3405 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic Sage]

Update: Manveer Heir just confirmed there are 57 total powers in ME3.

[Biotic Sage]

Sideshow Jed wrote...

At 178 points, you're getting only 64% of the available power improvements. It looks like a lot because there's a mess of inbuilt opportunity costs.

I see your point, but I still maintain that the RPG system would be deeper and more satisfying if they kept the extra layer of sacrifice.

We can agree to disagree though.

[Someone With Mass]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Update: Manveer Heir just confirmed there are 57 total powers in ME3.

Wow.

That's almost twice as many powers ME2 had.

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Update: Manveer Heir just confirmed there are 57 total powers in ME3.

Wow.

That's almost twice as many powers ME2 had.

There must be some squadmate-exclusive powers among them I think. The more the better!

[Malanek]

Spartas Husky wrote...

"they knew hybrid firing system wasn't fun.... but found planet scanning worth the time and resources"

"they knew taking out the RPG from the companions and selling you mediocre armors later on was good"

"they knew listening to people complain about 25 second long immersive elevator out were bad.... so they replaced them with 15-20 sec loading screens"

"they knew Individual cooldowns were good... so why not change it for the hell of it"

Begs the question... what is their definition of fun?... or whoa re their testers to begin with. For a game that blasts the word "choice" every time it gets... certainly Bioware has taken the time to make the choices for ya.

The hybrid firing scheme is slower and less skill intensive than ammo and has nothing to do with planet scanning. I will give you the fact planet scanning was crap.

The armour in ME2 was much better balanced than the armour in ME1. The characters also looked much, much better visually.

The loading screens in ME2 were about 2-5 seconds for me. There literally wouldn't have been time to have banter during the loading screens. The other problem with banter was the number of squadmates they had available was so high that each additional combination meant they would need to write a staggering amount of banter. But banter is definately good if well written and am glad it is making a comeback in ME3. The loading screens are probably not the place to do it.

I thought individual coolsdowns were better at first but I came around pretty quickly. The global cooldown allowed more dynamic and action orientated gameplay. The Vanguard, a very popular class, wouldn't exist in its current form without the global cooldown because you use charge so frequently. Nor would the infiltrator. Overall the global cooldown was good and there were very good reasons for doing it. It sure as hell wasn't done for the hell of it.

ME2 was very well received by the vast majority of people. Particularly the gajmeplay and most of the things you are complaining about. Not everything about it was perfect and they can make mistakes, but overall it was exceptionally good.

Modifié par Malanek999, 02 septembre 2011 - 10:07 .

[Gromnir]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Sideshow Jed wrote...

At 178 points, you're getting only 64% of the available power improvements. It looks like a lot because there's a mess of inbuilt opportunity costs.

I see your point, but I still maintain that the RPG system would be deeper and more satisfying if they kept the extra layer of sacrifice.

We can agree to disagree though.

Would someone explain this?  How is 178 points only 64% when each skill takes 21 points to max?

Are you referring to different power evolutions?

[Gromnir]

I think global cooldown was a step in the right direction.  It allows the right tool for a specific situation to be used more frequently.  Separate cooldowns do encourage using more variety of powers, but it doesn't help when you have abilities that aren't useful for the situation.

That being said, I almost think the class exclusive powers should have been on a separate (longer) cooldown than the regular powers simply because they tended to overshadow the regular powers (as balanced in ME2).

[Spartas Husky]

Malanek999 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

"they knew hybrid firing system wasn't fun.... but found planet scanning worth the time and resources"

"they knew taking out the RPG from the companions and selling you mediocre armors later on was good"

"they knew listening to people complain about 25 second long immersive elevator out were bad.... so they replaced them with 15-20 sec loading screens"

"they knew Individual cooldowns were good... so why not change it for the hell of it"

Begs the question... what is their definition of fun?... or whoa re their testers to begin with. For a game that blasts the word "choice" every time it gets... certainly Bioware has taken the time to make the choices for ya.

The hybrid firing scheme is slower and less skill intensive than ammo and has nothing to do with planet scanning. I will give you the fact planet scanning was crap.

The armour in ME2 was much better balanced than the armour in ME1. The characters also looked much, much better visually.

The loading screens in ME2 were about 2-5 seconds for me. There literally wouldn't have been time to have banter during the loading screens. The other problem with banter was the number of squadmates they had available was so high that each additional combination meant they would need to write a staggering amount of banter. But banter is definately good if well written and am glad it is making a comeback in ME3. The loading screens are probably not the place to do it.

