539 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

erynnar wrote...
Now that I could get behind, anything but the cartoony WoW look. I said of all it's flaws DAO's art style didnt' need a ret con, it needed tweaking. It could have easily been tweaked to the TW look instead.

I don't think it could have easily between tweaked to TW2. I mean, I don't think you needed to change the face gen tools, but otherwise, everything else had to go: all of the clothing and environments would have to have been redesigned to get the dirty/gritty feel of a medieval game, and on top of that the armour would have had to be redesigned to look more authentic. 

I think that's what bothers me most about DA:O: the faux realism. 

[bEVEsthda]

Helekanalaith wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

Range Rover wrote...

DA2 is the best thing that happened to the franchise, could only imagine DA3. Good work as always Bioware.

For your very own personal enjoyment maybe.

In more general terms though, DA2 cannot be said to have been good for the franchise. In fact it must be said to have been bad for the franchise. It may even have killed off the franchise, though this is still in the future.

Yet the art-style wasn't the cause of that.

DAII featured some great ideas, alas their implementation was lacking in some areas here and there. If anything, that's what hurt the product in the long run. However, there's no denying that DAII did some things that are a good foundation for future products. If anything hurt the product (aside from limited resources and recycling) it's the players' expectations. You can't always get what you want, even if you're the number one fanbase in the world.

"However, there's no denying that DAII did some things that are a good foundation for future products"

I absolutely disagree!  I can see nothing at all that is "good foundation" in DA2. Nothing! Absolutely nothing! So there sure as hell is denying. But nvm, no point to return to that discussion here and now.

What I'm interested in, here, is your statement that the art-style wasn't the cause. I think it might have a bigger impact than you and many perhaps realize. If you like a game, you have far greater tolerance towards flaws and things that aren't to your preference. You also become hypersensitive to flaws, if you take a dislike to the game. And an art style that rubs you the wrong way can have a considerable influence at that.

[Elhanan]

bEVEsthda wrote...

"However, there's no denying that DAII did some things that are a good foundation for future products"

I absolutely disagree!  I can see nothing at all that is "good foundation" in DA2. Nothing! Absolutely nothing! So there sure as hell is denying. But nvm, no point to return to that discussion here and now.

What I'm interested in, here, is your statement that the art-style wasn't the cause. I think it might have a bigger impact than you and many perhaps realize. If you like a game, you have far greater tolerance towards flaws and things that aren't to your preference. You also become hypersensitive to flaws, if you take a dislike to the game. And an art style that rubs you the wrong way can have a considerable influence at that.

Edit.

Much like the continued rantings of critics, I suppose....

[In Exile]

bEVEsthda wrote...
What I'm interested in, here, is your statement that the art-style wasn't the cause. I think it might have a bigger impact than you and many perhaps realize. If you like a game, you have far greater tolerance towards flaws and things that aren't to your preference. You also become hypersensitive to flaws, if you take a dislike to the game. And an art style that rubs you the wrong way can have a considerable influence at that.

Well, sure, but then the point is really that the art style isn't bad but you just dislike the idea of DA2.

[erynnar]

"This. So much. I'm not an artist but this sums up my feelings pretty well.

The Deep Roads is by far my favorite setting in the DA series. I loved it in the books, I loved it in Origins, but not so much in DA2. DA2's version didn't create any sense of foreboding or tension that Origins did with Bownammar in particular. It was all so...clean. The art style seems to favor bright environments with sparse details.

When I think of the Deep Roads I picture something dark and gruesome. I thik of like Dead Space. DA2's Deep Roads was more like Blackrock Spire...if that makes any sense."

@OnionXI I thought the new Deep Roads looked like Blackrock Spire from WoW too! Hence the argument of going for a more "distinctive" style just making me giggle.

[bEVEsthda]

In Exile wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
What I'm interested in, here, is your statement that the art-style wasn't the cause. I think it might have a bigger impact than you and many perhaps realize. If you like a game, you have far greater tolerance towards flaws and things that aren't to your preference. You also become hypersensitive to flaws, if you take a dislike to the game. And an art style that rubs you the wrong way can have a considerable influence at that.

