539 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Tommy6860 wrote...

[I think the worst turn for a change were the new Genlocks in Legacy, talk about S&M derp characters:




I got killed the first time I saw them from laughing so hard :/

I personally approve of the new Genlocks. I just want them to drop the idiot helmets and get some half-assed armor. At least the Cucumber Gremlin Genlocks in Origins had some half-assed armor.

Also, I wonder if they should be given a sorry attempt of a beard.....

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
Shrieks were probably the most distinctive and terrifying of ALL the darkspawn in DA:O IMO. If the huge art style problem with DA:O was that its character/monster concepts were too generic, why drop the Shriek?

The shrieks were definitely terrifying in Origins, and they have now been redesigned to be.... stupid. Granted, Origins' shrieks needed some tweaks themselves.



The torso is the same - or at least similar - as the new elves of DAII (elven males that is). But their feet needed tweaking to be more elf-y, and their ears should've been dropped down a bit.

Regarding the Emissaries we saw in game, it's my belief those were Hurlock Emissaries since Bioware made it clear we would only see Hurlocks and Ogres in DAII since DAII wasn't focused on the Darkspawn.

[Masako52]

I'm going to be a maybe dissenting voice on these boards and say that the DA2 art style was AWESOME. Mainly, the qunari and the elves look stunning. Seriously, I hope Bioware ignores the critics and never changes them. They are fantastic, unique, and gorgeous.

The darkspawn change is the only one I don't get. The new darkspawn aren't bad, though, it's just... I don't understand WHY the genlocks/hurlocks were changed, instead of making "new" kinds of darkspawn. I understand why the elves and the qunari were given more distinction, but the darkspawn just confuses me is all. The new genlocks I think are cool looking, I just wouldn't have called them genlocks.

Also, cheers for sexy Flemeth!

[Monica21]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I know, that's what I did the first time I mentionned it.

Trading centers are usually cosmopolitan, relatively speaking. As in attract foreign merchandise and merchants.  
Yes, lowtown is very blandly utilitarian. But hightown is not, and Kirkwall nobles dress like Ferelden ones. Certainly not utilitarian looking. So why should Dumar be the only one?

Their placement is irrelevent to my point. You can place 10 hubert clones however you want, it will not look like a market place.

Ever been to a strip mall? Technically a market place.

If they didn't, they were idiots, but I do not see a highly biased codex as definitive evidence of the actual proceedure.  And yes, I know de facto the Templars are running the city. De jure they are not.

Are you calling into question the only evidence we have of Dumar's election because you don't like the politics of it?

It's irrelevent to my point, Dumar is still a noble, regardless of who put him in power.

Which is irrelevant altogether because it's subjective. You don't like his attire. Fine. End of story.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Monica21 wrote...

Trading centers are usually cosmopolitan, relatively speaking. As in attract foreign merchandise and merchants.  
Yes, lowtown is very blandly utilitarian. But hightown is not, and Kirkwall nobles dress like Ferelden ones. Certainly not utilitarian looking. So why should Dumar be the only one?

As in, no Hightown is not as blandly utilitarian / not very blandly utilitarian as lowtown, and yes nobles in the game dress like Ferelden ones and that's not utilitarian.

Ever been to a strip mall? Technically a market place.

Because Hubert's stall resembles that how? And how does that fit in a medieval setting?

Are you calling into question the only evidence we have of Dumar's election because you don't like the politics of it?

No, I am calling it into question because the author is quite clearly biased (loyal to the previous Viscount) and that this evidence is not enough for me to know for certain the formalities surroundingg Dumar getting the office. The fact that the game only mentions the event in a questionable codex, is naturally a flaw however.

Which is irrelevant altogether because it's subjective. You don't like his attire. Fine. End of story.

Hence, the "to me" next to bland. I never tried to say that Dumar is objectively bad looking.
What I am saying however that is objective, is a consistent lack of detail. His outfit being one example.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 août 2011 - 05:49 .

[TEWR]

Masako52 wrote...

