539 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Wulfram wrote...

As it is, it's hard to understand why Cassandra is interested in a minor failure such as Hawke.

No-ones knows how powerless Hawke was. One of the themes is clearly how legends are not reality, its Varric's storytelling which has built Hawke up.

[Spell Singer]

The only thing cartoonish about eithe DA:O or DA 2 is the oversized weapons and absurd armour. Otherwise both games present a more or less realistic character accounting for the fantasy element. Neither game is intended to be photorealistic but calling either cartoonish doesn't strike me as a reasonable charge to lay on either of them.

[Cutlasskiwi]

I agree with In Exile about this, DA:O was no less cartoony. And I don't understand what all the pictures you just posted is supposed to prove.. That DA2 is more "cartoony"? I just have to ask, what makes DA2 more cartoony to you?

And the pictures of elves that you posted, is it the shape of their features that make them more cartoony? I just don't see it.

[Sylvianus]

Please Bioware, a change for DA3. Many people are dissatisfied with this art style.

In any case, the subject recurs often, despite that you said it was unlikely to change.

The division in this topic is interesting. We are also divided on the customization. Well, with more negative opinions than positives.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 septembre 2011 - 01:21 .

[Wulfram]

@ Sylvianus. If I was forced to pick out a shot from those as cartoony, I'd pick the one of Oghren for the strong colours and resemblance to Obelix

[alex90c]

Yellow Words wrote...

I agree with In Exile about this, DA:O was no less cartoony. And I don't understand what all the pictures you just posted is supposed to prove.. That DA2 is more "cartoony"? I just have to ask, what makes DA2 more cartoony to you?

And the pictures of elves that you posted, is it the shape of their features that make them more cartoony? I just don't see it.

The thing I find cartoony are the new DA2 armour designs. It's just SPIKES SPIKES EVERYWHERE and it looks LAME. DA:O had the pauldrons thing going on, but tbh I personally found it looked far more convincing than SPIKES ARE AWESOME.

[erynnar]

Anarya wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Anarya wrote...
I've noticed. I need to stop rolling my eyes or I might get a sprain. An eye sprain.

And re:story-- DA2's story was really much darker than Origins', hands down. And more mature as well. There's a theme of failure despite your best efforts and intentions, of realizing the limits of your control over your fate and the world, and coming to terms with that. That's a very mature thing to realize and deal with, and really was my favorite aspect of the story. I can't think of another game off the top of my head that deals with that, whereas I can think of a million where I save the world from the looming evil fill-in-the-blank. Not that the story was perfect, but it had some great things going for it.

However, it is hard for a videogame to make the main protagonist fail despite his/her best efforts without making the player feel as if he/she (the player) failed as well. It's a very fine line to walk, and for some people they fell off said line.
I salute what they attempted to do with the story. It was a refreshing change of pace from the usual true and tried paths trodden a thousand times before. I personally liked the idea behind it, even if it sometimes failed to communicate properly due to the game's execution. However, I also understand that for some people, ineffectual character = ineffectual player, and thus the undercurring theme is lost in the frustration of being unable to derive any sort of result from their (the players') effort.

Yes, it is a challenge, and there's lots of people who are never going to like a game with a story like that for whatever reason. I wish more games would take a little more risk with story but I understand why they don't. I do wonder what the reception to the story would have been like if the other faults had been ironed out though.

Which story? there were three. It was a trifecta of disjointed mess with plot holes the size mammoths pulling 747s. I liked all three stories, though mage templar was my least fav.

[Sylvianus]

The thing I find cartoony are the new DA2 armour designs. It's just SPIKES SPIKES EVERYWHERE and it looks LAME. DA:O had the pauldrons thing going on, but tbh I personally found it looked far more convincing than SPIKES ARE AWESOME.

You talk about that for example ? ( Aveline )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 septembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[alex90c]

Sylvianus wrote...

The thing I find cartoony are the new DA2 armour designs. It's just SPIKES SPIKES EVERYWHERE and it looks LAME. DA:O had the pauldrons thing going on, but tbh I personally found it looked far more convincing than SPIKES ARE AWESOME.

