539 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

Yrkoon wrote...
This one's a mixed bag for me.  Mainly because Flemeth is such an enigmatic character.  Is she supposed  to be a sexy milf with a near perfect body, and hair so thick and flowing that she  puts half of it up in horn-ponytails??  Because if so, then yes.    Her art style for DA2 fit her perfectly, and much better than it was for DA:O.

But the problem I have,  is that everywhere else in the series, she's portrayed as a fearsome old woman, wise, serious, and venerated.  Even her voice projects that  vibe.  And that fits with her old art style.

Flemeth was supposed to be very beautiful, wasn't she? Her appearance may be an idealized version of her younger self, since she's a witch and likes to mix it up. I think the "old lady in the forest" bit is an attempt to make herself look less powerful than she really is. It suits The Witch of the Wilds, but I'm not sure it suits Flemeth, if that makes sense.

[Monica21]

simfamSP wrote...
Ignoring everything, just replying to the picture.

I think it's a bit... well... it's just not 'good debate' if your posting it here in the DA2/Bioware forums. We all know it's Dragon age related and we've nearly all played DA:O.

A person who hasn't Played DA:O but has a good sense in fantasy gaming and has still heard of Dragon age wouldn't be able to tell the difference I think.

You can say the same about any cosplay though. I haven't played Mass Effect so the only giveaway I would have is whatever that logo is they wear. I certainly wouldn't be able to tell which character was which.

[TEWR]

Monica21 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
This one's a mixed bag for me.  Mainly because Flemeth is such an enigmatic character.  Is she supposed  to be a sexy milf with a near perfect body, and hair so thick and flowing that she  puts half of it up in horn-ponytails??  Because if so, then yes.    Her art style for DA2 fit her perfectly, and much better than it was for DA:O.

But the problem I have,  is that everywhere else in the series, she's portrayed as a fearsome old woman, wise, serious, and venerated.  Even her voice projects that  vibe.  And that fits with her old art style.

Flemeth was supposed to be very beautiful, wasn't she? Her appearance may be an idealized version of her younger self, since she's a witch and likes to mix it up. I think the "old lady in the forest" bit is an attempt to make herself look less powerful than she really is. It suits The Witch of the Wilds, but I'm not sure it suits Flemeth, if that makes sense.

Indeed. Morrigan says that she took many Chasind men to her bed, so in order to do that she would have to be beautiful. Not to mention that Morrigan also said she isn't human, so the normal rules of physical appearance don't apply to her.

[Icinix]

The only thing that worked with the new art style was the Qunari.

DA2 DID NOT look distinctive - it looked like any number of elements from Fable or Final Fantasy.

I can understand and accept a lot of decisions that were made for DA2 -

..but the art style, despite me attempting to like it, trying to encourage it to grow on me.....

I flat out do not like it.

[Yrkoon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
This one's a mixed bag for me. Mainly because Flemeth is such an enigmatic character. Is she supposed to be a sexy milf with a near perfect body, and hair so thick and flowing that she puts half of it up in horn-ponytails?? Because if so, then yes. Her art style for DA2 fit her perfectly, and much better than it was for DA:O.

But the problem I have, is that everywhere else in the series, she's portrayed as a fearsome old woman, wise, serious, and venerated. Even her voice projects that vibe. And that fits with her old art style.

Flemeth was supposed to be very beautiful, wasn't she? Her appearance may be an idealized version of her younger self, since she's a witch and likes to mix it up. I think the "old lady in the forest" bit is an attempt to make herself look less powerful than she really is. It suits The Witch of the Wilds, but I'm not sure it suits Flemeth, if that makes sense.

Indeed. Morrigan says that she took many Chasind men to her bed, so in order to do that she would have to be beautiful. Not to mention that Morrigan also said she isn't human, so the normal rules of physical appearance don't apply to her.

I get that she can shapeshift.   And like I said, I've got mixed feelings about her new looks.

But Her non-dragon form in DA2 doesn't look threatening at all.  so if they were trying to project that vibe, they failed..



PS:  and the lore also states that Flemeth's hair  flowed like a moonless night.  (ie.  Jet back.  Not... whiter than  Santa Claus's Beard)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 août 2011 - 01:30 .