I thought individual coolsdowns were better at first but I came around pretty quickly. The global cooldown allowed more dynamic and action orientated gameplay. The Vanguard, a very popular class, wouldn't exist in its current form without the global cooldown because you use charge so frequently. Nor would the infiltrator. Overall the global cooldown was good and there were very good reasons for doing it. It sure as hell wasn't done for the hell of it.

ME2 was very well received by the vast majority of people. Particularly the gajmeplay and most of the things you are complaining about. Not everything about it was perfect and they can make mistakes, but overall it was exceptionally good.

My example that noone ever seems to have an answer to.

FAllout 3, Fallout new Vegas:
-The vast majority recieved Fallout new Vegas Modifications iwth praise. Does that mean that all of the ones who liked the original got the middle finger?
-All of the ones who liked to play more towards the VATS or aiming down the sights got both what they wanted. The Developers had an ounce of brain cells and decided to implement both systems. If THEY thought it was slow, they weren't they ones to judge. They allowed the player to play the way they wanted to. if one player wanted to play slower than the next, well its his or her decision. Options are never bad. They are like condoms, better than them and not need them, than need them and not have them.

Did I say it wasn't a great game? no. But like I said... but I'll word it differently. They took 10 giant double steps foward. But while doing so, they took 20 normal steps back.


Should the choice be left up to you or the one making the game? Whats stopping them from giving you an option. You want universal cooldowns or individual ones. ANd before you argue it would mean one would be more used than the other... who are you, or I, or anyone else to judge. Whoever chooses the way they play is up to them.

There are good ideas behind each side... so why not do both? Doesn't take alot to have a script on the option menu. Other games have done it... games with less resources, and a worse reputation than Bioware. So couldn't they?

You dont like cooling... great, play without cooling, why can't there be the option to let the weapon cool. Would I eject... NO.... would you let it cool, NO. Why do I have the right to judge you, or vise versa. Why not to give the player the option to choose.

You praise the 10 things they did great. So do I. But you dont care about the 20 little things they took out. Simply because they aren't big.

Not because the developers there was a good idea to change the style does it mean they should just scrap it... on games based on choice "rpg's" the choice should be left to the player. Always with the player, its called having options.

I mean... all this could be sumed up in 1 question.
What is the reason behind... not putting the option on the options menu.?
(Mark here) If you want the option to Trigger Individual cooldowns, leave empty if you wish universal cooldowns?
(Mark here) If you want the option toTrigger ejection only firing system, leave empty if you wish the option to let your weapon vent once you run out of sinks.
(Mark here) If you want the option for loading screens, leave unmark if you wish to see shep in the elevator. Unmark means 5-10 longer in loading.
(Mark Here) If you want the option to Automatic First Aid upon ally falling, leave unmark do to it manually
(Mark here) If you
An regarding the inventory... I dont wana buy thousands of useless things.
What was so hard about giving your ME2 inventory system to your squadies?.

Shouldn't the choice of how you play be left up to you?

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 02 septembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[lazuli]

What does this have to do with power evolutions?

Edit: To bring it back on topic, I think the area evolutions are at risk of being the only realistic option for many damaging powers.  Why?  As you level the power up past its first evolution and select the other two, those additional effects could very well apply to a larger number of opponents if you select the area version.

Modifié par lazuli, 02 septembre 2011 - 10:43 .

[Sideshow Jed]

Gromnir wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Sideshow Jed wrote...

At 178 points, you're getting only 64% of the available power improvements. It looks like a lot because there's a mess of inbuilt opportunity costs.

I see your point, but I still maintain that the RPG system would be deeper and more satisfying if they kept the extra layer of sacrifice.

We can agree to disagree though.

Would someone explain this?  How is 178 points only 64% when each skill takes 21 points to max?

Are you referring to different power evolutions?

Yup. I'm in the "It takes 36 points to max, even if they don't let you spend more than 21" camp. I've had unpleasant gameplay experiences with opportunity cost.

Incidentally, it'd take184 points to max out five powers if you opened up both advanced options. Also, I kinda enjoy blatant stat manipulation.

[The Spamming Troll]

Biotic Sage wrote...

