3405 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

implodinggoat wrote...
ME2 biotics definitely weren't useless; but the Adept did feel underpowered on higher difficulties.

I think having Biotic powers like pull or throw be able to slightly stagger enemies with protection is alright; but you should definitely need to lower their protections to get the full effect out of most of your biotics.  Adding enemies who have weaknesses to biotics like the Cerberus troopers who have the Riot shields you can pull out of their hands was definitely a good idea and I hope we see more enemies like that in ME3.

Agreed to pretty much all of that. Biotics should have some effect, but they shouldn't be able to fully lift a shielded enemy either. And the shields being pullable is clever usage on Bioware's part.

[implodinggoat]

lightsnow13 wrote...

It really does seem like the adept is getting the shaft if everyone else is getting a super ability. Vanguards get nova, engineer gets turret, sentinel gets a butt load - lift grenades, super revamp to shield. Even soldiers are getting a much improved CS. I just hope the adepts ability to do combos is really worth it at this point..

Well Singularity is still a badass power and while the biotic grenade isn't particularly creative it does give you an ability which doesn't share your cooldown which is handy.

I'm really curious about the Adept's Biotic Mastery passive; because that may really be what makes the class exceptional.   Its possible that the Adept's true strength may come less from the variety of abilities at their disposal and more from the passive bonuses the class gets to the damage, duration, and cooldown of their powers.

[No Snakes Alive]

MELTOR13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

does ANYONE apreciate the thought of 'biotic grenade' at all???

idk how they cant find something that makes sense for he adept yet. its really dissapointing.

I like the idea of Adepts 'charging' regular grenades with biotic energy and then having them explode all fantastical-like, ala Gambit. 

I mean....why DOESN'T that sound cool. That may not be the specific description or whatevs, but that's how I can imagine it in my mind, and that's what counts. 

Exactly! Brilliant idea with the whole Gambit analogy. All people need to do is use a little imagination to put things into context in ways that work for them and those things will go from not making sense to being absurdly awesome.

I mean how many more straight up Biotic powers can we really ask for? We got the physics department covered with Lifts and Pulls and Throws and all that. How about making Soldiers with their puny Frag Grenades blush at the sheer power of your Bioticsly charged hurricane-like force grenades? That's badass and fits if you just put a little thought into it (after all, every single class you can play is still COMMANDER Shepard. You think grenades don't fit the class but what about the character? Don't forget Shepard's history.

[MELTOR13]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

I like the idea of Adepts 'charging' regular grenades with biotic energy and then having them explode all fantastical-like, ala Gambit. 

I mean....why DOESN'T that sound cool. That may not be the specific description or whatevs, but that's how I can imagine it in my mind, and that's what counts. 

Exactly! Brilliant idea with the whole Gambit analogy. All people need to do is use a little imagination to put things into context in ways that work for them and those things will go from not making sense to being absurdly awesome.

I mean how many more straight up Biotic powers can we really ask for? We got the physics department covered with Lifts and Pulls and Throws and all that. How about making Soldiers with their puny Frag Grenades blush at the sheer power of your Bioticsly charged hurricane-like force grenades? That's badass and fits if you just put a little thought into it (after all, every single class you can play is still COMMANDER Shepard. You think grenades don't fit the class but what about the character? Don't forget Shepard's history.

In the complainers' defense, I will state that if I had it my way, I would have liked to have seen Overpower make it through to the final product. I really liked the idea of AdeptShep just going full-on rage mode and going all Super Saiyan with his biotics for a short period of time. 

That being said...if the guys at BioWare couldn't get it to work, they couldn't get it to work. I thought that ME2 was balanced very well, minus a few hiccups here and there, so I trust that they just couldn't get Overpower to work as they wanted. Considering all that upgrades that the other powers are getting, I think I'll be fine without it. And hopefully biotic grenades end up being as cool as they sound in my head. 

Modifié par MELTOR13, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:22 .

[AVPen]

I can't recall whether or not Fathom was gonna be looking into this one, but since we're on the subject, here's what I found for the evolution Ranks of the Adept's Biotic Mastery passive:


Biotic Mastery
2nd Rank
Influence/Damage   Adds x% to power damage and force bonus. Adds x% to reputation bonus.  

3rd Rank
Influence/Capacity   Adds x points to weight capacity bonus. Adds x% to reputation bonus. 

4th Rank
Biotic Aura (aka Influence/Squad??)   Increase the force and damage of your henchmen biotic powers by x% and increase Reputation by x%.
OR
Recharge   The recharge time of your powers is reduced by x%.

5th Rank
Combo Mastery   Reduces the recharge time of all powers by x% whenever you get a biotic combo.
OR
Barrier Mastery   Your barrier increases the damage and force of your biotic powers by up to x% for a full barrier.