You talk about that for example ? ( Aveline )

Nah, I had in mind the retarded champion armour. The icing on the cake is just the huge feeding trough, I mean what the hell is up with that.

Modifié par alex90c, 02 septembre 2011 - 01:30 .

[Wulfram]

The Champions armour has spikes, and there's the silly looking armour you get off Alrik's corpse, but they didn't seem all that ubiquitous otherwise. Oh, and the Darkspawn I guess, but they had a thing for spikes in Origins too.

I'll take spikes over the huge shoulders, personally - and the cleavage or midriff exposing female light armour.

edit: also, the warrior starting armour Hawke is wearing in the above picture is IMO the coolest armour ever.  Shame it's obsolete as soon as you reach Kirkwall.

Modifié par Wulfram, 02 septembre 2011 - 01:32 .

[Elhanan]

Ahhh! The 'pick and choose' screenies competition continues, I see.

If one does not like the armored look of the Warden, or of Hawke; change clothes. I did, as I hated those silly DAO hats; a decent reason why choosing AW was such a great specialty for mages, too In DA2, if you hate the helms; turn off the visual. Easy peasy! Sets and pieces abound in both games, so there are plenty of options. If you are on the PC, add a mod with even more choices.

Art is subjective; find something that suits your taste. And if you dislike them all, go elsewhere and be of good cheer!

[Rockpopple]

Champion armor is awesome. It just looks great, especially on Mages or Rogues.

As for the opening screenshots, they were very misleading to call that a comparison of art styles. Better to compare how characters now look, animate and feel in the games rather than compare the shots of an Ogre at different angles and distances. If you can't make your point fairly or without dissembling, don't bother making it at all.

New artstyle is not only new, it's great. Glad BioWare's sticking to it.

[fightright2]

Chris Priestly wrote...

And I disagree. While the art for DAO was good, it was not distinctive. DA II had a distinctive style.

To
illustrate, think of cosplay. For DAO pretty much the only cosplay we
had was Morrigan. The reason being, she was pretty much the only
defineable character. The man, unless you happen to look like Alistair
or whomever, were just guys in suits of armor. They could have been DAO,
they could have been LotR. Hard to say. Now we get Isabelas and Aveines
and Flemeths, but we also get Hawkes, Varrics, Fenrises... Fenri... a
bunch of Fenris.

YOU may not like it as much, and that always
comes down to "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", but the art was
changed to make it destinct from other fantasy games, and it
accomplished that very well.
../../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png

I don't want to derail the discussion but I just wanted to point this out as feedback since it has to do with making a distinct DA style apart from other games.

Seeing pictures like these reminds me how the elves in DAO were living up to the lore of being beautiful and alluring to humans.
While I understand BW wanting to make their elves distinguishable apart  from all other elves in games, this, to me, serves as proof that they stepped back from fufilling that lore.

The pictures on the right do not look in any way graceful or alluring.

By definition, alluring means very attractive or tempting; enticing; seductive; fascinating; charming.

In living up to the lore, the elderly elves should also display a gracefulness that also serves as additional distinction from humans, in that no matter the circumstance, they should not only appear alluring in beauty but also retain it to a great degree in age.

Yes, Merrill and Fenris look great, but they are edited to be good looking as they are LIs.
Every elf should be, by their very definition taken from their lore, beautiful and alluring.

But unless all other elves are to be edited with the same care and time as they were, I say, drop the 'distinct DA2 style' of elves and reclaim the lore of their beauty and restore them back to their gracefulness alluringness.



 

[Mark of the Dragon]

I dodn't mind the artstyle for DA2 but it could have been better. I agree the companion looks stood out more but the creatures themselves were less defined. The biggest complaint I see are the darkspawn. THey looked absolutely goofy. They lost all the dangerous forboding feel thay had in Origins. THe only crature I think improved was the quanari. The graphics were more crisp and had more color which was great but the whole feel felt  a little to cartoony foinr me. This is a dark fantasy epic not a cartoon. I think you guys can still stand out and make your own style without sacrificing the darker elements. Oh yea and I wan't big on DA2's elves. I hated the smushed faces.

