3405 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

lazuli wrote...

I guess I'm just more optimistic than you.  There are a lot of differences between killing an enemy with a shotgun and with your heavy melee.  For one, all heavy melees shown thus far have featured prolonged animations in which Shepard cannot be moved.  Your videos showcase some highly mobile combat with shotgun kills, allowing you to stay on the move while blasting your foes apart.

Maybe I'm wrong.  I haven't played any of the demos, and even if I had I doubt they'd be playable on the difficulty setting I'd prefer for long-term play.  I'm just excited for having more options than the elbow of death.

Everything I've seen about ME3 thus far looks very promising - except the omni-blades. They are presented like the infamous "press a button and something awesome happens". I don't like that (and I don't like how they look - poor FemShep looks like an insect with that thing attached to her arm )

Having more (melee) options is great, but those options should have specific pros and cons. The point you make about mobility is one of the (potential) reasons to not use omni-blades. A prolonged animation leaves Shepard vulnerable for a longer duration than firing a shotgun while on the move. If that's true than I won't use those attacks.

We know too little at this point to get an idea how things compare to one another, but the Vanguard omni-blade does have the potential to "ruin" the class or to become close to redundancy. If the omni-blade adds new and different options in combat it's great, but if it doesn't (and the way I imagine it based on the other omni-blades we've already seen and described) it's a waste of space (for a Vanguard).

[lazuli]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

Having more (melee) options is great, but those options should have specific pros and cons. The point you make about mobility is one of the (potential) reasons to not use omni-blades. A prolonged animation leaves Shepard vulnerable for a longer duration than firing a shotgun while on the move. If that's true than I won't use those attacks.

We know too little at this point to get an idea how things compare to one another, but the Vanguard omni-blade does have the potential to "ruin" the class or to become close to redundancy. If the omni-blade adds new and different options in combat it's great, but if it doesn't (and the way I imagine it based on the other omni-blades we've already seen and described) it's a waste of space (for a Vanguard).

I see it playing out like this: the melee attacks will be useful, but not universally applicable.  My current guess is that they're especially useful when you're picking off foes away from a large group.  When wading into a mob of opponents, though, the Claymore + Inferno Ammo (or the new and improved Cryo Ammo) might be a better idea.

I think Bioware has enough balancing experience by this point not to have melee attacks eclipse weaponry, or vice versa.

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

I hope so, but we'll have to wait and see for ourselves.

The only advantage I can think of is the option to take out enemies silently (stealthy). But that's not the "way of the Vanguard" - they charge into fights headstrong and go berserk. They are not a "subtle" class like the Infiltrator, for example (I can see the benefit in having the option to sneak around and reduce enemy numbers a little before hell breaks lose - it just isn't Vanguard'ish).

[lazuli]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

I hope so, but we'll have to wait and see for ourselves.

The only advantage I can think of is the option to take out enemies silently (stealthy). But that's not the "way of the Vanguard" - they charge into fights headstrong and go berserk. They are not a "subtle" class like the Infiltrator, for example (I can see the benefit in having the option to sneak around and reduce enemy numbers a little before hell breaks lose - it just isn't Vanguard'ish).

We're forgetting one of the most important uses of melee, though- animation canceling.  I wonder how that will play out.  It took a while before people realized that you could shoot the Scimitar and melee at the same time in ME2.  Imagine what a deeper melee system will allow.

[bucyrus5000]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

I hope so, but we'll have to wait and see for ourselves.

The only advantage I can think of is the option to take out enemies silently (stealthy). But that's not the "way of the Vanguard" - they charge into fights headstrong and go berserk. They are not a "subtle" class like the Infiltrator, for example (I can see the benefit in having the option to sneak around and reduce enemy numbers a little before hell breaks lose - it just isn't Vanguard'ish).

yes and no. When I'm wrecking ****es, sure sneaking doesn't seem nessessary, but sometimes I like to Tee up a target and send them flying off a ledge or into some death trap. Sneaking can have it's uses to a Vanguard somethimes.

Modifié par bucyrus5000, 03 septembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[No Snakes Alive]

lazuli wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Hmm. I'm thinking it must be some new mode like Overpower/Amplification if it syncs so well with Charge and let's you use it often when properly spec'd.

