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[DayusMakhina]

There's something more interesting in that post too... the fact he stated Charge's cooldown is 10 seconds. Can work out the basic cooldown of every power from that, something that I am in the process of doing right now.

[Elecbender]

DayusMakhina wrote...

There's something more interesting in that post too... the fact he stated Charge's cooldown is 10 seconds. Can work out the basic cooldown of every power from that, something that I am in the process of doing right now.

So.....the demo's loadout is basically a -100% cooldown penalty since Charge in the demo had a 20 second cooldown?

[MasterEcabob]

AVPen wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Krogan powers in MP.

Huh.... so those assorted passive classes (along with the Rage power) that I found in the leaked script were indeed for the MP and were not NPC squadmate passives for the Single Player.

Yeah, that's what I figured when you pointed them out in the spoiler forum.  To be fair, with the Asari one being "Asari Justicar" it was an easy mistake to make. 

[DayusMakhina]

Elecbender wrote...

DayusMakhina wrote...

There's something more interesting in that post too... the fact he stated Charge's cooldown is 10 seconds. Can work out the basic cooldown of every power from that, something that I am in the process of doing right now.

So.....the demo's loadout is basically a -100% cooldown penalty since Charge in the demo had a 20 second cooldown?

For the Vanguard yes, but that may not be the case for all classes due to the fact different classes can supposedly take more/less weight than others. That said, at the start every class is getting a +200% cooldown bonus with just the Predator equipped, thus i'm presuming that that is the limit on the bonus scale considering we've been told different classes can equip more weapons than others without penalty.

Anyway yes, thanks to Manveer Heir telling us Charge is a 10 second cooldown and with the already known weight cooldown equation (cooldown = base cooldown / (1 + bonus)) we should now be able to work out the default cooldown for all of the Vanguards powers and subsequently every other classes through association.

Charge = 3.33 = 10 (1 + 2) - The 2 is the 200% cooldown bonus.

Applying that to everything else for Vanguard leaves this:

Pull = 1.33 x 3 =4 (I’m hoping I don’t need to explain the logic of this to anyone)
Shockwave = 2.67 x 3 = 8

The Adept's Pull and Shockwave have the same cooldown initially so:

Warp = 2.67 x 3 = 8
Singularity = 1.5 x 3 = 4.5

Again, Sentinel shares cooldown times with Adept:

Tech Armor = 4 x 3 = 12
Overload = 2.67 x 3 = 8
Cryo Blast = 2 x 3 = 6

Overload and Cryo Blast have the same cooldown for Engineer (near enough confirming 200% is the maximum) so:

Incinerate = 2.67 x 3 = 8
Combat Drone = 1.67 x 3 = 5
Sabotage = 2.67 x 3 = 8
Sentry Turret = 1.67 x 3 = 5

Incinerate and Sabotage have the same cooldown for Infiltrator, so:

Tactical Cloak = 3.33 x 3 = 10

That just leaves Soldier, sadly have no linking powers to be entirely sure but the fact that nothing gets over 200% does point to that being the limit so:

Adrenaline Rush = 3.33 x 3 = 10
Concussive Shot = 1.67 x 3 = 5

That fits. Anywho, I don't doubt people don't really want to read all that ramble up there so i'll just list the cooldown for every power here:

Adrenaline Rush = 10
Charge = 10
Combat Drone = 5
Concussive Shot = 5
Cryo Blast = 6
Incinerate = 8
Overload = 8
Pull = 4
Sabotage = 8
Sentry Turret = 5
Singularity = 4.5 (what?)
Shockwave = 8
Tactical Cloak = 10
Tech Armor = 12
Throw = 4
Warp = 8

Disclaimer: I cannot be 100% certain these figures are correct, but i'm confident they are.

Modifié par DayusMakhina, 13 février 2012 - 11:08 .

[Aurellia]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

WAIT A SEC.

After playing some insanity with the demo, I still got XP for picking up medi-gel. Do you just get more XP if you already have full medigel? +450 xp versus say +300xp?

Someone please clarify this, otherwise all my insanity playthroughs will be at level 60 so I can use medi-gel without worrying about lost xp. (Yes, I am really nitpicky about it).

The different medgels give you 1 or 2 medgels, hence some give 150 and others 300 exp. 

[Solid Sherlock]

MasterEcabob wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Krogan powers in MP.

Huh.... so those assorted passive classes (along with the Rage power) that I found in the leaked script were indeed for the MP and were not NPC squadmate passives for the Single Player.

