3405 réponses à ce sujet

[PrinceLionheart]

Kronner wrote...

After watching some Vanguard footage, to me, it looks like a properly built Vanguard is going to be pretty much invincible.

Yep, Charge got some massive buffs. There's even a passive that'll give you a 1/4 chance of completely negating the cooldown.

[Stabby McGoodstab]

Lift Grenade

Rank 1: 450 Damage, 5m Radius, 4 second duration
Rank 2: Grenade Capacity +1
Rank 3: +20% Damage
Rank 4: [+30% Damage] or [+30% Radius]
Rank 5: [Grenade Capacity +2] or [Duration +50%]
Rank 6: [Damage and Radius +30%] or [Ends with a Slam and 3 second stun]

Life Grenade does more damage and has a larger radius than the Cluster Grenade. ಠ_ಠ

Modifié par Stabby McGoodstab, 11 février 2012 - 10:03 .

[ralx22]

Does anyone who has played the demo know if the grenades are replenished by killing enemies?

[Someone With Mass]

ralx22 wrote...

Does anyone who has played the demo know if the grenades are replenished by killing enemies?

No, you can only pick them up at specific points in the level. Or maybe there are some weapon boxes that replenishes them.

[Arppis]

I totaly forgot to use Nova in the demo, drats!

[Someone With Mass]

Arppis wrote...

I totaly forgot to use Nova in the demo, drats!

Made the Cerberus troopers a non-existent threat. 

[Arppis]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I totaly forgot to use Nova in the demo, drats!

Made the Cerberus troopers a non-existent threat. 

Nice... Should have tried it then.

[Aurellia]

Adhin wrote...

Just to throw this out there but the formula for how cooldowns work was already given, I think in another thread though but maybe this one. It's 'very' simple and could easily explain why 25% reduction isn't seeming like much. So here it is.

Base CD / (1+CD bonus)

If your loaded with 4 weapons that's putting you well over your weight limit your going to be well under that 1 mark. +25% may not even bring you back to a 1. And the scale for dividing by < 1 vs higher then is... rather dramatic.

If I plug in 25% I should get

1/1.25 = 80%.  For a cooldown of 20 this should go to 16.  What I observe is it going to 18.

I think that the real formula needs another factor of 

CD = (amount_carried/carryiing_capacity)*BaseCD/(1+CD_bonus)

But since the numbers don't seem to add up for the level 2 power what I think is going on is the following

CD = BaseCD*/(1+CD_Bonus) + EncumberanceModifier(amount_carried,carrying_capacity)

So as the encumberance delay gets bigger the impact of the CD_bonus is reduced accordingly.

If this is the case then there will be a strong benefit to reducing weight/increasing carrying capacity with weight reducting having the largest effect on cooldown times.

[No Snakes Alive]

Man sticky grenades sound incredibly underwhelming, as I more or less anticipated. Looks like it's going to come down to Sentinel and Engineer for me.

[Someone With Mass]

Sticky Grenades also sounds redundant if you have Proximity Mines (AKA Garrus) with you.

[No Snakes Alive]

Stabby McGoodstab wrote...

Lift Grenade

Rank 1: 450 Damage, 5m Radius, 4 second duration
Rank 2: Grenade Capacity +1
Rank 3: +20% Damage
Rank 4: [+30% Damage] or [+30% Radius]
Rank 5: [Grenade Capacity +2] or [Duration +50%]
Rank 6: [Damage and Radius +30%] or [Ends with a Slam and 3 second stun]

Life Grenade does more damage and has a larger radius than the Cluster Grenade. ಠ_ಠ

Omfg this power sounds so m****g win. Ends with a slam and stun FTW.

[Adhin]

Well I'm just going off what the dev's specifically said. And that formula its self mentioned was in direct relation to weight capacity. So if anything the bonus from the skill its self may artificially lower the base CD prior to the other bonus (from weight and armor/mods) take effect.

Like I said - dev pointed out that formula, think he was combat lead designer. So either hes wrong, your confused, or that was only in relation to weapon weight and we're not sure how skill related cooldown bonuses factor in.

[Aurellia]

Adhin wrote...

Well I'm just going off what the dev's specifically said. And that formula its self mentioned was in direct relation to weight capacity. So if anything the bonus from the skill its self may artificially lower the base CD prior to the other bonus (from weight and armor/mods) take effect.