My money is on a short range blast, like one of Diablo's many Nova spells.

That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for. Some sort of Shockwave that stuns enemies within a certain radius of the Vanguard, like Jax's enhanced ground pound in Mortal Kombat 9.

It'd be cool if it launched them into the air in slow mo for shotgun juggle combos like it was MK too lol.

Something about the Charge often comment makes me think it's a new mode though. Unless they really revamp Shockwave the Vanguard can use some more castable powers IMO though so I hope you're right.

[blitzkkrieg]

Someone earlier had the idea of an ability that, once activated, if you kill an enemy you get a damage bonus (or something to that extent). I think this would be a good addition to the vanguard class; if you kill an enemy x seconds within using charge, cool-downs are reduced and you get x damage bonus. It would allow for the more rapid use of charge, and keep the "high stakes, high reward" idea alive because if you keep charging between enemies you dont have time to heal, but you can keep your "momentum" going.

[The Spamming Troll]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

lazuli wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Hmm. I'm thinking it must be some new mode like Overpower/Amplification if it syncs so well with Charge and let's you use it often when properly spec'd.

My money is on a short range blast, like one of Diablo's many Nova spells.

That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for. Some sort of Shockwave that stuns enemies within a certain radius of the Vanguard, like Jax's enhanced ground pound in Mortal Kombat 9.

It'd be cool if it launched them into the air in slow mo for shotgun juggle combos like it was MK too lol.

Something about the Charge often comment makes me think it's a new mode though. Unless they really revamp Shockwave the Vanguard can use some more castable powers IMO though so I hope you're right.

so you want the tech armors explosion thing for the vangaurd? never played diablo or mortal cobat.

personally i think every class should have that sort of ability. definately the soldeir should have a "smash fist into ground, knock back enemies" ability.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 03 septembre 2011 - 06:44 .

[Spartas Husky]

Josh123914 wrote...

Eckswhyzee wrote...

"I mean... all this could be sumed up in 1 question.
What is the reason behind... not putting the option on the options menu.?
(Mark here) If you want the option to Trigger Individual cooldowns, leave empty if you wish universal cooldowns?
(Mark
here) If you want the option toTrigger ejection only firing system,
leave empty if you wish the option to let your weapon vent once you run
out of sinks.
(Mark here) If you want the option for loading
screens, leave unmark if you wish to see shep in the elevator. Unmark
means 5-10 longer in loading.
(Mark Here) If you want the option to Automatic First Aid upon ally falling, leave unmark do to it manually
(Mark here) If you
An regarding the inventory... I dont wana buy thousands of useless things.
What was so hard about giving your ME2 inventory system to your squadies?."

@Spartas Husky

It's not always a good idea to chuck in more random **** in the options menu. For the first 2 points, the comvat would have to be rebalanced for both cooldown systems and both ammo systems. Which means even more time spent faffing around in testing.

Interestingly, you CAN enable global cooldown and the heat system in ME2 for PC via modding. Check out the 'Modding is Possible' threads.

the reason why this will never work is unless they do a complete overhaul with the powers, because powers in Mass Effect were designed for individual cooldown while ME2 was made for univeral cooldown and it simply will break the game if in Mass Effect 3 if you choose the former, and on the subject of toggling loading screens or elevator rides isn't possible, partly because then they'll have to do twice the amount of elevator rides and loading screens only to have the same payoff regardless (i.e. a waste of dev time) and also toggling something like the way loading screens work in the options is like requesting to be able to switch the gravity on or off during combat.

Its not only always a good idea according to your taste of gameplay. if anyone else doesn't like it they can go suck it, right?.

Nice stance.

Although the part of "you can enable global cooldown in PC".... doesn't make sense. Dont we already have global cooldown, and what some are looking for is "individual" cooldown?


EDIT FINAL: IN anycase. To end this one question.

Why can't Bioware, given that games much larger than ME2, from different companies put out Betas to increase the sample size pool of feedback, do the same?

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 03 septembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[littlezack]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Josh123914 wrote...

Eckswhyzee wrote...

