3405 réponses à ce sujet

[Kabanya101]

Biotic Sage wrote...

The global cooldown system isn't going anywhere at this stage in development.

I'm not against it anyway, but if I was it would be a good idea to start accepting it in order to avoid disappointment.  If you think about it too much you'll be so focused on it and irritated by it that you won't be able to focus on all of the great aspects of ME3.

They have already stated that Global Cooldown will return, but powers now when fully upgraded will have such a short cooldown that you won't even notice it. Like in some of the videos you see him fire off a concussive shot and there's no brackets for cooldown.

I didn't mind global cooldown, except for sometimes when I would be in a bind. Say you want to recharge shields immediately, so you activate tech armor, but you also need to heal your squadmates, so you have to wait.

[Someone With Mass]

Some classes will have powers like Amplification or Overpower that shortens the cooldown for all powers by quite a lot. Tech and biotic powers will have individual cooldowns while Amplification is active too.

There's really not much wrong with their current system.

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

That would be an interesting evolution choice.  Personally, I would opt for the lower cooldown choice every time, but I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in dealing biotic damage to protected enemies. 

It's more likely something that will improve the damage biotic powers do against protected enemies - that would make using those (evolved) powers a more viable option. A power such as Throw might inflict decent damage to the target regardless protection; it might even negate protection and damage the target's health bar; it's unlikely going to put the target on his/her arse - that's way too powerful. 

i think your perspective on the application of biotics is totally lame. im not using throw as a poor mans warp. throw is a CC ability, meaning i want throw, to THROW someone. im not saying i want throw to cause zero damage, it should, your getting hit by 2000 newtons of force, then hitting a wall with the same force. you should be a splatter fo your former self. but relying on throw to cause damage, is not the reason why throw is an ability.

throw putting somone on their ass is the definition of throw. why invest point in an ability like throw, and take multiple evolution paths, if your not doing anything more then a half second stagger? you want basic throw to accomplish the same thing as master throw??? the ONLY REASON throw staggers someone in ME2 is becasue the game is patheticly easy. i can only assume ME3s combat is gonig to be much more difficult warranting the nessecity for throw to actually throw someone.

really, why the hell would you want a game thats made in a way that throw WONT throw someone?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 08 septembre 2011 - 05:33 .

[MELTOR13]

If Throw gets to Throw people, all the time, regardless of protections, then other powers get that treatment too:

Neural Shock to stun people, all the time, regardless of protections
Cryo Blast to freeze people, all the time, regardless of protections
Pull to 'pull' people, all the time, regardless of protections
Shockwave to 'shockwave? (lol)' people, all the time, regardless of protections
AI Hacking to hack targets, all the time, regardless of protections
Concussive Shot to blast people, all the time, regardless of protections
Singularity to suck people in and make them floaty, all the time, regardless of protections
Slam to 'slam' people, all the time, regardless of protections
etc. etc. etc.

You can't ignore the protection system with one power and laugh while all the others deal with it. See: Stasis, ME2. Absurdly OP, compared to the other powers. Even without the glitchy damage bonus.

[The Spamming Troll]

there should be pros and cons to every evolution, not just evolving abilities to whipe out everything on screen. in ME3 that option should be the exact point of evolutions. if you want throw to work on protections, then evolve it that way. im not suggesteing throw work on protections with a 3 second cooldown. obviously there needs to be pros and cons. give the throw that works on protections a smaller impact, not a half second stagger, or tripple its cooldown to 9 seconds. if you like staggers then evolve throw to work every three seconds with a minor stagger.

[MELTOR13]

At that point, though, wouldn't it be rendered semi-useless? You'd be better off using Warp or Stasis or something, anything, really, would be better than waiting 9 seconds for a simple Throw. Unless Throw actually *kills* that enemy, instead of just tossing them around like ME1 and ME2 Throw does.

EDIT: Spamming, I do agree with you that evolutions should have pros and cons, and that some powerful upgrades may come at a cost. I'm just trying to figure out exactly how a power like Throw could be made to affect protected enemies in a way that doesn't make it either A) OP or redundant/useless

Modifié par MELTOR13, 08 septembre 2011 - 07:57 .

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

there should be pros and cons to every evolution, not just evolving abilities to whipe out everything on screen. in ME3 that option should be the exact point of evolutions. if you want throw to work on protections, then evolve it that way. im not suggesteing throw work on protections with a 3 second cooldown. obviously there needs to be pros and cons. give the throw that works on protections a smaller impact, not a half second stagger, or tripple its cooldown to 9 seconds. if you like staggers then evolve throw to work every three seconds with a minor stagger.