[Atakuma]

I liked the concept art for elves in DA2, however they really dropped the ball when it came to translating that in-game. The proportions are all wonky with their ridiculously narrow shoulders, long necks and big noggins, as well as them being just too much shorter than humans.

[Merci357]

In my view using unique appearances for companions is one thing, and I'm fine with that.

Using a cartoonish style for it is another matter. I guess it's a simple try to copy the WoW formula: Use a cartoonish look, so a) people recognise the game with a single look, thus you can keep to use the engine like forever, because a cartoonish style is never that demanding. But, yes, it worked, people recognise DA2 - it's the AAA game with the dated engine, that looks hideous compared to most recent games.

That said, while DA2 had a few good looking companions and vistas, I _vastly_ prefer a more realistic approach, like done in DA:O.

Modifié par Merci357, 28 août 2011 - 01:27 .

[Monica21]

Atakuma wrote...

I liked the concept art for elves in DA2, however they really dropped the ball when it came to translating that in-game. The proportions are all wonky with their ridiculously narrow shoulders, long necks and big noggins, as well as them being just too much shorter than humans.

My very first thought on seeing a DA2 elf was literally, "How do they not topple over from their giant heads?"

[Yrkoon]

...and their noses go into their foreheads. For some reason, that just annoys me.

[TEWR]

Yrkoon wrote...

I get that she can shapeshift.   And like I said, I've got mixed feelings about her new looks.

But Her non-dragon form in DA2 doesn't look threatening at all.  so if they were trying to project that vibe, they failed..



PS:  and the lore also states that Flemeth's hair  flowed like a moonless night.  (ie.  Jet back.  Not... whiter than  Santa Claus's Beard)

I think it gives off both a sexy vibe as well as one of power. They say power is sexy. Well.... that's Flemeth

and where was she said to have hair that flowed like a moonless night? In one of the stories people tell of her?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

simfamSP wrote...

Ignoring everything, just replying to the picture.

I think it's a bit... well... it's just not 'good debate' if your posting it here in the DA2/Bioware forums. We all know it's Dragon age related and we've nearly all played DA:O.

A person who hasn't Played DA:O but has a good sense in fantasy gaming and has still heard of Dragon age wouldn't be able to tell the difference I think.

Perhaps.

Then again, if Flemeth walked down the street I can tell you more people would think she was cosplaying Rita Repulsa or Maleficent than a computer game character. And if you said you were cosplaying Morrigan, and I'd merely 'heard of' Dragon Age, I might wonder why you didn't look like this:



Maybe names that are more original and iconic would help with the whole art style thing. Flemeth was a good start, but then they gave her someone else's iconic image. Heck, Maleficent can even turn into a dragon.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 28 août 2011 - 02:04 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Chris Priestly wrote...

And I disagree. While the art for DAO was good, it was not distinctive. DA II had a distinctive style.

To illustrate, think of cosplay. For DAO pretty much the only cosplay we had was Morrigan. The reason being, she was pretty much the only defineable character. The man, unless you happen to look like Alistair or whomever, were just guys in suits of armor. They could have been DAO, they could have been LotR. Hard to say. Now we get Isabelas and Aveines and Flemeths, but we also get Hawkes, Varrics, Fenrises... Fenri... a bunch of Fenris.

YOU may not like it as much, and that always comes down to "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", but the art was changed to make it destinct from other fantasy games, and it accomplished that very well.

Giving companions distinct  clothing has absolutely nothing to do with art style change.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Giving companions distinct  clothing has absolutely nothing to do with art style change.

Indeed, and even if we want to talk about clothing, the glaring lack of detail makes this more distinctly...not memorable to me at best.

[Monica21]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Giving companions distinct  clothing has absolutely nothing to do with art style change.

Very true. I can't help but think he just didn't explain very well, but it sounds like they changed the darkspawn design so people could just get some black hats and white makeup and be all, "Look! I'm a Hurlock!" at conventions. Which is a really terrible reason for changing something.

[csfteeeer]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Giving companions distinct  clothing has absolutely nothing to do with art style change.

Exactly.

I Don't Understand why did he even brought that up.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

@Shadow of Light Dragon: I pretty much approve of the new emissary look, but I want them to drop the elf ears and the S&M gear on the face.

