3405 réponses à ce sujet

[The Spamming Troll]

laz,

if all the abilities are on an even playing field(which they should be), then would it still be problematic for you?

also, i think ME3 is nothing short of just being ME2:Episode 2, so i entirely understand that im going to get a lack of ME1 in my ME3.

[lazuli]

I don't think the abilities can be on an even playing field, though, as they are all applicable in different situations. I would like every ability to be desirable, at the very least. ME2 failed on this with such lemons as Shockwave (higher difficulty levels), Shredder Ammo, and Fortification.

I mean, you can't really compare Pull and Barrier. They fulfill two very different roles. But both of them are effective.

What I would not like is if there are more powers that are essentially just upgrades of existing powers. Reave was too close to Warp for my tastes. Energy Drain just blew Overload out of the water.

[el master pr]

lazuli wrote...

One player-created Vanguard need not be superior to another player-created Vanguard. They aren't developer created, which is the problem. The developers design the classes very purposefully. There is room for customization in the skill sets provided, more room than ME2, it seems.

It is all but impossible to discuss ME3 gameplay without referencing ME2 gameplay at this point, Troll, as ME3 gameplay is heavily influenced by ME2 gameplay- much more than ME1 influenced ME2's combat. In ME2, bonus powers were generally more powerful than the standard fare available to Shepard. They were typically only beaten by signature powers in terms of effectiveness. Why take Overload when you can take Energy Drain? Why take Warp when you can just as easily take Reave (Warp has explosions, Reave doesn't, but Reave heals and has AoE without a combo)?

Maybe all powers will be equal in terms of effectiveness in ME3, but I doubt it. I say let the developers create the classes and then let the players tweak the builds to their liking. I'm fine with a wider variety of bonus powers available to Shepard, though.

Here, Spamming Troll. I couldn't have said it better.

And as Biotic Sage said, this conversation won't change how ME3 powers will work.

[IMG] http://media.photobucket.com/image/deal%20with%20it%20mass%20effect/KingOfOldSkool/MassEffect2DealWithIt.jpg [/IMG]

Modifié par el master pr, 31 août 2011 - 02:33 .

[MELTOR13]

If Spamming's involved, this thread will derail quickly.

To get back on track, when are they releasing the Engineer demo??! I want to see some power evolutions for my favorite class, and see the turret in action.

[lazuli]

Ah, leave him alone. He's a passionate poster. Anyways, how boring would it be if we all agreed? I can see the appeal of custom classes, I just don't think they fit the Mass Effect trilogy well. Maybe we'll see it in a spin-off.

ME2, as much as I love it, had fairly shallow character builds. You could twist most classes into alternative roles effectively (I love the Shotgun Infiltrator and the Tank Sentinel), but the skill sets were too small to get too creative.

I think the customization that deeper power evolutions provide should be enough for me. And then there's the gun modding. I never got into that much in ME1, so I'm not excited for it yet.

[The Spamming Troll]

lazuli wrote...

I don't think the abilities can be on an even playing field, though, as they are all applicable in different situations. I would like every ability to be desirable, at the very least. ME2 failed on this with such lemons as Shockwave (higher difficulty levels), Shredder Ammo, and Fortification.

I mean, you can't really compare Pull and Barrier. They fulfill two very different roles. But both of them are effective.

What I would not like is if there are more powers that are essentially just upgrades of existing powers. Reave was too close to Warp for my tastes. Energy Drain just blew Overload out of the water.

arent weapons(not DLC weapons) on an even playing field? the avenger is better for close range while the vindicator is better at longer range. but they are all very much equal in terms of being on the same playing field. so why cant abilities be given that same apreciation?

its impossible to compare pull to barrier, but its easy to compare pull, throw, and slam. or barrier, fortification, and geth shield boost.

sorry im derailing this thread. again.

[blitzkkrieg]

Red Son Rising wrote...

i want to use warp and target singularity fields to detonate them. chipping away at shields and armor gets old after a while, itd be nice if shepard could target singularities directly and set off explosions in tight quarters

sticking singularities to bare surfaces to block hallways already feels slick when done right. using singularity as an adept grenade would be awesome

That would be a neat idea.  It would be really useful for protected enemies too; stager them with singularity, then explode it in their face.  I'm sure Liara's lift grenade will make for some fun combos, especially if you can get the explosion in the center of the group while on a bridge 


edit: also, it has been confirmed that sabotage is back, doubling as AI hacking and the ME1 sabotage (overheating enemy weapons) right?

Modifié par blitzkkrieg, 31 août 2011 - 03:04 .

[The Spamming Troll]

has it been confirmed that lift orb is actually a grenade?

whats the deal with weapons trumping abilities?

first it was the blackstorm, now its lift orb.

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

arent weapons(not DLC weapons) on an even playing field? the avenger is better for close range while the vindicator is better at longer range. but they are all very much equal in terms of being on the same playing field. so why cant abilities be given that same apreciation?

Some weapon classes are widely regarded as being well balanced against one another (shotguns, for instance).  Others, not so much.  Look at sniper rifles.  The Widow is just a powered-up Mantis.  It makes the Mantis obsolete, which isn't good for weapon variety.  The Mantis should have something the Widow doesn't.  The Widow should be master of one-hit-kills, that's fine with me.  But maybe the Mantis could have more thermal clips available.