Yeah, that's what I figured when you pointed them out in the spoiler forum.  To be fair, with the Asari one being "Asari Justicar" it was an easy mistake to make. 

Have these passives been posted somewhere?

[AVPen]

Solid Sherlock wrote...

MasterEcabob wrote...

Yeah, that's what I figured when you pointed them out in the spoiler forum.  To be fair, with the Asari one being "Asari Justicar" it was an easy mistake to make. 

Have these passives been posted somewhere?

I found them a little while back while I was datamining the leaked script for powers and passive classes, but at the time, I thought they were for possible NPC characters in the Single Player, so I didn't post them here.

Since we know differently now that they're for MP, I can post their names and descriptions:

Krogan Berserker - Your hardened Krogan battle skills improve your power and weapon damage, and allow you to increase your weight capacity.

Asari Justicar - Years of training as an Asari Justicar have improved your power and weapon damage, and have allowed you to increase your weight capacity.

Salarian Operative  - Years of training as a Salarian Operative have improved your power and weapon damage, and have allowed you to increase your weight capacity.

Drell Assassin - Years of intense combat training have honed your reflexes, improving power and weapon damage, and increasing weapon capacity.

Quarian Machinist - Years of experience fighting Geth have improved your combat training, increasing power and weapon damage, and giving you increased weight capacity.

Turian Veteran - A seasoned fighter from years of hard fighting all over the galaxy, your combat skills increase weapon damage and stability, and weight capacity.


EDIT: Just watch a video of someone upgrading their human Infiltrator in MP, apparently the Human class passive is called Alliance Training:

Alliance Training - A decade of rigorous combat training in the Alliance starts to click.
Rank 1 = 5% weapon damage bonus, 5% power damage bonus, 10 weight capacity
Rank 2 = increase power and force damage by 5%

Modifié par AVPen, 14 février 2012 - 12:17 .

[Solid Sherlock]

Thank you for posting them so quickly. I remember thinking the exact same thing when I was reading the script, but I don't remember anything about this rage mechanic. Would I be correct to assume those weren't included in there? I asked about them being posted because I was curious what the racial benefits are for the other races.

[AVPen]

^ Rage was in the script, but it was incomplete - I only found 3-4 of its Ranks, along with it's description, when I was searching for powers.

[Ghost43]

Does the weight capacity increase from Combat mastery, etc. reduce all cooldowns? Do we know what a increase of 20 or 50 pts means? How many points is the base capacity? On a side note, I wonder if powers like tactical cloak will be influenced by armor/upgrade cooldown reductions?

[SNascimento]

I'm amazed how power combos are improved in ME3.
.
I was casually playing a infiltrator just now and I noticed that if I use a concussive shot while the enemy is being electrocuted by disruptor ammo it will release a lot of sparks that may electrocuted other enemies...
.
Now that I'm wrinting this, I think I read something similar about freeze ammo... but seeing it in action is amazing.

[AVPen]

Ghost43 wrote...

Does the weight capacity increase from Combat mastery, etc. reduce all cooldowns? Do we know what a increase of 20 or 50 pts means? How many points is the base capacity? On a side note, I wonder if powers like tactical cloak will be influenced by armor/upgrade cooldown reductions?

The base weight capacity of a Soldier's Combat Mastery is 20 points - it can be upgraded by 30 points with the 3rd Rank (improving the class's total weight capacity to 50 points), while one of the 6th Ranks can upgrade it further by 50 points (improving the class's total weight capacity to 100 points).

As for how much the increases to weight capacity improves the cooldown, we don't really know for sure because we can't swap out the weapon loadouts in the demo.

[Biotic Sage]

DayusMakhina wrote...

That fits. Anywho, I don't doubt people don't really want to read all that ramble up there so i'll just list the cooldown for every power here:

Adrenaline Rush = 10
Charge = 10
Combat Drone = 5
Concussive Shot = 5
Cryo Blast = 6
Incinerate = 8
Overload = 8
Pull = 4
Sabotage = 8
Sentry Turret = 5
Singularity = 4.5 (what?)
Shockwave = 8
Tactical Cloak = 10
Tech Armor = 12
Throw = 4
Warp = 8

Disclaimer: I cannot be 100% certain these figures are correct, but i'm confident they are.

I concur Dayus.  I will put the base recharge times for each power in sometime tonight.  Thanks a lot!