"I mean... all this could be sumed up in 1 question.
What is the reason behind... not putting the option on the options menu.?
(Mark here) If you want the option to Trigger Individual cooldowns, leave empty if you wish universal cooldowns?
(Mark
here) If you want the option toTrigger ejection only firing system,
leave empty if you wish the option to let your weapon vent once you run
out of sinks.
(Mark here) If you want the option for loading
screens, leave unmark if you wish to see shep in the elevator. Unmark
means 5-10 longer in loading.
(Mark Here) If you want the option to Automatic First Aid upon ally falling, leave unmark do to it manually
(Mark here) If you
An regarding the inventory... I dont wana buy thousands of useless things.
What was so hard about giving your ME2 inventory system to your squadies?."

@Spartas Husky

It's not always a good idea to chuck in more random **** in the options menu. For the first 2 points, the comvat would have to be rebalanced for both cooldown systems and both ammo systems. Which means even more time spent faffing around in testing.

Interestingly, you CAN enable global cooldown and the heat system in ME2 for PC via modding. Check out the 'Modding is Possible' threads.

the reason why this will never work is unless they do a complete overhaul with the powers, because powers in Mass Effect were designed for individual cooldown while ME2 was made for univeral cooldown and it simply will break the game if in Mass Effect 3 if you choose the former, and on the subject of toggling loading screens or elevator rides isn't possible, partly because then they'll have to do twice the amount of elevator rides and loading screens only to have the same payoff regardless (i.e. a waste of dev time) and also toggling something like the way loading screens work in the options is like requesting to be able to switch the gravity on or off during combat.

Its not only always a good idea according to your taste of gameplay. if anyone else doesn't like it they can go suck it, right?.

Nice stance.

Although the part of "you can enable global cooldown in PC".... doesn't make sense. Dont we already have global cooldown, and what some are looking for is "individual" cooldown?


EDIT FINAL: IN anycase. To end this one question.

Why can't Bioware, given that games much larger than ME2, from different companies put out Betas to increase the sample size pool of feedback, do the same?

Like I said before, betas are not typically made for feedback, they're made to iron out bugs in the gameplay design, fix things that flat out do not work or are working improperly. Really, that's what game testers are hired for - not to give their opinions or change gameplay, but to help designers find things that they may have missed. At the stage in development that Bioware would be sending out a beta, it's a bit too late to be changing that sort of thing.

Now, I don't know why exactly Bioware doesn't put out a beta. Maybe it's a money thing. Maybe it's a resource thing. Maybe it's a time thing. I don't work in the gaming industry, so I don't know the complexities. But it's hardly a commonplace thing to do among games, and even when it is done, it's not done for the reasons you seem to think it is. Even if they made a beta - something they've never before - it would not have led to them chaning the global cooldown system. It works the way they intended it to work.

[Eckswhyzee]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Josh123914 wrote...

Eckswhyzee wrote...

"I mean... all this could be sumed up in 1 question.
What is the reason behind... not putting the option on the options menu.?
(Mark here) If you want the option to Trigger Individual cooldowns, leave empty if you wish universal cooldowns?
(Mark
here) If you want the option toTrigger ejection only firing system,
leave empty if you wish the option to let your weapon vent once you run
out of sinks.
(Mark here) If you want the option for loading
screens, leave unmark if you wish to see shep in the elevator. Unmark
means 5-10 longer in loading.
(Mark Here) If you want the option to Automatic First Aid upon ally falling, leave unmark do to it manually
(Mark here) If you
An regarding the inventory... I dont wana buy thousands of useless things.
What was so hard about giving your ME2 inventory system to your squadies?."

@Spartas Husky

It's not always a good idea to chuck in more random **** in the options menu. For the first 2 points, the comvat would have to be rebalanced for both cooldown systems and both ammo systems. Which means even more time spent faffing around in testing.

Interestingly, you CAN enable global cooldown and the heat system in ME2 for PC via modding. Check out the 'Modding is Possible' threads.

the reason why this will never work is unless they do a complete overhaul with the powers, because powers in Mass Effect were designed for individual cooldown while ME2 was made for univeral cooldown and it simply will break the game if in Mass Effect 3 if you choose the former, and on the subject of toggling loading screens or elevator rides isn't possible, partly because then they'll have to do twice the amount of elevator rides and loading screens only to have the same payoff regardless (i.e. a waste of dev time) and also toggling something like the way loading screens work in the options is like requesting to be able to switch the gravity on or off during combat.