Dropping the S&M gear would make them more bearable, but the new ones have such a weird...face >.< I don't mind the ears, since I have no problems with the idea of sharlock emissaries, just so long as they don't all look like that. DA:O had both hurlock and genlock casters, and at this point I'm presuming Bioware decided they'd throw elves in as darkspawn casters since they weren't giving us Shrieks.

I just wish all the darkspawn had those fangs instead of flat pearly white teeth.

And I kinda miss that cool blade headpiece the hurlock emmy's had too.

[Yrkoon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


and where was she said to have hair that flowed like a moonless night? In one of the stories people tell of her?

Lelianna says it.

  And Morrigan *remembers* when Flemeth's hair was black, like hers.

[Monica21]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
Dropping the S&M gear would make them more bearable, but the new ones have such a weird...face >.< I don't mind the ears, since I have no problems with the idea of sharlock emissaries, just so long as they don't all look like that. DA:O had both hurlock and genlock casters, and at this point I'm presuming Bioware decided they'd throw elves in as darkspawn casters since they weren't giving us Shrieks.

I just wish all the darkspawn had those fangs instead of flat pearly white teeth.

And I kinda miss that cool blade headpiece the hurlock emmy's had too.

The Hurlock Emissaries were physically intimidating even before they started casting. They at least appeared taller and broader than other other Hurlocks, and now they're just skinny little dudes with freaky things on their faces. Origins Emissaries looked like they were deliberately trying to frighten you just with their appearance.

[KnightofPhoenix]

An example of the lack of detail.

Viscount Dumar vs King Foltest.

And in case someone wants to say that Dumar is the Viscount of a city-state and not a king, compare him to Medici in Assassin's Creed II.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 août 2011 - 02:30 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Shrieks were probably the most distinctive and terrifying of ALL the darkspawn in DA:O IMO. If the huge art style problem with DA:O was that its character/monster concepts were too generic, why drop the Shriek?

[Tommy6860]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

@Shadow of Light Dragon: I pretty much approve of the new emissary look, but I want them to drop the elf ears and the S&M gear on the face.

Dropping the S&M gear would make them more bearable, but the new ones have such a weird...face >.< I don't mind the ears, since I have no problems with the idea of sharlock emissaries, just so long as they don't all look like that. DA:O had both hurlock and genlock casters, and at this point I'm presuming Bioware decided they'd throw elves in as darkspawn casters since they weren't giving us Shrieks.

I just wish all the darkspawn had those fangs instead of flat pearly white teeth.

And I kinda miss that cool blade headpiece the hurlock emmy's had too.

I think the worst turn for a change were the new Genlocks in Legacy, talk about S&M derp characters:




I got killed the first time I saw them from laughing so hard :/

Modifié par Tommy6860, 28 août 2011 - 02:40 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

An example of the lack of detail.

(I still love the detail in TW2.)

I think Chris is more concerned with characters and monsters that are visually recognisable and iconic as 'Bioware: Dragon Age' where art style is concerned, not the fine stitching detail of the art itself. Characters can easily be iconic without the art being amazing. They can also be incredibly generic-looking even with amazing cosmetic detail.

He's talking about the monsters/NPCs standing out in the genre. DA2 managed it with some of the NPCs, but I disagree with him strongly that DA:O was disadvantaged as a game in any way due to the characters not having set wardrobes. It might have made some characters prettier or whatever, but it removed functionality and the power of customisation from the player, which isn't usually a good thing.

[Tommy6860]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

An example of the lack of detail.

Viscount Dumar vs King Foltest.

And in case someone wants to say that Dumar is the Viscount of a city-state and not a king, compare him to Medici in Assassin's Creed II.

While that is striking, I keep in mind that DA2 is a console port to PC, while TW2 was developed specifically for PC.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
I think Chris is more concerned with characters and monsters that are visually recognisable and iconic as 'Bioware: Dragon Age' where art style is concerned, not the fine stitching detail of the art itself. Characters can easily be iconic without the art being amazing. They can also be incredibly generic-looking even with amazing cosmetic detail.

That's something I personally disagree with. Obviously rich detail is not the only factor, but when so little effort is put into it, the only thing iconic to me is how bland it is. Being visually recognizable, imo, should not be set as an instrinsic goal, because one can be recognizably bad. It means little on its own.

One should aspire for it to be recognizably *good*, and effort on details helps in that regard, imo. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 août 2011 - 02:47 .