I'm going to be a maybe dissenting voice on these boards and say that the DA2 art style was AWESOME. Mainly, the qunari and the elves look stunning. Seriously, I hope Bioware ignores the critics and never changes them. They are fantastic, unique, and gorgeous.

The darkspawn change is the only one I don't get. The new darkspawn aren't bad, though, it's just... I don't understand WHY the genlocks/hurlocks were changed, instead of making "new" kinds of darkspawn. I understand why the elves and the qunari were given more distinction, but the darkspawn just confuses me is all. The new genlocks I think are cool looking, I just wouldn't have called them genlocks.

Also, cheers for sexy Flemeth!

I agree that Flemeth, the Qunari, and Elves are awesome.

I abhor most of the Darkspawn redesigns (Genlocks and Hurlock Alphas being the only ones I think are perfect in general design). Genlocks were redesigned to look more like they came from Dwarves. A cucumber-skinned Gremlin Genlock didn't look like it actually came from a Dwarven broodmother.

Though Darkspawn should wear more half-assed armor that looks like it might function well. Instead, they're close to being naked.

[TEWR]

I have to say that Alice:Madness returns made a city that looked great. The men, a few women, Dr. Bumby, and Alice looked great while the rest of the denizens (most women and a lot of the children at least) didn't. But that was something that was a part of the original style of American Mcgee's Alice.

Anyway, the market stalls looked like market stalls. You even saw a butcher cutting meat.



The real world stuff starts around 2:06. Jump to around 4:40 to see the actual city

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 août 2011 - 05:55 .

[Monica21]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
As in, no Hightown is not as blandly utilitarian / not very blandly utilitarian as lowtown, and yes nobles in the game dress like Ferelden ones and that's not utilitarian.

And I said that it is exactly as bland and utlitarian as Lowtown. It's just a different color. And commoners dress like Ferelden commoners. Apparently rich people are all about Ferelden imports, or Ferelden imports a lot from Kirkwall. And they're shirts. They work just the same as commoner shirts, so they're equally utilitarian, just in a different color. (Again.)

Because Hubert's stall resembles that how? And how does that fit in a medieval setting?

Hubert's stall is a medieval storefront. Arranging stalls in a row around a marketplace instead of huddled in a group of tents is very similar to a modern strip mall. 

No, I am calling it into question because the author is quite clearly biased (loyal to the previous Viscount) and that this evidence is not enough for me to know for certain the formalities surroundingg Dumar getting the office. The fact that the game only mentions the event in a questionable codex, is naturally a flaw however.

Why is it questionable? The previous Viscount was beheaded by Meredith because he tried to throw the Templars out of Kirkwall. Why wouldn't the Chantry take control after an incident like that? It's a perfectly feasible scenario whether you approve or don't.

[Sabariel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

[I think the worst turn for a change were the new Genlocks in Legacy, talk about S&M derp characters:




I got killed the first time I saw them from laughing so hard :/

I personally approve of the new Genlocks. I just want them to drop the idiot helmets and get some half-assed armor. At least the Cucumber Gremlin Genlocks in Origins had some half-assed armor.

Also, I wonder if they should be given a sorry attempt of a beard.....

The one that got me laughing was the Hurlock Alpha. Goofiest looking thing I've ever seen, especially the helmet that is the exact same shape as my lipstick. I much prefer the horny Hurlock Alphas

Modifié par Sabariel, 28 août 2011 - 06:09 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Monica21 wrote...
And I said that it is exactly as bland and utlitarian as Lowtown. It's just a different color. And commoners dress like Ferelden commoners. Apparently rich people are all about Ferelden imports, or Ferelden imports a lot from Kirkwall. And they're shirts. They work just the same as commoner shirts, so they're equally utilitarian, just in a different color. (Again.)

And I disagree, there is more decoration in Hightown. Does it make it look good? No, it's atrocious, devoid of life and bland.
Not as atrocious as lowtown, imo.

Hubert's stall is a medieval storefront. Arranging stalls in a row around a marketplace instead of huddled in a group of tents is very similar to a modern strip mall.

