539 réponses à ce sujet

[vallore]

Yellow Words wrote...

fightright2 wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...


Now I just have to ask you, did you think that this was true in DAO? I remember plenty of elves that didn't look good or that I would call alluring.

No, I don't think every elf in DAO fit that description. I remember some awful looking ones.

Then why should we go back to DAO's elf design when the same lore applies to them? Not liking the design is fine but I think the argument falls short when blaming the DA2 elves for not being good looking when the same thing can be said for the elves in DAO.  

I guess that, for those of us that don't like DA2 elves, there are two reasons to return to the old look:


Because they  look better than the new ones.

Because the new ones look much worse than the worse of those from Origins.

[ScotGaymer]

I think the problem with the Elves in DA2 is more of a Chargen problem than the actual design/direction sucking.

I mean pretty much all the Elves who arent Merill and Fenris look like they have Downs Syndrome. Its really odd looking.

I mean I find it really hard to create different looking Hawke's. I have 4 characters currently, all male.
1=Gay mage. Good Pro-Mage, Force Mage Specialised. Focused on Primal School of Magic. Fell head over Hells for Anders.
2=Pansexual Mage. Bad Pro-Mage. Blood Mage Specialised. Focused on Spirit School of Magic. Tried to get into everyones pants, ended up doing Isabela.
3=Bisexual Warrior. Funny Pro-Templar. Templar Specialised. Focused on Weapon and Shield. Flirted with Isabela but ended up with Fenris.
4=Straight Rogue. Good/Funny mix Pro-Templar. Going to be Duelist Specialised. Focusing on Duel Weapons. Has an Elf fetish so is chasing Merill.

And quite unintentionally I found that both my mages looked quite similar; and I had to resculpt my Warrior in the Black Emporium to make him more unique. I had to spend quite a bit of time tweaking and comparing both my warrior and Rogue to my Mages to make them look different.

For some reason the DA2 chargen is as unwieldy as the Mass Effect Chargen; even with mods to change things up a bit.

I can only imagine how hard it must be to create a decent looking Elf.

[csfteeeer]

In Exile wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
It's the skin.  The characters in DA2 have perfect uniform skin, while the DAO characters had more variation and texture.

I think the lighting may have something to do with that.  But compare the portraits from the two games.  DA2's skin has no depth or texture to it.

I suspect that may have been done to improve graphical performance, rather than a specific art decision, but it's certainly a change, and it's the change I like least.

For example:

There's no way to give a DA2 character skin that detailed.

That doesn't make it less cartoony, though. 

Here's an example:

(Since I fail at making pictures show up, I just have a link):

img117.imageshack.us/img117/9928/snapshot20081201013104zu0.jpg

This is a random internet anime picture of an old man. It doesn't look very different (other than the fact it is a different medium) from the one you posted. 

That's not a fair example.

The details and texture(for lack of a better word) in the anime picture is very very basic, and that's because it was drawn.
With Drawings, one can never reach a level of realism that games could offer(unless they're cel shaded).
You can represent the depth of the cheeks, for example(unless you a series of lines in them, but that still doesn't make it looks realistic).
Drawings and Graphics are not the same thing and they never will.

But it really is the textures and the skin detail that, while maybe not making less cartoony, it can hide well.

[TEWR]

Aside from the wrinkles under the eyes (which Meredith also had) and the jawline structure, the DAO character doesn't have much detail from what I can see.

Though I'm not much of an artist and the angle may be throwing me off, so I might be missing some details besides the obvious.

But... couldn't Hawke be given a good level of detail akin to the DAO Wardens?

[csfteeeer]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Aside from the wrinkles under the eyes (which Meredith also had) and the jawline structure, the DAO character doesn't have much detail from what I can see.

Though I'm not much of an artist and the angle may be throwing me off, so I might be missing some details besides the obvious.

But... couldn't Hawke be given a good level of detail akin to the DAO Wardens?

Color palette and lighting also influence.

While the faces in DAO don't have too much detail, it still hides it better than DA2 does, i think, Because that is what matters, how well they hide it, nearly every Video game that are called "Realistic", are actually falsely realistic, but they hide it well.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

That doesn't make it less cartoony, though.

But it does make it more interesting.

All my DAO characters look alike.

[In Exile]

csfteeeer wrote...

That's not a fair example.

It's a fair example. We're talking about the art-style. You can have realistic art-styles in cartoons; that doesn't make the aesthetic less cartoony, as opposed to hyper realistic (e.g. Crysis). 

The details and texture(for lack of a better word) in the anime picture is very very basic, and that's because it was drawn.

That's not what makes something cartoony. Let me give you another example:

i2.listal.com/image/2372113/500full.jpg

With Drawings, one can never reach a level of realism that games could offer(unless they're cel shaded).
You can represent the depth of the cheeks, for example(unless you a series of lines in them, but that still doesn't make it looks realistic).
Drawings and Graphics are not the same thing and they never will.