Modifié par Mark of the Dragon, 02 septembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[bEVEsthda]

@Sylvianus
Great series of posts!
Thank you.

[SwordsmanofShadow]

DA2's art style was horrendous. To the max. To the tenth power. When I started the first chapter in the game I thought I was looking at a Xbox/PS2 game.

Before, we would excuse such things like graphics compared to other games due to the fact that Bioware made games with companions, multiple choices, etc. But games like Skyrim and The Witcher are starting to show that you can have all that and good looking graphics.

I can understand why they wanted to distinguish their art style (I even agree that more distinction between races was needed), but this was a major step backwards. The only good that came out of it was the Qunari. Everything else, even the humans, came out looking worse than DAO. Don't get me started on how they F-ed up the elves.

Bioware will have to step up their game for DA3. The story and gameplay need to be out of this world, because as it stands, this level of art style isn't going to compete with the inevitable Witcher 3, Elder Scrolls VI, Fallout 4, etc.

[Cutlasskiwi]

fightright2 wrote...

Yes, Merrill and Fenris look great, but they are edited to be good looking as they are LIs.
Every elf should be, by their very definition taken from their lore, beautiful and alluring.

But unless all other elves are to be edited with the same care and time as they were, I say, drop the 'distinct DA2 style' of elves and reclaim the lore of their beauty and restore them back to their gracefulness alluringness.

Now I just have to ask you, did you think that this was true in DAO? I remember plenty of elves that didn't look good or that I would call alluring.

[Atakuma]

Yellow Words wrote...

fightright2 wrote...

Yes, Merrill and Fenris look great, but they are edited to be good looking as they are LIs.
Every elf should be, by their very definition taken from their lore, beautiful and alluring.

But unless all other elves are to be edited with the same care and time as they were, I say, drop the 'distinct DA2 style' of elves and reclaim the lore of their beauty and restore them back to their gracefulness alluringness.

Now I just have to ask you, did you think that this was true in DAO? I remember plenty of elves that didn't look good or that I would call alluring.

Exactly, I don't understand why people take that one thing about elven beauty as some sort of absolute, when it clearly isn't. Most elves in Origins were just average looking and some were downright ugly.

[TEWR]

Yes, Merrill and Fenris look great, but they are edited to be good looking as they are LIs.
Every elf should be, by their very definition taken from their lore, beautiful and alluring.

Not just Merrill and Fenris. There's also Athenril, Orsino, Marethari, Ilen, Paivel, Fenarel, Ineria, Arianni, and other Dalish elves.

And that DAO style Warden makes me want to laugh because of the clown make-up. I will say that the face is better, but that doesn't mean the DAII style is a total bust. Just because one elf is ugly doesn't mean they all are. Bioware just needs to design the majority of elves to be graceful and attractive, and I think DAII did that if you don't count the cardboard cut out furniture people.

[Nerevar-as]

They are. The donkey like ears and nose-forehead line means they are always in the uncanny valley. Merrill and Fenris noses are a bit different from the average elf, and thus look better.

[Rockpopple]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes, Merrill and Fenris look great, but they are edited to be good looking as they are LIs.
Every elf should be, by their very definition taken from their lore, beautiful and alluring.

Not just Merrill and Fenris. There's also Athenril, Orsino, Marethari, Ilen, Paivel, Fenarel, Ineria, Arianni, and other Dalish elves.

And that DAO style Warden makes me want to laugh because of the clown make-up. I will say that the face is better, but that doesn't mean the DAII style is a total bust. Just because one elf is ugly doesn't mean they all are. Bioware just needs to design the majority of elves to be graceful and attractive, and I think DAII did that if you don't count the cardboard cut out furniture people.

You forgot the shopkeeper elf and his daughter that he thought was murdered. Can't remember either of their names.