...except I am not talking about how they are arranged. I am talking about a stall that has one coffer only, with the market place being devoid of life other than the merchants who each have one coffer in an otherwise empty stall. Arrange them however you want, it would still not look like a market place.

Why is it questionable? The previous Viscount was beheaded by Meredith because he tried to throw the Templars out of Kirkwall. Why wouldn't the Chantry take control after an incident like that? It's a perfectly feasible scenario whether you approve or don't.

Sigh, again de facto and de jure. I know that de facto the Chantry took power. What I am questioning is how they did it. Did they come in and impose a viscount against everyone's will without any concern for subtelty (which would make them stupid), like the previous Viscount loyalist says, or whether they made a fake election, to put a puppet.

It's questionable because obviously a loyalist of the previous Viscount who did not approve of Templars, is going to paint the situation as the Chantry unilaterally imposing a Viscount. I am not questioning the feasibility of the scenario, I am questioning the source. And I am certainly not questioning the de facto power of the Templars. And I am questioning how this is all relevent to the discussion at hand.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 août 2011 - 06:15 .

[Monica21]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
...except I am not talking about how they are arranged. I am talking about a stall that has one coffer only, with the market place being devoid of life other than the merchants who each have one coffer in an otherwise empty stall. Arrange them however you want, it would still not look like a market place.

Then maybe you should play a game with a marketplace you approve of.

Sigh, again de facto and de jure. I know that de facto the Chantry took power. What I am questioning is how they did it. Did they come in and impose a viscount against everyone's will without any concern for subtelty (which would make them stupid), like the previous Viscount loyalist says, or whether they made a fake election, to put a puppet.

It's questionable because obviously a loyalist of the previous Viscount who did not approve of Templars, is going to paint the situation as the Chantry unilaterally imposing a Viscount. I am not questioning the feasibility of the scenario, I am questioning the source. And I am certainly not questioning the de facto power of the Templars. And I am questioning how this is all relevent to the discussion at hand.

I understand the difference between de facto and de jure. I'm saying that knowing how it happened doesn't make a difference. The Chantry elected Guy Who Dresses Badly.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Monica21 wrote...
Then maybe you should play a game with a marketplace you approve of.

Oh, I most certainly am.

I understand the difference between de facto and de jure. I'm saying that knowing how it happened doesn't make a difference. The Chantry elected Guy Who Dresses Badly.

Exactly, it doesn't make a difference.
Since I do not know his personality, I am more inclined to see him dressing badly as a result of the art direction that made almost everyone dress badly and almost everything look bland.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 août 2011 - 06:42 .

[Yrkoon]

RagingCyclone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...
KoP, where normally I would agree the bland black is less, in this case I think it's the opposite. Medici's may be more colorful, it's also on a model that is very generic and plain. While Dumar's may be plain black/grays the straps and shoulder pouldrons give more detail in the model. It's a matter of taste here, but I have to say Dumar is the better of the two stylistically. 

Like I said, not sure how to describe my issue with this.

Yes, Dumar's model may be more detailed, but it looks bland to me. Perhaps lacking in color and decorations.
Nobles in Kirkwall had more colorful clothes, and yet Dumar looks like a bandit to me. Whereas if I look at Medici, I can have an idea of what he is.

See, I took him as he appeared to be...a businessman and elected official, not a noble or royalty. 

Same, but that might have everything to do with  how the game's art presents him (despite the fact that he's wearing a crown lol).

He is a Noble, however.  He has his own Seneshal

[Yrkoon]

Morroian wrote...
 DA2 colours being more vivid.

More vivid?

Disneyland is vivid.  A nice photo of a family vacation  on  a sunny tropical beach  is vivid.

Isn't DA2 supposed to represent a dark fantasy world setting?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 août 2011 - 06:55 .

[In Exile]

Yrkoon wrote...
Isn't DA2 supposed to represent a dark fantasy world setting?

So was DA:O, but it still it was clean and spotless. Bioware's art direction is not good at this. 