Their is pros and cons. The pro is the power works the way out of 2 choice you choose.The con is that you can't use the other choice you were offered after choose one of the two choices.

[blitzkkrieg]

MELTOR13 wrote...

If Throw gets to Throw people, all the time, regardless of protections, then other powers get that treatment too:

Neural Shock to stun people, all the time, regardless of protections
Cryo Blast to freeze people, all the time, regardless of protections
Pull to 'pull' people, all the time, regardless of protections
Shockwave to 'shockwave? (lol)' people, all the time, regardless of protections
AI Hacking to hack targets, all the time, regardless of protections
Concussive Shot to blast people, all the time, regardless of protections
Singularity to suck people in and make them floaty, all the time, regardless of protections
Slam to 'slam' people, all the time, regardless of protections
etc. etc. etc.

You can't ignore the protection system with one power and laugh while all the others deal with it. See: Stasis, ME2. Absurdly OP, compared to the other powers. Even without the glitchy damage bonus.

But stasis was so much fun!  Escpecially when the enemies got warped into the ground and your teamates would just shoot the ground. 

But back on topic, I think that making a brief period of ignoring protection as part of overpower's final evolution would still make biotics a tad more powerful.  I would even be content if overpower let biotics only mildly effect the enemy (like throw knocks them down but doesn't send them flying away, or pull makes them fall over in the direction it hit them from).  And I am certainly not suggesting that everything bypasses protection all the time (even though I loved that in ME1).

[MELTOR13]

@blitzkkrieg, I was just using that post as a kind of example of what would need to be done if we were to allow one power the ability to completely bypass protections without others being equipped to do the same. Stasis is one of the best powers in ME2 because it trivializes gameplay, compared to other powers. I dont want that in ME3.

[Ace of Dawn]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

there should be pros and cons to every evolution, not just evolving abilities to whipe out everything on screen. in ME3 that option should be the exact point of evolutions. if you want throw to work on protections, then evolve it that way. im not suggesteing throw work on protections with a 3 second cooldown. obviously there needs to be pros and cons. give the throw that works on protections a smaller impact, not a half second stagger, or tripple its cooldown to 9 seconds. if you like staggers then evolve throw to work every three seconds with a minor stagger.

The Spamming Troll, I have two questions for you, for which I am sure you have likely answered to some degree, but searching for them would be difficult, and they are relevant at the topic at hand...

(Before anything, if this comes off as an attack or anything, I apoligize. I respect your thoughts on the matter. I never truly got into Adepts, so my opinions on the issue are minimal. I simply wish to know your thoughts on things. )

Question 1:

It appears that all classes have some sort of ability that you activate and adds passive bonuses to you (I haven't kept too much on these, but iirc, Sentinels have an ability that cuts down on cooldowns). With that in mind, would you object to biotics working exactly as they did in Mass Effect 2, but this ability enhancing (or possibly being capable of evolving into) a bonus which allows the bypass of protections for the duration of the effect. It would, in my opinion, add to the mastery of Adepts (being exclusive to them), and make biotics viable but not outright overpowered.

Question 2:

You are given gameplay creative lead, and are asked how you would work the biotics system in the game. You are in the position to change all aspects of the combat mechanics. What would you do to make biotics more viable in your eyes? I am welcome to two answers here it better suits you: What would change? Or what would you do? The first one basically keeps you with ME2's mechanics, so it would be small tweaks and changes. The second is if you just decided to outright change many things in the gamplay (I know you dislike thermal clips as they are, so I think a significant change like that would work better in the second choice).

I often see you posting your thoughts and opinions, but rarely ever see anything specifically answering these (granted, I don't personally follow you so that may be why )

Thanks for the answers!

[The Spamming Troll]

^overpower seems to be stepping in the right direction for sure. we dont know much of anything about it, but i can only assume its gonig to help my adept, play more like an OP/godly adept. which may satiate my appetite for biotics enough in ME3.

your second question would take me way to long, and prolly waste your time with my awesome ideas. maybe ill reply to that a little later.

MELTOR13 wrote...

