539 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

Morroian wrote...
The NPCs may have needed more work in general but Hawke and the companions looked fine IMHO with great facial animation. Flemeth was presented that way for a reason. I've started playing Deus EX HR and the character design and look is clearly inferior. 

What?!

Modifié par GodWood, 28 août 2011 - 01:30 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

alex90c wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Helekanalaith wrote...

...Are those.... dead cats tied to that staff?

I don't even know what the hell that is.

I think they are supposed to be dogs. And that staff is from the newest item pack. It's supposed to be symbolic of Ferelden, with the dogs and all. It just ends up looking tacky and rather ridiculous. They could have found better, more thoughtful ways to incorprate dog imagery into something if they wanted it to be symbolic of Ferelden.

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Filament wrote...
and the I-don't-even-know-what-happened-to-elves in DAO without a problem?

Say what?

Have you actually looked at DA:O shrieks closely?

Pointed ears.  Check
Skinny bodies.  Check

What other elven features do you  suppose they should have?

Turian neck. Check
Digitigrade feet. Check.
Insect mandibles. Check
Ears more pointy and on the top of their head to look like antennae than ears. Check.

Yes that looks so much more like an elf than DA2's genlocks do to dwarves, what was I thinking...

First off, I agree with everything you've said regarding the Genlocks. The new Genlocks have a similar build to the Dwarves, and as has been established the taint warps size (Qunari and Ogres are a case in point). Note that I said similar people.

Second, the design of the shrieks was a generally good idea that needed tweaking, like most of DAO's Darkspawn.

Third:



Can somebody tell me what to call those weird protrusions that begin at the jawline?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 août 2011 - 05:06 .

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Just so this doesn't get lost in the shuffle

hmmm... I might approve of the new Hurlocks if they had these traits:

1) More bloody, dirty, and less shiny white
2) Had different noses (some being torn or ripped), and have some who have the original Hurlock type nose
3) wore armor that actually looks like the original Darkspawn armor, or something that looks half-assed.
4) had sharp teeth again
5) had monstrous tattoos again
6) lose their hair. That made them look more like Uruk-Hai for me.
7) appeared in that level of detail on all platforms.

and to go even further

For Ogres, they need:

1) Less mushed up face
2) Completely gray or completely purple
3) Soulless eyes
4) A return to the DAO teeth that they had. There is a difference between the two sets of teeth



For Genlocks:

1) Tinker around with the color scheme. Most people would like them to not be beige. Me? I couldn't care less about their color. I love the new design. The Genlocks in Origins were the only ones that needed an overhaul, and the new design works
2) Make the Genlock Alphas taller than regular Genlocks like they are now, but smaller than Hurlock Grunts



For Shrieks:

1) a return to the DAO style (color scheme and sharp teeth included)
2) drop the protrusions from the old style
3) move the ears down
4) give them a more elf-like body. Looking at the old design, they seem to have pointed feet, while the new design has more normal-esque feet.
5) make their heads more narrow and have less of a giant forehead.

I think these are all good ideas. Except I think the size of Genlock Alphas is fine. Hurlock alphas are pretty big too. I hope this is a trend we'll see in ogre alphas eventually.

Thing is though, the Hurlocks are described as being taller than their Genlock cousins, Alphas included. I don't mind Genlock Alphas being bigger than a normal Genlock, but I'd like a normal Hurlock to be at least a couple inches taller than the Genlock Alphas.

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

But I like the genlock alphas being as big as they are. If they shrunk they wouldn't be as intimidating charging at you with their little toy shields anymore.

re: shrieks, I call them mandibles, but apparently I'm just seeing things and need to look at the model closer.

Their jaw itself protrudes in a way that looks kind of werewolf-esque, rather than simply elven.

I'd note that I don't have a problem with them looking vastly different, per se. (though the mandibles really don't need to be there) I'm just pointing it out to call into question this notion that the new genlocks are so ridiculous for morphing into something bigger and bulkier than regular dwarves.

Well the Hurlock grunts could be changed to be a few inches taller, and the Hurlock Alphas could be a few inches taller as well.

Keep the Genlock Alpha height, and just make the Hurlocks taller.

And agreed on the Shrieks. A few tweaks would've sufficed, since they were already original in design and didn't look like anything from LotR (which isn't necessarily a bad thing if something does look like something from LotR)

[WidowMaker9394]

DA2 looks ugly and not just graphic wise. The main problem is your ugly art. Sure it might look distinctive now but that hardly helps when you get the urge to puke whenever you see the game.