ME1 = Pendulum too far to the left
ME2 = Bioware attempts to course correct, but overcompensates, so pendulum ends up too far to the right
ME3 = Another course correction to meet in the middle and address all concerns

Please wait til ME3 is released, or at least until we have some substantial info, to jump to negative conclusions.  As a Mass Effect fan, there is no reason for you to be anything other than optimistic for this game right now.

i think you also need to wait untill ME3 gets released. your assumeing its already gonig to be the best gmae EVAR and its looking more like ME2 with its dumbness factor, but with modable weapons. whooopdie doo.

i have little faith in ME3 being a better game then ME1, even tho it is their third attempt.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 septembre 2011 - 11:53 .

[Eckswhyzee]

"I mean... all this could be sumed up in 1 question.
What is the reason behind... not putting the option on the options menu.?
(Mark here) If you want the option to Trigger Individual cooldowns, leave empty if you wish universal cooldowns?
(Mark
here) If you want the option toTrigger ejection only firing system,
leave empty if you wish the option to let your weapon vent once you run
out of sinks.
(Mark here) If you want the option for loading
screens, leave unmark if you wish to see shep in the elevator. Unmark
means 5-10 longer in loading.
(Mark Here) If you want the option to Automatic First Aid upon ally falling, leave unmark do to it manually
(Mark here) If you
An regarding the inventory... I dont wana buy thousands of useless things.
What was so hard about giving your ME2 inventory system to your squadies?."

@Spartas Husky

It's not always a good idea to chuck in more random **** in the options menu. For the first 2 points, the comvat would have to be rebalanced for both cooldown systems and both ammo systems. Which means even more time spent faffing around in testing.

Interestingly, you CAN enable global cooldown and the heat system in ME2 for PC via modding. Check out the 'Modding is Possible' threads.

[Josh123914]

Eckswhyzee wrote...

"I mean... all this could be sumed up in 1 question.
What is the reason behind... not putting the option on the options menu.?
(Mark here) If you want the option to Trigger Individual cooldowns, leave empty if you wish universal cooldowns?
(Mark
here) If you want the option toTrigger ejection only firing system,
leave empty if you wish the option to let your weapon vent once you run
out of sinks.
(Mark here) If you want the option for loading
screens, leave unmark if you wish to see shep in the elevator. Unmark
means 5-10 longer in loading.
(Mark Here) If you want the option to Automatic First Aid upon ally falling, leave unmark do to it manually
(Mark here) If you
An regarding the inventory... I dont wana buy thousands of useless things.
What was so hard about giving your ME2 inventory system to your squadies?."

@Spartas Husky

It's not always a good idea to chuck in more random **** in the options menu. For the first 2 points, the comvat would have to be rebalanced for both cooldown systems and both ammo systems. Which means even more time spent faffing around in testing.

Interestingly, you CAN enable global cooldown and the heat system in ME2 for PC via modding. Check out the 'Modding is Possible' threads.

the reason why this will never work is unless they do a complete overhaul with the powers, because powers in Mass Effect were designed for individual cooldown while ME2 was made for univeral cooldown and it simply will break the game if in Mass Effect 3 if you choose the former, and on the subject of toggling loading screens or elevator rides isn't possible, partly because then they'll have to do twice the amount of elevator rides and loading screens only to have the same payoff regardless (i.e. a waste of dev time) and also toggling something like the way loading screens work in the options is like requesting to be able to switch the gravity on or off during combat.

[Eckswhyzee]

Josh123914 wrote...
...and also toggling something like the way loading screens work in the options is like requesting to be able to switch the gravity on or off during combat.

Interestingly, I loved how in Legion's loyalty mission there actually is LESS GRAVITY:happy:. Here's hoping for some low-gravity/zero-g combat is ME3!

[Biotic Sage]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i think you also need to wait untill ME3 gets released. your assumeing its already gonig to be the best gmae EVAR and its looking more like ME2 with its dumbness factor, but with modable weapons. whooopdie doo.

Look, nowhere did I say that ME3 is the best game ever, a great game, or even a good game.  All I said was that they are obviously addressing a lot of the concerns for ME2, and at this stage in development there's no point in being anything except optimistic.  Why drive yourself crazy with unsubstantiated negativity?  Just wait and see.

So I already was taking me own advice.  Being optimistic isn't jumping to conclusions; at least with how I define optimism, there is still plenty of room for disappointment when all is said and done.

[Biotic Sage]

lazuli wrote...

What does this have to do with power evolutions?

Edit: To bring it back on topic, I think the area evolutions are at risk of being the only realistic option for many damaging powers.  Why?  As you level the power up past its first evolution and select the other two, those additional effects could very well apply to a larger number of opponents if you select the area version.

There does need to be more of a damage incentive for the heavy evolution rather than area evolution.  I'm still waiting on a lot of details for most of the powers, so I'd be happy to talk about this after we see them.