At that point, though, wouldn't it be rendered semi-useless? You'd be better off using Warp or Stasis or something, anything, really, would be better than waiting 9 seconds for a simple Throw. Unless Throw actually *kills* that enemy, instead of just tossing them around like ME1 and ME2 Throw does.

EDIT: Spamming, I do agree with you that evolutions should have pros and cons, and that some powerful upgrades may come at a cost. I'm just trying to figure out exactly how a power like Throw could be made to affect protected enemies in a way that doesn't make it either A) OP or redundant/useless

id assume stasis wont be the same in ME3 as it is in ME2. i hope not. id rather have the option to choose which abilities work on defenses and which ones dont. not just get an ability 6 months after the games released to satisfy my cravings for doing some meaningfull CC. comapring spamming throw in ME2 on protected enemies, to using throw to throw someone with protections might result in the same type of CC. you either stagger them a few times with multiple uses of throw, or you use one throw to knock them out for the same amount of time, but your out of abilities for a longer time. i think its a fair trade off, right?

not every ability is going to be able to be put to its highest evolution. so warp might not actually be as effective as your fully evolved throw. thers a con build into the system that will limit exactly how awesome each ability can be becasue we only have so many points to spend.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 08 septembre 2011 - 08:26 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Lol @ anyone who spams Throw on protected enemies in ME2 to stagger them multiple times for CC purposes and wants a comparable alternative for their doing-it-wrong playstyle in ME3.

[Someone With Mass]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Lol @ anyone who spams Throw on protected enemies in ME2 to stagger them multiple times for CC purposes and wants a comparable alternative for their doing-it-wrong playstyle in ME3.

The funny thing is that it's almost a reality.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 08 septembre 2011 - 08:51 .

[Biotic Sage]

Well guys, I'm sorry there hasn't been any ME3 news in the past 2 weeks. I've checked pretty much every day, and there's still no revelations about new powers or power evolutions. Hang in there, and please bring any updates that you find out about to my attention.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Someone With Mass]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Well guys, I'm sorry there hasn't been any ME3 news in the past 2 weeks. I've checked pretty much every day, and there's still no revelations about new powers or power evolutions. Hang in there, and please bring any updates that you find out about to my attention.

There is a convention next week, though. Maybe we'll get something new then.

[Biotic Sage]

Someone With Mass wrote...

There is a convention next week, though. Maybe we'll get something new then.

I won't get my hopes up, but it certainly would be nice.

[Gromnir]

MELTOR13 wrote...

If Throw gets to Throw people, all the time, regardless of protections, then other powers get that treatment too:

Neural Shock to stun people, all the time, regardless of protections
Cryo Blast to freeze people, all the time, regardless of protections
Pull to 'pull' people, all the time, regardless of protections
Shockwave to 'shockwave? (lol)' people, all the time, regardless of protections
AI Hacking to hack targets, all the time, regardless of protections
Concussive Shot to blast people, all the time, regardless of protections
Singularity to suck people in and make them floaty, all the time, regardless of protections
Slam to 'slam' people, all the time, regardless of protections
etc. etc. etc.

You can't ignore the protection system with one power and laugh while all the others deal with it. See: Stasis, ME2. Absurdly OP, compared to the other powers. Even without the glitchy damage bonus.

The choices don't have to be all or none:
Powers shouldn't simply ignore protections, but that doesn't mean they should be worthless either (ok, they do a small amount of damage and stagger).  Partial effects:

Neural shock = stun duration reduced by protections
Cryo blast = slow instead of freeze, looks like they're already doing this for cryo ammo
AI hacking = shorter hack duration
Throw = reduced newton force, heavier enemies shrug it off and lighter enemies are knocked down instead of launched

If partial effects were implemented, they should be  dependent on how many layers also.  Maybe having armor underneath the shields really would prevent the partial effects,  but an enemy with only armor or only shields would be subject to the partial effect.

[blitzkkrieg]

Gromnir wrote...

The choices don't have to be all or none:
Powers shouldn't simply ignore protections, but that doesn't mean they should be worthless either (ok, they do a small amount of damage and stagger).  Partial effects:

Neural shock = stun duration reduced by protections
Cryo blast = slow instead of freeze, looks like they're already doing this for cryo ammo
AI hacking = shorter hack duration
Throw = reduced newton force, heavier enemies shrug it off and lighter enemies are knocked down instead of launched

If partial effects were implemented, they should be  dependent on how many layers also.  Maybe having armor underneath the shields really would prevent the partial effects,  but an enemy with only armor or only shields would be subject to the partial effect.