Good thing I read through this thread today because I was just about to start doing those exact same calculations myself. 

[Ghost43]

AVPen wrote...

Ghost43 wrote...

Does the weight capacity increase from Combat mastery, etc. reduce all cooldowns? Do we know what a increase of 20 or 50 pts means? How many points is the base capacity? On a side note, I wonder if powers like tactical cloak will be influenced by armor/upgrade cooldown reductions?

The base weight capacity of a Soldier's Combat Mastery is 20 points - it can be upgraded by 30 points with the 3rd Rank (improving the class's total weight capacity to 50 points), while one of the 6th Ranks can upgrade it further by 50 points (improving the class's total weight capacity to 100 points).

As for how much the increases to weight capacity improves the cooldown, we don't really know for sure because we can't swap out the weapon loadouts in the demo.

Thanks. That's a five fold increase when fully evolved, which is... rather a lot. Not sure what to make of that.

[AVPen]

This was just posted in another thread, but I thought it should be mentioned here as well since it deals specifically with power formulas and cooldown formulas:

Manveer Heir wrote...

Power formulas work by modifying the base value at rank 1 not the current value. So a 50% increase in damage means take Current Damage + Rank 1 Damage * 0.5.

Power recharge formulas are even more crazy, and I won't go into the math, but basically a 100% increase in recharge speed for a 10 second cooldown power does not make it 5 seconds. It's close to 5 seconds, but not exactly. I promise you this is by design

@manveerheir

EDIT: And more info on Tactical Cloak's recharge speeds:

Manveer Heir wrote...

Cloak is a special case since its recharge time is dependent on how long you cloaked for. Your recharge speed upgrades reduce that maximum, and the speed the power recharges will be faster (basically view it as a linear graph from 0 to max recharge speed and your recharge time will map somewhere on that dependent on how long you cloaked). So upgrading the recharge speed on cloak will mean that recharges are faster in all cases, but not necessarily the exact number you see on the bar.

 

Modifié par AVPen, 14 février 2012 - 05:51 .

[DiscoDarth]

DayusMakhina wrote...


Tech Armor = 12 
Adrenaline Rush = 10
Charge = 10
Tactical Cloak = 10 

Incinerate = 8
Overload = 8 
Warp = 8 
Sabotage = 8 
Shockwave = 8 
Cryo Blast = 6

Sentry Turret = 5 
Combat Drone = 5 
Concussive Shot = 5 

Singularity = 4.5 (what?) 
Throw = 4
Pull = 4 

Disclaimer: I cannot be 100% certain these figures are correct, but i'm confident they are.

I'm allowed myself to sort abilities.
This make sense:
10, 12 sec -  class mandatory skills (AR, Tech Armor i.e guess Combat Drone(5sec) and Syngularity(4.5) are not here because adept and enginer are a lot more caster-like in ME3)
8, sec -  Protection Removers, Sabotage seems to be rather powerful too, Shockwave? Aoe with lift to detonate? Yes Please! Cryo Blast 6 sec cd due to no damage seems more like combo starter.
5 sec - Sentry Turret and Concussive shot. As far as i know Grenades do not share cd with other soldier abilities, this makes CS the only button to spam when AR on cd. Turrets? not as powerful as i thought 5 ces cd is fine i guess.
4,5-4 Biotic Control skills. 4 sec? Oh sh**!

DayusMakhina  thx 4 teh info!

Modifié par DiscoDarth, 14 février 2012 - 06:33 .

[DayusMakhina]

AVPen wrote...

EDIT: And more info on Tactical Cloak's recharge speeds:

Manveer Heir wrote...

Cloak is a special case since its recharge time is dependent on how long you cloaked for. Your recharge speed upgrades reduce that maximum, and the speed the power recharges will be faster (basically view it as a linear graph from 0 to max recharge speed and your recharge time will map somewhere on that dependent on how long you cloaked). So upgrading the recharge speed on cloak will mean that recharges are faster in all cases, but not necessarily the exact number you see on the bar.

 

I honestly never noticed my recharge speeds varying whilst using Tactical Cloak at all, might have to actively pay attention to that next time I play the demo I think (if I can't swindle myself MP access).

[Eckswhyzed]

Aurellia wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

WAIT A SEC.

After playing some insanity with the demo, I still got XP for picking up medi-gel. Do you just get more XP if you already have full medigel? +450 xp versus say +300xp?

Someone please clarify this, otherwise all my insanity playthroughs will be at level 60 so I can use medi-gel without worrying about lost xp. (Yes, I am really nitpicky about it).