Like I said - dev pointed out that formula, think he was combat lead designer. So either hes wrong, your confused, or that was only in relation to weapon weight and we're not sure how skill related cooldown bonuses factor in.

Well go into the demo as a vanguard in the Salarian home-world portion, look at the cooldown for charge it should show something like 22 (I forget the exact number).  Now buy level 2 charge which gives you 25% cooldown reduction.  This number should go to 17 or 18 depending on rounding (22*.8 = 17.6).  Instead it goes to 20.  My complaint is that the cooldown you get is about half of what the math says it should be.

So you can site authority all you want but there appears to be either a bug or an incomplete description of the formula.  At minimum I consider this a documentation/user interface bug.  If I get an upgrade that reduces cooldown by 25% it should actually make a 20 second power take 16 seconds, not 18.

The reason I am harping on this is I hope they can fix this in a day one patch or something since this is kind of a bad bug.  I discovered this bug in trying various ways overcoming the game overloading the adept and vanguard with weapons they don't need and giving them 20ish second cool downs for things like warp and charge.  At minamum they should add text saying that the 25% modifies the cooldown before any weight modifiers are applied.

Modifié par Aurellia, 11 février 2012 - 10:50 .

[DayusMakhina]

Aurellia wrote...

So you can site authority all you want but there appears to be either a bug or an incomplete description of the formula.  At minimum I consider this a documentation/user interface bug.  If I get an upgrade that reduces cooldown by 25% it should actually make a 20 second power take 16 seconds, not 18.

The reason I am harping on this is I hope they can fix this in a day one patch or something since this is kind of a bad bug.  I discovered this bug in trying various ways overcoming the game overloading the adept and vanguard with weapons they don't need and giving them 20ish second cool downs for things like warp and charge.  At minamum they should add text saying that the 25% modifies the cooldown before any weight modifiers are applied.

The CD = Base CD / (1 + Bonus CD) is applying ONLY to the weight system, without knowing what weight bonus you currently have (which cannot be seen in the demo) you have no way of knowing exactly what your cooldown should be and thus cannot work out whether the cooldowns are correct or not to know whether there is a bug. You simply don't have enough information.

Likelihood is is it's not a bug.

Edit: Shall explain that formula in numbers for you: 

We'll use Pull (3 second base cooldown) and a weight bonus of %140.

CD = 3 / (1+1.4) = 1.25

That was the example given by the dev if it helps to understand it better.

Modifié par DayusMakhina, 11 février 2012 - 11:28 .

[Aurellia]

DayusMakhina wrote...


The CD = Base CD / (1 + Bonus CD) is applying ONLY to the weight system, without knowing what weight bonus you currently have (which cannot be seen in the demo) you have no way of knowing exactly what your cooldown should be and thus cannot work out whether the cooldowns are correct or not to know whether there is a bug. You simply don't have enough information.

Likelihood is is it's not a bug.

Edit: Shall explain that formula in numbers for you: 

We'll use Pull (3 second base cooldown) and a weight bonus of %140.

CD = 3 / (1+1.4) = 1.25

That was the example given by the dev if it helps to understand it better.

That's all fine and good.  Now how would you expect a level 2 upgrade of pull to modify this?

Since it reduces cooldown by 25% it seems like it should this take it to, using your example, 1 = (3/(1+1.4))/1.25

What I observed was that under high weight  situations the net effect was to have a 25% modifier affect my delay by ~10% rather than anything close to 25%.

You are right that we don't have all the information but the user interface doesn't make this clear.  It says your cooldown time is reduced by 25% and then shows a change from 20 to 18 seconds.  This is either a usability bug or a real bug in the math.  Either way it should be fixed, IMHO.

Modifié par Aurellia, 11 février 2012 - 11:44 .

[BatmanPWNS]

I played the adept and totally forgot to use the cluster grenade. Dangit.

[DayusMakhina]

Aurellia wrote...

DayusMakhina wrote...


The CD = Base CD / (1 + Bonus CD) is applying ONLY to the weight system, without knowing what weight bonus you currently have (which cannot be seen in the demo) you have no way of knowing exactly what your cooldown should be and thus cannot work out whether the cooldowns are correct or not to know whether there is a bug. You simply don't have enough information.

Likelihood is is it's not a bug.