That seems like another good way to create a little more options for powers that before didnt go through defenses.  And I have a feeling that they are doing what you said for cryo blast since it is already evident in cryo ammo as well.

[Biotic Sage]

blitzkkrieg wrote...

That seems like another good way to create a little more options for powers that before didnt go through defenses.  And I have a feeling that they are doing what you said for cryo blast since it is already evident in cryo ammo as well.

I have that same feeling.  We might even be seeing an increase in % slowdown as we progress through the evolutions of cryo blast.  IMHO, cryo blast was the most useless power of ME2, so there is plenty of room for improvement.

[No Snakes Alive]

Biotic Sage wrote...

blitzkkrieg wrote...

That seems like another good way to create a little more options for powers that before didnt go through defenses.  And I have a feeling that they are doing what you said for cryo blast since it is already evident in cryo ammo as well.

I have that same feeling.  We might even be seeing an increase in % slowdown as we progress through the evolutions of cryo blast.  IMHO, cryo blast was the most useless power of ME2, so there is plenty of room for improvement.

I very much beg to differ. My Engineer and Sentinel were both heavily reliant on Cryo Blast and not surprisingly I died maybe once or twice between the two playthroughs. There's really no better CC power for a CQC Shep, since them falling down frozen behind cover isn't really an issue when you're running up on them anyway and it only increases the damage you deal.

I've seen videos of others who made great work of Cryo as well (including a great Cryo/Throw Sentinel build who used the Mattock to strip defenses and CC'd everyone with Cryo before hurling them into the wall and shattering them).

It's a quick recharge CC power that leaves enemies literally frozen and susceptible to extra damage for a long time. Everyone always says why not just shoot them or kill them when their defenses are down? Well, maybe because I'd rather take a split second to freeze them and strip the next mook's defenses than just focus on one enemy at a time?

It definitely seems like an impractical power at first but when you start utilizing it properly on close-range aggro builds it is an absolute life-saver. Plus it's just cool as hell.

Edit: No pun intended on that "cool" remark lol.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 09 septembre 2011 - 11:01 .

[blitzkkrieg]

Biotic Sage wrote...

blitzkkrieg wrote...

That seems like another good way to create a little more options for powers that before didnt go through defenses.  And I have a feeling that they are doing what you said for cryo blast since it is already evident in cryo ammo as well.

I have that same feeling.  We might even be seeing an increase in % slowdown as we progress through the evolutions of cryo blast.  IMHO, cryo blast was the most useless power of ME2, so there is plenty of room for improvement.

I don't think it was the most useless, due to reasons No Snakes just gave, but I always felt it was a little underwhelming.  I have definitely seen people utilize it amazingly, but I never really got into it, although that might be partially due to the fact that you had to unlock another ability first.  I will definitely use it and Cryo ammo more in ME3 (didn't use it for basically the same reason as cryo blast, but again I have it seen it utilized very well), expecially with the extra quirks they're getting.

And speaking of cryo blast, we are still waiting for the engineer footage right?  Cause I am actually interested now to see it's evolutions.

[Someone With Mass]

Cryo Ammo/Blast is pretty good, even if they're not doing extra damage against protection. And since they'll be able to slow enemies down in ME3 even if they do have protection, I think I'll use it more now. I might even pick up the Avalanche some more.

[MELTOR13]

using Cryo to slow enemies down would be like using Throw to stun enemies....it's not worth it, except for the occasional use when you really just need a quick breather.

[lazuli]

MELTOR13 wrote...

using Cryo to slow enemies down would be like using Throw to stun enemies....it's not worth it, except for the occasional use when you really just need a quick breather.

It's an effect that should also be on the ammo power, though.  So Cryo Ammo will slow protected enemies.  Squad Cryo Ammo just got even more desirable.

In any event, Cryo Blast has such a short cooldown (even for Mordin) that I can see it getting a lot of use, even against protected foes.

[MELTOR13]

Cryo Ammo is a different story, because it's basically a passive power. Cryo Blast, however, takes up an active cooldown, and if people think that using Throw to stun an enemy is stupid, why would it be any different to waste a cooldown (that's longer than Throw) just to slow an enemy down? Unless of course it stops them in their tracks.

EDIT: REALLY want BioWare to get their crap together and get that Engi demo out. 

Modifié par MELTOR13, 09 septembre 2011 - 02:09 .