The different medgels give you 1 or 2 medgels, hence some give 150 and others 300 exp. 

OK. And for anyone else who wants to know, my testing shows you get 50% more xp from a medigel station if you have full medigel. Which is.....alright. Resisting urge...to...min/max:crying:

[Yuri11]

After watchin this www.youtube.com/watch
i've been doing some math:
Avenger+Katana results in -9% cooldown penalty
Avenger+Katana+Pistol (imposible to get with adept but you can see the impact on cooldown) results in -60% penalty
Avenger+Pistol = +90% bonus
1   1   0   |   -9
1   1   1   |   -60
1   0   1   |   +90
By solving this you get numbers that shows how each weapon affects cooldown bonus/penalty - 141, 150, 51 respectively.
For example take the last line: you have X - bonus that  equal to max weight capasity and you're equiping avenger and pistol:
X-141-51=90 bonus, X=282%
282-51=231% - bonus with only pistol
etc.

Seems like it's better for casters to walk around with crappy pistol. One but powerfull upgraded weapon just isn't worth it.

Modifié par Yuri11, 14 février 2012 - 12:57 .

[luckyloser_62]

Yuri11 wrote...

After watchin this www.youtube.com/watch
i've been doing some math:
Avenger+Katana results in -9% cooldown penalty
Avenger+Katana+Pistol (imposible to get with adept but you can see the impact on cooldown) results in -60% penalty
Avenger+Pistol = +90% bonus
1   1   0   |   -9
1   1   1   |   -60
1   0   1   |   +90
By solving this you get numbers that shows how each weapon affects cooldown bonus/penalty - 141, 150, 51 respectively.
For example take the last line: you have X - bonus that  equal to max weight capasity and you're equiping avenger and pistol:
X-141-51=90 bonus, X=282%
282-51=231% - bonus with only pistol
etc.

Seems like it's better for casters to walk around with crappy pistol. One but powerfull upgraded weapon just isn't worth it.

This system is looking nice. I always like to play as a caster with firepower. I play as either a very vanguard like adept or a very adept like vanguard. I'm looking forward to using my favorite pistol and a sm/ar/sniper/shotgun depending on the mood. But it looks like you won't really be hurt as a caster taking 2 weapons as long as neither of those weapons aren't super heavy like the widow. Once you have all of the weight increases you could even still get a good bonus. With all of the cooldown bonuses available in the game I don't think we will need all of them.

[andy6915]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Kaidan, I cannot allow you to live because you have Reave now. I'm sorry, but you as a Spectre-Justicar just kills all the suspension of disbelief for me.

Why? It's just a specialized warp power. It's pretty much just like an evolved version of warp. Both significantly damage barriers and armor (ME3 warp does the armor/barrier weakening), and both put on a constant damage per second health drain. The only real differences are that warp weakens enemy protections and damage resistance, while reave does the opposite and strengthens your damage resistance. They're pretty much sibling powers I don't know where everyone got the idea that it's Asari only. Why, because it gave you enemies health in ME2, and an Asari just happened to have it? That was pretty much just to make you resistant to damage, something ME3 did in a better way by changing it from health increase to armor increase. That's why I don't feel wrong putting reave on my biotic characters, it's pretty much an evolved warp. Actually, with my vangaurd, I just pretended reave was my warp from ME1, just a bit stronger and added with a damage resist property, done.

Seriously, there is absolutely nothing hard to believe about it. Reave is an altered warp power, no more, no less. Kaiden learning warp and evolving it to reave in the 3 years between ME1 and ME3 is completely understandable.

[Ghost43]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Is it just me or is Incendiary Ammo totally not worth it now? There's no guaranteed panic now and the damage bonus is minuscule.

I think I'll just stick with Squad Cryo Ammo instead.

Agreed, seems way specialized. Cryo, with fewer shielded enemies and it's slow down on affected dudes and dudettes, seems pretty great.

Edit: Though, 30 % to health max evolved, or  Splash Radius of 2.5m for 100pts dmg. Not sure what that last part means.

Modifié par Ghost43, 15 février 2012 - 12:04 .

[Ghost43]

Can some explain the purpose of combat turret to me?Seems like a weaker, less mobile version of combat drone, on a cursory reading.

P.S. Does charge add a temporary bonus to shields if your shields are still full?

Modifié par Ghost43, 15 février 2012 - 12:14 .