6th Rank
Capacity/Damage   Adds x points to weight capacity bonus and x% to power damage and force bonus.
OR
Squad Powers   Increases the force and damage of henchman powers by x%.

Modifié par AVPen, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:39 .

[implodinggoat]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Seems pretty good..I think it could have potential. But, don't biotics not really do much damage? Besides warp? I suppose throw is able to do damage if speced for it.

What's the barrier mastery though? Is barrier the one defensive power that lasts forever?

Warp, Shockwave, Singularity and throw all do damage.

In this case I think Barrier refers to the barriers you always have up in place of shields since the Barrier power isn't a default power for Adepts.   Doesn't seem like a very good idea to me though since it encourages you not to take damage in order to be at full power.   If anything I'd say the inverse would be better an evolution that makes your biotic powers more powerful as your barriers drop.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:57 .

[MELTOR13]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Seems pretty good..I think it could have potential. But, don't biotics not really do much damage? Besides warp? I suppose throw is able to do damage if speced for it.

What's the barrier mastery though? Is barrier the one defensive power that lasts forever?

It sounds like to me that barrier mastery increases damage and force for all powers while you have full "shields" (barriers, for the biotic classes). 

So, the higher your shields/barrier is, the more power and force your biotics will do.

Unless they are granting Adepts Barrier (the power) from the get-go. In which case it sounds like it is a specialization for that specific power, kinda like ME1 had specializations for Barrier and Stasis.

Modifié par MELTOR13, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:56 .

[AVPen]

MELTOR13 wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

Seems pretty good..I think it could have potential. But, don't biotics not really do much damage? Besides warp? I suppose throw is able to do damage if speced for it.

What's the barrier mastery though? Is barrier the one defensive power that lasts forever?

It sounds like to me that barrier mastery increases damage and force for all powers while you have full "shields" (barriers, for the biotic classes).  

That's sort of how I'm interpreting the Evolution as well - its description is worded slightly funny, but since it's listed under Biotic Mastery's 5th Rank in direct contrast to "Combo Mastery", I'm assuming that for Barrier Mastery either:

1. Increases your power damage/force to a certain percent if you have a full barrier. (my personal bet on what it does)
OR
2. Increases power damage/force by a certain percentage based on how high or low your barrier is. (kinda unlikely, in my view)

Modifié par AVPen, 17 janvier 2012 - 11:06 .

[Last Vizard]

andy69156915 wrote...

If biotics were able to be replicated by non-organics, I can promise you that the heretic Geth would certainly have developed it by now to help them at defeat organic races. There's no way they wouldn't weaponize biotic power if they had that option. The fact that they haven't tells me it can't be done.

And before someone says husks can, I will remind you that they are still part organic. Without the organic parts left, they couldn't do it. Geth have nothing organic about them.

this guy ^ and TobyHasEyes have good point, I think throwing in a "biotic" Grenade has actually made things worse lore wise because now they have to explain how this works and why the Geth are the most powerful biotics now... over the thousands of years the ME universe has had biotics why only now are they able to weaponise biotic abilities? will Shepard and crew even be shocked by this leap in tech or will they act like its always been this way?

I don't want Adept to be more powerful than the other classes, I want them to be Equal in "total damage dealt" and "level clear time",  I finished my second playthrough on Insanity as Adept, then I though I'll try something totally different and played as Soldier... I was prett shocked by the differences in how fast I could clear out the levels.

Switching from overpower to generic grenade just seems totally lazy and that they don't care about the Adept class at all, for them they'll be happy as long as its possible to finish the game as Adept.  I'll just finish by saying I hope Adepts aren't glass soldiers again and that from the looks of ME as an RPG trilogy the main character will finish the game Weaker than when he started.

[The Spamming Troll]

MELTOR13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

does ANYONE apreciate the thought of 'biotic grenade' at all???

idk how they cant find something that makes sense for he adept yet. its really dissapointing.

I like the idea of Adepts 'charging' regular grenades with biotic energy and then having them explode all fantastical-like, ala Gambit. 

I mean....why DOESN'T that sound cool. That may not be the specific description or whatevs, but that's how I can imagine it in my mind, and that's what counts. 

because i can see the future.....

biotic grenade will be more destructive and more of a CC ability then any of the standard adepts abilities, other then singularity ofcorse. how do i know this? becasue i played ME2, and experiecned biowares implementation of stasis.

is biotic grenade better then warp? is it going to be used differntly then warp? is its CC capabilities going to be better then throw and pull? why the hell is it a grenade? what does a grenade have to do with a class built SOLELY around the fact that its a pure CC class, with no other options. 

say biotic grenade outloud once. just say "biotic grenade." now, do you instantly feel like you just said something really really dumb???

the adept doesnt need grenades, or more weapons, it needs its abilities to be made better. plain and simple. id rather have a crapily implemented overpower, then a totally unrelated ability like grenades. what are grenades going to do for me that help me accomplish being an adept?

alteast its not another redundant ability like throw/pull/slam/shockwave/prolly singularity too. almost any other bonus power biotic ability IS BETTER then biotic grenade.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 17 janvier 2012 - 11:52 .