[DragonRageGT]

Sorry Chris, I understand you have to defend it and all but DA2 is pretty lame compared to Origins,  including the art style. I'm still waiting for someone to answer me what would have happened to ME2 if they did the same thing to alln the races there... oh wait.. someone has answered that... might have killed the franchise...

Now, if this is going the way of the audience, this is the audience you'll get:

http://glo.bo/qPSxp6

[Yrkoon]

In Exile wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
Isn't DA2 supposed to represent a dark fantasy world setting?

So was DA:O, but it still it was clean and spotless. Bioware's art direction is not good at this. 

I agree, But I'd Still give DA:O points for at least the "brown" theme.  Especially in "ruined" areas like the Deep roads. or the circle tower.  When you were in an old "dead" place, it looked that way.  it wasn't  Orange, like in DA2.  It didn't have bright green vegetation growing around it, like in DA2.


 On a semi-related topic, People criticize Awakening for all sorts of reasons, but that little 20 hour expansion did  environment themes   brilliantly; far better than all the other DA titles.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 août 2011 - 07:35 .

[Tommy6860]

Filament wrote...

TW2's palette is more vivid than both DAs. Just because it's colorful doesn't make it Katamari Damacy or Wind Waker light. (not that either of those games aren't awesome in their own way)

Maybe so, but the settings, especially in the DRs, doesn't have to look like a Disney production.

[Tommy6860]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


I personally approve of the new Genlocks. I just want them to drop the idiot helmets and get some half-assed armor. At least the Cucumber Gremlin Genlocks in Origins had some half-assed armor.

I disagreee. At least the Genlocks in Origins looked like they were once humanoid in some fashion and moved on two feet. Not only that, they used weapons, like bows, dagger and swords and even were Rogues.These creatures look like a hybrid of Genlocks from Origins and Donkeykong, that is just silly looking. Now we have Donkeyspawns. Seriously, why did they have them move on all fours like a mutated ape?

[Yrkoon]

I think the DA2 Genlocks are the product of the same mindset that produced the combat animations, Orsino's behavior, Merideth's Soul Calibur sword,  Isabela's outfit, and the "but'un Awesome" marketing line:

The Devs said:  Screw sublety. Lets go for lolawesome! the kids'll love it!

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 août 2011 - 07:51 .

[RosaAquafire]

DA2's art style is objectively better, the end.

[Wyndham711]

I think if the distinctiveness argument is supposed to hold water, then this is a case of sacrificing everything else for the sake of a very specific, narrow gain. Yes, now your characters are generally more cosplayable, and perhaps the art in general is more separable, I'm not sure.

However, in the process you lost many more important things. For instance the more natural looking faces, strong atmosphere, detailing (no, sparsity isn't a solid recipe for believable settings, and telling me that it's a good thing since it plays up the character models if the settings are barren... seems you are not only trying to cheat me, but yourself as well), internal consistency through retcons, etc. The overall result/success can't be valued by staring at a singular, extremely specific statistic, in this case distinctiveness.

An example: incredibly few series are more visually distinctive than South Park, yet you'd me mad to argue that series looks beautiful.

Modifié par Wyndham711, 28 août 2011 - 07:50 .

[Yrkoon]

Filament wrote...
and the I-don't-even-know-what-happened-to-elves in DAO without a problem?

Say what?

Have you actually looked at DA:O shrieks closely?

Pointed ears.  Check
Skinny bodies.  Check

What other elven features do you  suppose they should have?

I would need to hear more than "it has bright colors" to even begin to consider this supposed similarity to a Disney production... because I'm not seeing it at all.

Not sure why you'd dismiss away something so important as an environment color scheme here.  If you're looking for Mickey Mouse, sure, you won't see him in DA2's Deep  Roads.  But you will see bright orange floors and walls.  you will see  gigantic flourescent Blue crystals that  light-flood the rest of the room.  And these things change the mood.  They change it from "dead and foreboding", to  "ooh!  Shiney... magic!!" 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 août 2011 - 08:06 .