Its not only always a good idea according to your taste of gameplay. if anyone else doesn't like it they can go suck it, right?.

Nice stance.

Although the part of "you can enable global cooldown in PC".... doesn't make sense. Dont we already have global cooldown, and what some are looking for is "individual" cooldown?


EDIT FINAL: IN anycase. To end this one question.

Why can't Bioware, given that games much larger than ME2, from different companies put out Betas to increase the sample size pool of feedback, do the same?

Yeah I meant individual. Whoops^_^

Anyway, on topic, that AOE attack for vanguard OR berserk damage increase mode both sound pretty sweet. How about something that stops health regen while increasing power/weapon damage?


Also ,the problem I see with Vanguard heavy melee is that it's already competing with very powerful short range damage dealers (e.g. Claymore). How about some sort of biotic choke slam causing an AOE stun?

Or the heavy melee might suck, but I'll still try and show off with it anyway.

[blitzkkrieg]

I think on higher difficulties melee for vanguard will be less practical due to the time it takes to use it. That's not to say it will be useless, but I think that with even smarter AI, you'll need the speed of attack the shotguns offer to stay alive. For example, charge into 3 guys, take 2 out with shotgun then melee the last one instead of having to reload. This could all change pending on the new power though, so I guess we have to wait and see.

[CroGamer002]

Need to read new updates.

[Josh123914]

blitzkkrieg wrote...

I think on higher difficulties melee for vanguard will be less practical due to the time it takes to use it. That's not to say it will be useless, but I think that with even smarter AI, you'll need the speed of attack the shotguns offer to stay alive. For example, charge into 3 guys, take 2 out with shotgun then melee the last one instead of having to reload. This could all change pending on the new power though, so I guess we have to wait and see.

To be honest the only way I believe the Vanguard Melee would be more preferable to a shotgun blast is if it gave you some sort of temporary health boost, that way, if you get into a bad position, you'll have that plus the vanguard barrier boost and be a temporary tank status to fall back on for a few seconds. And on the subject of Melees, why is the Adept and Vanguard the only classes to not use the Omni-Blade? Seriously:
Engineers: Understandable, the only class to actually use their omni-tool as a primary power.
Infiltrators: they sneak around, so don't be suprised if the blade is invisible or something.
Soldiers: I guess they needed sheploo to show it off somehow?
Sentinel: Now this really annoys me, this class is half tech, half biotic, then why is it's melee attack 2 slightly smaller omni-blades? Tech armor I understand, this class is the tank class, made for stripping defences and being able to take shots at the same time, but then why the dual omniblades? You could have had a piotic punch like the  Adept but with electricity shooting out of your spare hand (stripping the shields of opponents in the surrounding area, completely the point of the sentinel), I am dissapoint<_<
Vanguard: From what I've heard it sounds like some sort of choke-slam thing, it doesn't really look like anyone will use it(unless of course you run out of shotgun rounds)
Adept: Effectively a blue falcon Punch, it does some decent damage, which is something the adept sure as hell needed considering 4/5 of it's powers were useless against protections.


/rant.

[blitzkkrieg]

Josh123914 wrote...

blitzkkrieg wrote...

I think on higher difficulties melee for vanguard will be less practical due to the time it takes to use it. That's not to say it will be useless, but I think that with even smarter AI, you'll need the speed of attack the shotguns offer to stay alive. For example, charge into 3 guys, take 2 out with shotgun then melee the last one instead of having to reload. This could all change pending on the new power though, so I guess we have to wait and see.

