But no. Let us hate on characters for dumb reasons. Why do we not also bash on the VS for being able to survive ME2?

Ahh you get it.

[whywhywhywhy]

Melrache wrote...

Joker is too awesome to die. He's the chosen one who'll save us all from certain annihilation.

One broken bone at a time

[ladyvader]

Lizardviking wrote...

PrimalEden wrote...

Well no, Joker is still alive if you want to finish your Shepard's playthrough. But you do get to see him die nonetheless. Unlike Liara. And believe me, I've tried looking for ways to see if she can die.

By your logic Liara can die too. You just gotta let the Arrival timer run out.

But no. Let us hate on characters for dumb reasons. Why do we not also bash on the VS for being able to survive ME2?

The VS is too busy being bash for Horizon for people to care about the plot armor they recieved in ME2.

[CrookedAsylum]

People aren't bashing on Liara for the plot armor; they're bashing on her for the plot armor, blatant favoritism, her stalker-like tendencies, railroad friendship, and the fact that her Mary Sue limit is over 9000. At least the other characters stick to just under 9000.

It's the whole package that they don't like, not just the plot armor, though it does have something to do with it; it has allowed for Liara and Liara alone to get a ridiculous amount of content - especially compared to the other characters and overall special treatment.

[alex90c]

Good thing Liara is my favourite character then.

trolololo

[PauseforEffect]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

People aren't bashing on Liara for the plot armor; they're bashing on her for the plot armor, blatant favoritism, her stalker-like tendencies, railroad friendship, and the fact that her Mary Sue limit is over 9000. At least the other characters stick to just under 9000.

It's the whole package that they don't like, not just the plot armor, though it does have something to do with it; it has allowed for Liara and Liara alone to get a ridiculous amount of content - especially compared to the other characters and overall special treatment.

 
Essentially this for Liara. My point with Joker is that you at least get to see him die personally in some way. The VS can be interchanged if you want to see the other die.
A lot of people's complaints about Joker being responsible for Shepard's death is what I'm arguing against. If you dislike him simply because you still have to have him around in ME3, that's one thing. To say he's unkillable is arguable.

[Seboist]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

People aren't bashing on Liara for the plot armor; they're bashing on her for the plot armor, blatant favoritism, her stalker-like tendencies, railroad friendship, and the fact that her Mary Sue limit is over 9000. At least the other characters stick to just under 9000.

It's the whole package that they don't like, not just the plot armor, though it does have something to do with it; it has allowed for Liara and Liara alone to get a ridiculous amount of content - especially compared to the other characters and overall special treatment.

This.

[Asari_Party]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

It's the whole package that they don't like, not just the plot armor, though it does have something to do with it; it has allowed for Liara and Liara alone to get a ridiculous amount of content - especially compared to the other characters and overall special treatment.

There are two characters who have more content than Liara so far -> Tali and Garrus
You know, the only characters who are permanent squadmates in both games (and return as squadmates in ME3 as well)

[shepskisaac]

Roxy12 wrote...
There are two characters who have more content than Liara so far -> Tali and Garrus
You know, the only characters who are permanent squadmates in both games (and return as squadmates in ME3 as well).

And that is despite being optional to recruit (Garrus in ME1 & Tali in ME2) and being able to die just as easily as anyone else in ME2. Having 'fan-favourite' armor is worse than plot armor.

[CroGamer002]

Plot armor is just one of reasons why I dislike Liara, not sole reason.

And it's only minor negative point.

[Drone223]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

People aren't bashing on Liara for the plot armor; they're bashing on her for the plot armor, blatant favoritism, her stalker-like tendencies, railroad friendship, and the fact that her Mary Sue limit is over 9000. At least the other characters stick to just under 9000.

It's the whole package that they don't like, not just the plot armor, though it does have something to do with it; it has allowed for Liara and Liara alone to get a ridiculous amount of content - especially compared to the other characters and overall special treatment.

Liara is charcter that I like and dislike at the same time (like cos good romance, usefull powers at times rather interesting charcter, Dislike what CrookedAsylum mentioned even as a LI you can still see some hero worship)

Joker plot amour imo is that he is Shepards side-kick, the pilot who gets Shepard from place to place Shepard's Normandy crew is not complete without Joker 

[x3KittyKat]

He most certainly does have plot armor along with Liara. I feel however that the plot armor might be removed in ME3. Say at the final battle or end game.

[Ryzaki]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

People aren't bashing on Liara for the plot armor; they're bashing on her for the plot armor, blatant favoritism, her stalker-like tendencies, railroad friendship, and the fact that her Mary Sue limit is over 9000. At least the other characters stick to just under 9000.

It's the whole package that they don't like, not just the plot armor, though it does have something to do with it; it has allowed for Liara and Liara alone to get a ridiculous amount of content - especially compared to the other characters and overall special treatment.

QFMMFT

[Inspectre]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

People aren't bashing on Joker for the plot armor; they're bashing on him for the plot armor, blatant favoritism, his stupid-like jokes, railroad friendship, and the fact that his Gary Stu limit is over 9000. At least the other characters stick to just under 9000.

Fixed to share my feelings.

[Obsydian]

meh. if joker were to die in either game, the game would not continue. who would fly the Normandy? sure, there are probably pilots out there as good as him... but who is Shepard gonna trust enough to fly a PROTOTYPE ship, that no one has ever flown before, other than Joker? And furthermore, who is Shepard gonna trust to fly that ship into certain death and doom?
It would take months of training for someone to learn.

that said, i feel fairly certain that none of the characters have "plot armor" Liara's not even a full squaddie, so its stupid to even bring her into this conversation, as if you don't do the DLC, then you don't even get to bring her with you on any missions.
Miri is the closest to having plot armor, but even she can die in the game.

*shrug* just my credit chit.

[who would know]

Never liked Joker. Definitely didn't appreciate the forced buddy dynamic when TIM reunited us. Lilihierax (turian mechanic from Noveria) would be my pick for pilot.

[Seboist]

who would know wrote...

Never liked Joker. Definitely didn't appreciate the forced buddy dynamic when TIM reunited us. Lilihierax (turian mechanic from Noveria) would be my pick for pilot.

I always enjoyed putting that clown in his place.

[Dave of Canada]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

People aren't bashing on Liara for the plot armor; they're bashing on her for the plot armor, blatant favoritism, her stalker-like tendencies, railroad friendship, and the fact that her Mary Sue limit is over 9000. At least the other characters stick to just under 9000.

It's the whole package that they don't like, not just the plot armor, though it does have something to do with it; it has allowed for Liara and Liara alone to get a ridiculous amount of content - especially compared to the other characters and overall special treatment.

Pretty much this.

[whywhywhywhy]

Then why not bash Joker for his concerns for flying and ships over the safety of the crew and his Commander. Actions that led to the death of the main character. That's worst then ANYTHING Liara has ever done.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 08 septembre 2011 - 07:21 .

[Dave of Canada]

laecraft wrote...

Frankly, I don't trust Joker one bit, and I believe he's the best possible candidate for betraying Shepard in ME3.

He's the last boss, he rushes at you and then trips and breaks into tiny pieces.