[Sylvianus]

Bioware if you are going to keep the art style, listen to this :

1. Attention to detail. Bowstrings, scabbards, visible passage of time if applicable, more vegetation, more books and objects, dirt and filth in slums, lavish decorations in noble quarters, different clothing style depending on nationality, etc... Little things add a lot.

2. Consistency between what is said (lore, plot) and what is shown (gameplay, ambience). From blood mages to elves to plot consequences. I want to see them in-game. I want consequences if I choose to play a Blood Mage, at my own risks. If the elves are so charming and attractive, then ugly elves should be the exception. If there's a change in the place's politics, I want to see those changes in an ambient way, not only plot-wise.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 août 2011 - 06:03 .

[Zanallen]

Filament wrote...

re: shrieks, I call them mandibles, but apparently I'm just seeing things and need to look at the model closer.

They certainly look like mandibles to me.

[csfteeeer]

Sylvianus wrote...

Bioware if you are going to keep the art style, listen to this :

1. Attention to detail. Bowstrings, scabbards, visible passage of time if applicable, more vegetation, more books and objects, dirt and filth in slums, lavish decorations in noble quarters, different clothing style depending on nationality, etc... Little things add a lot.

2. Consistency between what is said (lore, plot) and what is shown (gameplay, ambience). From blood mages to elves to plot consequences. I want to see them in-game. I want consequences if I choose to play a Blood Mage, at my own risks. If the elves are so charming and attractive, then ugly elves should be the exception. If there's a change in the place's politics, I want to see those changes in an ambient way, not only plot-wise.

This is one of my main concerns.

This is a work of the ENGINE, and their engine is just not good enough for this.

MAYBE, i could like the art style they have, IF they change engines.

Origins had something going for it, it looks kinda dirty, and bloody, the problem, radicated on the engine.

If they change engine for one that can make something worthy of being called "a game from 2011", then they could work something out with their current art style.

DA2 is somewhere between realistic and cartoony,  but more realistic with it's texture style, and for that, they need a better engine, UNLESS, they go for full Celshade, where textures are minor (like Borderlands or Prince of Persia)

it doesn't seem like they can fill the map with details with the engine they have.

[Savber100]

GodWood wrote...

Morroian wrote...
The NPCs may have needed more work in general but Hawke and the companions looked fine IMHO with great facial animation. Flemeth was presented that way for a reason. I've started playing Deus EX HR and the character design and look is clearly inferior. 

What?!

Actually he (or is it she?) is right. 

Graphically, DX:HR is kinda bad even compared to DA2. 

But AESTHETICALLY-speaking, DX: HR looks amazing and is the only reason why it looks better than DA2 overall.. 

Modifié par Savber100, 28 août 2011 - 07:19 .

[RagingCyclone]

Looking through this since I was on here yesterday, despite some of the creature design issues discussed, I think some could have been more widely accepted if there had been more attention given to the details. I'm posting two shots here, the first is Stroud from DA2, and the second from Origins of my warden wearing the same armor that a mod ported to Origins. Both games are set on my computer to maximum graphics, and to me, and I am sure a lot of others, the details in Origins were much better despite in being a DX9 instead of DX11. The basic flaw in the new art design is the lack of attention to the details in DA2 itself that causes the most frustration, at least from my perspsective:

Stroud from DA2:


My warden from Origins:

[Nerevar-as]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Helekanalaith wrote...

...Are those.... dead cats tied to that staff?

I don't even know what the hell that is.

I think they are supposed to be dogs. And that staff is from the newest item pack. It's supposed to be symbolic of Ferelden, with the dogs and all. It just ends up looking tacky and rather ridiculous. They could have found better, more thoughtful ways to incorprate dog imagery into something if they wanted it to be symbolic of Ferelden.

It´s that codex? Because dead national symbols seems more insulting than symbolic to me. If they said it was an orlesian staff from the conquered times it would be more believable.

[Sylvianus]

Badass warden is badass.

@ raging clone You know what ? When i saw this pic, I said myself, wow, beautiful Hawk. Finally, it's possible to have good graphics. ( It was because of the armor which is in DA2 actually, that's why I thought that  )

After I read that :  " My warden from Origins: "

<_<

XD

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 août 2011 - 07:51 .