Edit: Shall explain that formula in numbers for you: 

We'll use Pull (3 second base cooldown) and a weight bonus of %140.

CD = 3 / (1+1.4) = 1.25

That was the example given by the dev if it helps to understand it better.

That's all fine and good.  Now how would you expect a level 2 upgrade of pull to modify this?

Since it reduces cooldown by 25% it seems like it should this take it to, using your example, 1 = (3/(1+1.4))/1.25

What I observed was that under high weight  situations the net effect was to have a 25% modifier affect my delay by ~10% rather than anything close to 25%.

You are right that we don't have all the information but the user interface doesn't make this clear.  It says your cooldown time is reduced by 25% and then shows a change from 20 to 18 seconds.  This is either a usability bug or a real bug in the math.  Either way it should be fixed, IMHO.

I would expect a level 2 upgrade of pull to modify it like this:

CD = (3*0.75) / (1 + 1.4) = 0.93

It seems somewhat logical to me that the cooldown bonus would apply only to the base cooldown, rather than the bonus considering the bonus is relevant to weight only.

You are right though that it should be clear exactly how it's worked out. 

Modifié par DayusMakhina, 11 février 2012 - 11:53 .

[JeffZero]

Well, this isn't exactly a contribution but I just sampled ME3's Vanguard rendition.

In love tbh.

[goofyomnivore]

I hope my Engineer will be able to nab Reave off of Kaidan. I might have a new favorite class then.

[SteamPunkJin]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I played the adept and totally forgot to use the cluster grenade. Dangit.

Go back and give them a try, they're really fun!

I'm so happy to see Adept is back, it felt so toned down in ME2. During the attack on earth when I could actually use my powers I was just tossing out Singularities and detonating them left and right - hardly needed a gun at all.

[JeffZero]

SteamPunkJin wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I played the adept and totally forgot to use the cluster grenade. Dangit.

Go back and give them a try, they're really fun!

I'm so happy to see Adept is back, it felt so toned down in ME2. During the attack on earth when I could actually use my powers I was just tossing out Singularities and detonating them left and right - hardly needed a gun at all.

Yeah, hell, I was surprised how often I found myself spamming Pull on Sur'Kesh -- as a Vanguard. It's gooood to be back.

[Sailears]

DayusMakhina wrote...

 Lifting Shockwave = Quality.

The animation has completely changed and it's now more of a push rather than an uppercut, equally in keeping with that the 'ripples' no longer come from the ground, they are in mid-air making it appear far more of wave rather than a series of explosions it was in ME2.

With all of the damage and force options for Shockwave it ends up doing 310 damage with a Force of 900N (knocks enemies back a few meters). If you forego the 50% extra damage for detonations (ie sending a shockwave into a singularity) the range is 15 meters, which it approximately takes 4 seconds to reach so it's certainly not as pain staking slow as it used to be. As for the lifting part... it holds enemies up in the air for around 3 seconds leaving them powerless to do anything, plus obviously when they collide with the ground afterwards it does more damage totalling up to around about 1/3 of the default enemies total health (playing on Insanity). That certainly doesn't seem anything to scoff at when it can potentially harm a fair few enemies considering the 15 meter range, although it's radius is only 2 meters.

I'm thinking Shockwave will be a staple of my Vanguard build yet again, and this time because it's actually useful rather than because I think it's cool.

Thank you so much for sharing that! :happy:

The shock fronts are in mid air and the animation a push? Fantastic, that's exactly how I was hoping shockwave would be changed to look like.

And it lifts enemies? Oh my god, I think I'm going to do a complete 180 on shockwave in ME3. Seems like it might be second only to pull.

[CanonShepard]

I tried the Adept. This may be blasphemy but I found the bionade more useful then Nova when I played as a Vanguard.

[PrinceLionheart]

Arppis wrote...

I totaly forgot to use Nova in the demo, drats!

Nova is a f***ing beast. As a whole, Vanguard is finally a class that has two playstyles. You can play charge/CQC heavy just like in ME2, or you can stick to cover since Pull is still great and Shockwave looks like it's finally useful.

[goofyomnivore]

I wonder if you can get away with using heavy melee(it reduces charge cd too doesn't it after a kill) as a pseudo shotgun and just run around with an AR to reduce weight restrictions.

You could then have a real dynamic Vanguard that could swap from Pullguard to a more classic CQC approach on a whim.