It isn't level of realism. It's the art-style. 

But it really is the textures and the skin detail that, while maybe not making less cartoony, it can hide well.

I think that depends on the person. I just can't see the hiding, because I notice the overall aesthetic. The colour, the environments, the armour, etc. 

[RagingCyclone]

I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree in the skin detail area, both games are similar:
My Hawke:

My warden:


I don't see a whole lot of difference in the skin texture details.

[In Exile]

As an aside, man, I really like the TW1 art direction for the armour more.

[Addai]

Sylvianus wrote...

What bothered me early in the "graphic style" in Dragon Age 2, is the cartoon aspect of the chara-design. It's hard to give credit to the script, and to believe in a world  "dark and violent" when their characters seem to recycle Sims. I was so pissed off to see a story dark enough turned to this joke.

When you tell a specific story, the design must follow what it means and what it expresses concretely.
I'm not a fan of, " as the story is too dark, " I will add whimsical colors and make cartoons. No. NO. NOOOOOOOOOO !

The best way to represent its story is still to have some consistency between what is said and what is shown. The impact of what is said is fiercely reduced if the design reflects the opposite in my opinion.

Agreed.  Having thought about it a while, the new aesthetic is one of the most off-putting things about the game.  To me it isn't distinctive.  Rather, it puts DA into the same lump with WoW, Fable, and every JRPG ever made, i.e. with games I can't take seriously.  Origins walked that line, but had enough grittiness and beauty to make me forget at times that I was playing a game.  That's all I need to be able to imagine myself into the world.  DA2's more arty, stylized look is somewhere between bland and alienating.

[Addai]

Xewaka wrote...

Anarya wrote...
I've noticed. I need to stop rolling my eyes or I might get a sprain. An eye sprain.

And re:story-- DA2's story was really much darker than Origins', hands down. And more mature as well. There's a theme of failure despite your best efforts and intentions, of realizing the limits of your control over your fate and the world, and coming to terms with that. That's a very mature thing to realize and deal with, and really was my favorite aspect of the story. I can't think of another game off the top of my head that deals with that, whereas I can think of a million where I save the world from the looming evil fill-in-the-blank. Not that the story was perfect, but it had some great things going for it.

However, it is hard for a videogame to make the main protagonist fail despite his/her best efforts without making the player feel as if he/she (the player) failed as well. It's a very fine line to walk, and for some people they fell off said line.
I salute what they attempted to do with the story. It was a refreshing change of pace from the usual true and tried paths trodden a thousand times before. I personally liked the idea behind it, even if it sometimes failed to communicate properly due to the game's execution. However, I also understand that for some people, ineffectual character = ineffectual player, and thus the undercurring theme is lost in the frustration of being unable to derive any sort of result from their (the players') effort.

This is somewhat off-topic as it deals more with story, but one comment- the idea that players didn't like Hawke because she failed is not really accurate IMO.  The problem I have with Hawke is that she didn't take any meaningful action at all when she was a powerful figure who might have done so.  Not that she acted boldly and failed, or had unexpected consequences to her actions, but that mostly she was fiddling her thumbs while things were falling apart around her.  That doesn't make for a dark story or an interesting hero/ anti-hero, because it's apparent Hawke's hands were bound by plot constraint rather than by something that would have felt truly dramatic and gripping.  Hawke being bound to be illogical and ineffectual, rather than being a compelling character who nevertheless gets caught up in circumstance.

[Mangeduvet]

Great thread, hope the bioware team has someone looking into this issue and that we may see a massive improvement in detailing and textures when DA3 hits the shelves.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

As an aside, man, I really like the TW1 art direction for the armour more.

I'll grant that I didn't really like the Massive Armour in DAO, but I also rarely used it because I tend not to employ tanks, so Massive Armour simply wasn't valuable.

My preferred Warrior build in DAO was Archer, and they couldn't go above Heavy Armour without taking a big rate of fire penalty.

[wilteg]

Yeah there is no difference what so ever, if you are infact Stevie Wonder!
Look at Bethany is she a mannequin or just a sexdoll.

Modifié par wilteg, 04 septembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Hel]

In Exile wrote...

As an aside, man, I really like the TW1 art direction for the armour more.

In general I have to agree with you. But Dragon Age has some armours (especially in DA2) that look better than some of the things that were seen in TW1.

I especially like warrior Hawke's starting armour, it looks great... sadly it becomes underpowered so quickly that you have to swap it out for something less good looking. The Stonehammer armour set is also one of those great looking armours, it's just a pity that you can easily miss a piece of it and thus have to walk around in a mix-match of different armours.