I'm afraid it's going to be all but impossible to make all power evolutions viable.  Bioware had enough trouble with that in ME2.  Why would you take Heavy Pull over Pull Field, or Frag Grenade over Improved Flashbang?

[Biotic Sage]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

has it been confirmed that lift orb is actually a grenade?

whats the deal with weapons trumping abilities?

first it was the blackstorm, now its lift orb.

Lift Orb's description says that it is a grenade.  Also, when we see it in the demo, on the power wheel it has a limited number of Lift Orb's which can be used, like the Frag Grenade.

I don't think we should worry too much about weapons trumping abilities in this case, since Lift is no longer a regular power.

[Biotic Sage]

lazuli wrote...

I'm afraid it's going to be all but impossible to make all power evolutions viable.  Bioware had enough trouble with that in ME2.  Why would you take Heavy Pull over Pull Field, or Frag Grenade over Improved Flashbang?

Maybe ME3's version of Heavy Pull will include another attribute to make it more appealing, such as an increased vulnerability to weapon/biotic damage.

From what I've seen so far, they have done a pretty good job.  I already have a couple builds for the same class semi-planned out that go almost the complete opposite route in power evolutions; and I feel good about it, too, didn't just decide it for the sake of differentiation

[coke addict]

I wish there was more info on these new "consumable" powers(like grenades). I think its safe to say every class has one, because we have seen it on soldier shep, liara and garrus. Im also %90 sure the engineers turrets have a counter instead of cool down but I may be wrong. So with that info im geussing it goes something like soldier/grenades, infiltrator/proxmine, adept/lift orb, engineer/turret. I have no clue for vangaurd or sentinel... Which is strange cause sentinel has been shown a few times. Am I they only one interested in these?

[Biotic Sage]

coke addict wrote...

I wish there was more info on these new "consumable" powers(like grenades). I think its safe to say every class has one, because we have seen it on soldier shep, liara and garrus. Im also %90 sure the engineers turrets have a counter instead of cool down but I may be wrong. So with that info im geussing it goes something like soldier/grenades, infiltrator/proxmine, adept/lift orb, engineer/turret. I have no clue for vangaurd or sentinel... Which is strange cause sentinel has been shown a few times. Am I they only one interested in these?

Gameplay of the Adept and Sentinel has been shown, and neither of them has consumable powers.  The new Adept power is Overpower and the new Sentinel power is Amplification.  These are modes they can go into for increased power/cooldown bonuses.  We have seen the squad power screen of the Sentinel and the weapon wheel of the Adept, so this is confirmed.  However, it is still possible that all of the combat classes (Soldier, Infiltrator, Vanguard) will have consumable grenade powers, since we haven't seen anything from either Vanguard or Infiltrator yet.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 31 août 2011 - 05:48 .

[coke addict]

So combat classes get consumables and casters get mode powers? Thats interesting... But what about engineer? Is the turret a consumable power or do they have a mode power?

[Biotic Sage]

coke addict wrote...

So combat classes get consumables and casters get mode powers? Thats interesting... But what about engineer? Is the turret a consumable power or do they have a mode power?

Like I said, it's still speculation as to whether or not Vanguard or Infiltrator will get consumable grenade powers like Soldier, but it is possible.  Won't know until we see info about them.

Can't speak to the engineer yet because all I have to go on is that screenshot in my OP.  Unitl we see the description of turret or see it in action we won't know.  Unless you were one of the lucky ones to catch the engineer demo live on Bioware TV?  They still haven't posted the recorded footage yet.

[coke addict]

I realize its just speculation but it would make sense that way dont you think? only problem is that makes engineer the odd duck as the only caster with no mode power... And no I missed that demo as well and have been looking every where for it ever since lol

[coke addict]

Btw I may not have seen the demo but I remember some one discribing the turret as a grenade like ball you throw into place which creats the turret once it comes to rest. Thats why I assumed it functions like a soldiers grenades. Obviously this vauge memory isnt very credible but Im hoping thats true because it sounds awesome... Sorry if I double post but im on my phone and it wont let me edit

[littlezack]

I dunno, I'd prefer if it activated like the Drone. With the grenade, there's always the possibility it might bounce the wrong way.

[coke addict]

Me grenades dont seem as bouncy as in most games, but I get what you're saying. I just think the animation of it fabricating an omni-turret would look cooler then it just apearing like the drones...

[CroGamer002]

MELTOR13 wrote...

To get back on track, when are they releasing the Engineer demo??! I want to see some power evolutions for my favorite class, and see the turret in action.

I dunno.

They didn't upload any video from that day.
Bioware has some technical problems.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

laz,

if all the abilities are on an even playing field(which they should be), then would it still be problematic for you?

also, i think ME3 is nothing short of just being ME2:Episode 2, so i entirely understand that im going to get a lack of ME1 in my ME3.

That's because ME1 gameplay wise is broken. You still get the weapons mod, but no to bypassing protection.

[CroGamer002]

^That.

[Sebbe1337o]

This will be really interesting when it comes out. In ME2 after 4-5 playthroughs I used Gibbed's savegame editor to max out all abilities I had just for fun. That will be MASSIVELY OP in ME3 if such an editor comes to it, which it probably will.

[lietk12]

Perhaps one way to have made heavy pull more viable would be to make affected enemies more vulnerable to damage or have a greater warp detonation radius?