[The Spamming Troll]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

does ANYONE apreciate the thought of 'biotic grenade' at all???

idk how they cant find something that makes sense for he adept yet. its really dissapointing.

I like the idea of Adepts 'charging' regular grenades with biotic energy and then having them explode all fantastical-like, ala Gambit. 

I mean....why DOESN'T that sound cool. That may not be the specific description or whatevs, but that's how I can imagine it in my mind, and that's what counts. 

Exactly! Brilliant idea with the whole Gambit analogy. All people need to do is use a little imagination to put things into context in ways that work for them and those things will go from not making sense to being absurdly awesome.

I mean how many more straight up Biotic powers can we really ask for? We got the physics department covered with Lifts and Pulls and Throws and all that. How about making Soldiers with their puny Frag Grenades blush at the sheer power of your Bioticsly charged hurricane-like force grenades? That's badass and fits if you just put a little thought into it (after all, every single class you can play is still COMMANDER Shepard. You think grenades don't fit the class but what about the character? Don't forget Shepard's history.

here we go again, no snakes!

its because im not playing an adept, to be a soldier with grenades and guns. im playing an adept to wreak havoc with biotics.

does bioware even remember what biotics are for??? certainly it is NOT for grenades.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 17 janvier 2012 - 11:53 .

[The Spamming Troll]

implodinggoat wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Really, having biotics having a weaker but still useful effect on shielded and armored enemies is the best comprimise between biotics being unstoppable in ME1 and nearly useless in ME2. Adepts would be good again, just not broken like they were in ME1.

ME2 biotics definitely weren't useless; but the Adept did feel underpowered on higher difficulties.

I think having Biotic powers like pull or throw be able to slightly stagger enemies with protection is alright; but you should definitely need to lower their protections to get the full effect out of most of your biotics.   Adding enemies who have weaknesses to biotics like the Cerberus troopers who have the Riot shields you can pull out of their hands was definitely a good idea and I hope we see more enemies like that in ME3.

id only agree with you if barriers, shields, and armor LESSENED your weapons fire as well. as in id like your soldiers weapons to become impotent when dealing with, what are the called again, oh yeah, enemy protections. youd think the designers of barriers/shields/armor accidentally all stumbled across the fact that each one negates bitics and tech abilities. enemy protections are literally a layer of 'nothing to do with anything' honky add on to make the game harder, which in reality is only effects 1 class of 6.

i mean wouldnt it be great playing a soldier, and having sheilds, barriers and armor mean the same thing to the soldier class, as it does to the adept class?

im about ot start raging. if i havent started already.

ufortunately, the gaurdian is the ONLY example of biotics working on "something."

i gaurantee the phantom or sword ninja is going to be the stupidest enemy in the game. you heard it here first.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 18 janvier 2012 - 12:20 .

[MELTOR13]

I had a long paragraph written up in reply, but I've been down this road, and I know it's an exercise in futility. So I'll just let you sharpen that axe some more, Spamming.

[The Spamming Troll]

MELTOR13 wrote...

I had a long paragraph written up in reply, but I've been down this road, and I know it's an exercise in futility. So I'll just let you sharpen that axe some more, Spamming.

fine, lets not argue about mass effect!

wheres no snakes alive?

[MELTOR13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

I had a long paragraph written up in reply, but I've been down this road, and I know it's an exercise in futility. So I'll just let you sharpen that axe some more, Spamming.

fine, lets not argue about mass effect!

wheres no snakes alive?

hehe.   

The whole 'biotic charging' of a grenade at least sounds a LITTLE BIT cool, right?? I mean, c'mon. Throw me a bone. 

[Dylan Shepard]

Thought of the grenades in general doesn't seem too bad, only it could be a weapon instead of a freakin power and be modded at stations, anyone agree?
The grenade could still be assigned to the power wheel...or i don't know, just seems they could have put grenade and made a **** load of mods for it.

[The Spamming Troll]

AVPen wrote...

I can't recall whether or not Fathom was gonna be looking into this one, but since we're on the subject, here's what I found for the evolution Ranks of the Adept's Biotic Mastery passive:


Biotic Mastery
2nd Rank
Influence/Damage   Adds x% to power damage and force bonus. Adds x% to reputation bonus.  

3rd Rank
Influence/Capacity   Adds x points to weight capacity bonus. Adds x% to reputation bonus. 