Well, sure, but then the point is really that the art style isn't bad but you just dislike the idea of DA2.

OK, you have definitely misunderstood something here.

[FieryDove]

erynnar wrote...

@OnionXI I thought the new Deep Roads looked like Blackrock Spire from WoW too! Hence the argument of going for a more "distinctive" style just making me giggle.

They reminded me of The Exodar.

[DreGregoire]

I just figure the darkspawn went from tainted rotting individuals to liquid deprived stretched skin fiends. I just know there is no way somebody could get the taint in the deep roads of DA2, they would have to have gotten it from when they were in Ostagar of DA:O or maybe DA:A but the symptons didn't show up for a year plus some.



Above editted because of too many details that created a spoiler.

Edit Edit: That and I swear I saw Skeletor.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:19 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

In Exile wrote...
I think that's what bothers me most about DA:O: the faux realism. 

Indeed. I personally think DA2's style is worse, but I do not praise DA:O for its style either. What I can say is that it wasn't (as) over the top for me, so eas(ier) to ignore.

But this goes back to a fundamental issue. The entire direction. I believe that in almost everything, Bioware does not know exactly what it wants DA to be. Only my impression though. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:19 .

[Liaren]

 I like how the races look more in DA2, they are much more distinctive. But I like the looks of the creatures more in DA:O. The hurlocks and ogres are much more terrifying in DA:O than in DAII. If darkspawn are ever going to play a bigger role again I hope they tweak them a bit to look more like their DA:O counterparts. 

[In Exile]

bEVEsthda wrote...
OK, you have definitely misunderstood something here.

It sounds like you're saying that it isn't about whether it's a good or bad style per se, but how the whole game is, and then that draws back on the style.

But if you think (I hate PC VO and no origins!) then you look negatively on DA2, and suddenly the artstyle is ****. Whereas for DA:O you think (OMG It's like BG!) and then you think the artstyle is tolerable/good. 

[erynnar]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

In Exile wrote...
I think that's what bothers me most about DA:O: the faux realism. 

Indeed. I personally think DA2's style is worse, but I do not praise DA:O for its style either. What I can say is that it wasn't (as) over the top for me, so eas(ier) to ignore.

But this goes back to a fundamental issue. The entire direction. I believe that in almost everything, Bioware does not know exactly what it wants DA to be. Only my impression though. 

You know, that's part of my frustration and the impression I got too, Knight. Seriously, DAO 's art direction may not have deserved praise by some standards, but it didnt' need a complete overhaul either. Tweaking to be more medival instead of WoW' hotrod liscious.

[bEVEsthda]

In Exile wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
OK, you have definitely misunderstood something here.

It sounds like you're saying that it isn't about whether it's a good or bad style per se, but how the whole game is, and then that draws back on the style.

But if you think (I hate PC VO and no origins!) then you look negatively on DA2, and suddenly the artstyle is ****. Whereas for DA:O you think (OMG It's like BG!) and then you think the artstyle is tolerable/good. 

Okay... Maybe it works so for you. That is what you say. But it wasn't what I said.

[bEVEsthda]

erynnar wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

In Exile wrote...
I think that's what bothers me most about DA:O: the faux realism. 

Indeed. I personally think DA2's style is worse, but I do not praise DA:O for its style either. What I can say is that it wasn't (as) over the top for me, so eas(ier) to ignore.

But this goes back to a fundamental issue. The entire direction. I believe that in almost everything, Bioware does not know exactly what it wants DA to be. Only my impression though. 

You know, that's part of my frustration and the impression I got too, Knight. Seriously, DAO 's art direction may not have deserved praise by some standards, but it didnt' need a complete overhaul either. Tweaking to be more medival instead of WoW' hotrod liscious.

I have noted that what some don't like about DA:O and DA2 art style, is the non-realistic rendering. I would call it 'painted look'. Both games have that, though in different varieties. I would guess DA2 "watercolor" with its less rich ranges of values, is the cheaper of them, requiring less work on light maps and maybe enhances performance on consoles.
Funny enough, I happen to like both render looks. I like DA:O's better. It looks like fantasy illustrations in goache. But I don't think DA2 render look is bad. I kinda like that too.
I have understood though, that I'm in a minority and mosts critics of DA2's art style (like In Exile) want more realistic rendering. I respect that and I can of course easily embrace a more realistic render. But I it may have performance issues on consoles.