There were actually a large number of good-looking elves, and coincidentally they were all the fully-modeled elves and not the low-rez population fodder elves. Personally I don't see what's so "Beautiful and alluring" about what is basically a skinny, short human with pointy ears. These ones do look distinctive and as character design alone have plenty of artistic appeal.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the complaints were simply because to some people different = unappealing. 

[Atakuma]

Nerevar-as wrote...

They are. The donkey like ears and nose-forehead line means they are always in the uncanny valley. Merrill and Fenris noses are a bit different from the average elf, and thus look better.

The uncanny valley only applies to nearly photo real representations of humans, DA2 elves aren't supposed to look like humans and aren't nearly realistic enough anyway.

[TEWR]

Rockpopple wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes, Merrill and Fenris look great, but they are edited to be good looking as they are LIs.
Every elf should be, by their very definition taken from their lore, beautiful and alluring.

Not just Merrill and Fenris. There's also Athenril, Orsino, Marethari, Ilen, Paivel, Fenarel, Ineria, Arianni, and other Dalish elves.

And that DAO style Warden makes me want to laugh because of the clown make-up. I will say that the face is better, but that doesn't mean the DAII style is a total bust. Just because one elf is ugly doesn't mean they all are. Bioware just needs to design the majority of elves to be graceful and attractive, and I think DAII did that if you don't count the cardboard cut out furniture people.

You forgot the shopkeeper elf and his daughter that he thought was murdered. Can't remember either of their names.

There were actually a large number of good-looking elves, and coincidentally they were all the fully-modeled elves and not the low-rez population fodder elves. Personally I don't see what's so "Beautiful and alluring" about what is basically a skinny, short human with pointy ears. These ones do look distinctive and as character design alone have plenty of artistic appeal.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the complaints were simply because to some people different = unappealing. 

Yea Lia and her father Elren were designed well. I found Elren to be average looking, but the reason he looks that way is probably because he's a single father trying to protect his daughter from a psychopathic serial killer. Stress and panic age the body.

There's also Orana, Zevran (imo. Though he could be tweaked to look better), and other elves that look good. Most people didn't like Jethann, but I think that's due to what he's wearing and that he has blue eyes and red hair. Something about blue eyes and red hair like Jethann had made me think something was wrong with his design.

Origins had plenty of ugly elves as well as beautiful elves. If people looked, they could see that. Some even had abnormally huge mouths.

Frankly, I'm wondering if people would've had such a problem if this had been the design from the start for the elves.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 septembre 2011 - 06:58 .

[fightright2]

Yellow Words wrote...


Now I just have to ask you, did you think that this was true in DAO? I remember plenty of elves that didn't look good or that I would call alluring.

No, I don't think every elf in DAO fit that description. I remember some awful looking ones.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


Not
just Merrill and Fenris. There's also Athenril, Orsino, Marethari,
Ilen, Paivel, Fenarel, Ineria, Arianni, and other Dalish elves.

And
that DAO style Warden makes me want to laugh because of the clown
make-up. I will say that the face is better, but that doesn't mean the
DAII style is a total bust. Just because one elf is ugly doesn't mean
they all are. Bioware just needs to design the majority of elves to be
graceful and attractive, and I think DAII did that if you don't count
the cardboard cut out furniture people.

Yes, there were some that were more agreeable than others.

But you are right in that the majority of elves need to be graceful and attractive.

Being as it is, there are haters and likers alike for either side. So perhaps they could meet in the middle and tone down the look from DA2 a bit and make the 'attractiveness' fitting toward every elf.

Stick to the lore and make them beautiful to what most humans believe to be 'beautiful' is all I'm saying. And start with doing so with DA3.

This is feedback whereby both sides can win.

Would it not be agreeable to both sides if they compromise on it in the middle of both looks?

Make 'beautiful' the new 'ordinary' elf look and make a few notable characters extremely beautiful. But keep them all beautiful and attractive as the basis for their look. 

[MorrigansLove]

DA2's art style is terrible, but DA1 wasn't much better!

If Bioware wants to create a world that actually feels alive then they should use the engine that Dice is using for BATTLEFIELD 3.