Thank you for the attempt by the way, but this thread is knee deep in "ME1 is WAY better than ME2!!!" fanaticism.  I mean, it's some serious zealotry.  I appreciate their passion, but I feel like my way of loving the Mass Effect series is more tender and wholesome: each chapter has its own strengths and weaknesses, and I enjoy them each in a different, special way.  And yes, I am talking about making sweet love to Mass Effect down by the fire.

[lazuli]

Biotic Sage wrote...

There does need to be more of a damage incentive for the heavy evolution rather than area evolution.  I'm still waiting on a lot of details for most of the powers, so I'd be happy to talk about this after we see them.

Thank you for the attempt by the way, but this thread is knee deep in "ME1 is WAY better than ME2!!!" fanaticism.  I mean, it's some serious zealotry.  I appreciate their passion, but I feel like my way of loving the Mass Effect series is more tender and wholesome: each chapter has its own strengths and weaknesses, and I enjoy them each in a different, special way.  And yes, I am talking about making sweet love to Mass Effect down by the fire.

Yeah, I can't wait to theory-craft about potential builds.  I had more fun theory-crafting my Rogue in DA2 than I actually did playing the game.  But let's not go down that path.

I think my concerns about area powers being too tempting apply to squad ammo powers as well.  It's going to be hard to compete with the squad version, especially if any secondary effects you unlock as you keep evolving the power apply to your squad as well.

Finally, I hope that defensive powers return.  I'd love to see a Squad Barrier evolution option, though obviously it would need to be balanced appropriately.

[Biotic Sage]

lazuli wrote...

Yeah, I can't wait to theory-craft about potential builds.  I had more fun theory-crafting my Rogue in DA2 than I actually did playing the game.  But let's not go down that path.

I too am all about theory crafting haha.  I've played through KOTOR about 15 times, but I must've started that game at least 40 different times.  It's always so exciting starting a new character in an RPG; ME1's Alliance Military Database did a great job in setting the mysterious and enigmatic tone of the game, and the music for the character creation was perfect.  I dream at least once a week that I am starting my ME3 Shepard; or should I say, continuing.

Also, even though we won't go down the path of talking about DA2, you and I are on the exact same page, trust me.

[blitzkkrieg]

Biotic Sage wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Yeah, I can't wait to theory-craft about potential builds.  I had more fun theory-crafting my Rogue in DA2 than I actually did playing the game.  But let's not go down that path.

I too am all about theory crafting haha.  I've played through KOTOR about 15 times, but I must've started that game at least 40 different times.  It's always so exciting starting a new character in an RPG; ME1's Alliance Military Database did a great job in setting the mysterious and enigmatic tone of the game, and the music for the character creation was perfect.  I dream at least once a week that I am starting my ME3 Shepard; or should I say, continuing.

Also, even though we won't go down the path of talking about DA2, you and I are on the exact same page, trust me.

I love theory crafting too.  For ME2 I always felt kind of bad because about 1/3 of the characters I made were deleted because I realized I could test that theory with another character first.   I don't want to get sucked into the argument, but I do strongly feel like ME3 will be the best game for customization.  I've already started brain-storming some interesting ideas:
Ammo based soldier (always got a little bored with my soldiers always having to take AR for CS)
Vanguard-esq Sentinel (that manual blast is really going to allow for some fun chaos)

And I'm still waiting for more info on the other classes, especially vanguard

[Biotic Sage]

Keep in mind that ME2 had 39 total powers counting DLC.

ME3 has 57 total powers. There are 37 standard Shepard powers, counting Unity, all six class Masteries, and all six variants of Fitness. With my conservative figure, that leaves us with (at least) a whopping 20 bonus / squadmate powers! Get excited guys. I know I am.

[bucyrus5000]

Any news on Vanguards?

[souljahbill]

What are the 37 standard Shepard powers?

[K4im4lino]

I know there has been quite a bit debate on whether 178 total skill points is to many. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this yet, but it takes 4 points to evolve a power at levels 4-6. I was just watching some sentinel footage on n4g and noticed it. I double checked and he definitely used 1 point to level 1-3 and 4 points for level 4.

[K4im4lino]

I am sorry correction. It is 1 point for level 1, 2 points for level 2 , etc.This is the same as ME2. I don't know why I thought it was different than ME2. I guess I assumed that because it was more of a return to ME style leveling at least as it pertains to the number of powers available, that it was 1 point per level like in ME