To be honest the only way I believe the Vanguard Melee would be more preferable to a shotgun blast is if it gave you some sort of temporary health boost, that way, if you get into a bad position, you'll have that plus the vanguard barrier boost and be a temporary tank status to fall back on for a few seconds. And on the subject of Melees, why is the Adept and Vanguard the only classes to not use the Omni-Blade? Seriously:
Engineers: Understandable, the only class to actually use their omni-tool as a primary power.
Infiltrators: they sneak around, so don't be suprised if the blade is invisible or something.
Soldiers: I guess they needed sheploo to show it off somehow?
Sentinel: Now this really annoys me, this class is half tech, half biotic, then why is it's melee attack 2 slightly smaller omni-blades? Tech armor I understand, this class is the tank class, made for stripping defences and being able to take shots at the same time, but then why the dual omniblades? You could have had a piotic punch like the  Adept but with electricity shooting out of your spare hand (stripping the shields of opponents in the surrounding area, completely the point of the sentinel), I am dissapoint<_<
Vanguard: From what I've heard it sounds like some sort of choke-slam thing, it doesn't really look like anyone will use it(unless of course you run out of shotgun rounds)
Adept: Effectively a blue falcon Punch, it does some decent damage, which is something the adept sure as hell needed considering 4/5 of it's powers were useless against protections.


/rant.

That's what I am saying. Or at least what I was trying to say.  And I also don't like the sentinel melee.  They're tech/biotic, so their melee should be too.  I like your idea, maybe even put the electricity on the punching hand so it's truely is a mix of biotic and tech

[The Spamming Troll]

its not like everything the sentinel does is half biotic and half tech. how come you dont want cryo blast to feature a biotic aspect to it?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 04 septembre 2011 - 06:22 .

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

its not like everything the sentinel does is half biotic and half tech. how come you dont want cryo blast to feature a biotic aspect to it?

Warping cryo....throw cryo....Lift  cryo?
So you want cryo to freeze and weaken...(which it already doe)s....Stagger and freeze ...(which it already does).... Or imoblize and freeze (which it already does)?

[blitzkkrieg]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

its not like everything the sentinel does is half biotic and half tech. how come you dont want cryo blast to feature a biotic aspect to it?

Sentinels have tech and biotic powers, they get some of each.  However, there is only one heavy melee animation (to my knowledge), so it should reflect the aspects of the class (tech and biotic).  And I'm just not particularly fond of the current heavy melee, just seems sort of bland.

[Josh123914]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

its not like everything the sentinel does is half biotic and half tech. how come you dont want cryo blast to feature a biotic aspect to it?

wow, you really do live up to your name don't you?
We are talking about class Exclusive powers (Tech Armor, Singularity, Combat Drone) and about how they should reflet the Biotic side more, not ones the Sentinel shares with other classes, the reason why we won't demand Cryo blast to have that is because we know fully well that Engineer's share that power as well. Doing so would be like, say, demanding Pull gives you an Adrenaline Burst because the half combat Vanguard uses it

Modifié par Josh123914, 04 septembre 2011 - 07:01 .

[littlezack]

You know, I wonder if the melee's have any special properties. Like - does the Adept melee work better on barriers, does the Engineer's melee work better on shields?

[blitzkkrieg]

littlezack wrote...

You know, I wonder if the melee's have any special properties. Like - does the Adept melee work better on barriers, does the Engineer's melee work better on shields?

Not to nitpick, but the engineer's melee would do well against armor.




But that would be cool.

Modifié par blitzkkrieg, 04 septembre 2011 - 07:48 .

[littlezack]

Actually, armor was what I meant. I get them confused sometimes.

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

its not like everything the sentinel does is half biotic and half tech. how come you dont want cryo blast to feature a biotic aspect to it?

Agreed.  The Sentinel's heavy melee looks fine.  People find the strangest things to gripe about.  This isn't ME1 anymore, where each class and squadmate has a certain tech, combat, or biotic percentage.  In ME2, the developers shifted away from that, choosing to define the classes individually as opposed to how they relate to some larger tech/combat/biotic spectrum.  As a result, we saw greater class differentiation and (in my opinion), much higher replay value.

[Kabanya101]

So does anyone know if the strength of your melee will scale up as you level up, or will it be defined as leveling up the "Fitness" skill that all classes share.

I read on the first page that the fitness skill will change depending on the class, but will be basically similar. And I thought that it might affect the strength of the omni blade. Right out of the gate I would like a strong melee, not because I play a Vanguard, but because I like to play a run and gun Soldier.