[Zjarcal]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Looking through this since I was on here yesterday, despite some of the creature design issues discussed, I think some could have been more widely accepted if there had been more attention given to the details. I'm posting two shots here, the first is Stroud from DA2, and the second from Origins of my warden wearing the same armor that a mod ported to Origins. Both games are set on my computer to maximum graphics, and to me, and I am sure a lot of others, the details in Origins were much better despite in being a DX9 instead of DX11. The basic flaw in the new art design is the lack of attention to the details in DA2 itself that causes the most frustration, at least from my perspsective:

Stroud from DA2:
*snip*

My warden from Origins:
*snip*

Eh, in terms of details they looks the same to me. The lighting does help the armor look, eh... shinier?

[alex90c]

Sylvianus wrote...


Badass warden is badass.

@ raging clone You know what ? When i saw this pic, I said myself, wow, beautiful Hawk. Finally, it's possible to have good graphics. ( It was because of the armor which is in DA2 actually, that's why I thought that  )

After I read that :  " My warden from Origins: "

<_<

XD

Sup Vaughan.

[Sylvianus]

warden's face is much more accurate, with a real relief, we see the contours of his cheekbones, their width and height. We see the apple joggle, and the ravages of time on his face.

Look at the throat of each.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 août 2011 - 08:07 .

[RagingCyclone]

Zjarcal wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

Looking through this since I was on here yesterday, despite some of the creature design issues discussed, I think some could have been more widely accepted if there had been more attention given to the details. I'm posting two shots here, the first is Stroud from DA2, and the second from Origins of my warden wearing the same armor that a mod ported to Origins. Both games are set on my computer to maximum graphics, and to me, and I am sure a lot of others, the details in Origins were much better despite in being a DX9 instead of DX11. The basic flaw in the new art design is the lack of attention to the details in DA2 itself that causes the most frustration, at least from my perspsective:

Stroud from DA2:
*snip*

My warden from Origins:
*snip*

Eh, in terms of details they looks the same to me. The lighting does help the armor look, eh... shinier?

I agree, but lighting is a detail. Ask any photographer. Legacy changed the lighting, and look especially at the scenes with Varric and Cassandra. I think there is some good stuff in DA2 if the devs put the effort to bring it out.

[Zjarcal]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Eh, in terms of details they looks the same to me. The lighting does help the armor look, eh... shinier?

I agree, but lighting is a detail. Ask any photographer. Legacy changed the lighting, and look especially at the scenes with Varric and Cassandra. I think there is some good stuff in DA2 if the devs put the effort to bring it out.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

And you're right, Legacy made everything look nicer thanks to the lighting effects, they need to focus on that. Honestly, I think the lighting is what borks a lot in DA2. I mean, we even saw how different Alistair looked when showcased in a different lighting.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 28 août 2011 - 08:13 .

[rak72]

Alistair looking spiffy in his Warden garb in DAO:


Not so spiffy in DA2:


concept art for King Alistair in DA2:


King Alistair by Schratty

The dog staff is disgusting!  I saw that David G wanted ser pounce a lot in the game, and the best the art department would do for him would be a staff will a cat skull.  He declined that offer.

Modifié par rak72, 28 août 2011 - 08:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sylvianus wrote...

warden's face is much more accurate, with a real relief, we see the contours of his cheekbones, their width and height. We see the apple joggle, and the ravages of time on his face.

Look at the throat of each.

Indeed. DA2 faces do not look good to me.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Hey be nice. So alistair put on a little weight he's living the kings life now.

[RagingCyclone]

Yes, I agree with the faces. The reason I said I think it's the teeth model is because of what a mod called Realistic Teeth did to faces back in Origins. It took extra work to adjust modded faces because the teeth model changed the parameters of the face model itself. The new faces have teeth that appear similar to that mod, hence why I think the faces also changed. The teeth model limits the parameters of the facial structure.

[Sylvianus]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

warden's face is much more accurate, with a real relief, we see the contours of his cheekbones, their width and height. We see the apple joggle, and the ravages of time on his face.

Look at the throat of each.

Indeed. DA2 faces do not look good to me.

Thanks, you saved me. I thought I was the only one who have eyes. The faces are too smooth in DA2, they do not look good indeed. Personally I do not find it normal that the faces in a sequel are less accurate than those of the first episode. Normally, that's the contrary. I hope many improvements for DA3.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 août 2011 - 08:40 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I will say though that they had good facial animations. I watched my brother replaying Origins, and the improvement is quite significant.

On their own, facial animations do not do much for me however.