4th Rank
Biotic Aura (aka Influence/Squad??)   Increase the force and damage of your henchmen biotic powers by x% and increase Reputation by x%.
OR
Recharge   The recharge time of your powers is reduced by x%.

5th Rank
Combo Mastery   Reduces the recharge time of all powers by x% whenever you get a biotic combo.
OR
Barrier Mastery   Your barrier increases the damage and force of your biotic powers by up to x% for a full barrier.

6th Rank
Capacity/Damage   Adds x points to weight capacity bonus and x% to power damage and force bonus.
OR
Squad Powers   Increases the force and damage of henchman powers by x%.

oh man. these kindof suck.

leveling up largely promotes reputation, weapons, and biotic squadmates. nothing im interested in other then the standard +damage/-cooldown boosts. biotic aura/squad powers would have been nice in ME2 with all those biotic squadmates, but ME3 seems like my choice in squad isnt always going to be my choice. would be nice if some of overpowers features could show up in the adepts passive. i mean youd expect a big different between a rookie adept, compared to a mastered adept? but the boosts were gaining largely only effect enemies that dont have protections. which doesnt need improving. biotics already are effective on unprotected enemies. whopdie doo. seriousy. whoopdie friggin doo.

wtf, i better just leave now.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 18 janvier 2012 - 12:40 .

[The Spamming Troll]

MELTOR13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

I had a long paragraph written up in reply, but I've been down this road, and I know it's an exercise in futility. So I'll just let you sharpen that axe some more, Spamming.

fine, lets not argue about mass effect!

wheres no snakes alive?

hehe.   

The whole 'biotic charging' of a grenade at least sounds a LITTLE BIT cool, right?? I mean, c'mon. Throw me a bone. 

i mean sure, its fine as a biotic ability. every biotic ability is "cool."

but, its very easy to see why the adept is all wrong. take a peak at the list of ALL biotic powers in ME3. what id like for you to do is write down the ones that interest you on a peice of paper, then compare that peice of paper to biowares version of the adept........what if the adepts weapon, was choice???

i dont even know what im getting at anymore.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 18 janvier 2012 - 12:54 .

[MELTOR13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i mean sure, its fine as a biotic ability. every biotic ability is "cool."

but, its very easy to see why the adept is all wrong. take a peak at the list of ALL biotic powers in ME3. what id like for you to do is write down the ones that interest you on a peice of paper, then compare that peice of paper to biowares version of the adept........

i dont even know what im getting at anymore.

I don't either...let's just wait it out until we can actually see them in action? You may be pleasantly surprised. The whole 'Don't judge a book by it's cover' adage rings true here. 

[implodinggoat]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

id only agree with you if barriers, shields, and armor LESSENED your weapons fire as well. as in id like your soldiers weapons to become impotent when dealing with, what are the called again, oh yeah, enemy protections. youd think the designers of barriers/shields/armor accidentally all stumbled across the fact that each one negates bitics and tech abilities. enemy protections are literally a layer of 'nothing to do with anything' honky add on to make the game harder, which in reality is only effects 1 class of 6.

Protection stops the crowd control powers of all classes including my Soldier's concussive shot and the secondary effects of my ammo powers as well as my squad's powers.  Furthermore Warp, Overload, Incincerate, Reave and Energy drain all exist as means of stripping defenses to allow you to use your crowd control abilities.

Now I'll agree that protection is more of a pain in the ass to crowd control focused classes particularly the Adept; but it definitely beats the alternative of the ME1 system where Biotics allowed you to instantly incapacitate any enemy on the battlefield and besides if that's the experience you really want then you can always turn the difficulty down so that most enemies don't have defenses.

The Adept does need more options against enemies with protection and hopefully the ME3 version of biotic powers will provide those options; but going back to the semi omnipotence of the ME1 Adept isn't the answer.

[Omega-202]

So, despite all of this time, Spamming Troll still doesn't realize that NO class is supposed to be functional without using their guns and that every class was and is being designed to be used with guns and powers in conjunction.

Adepts will never be competitive or possibly even viable without relying on shooting. No class is. Accept that.

And don't you dare start on "But that's not the way it should be". BS and "who-cares?" is all I can say to that.

[XDMMX]

Just as a reminder, Adepts in ME1 couldn't kill people without the use of guns, in fact Adepts in ME1 couldn't take anyone down without the use of guns, atleast on Insanity that is, but they could accomplish there task of combat control.

In ME2 the Adept could actually clear a room without ever firing a shot, although it did take a wile. The problem was that the Adept in ME2 was worthless at combat control, bye the time you stripped protections, it was faster to just kill them with a shot to the head from your pistol.

Oh and I love your signature implodinggoat

Modifié par XDMMX, 18 janvier 2012 - 01:59 .