However, to round off, what more than anything else makes me hate DA2, still really is the art direction (includes combat anime and Hawke, both red nose and name). And what makes me dislike DA2's art direction are the designs. Unenlighted, calculated, soulless, visionless, uncohesive, rippoffs in retarded spirit. Perhaps I wouldn't mind if it hadn't been DA. But this poop is what they have made Dragon Age into. That is really the kernel of my DA2 hate.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think DAO did have a distinctive style, but it wasn't obviously distinctive.

While many games these days go for a realistic appearance within the game, what DAO did that I thought was distinctive was embrace the Realist approach to art. The teeth are a terrific example. Unlike the idealised realism of other modern games, DAO didn't idealise as much. It went for a Realist approach, rather than a realistic approach., and I really liked it.

DA2's approach was more obviously distinctive, but also less realist, and that's not a trade that makes me happy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

simfamSP wrote...

The Qunari and Elves look much better than they did before.

I didn't like the DA2 elves at all, but I'll agree that the DA2 Qunari were excellent.

[Wulfram]

simfamSP wrote...

Fair enough :-) I guess the elves could use some major tweaking. City Elves I feel should look different to the Dalish. Pehaps the Dalish shoul look more like the Elves in DA2 whilst the City Elves look more *human* due their mixed blood.

City Elves don't have mixed blood.  Children of Elves and Humans are Human rather than Half-Elf

[In Exile]

bEVEsthda wrote...
Okay... Maybe it works so for you. That is what you say. But it wasn't what I said.

You said:

"I think it might have a bigger impact than you and many perhaps realize. If you like a game, you have far greater tolerance towards flaws and things that aren't to your preference. You also become hypersensitive to flaws, if you take a dislike to the game. And an art style that rubs you the wrong way can have a considerable influence at that."

[In Exile]

simfamSP wrote...

I agree. DA2 seemed very much like Hollywood's approach to medieval times. But some of DA2's art choices were brilliant. The Qunari and Elves look much better than they did before.

I think DA2 largely abandoned a medieval style, and just kept the level of technology & metallurgy around what laypeople might think the medieval period was like.

DA:O was, to me, a very Holywood style medieval approach.

[csfteeeer]

simfamSP wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I think DAO did have a distinctive style, but it wasn't obviously distinctive.

While many games these days go for a realistic appearance within the game, what DAO did that I thought was distinctive was embrace the Realist approach to art. The teeth are a terrific example. Unlike the idealised realism of other modern games, DAO didn't idealise as much. It went for a Realist approach, rather than a realistic approach., and I really liked it.

DA2's approach was more obviously distinctive, but also less realist, and that's not a trade that makes me happy.

I agree. DA2 seemed very much like Hollywood's approach to medieval times. But some of DA2's art choices were brilliant. The Qunari and Elves look much better than they did before.

Ofcourse if we bring up this photo...
http://t2.gstatic.co...PT7glYPvr0sWJOA

It's an unfair arguement. But if we look at this:



You can see the general improvements.

No, for me the Elves are  a mixed bag, some look cute(like Merrill, and that chick who was to get raped or whoever she is), others looks HORRIBLE(like the one you show above)

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'd like to see a game go for a realist take on the Dark Ages. The Medieval period has been highly idealised by popular culture, so most people seem to think they know how it should look, and any deviation from that draws complaints.

I think a Dark Ages representation would avoid that problem, because we don't see the Dark Ages portrayed very often.

[Sidney]

In Exile wrote...


DA:O was, to me, a very Holywood style medieval approach.

DAO was a horribly generic medieval setting. It was basically England as Tolkein might have imagined it tossed with the sald of late medieval /early renaissance technology that everyone uses.

For once, I'd love to see something set in the earlier middle ages and not in a fake England. Give me a world w/o stone fortifications, half timbered buildings, longbows and platemail and you'd actually rather easily create a distinctive look.