3405 réponses à ce sujet

[Last Vizard]

MELTOR wrote...

Well, for your sake, Vizard, I hope that the Adept in ME3 exceeds your expectations.

Not my sake, for all Adept players.  I have a dream, a dream where all classes are equal.  My expectations for ME3 are fairly low considering everything however I look forward to the story and how it concludes.

ME 3 will be a great game for most however It just feels like starting with ME2 Adepts have been a second thought.  Soldier Shep is definately the greatest soldier the galaxy will ever know however Adept Shep is average... - oh, Shep was a tiny bit stronger than L2 implants even though he had L3, ok cool.... wait he isn't comparative to the Soldier Shep when it comes to being the greatest Adept in the galaxy

ME3 tri-winning list
1st. great story (check) - why did Sov commit suicide by 5th fleet though?

2nd. high level cap and indepth skill trees and class customistion (not great) - Adept class continues to be weak overall after the design change from ME1. It even looks like the Devs can barely bother with the Adept class.

3rd. gameplay mechanics (good) - Thermal "ammo" clips make no tactical sense, their explanation isn't accurate of RL military views on whats important (M16 is a semi-automatic weapon, three round burst fire and was the workhorse of the greatest military on Earth) - I've posted many times the weakness supply lines are and how easy they can be broken especially in a high mobility world like ME universe. (yeah you "might" be able to put more rounds out however once I hit your factories I'll have the only working guns) PS. large military engagements happen after the air war, so your supply lines/production facilities are getting hit first.

On topic:
Is a biotic grenade really okay with Adept players? - not people who play one playthrough as Adept but those that focus on Adept, after trying other classes

Is my opinion biased? - yes ofcourse it is because Adept is my favourite however I'm not telling people their favourite class should be weak.

Is your opinion biased due to ME1 where Adepts were a little more OverPowered than your favourite class?


Guess people will just say "I don't play Adept so it doesn't matter to me" or "your just a whiner, with no grounds to be annoyed with BW" or "lets wait and see, although if things are as bad as they seem to be, well I'll still defend what BW did to Adepts". 

[Last Vizard]

andy69156915 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
Why did it need to be a grenade? why not something like "unstable singularity" or something like that? could have the same effect as the grenade and it wouldn't screw the lore up or laugh in the face of Adept players.

How does it screw the lore up, and if it does, worse then warp ammo already did? It seems just like warp ammo, putting your biotic power into a weapon in a way that your biotics work through the weapon as a medium for extra effects and powers. Put biotics into weapon=warp ammo, put biotics into grenade=biotic grenade.

I think storing biotic energy into a grenade and it exploding with all that energy when it detonates makes MORE sense then warp ammo did.

thats true, both are flawed.  mind if I ask what your favourite class is?

[andy6915]

Last Vizard wrote...
thats true, both are flawed.  mind if I ask what your favourite class is?

Vanguard, then soldier. I like classes that are decently durable, good weapon varaiety, and most like what you would expect an Alliance soldier on the front lines to be like. Because of that, I like classes that are soldier-like. Also, for role play and gameplay purposes, I always select assault rifles for my vanguard characters in both ME1 and ME2 (as a bonus ability in the first game, and at the spoiler ship in ME2), because someone that similar to a soldier should be trained in the use of assualt rifles, and should use them. That, and it makes cutscenes and gameplay consistent, so that when a scene shows my biotic vanguard Shepard using an assault rifle in a cutscene, I actually can use one.

Modifié par andy69156915, 18 janvier 2012 - 09:50 .

[Last Vizard]

andy69156915 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
thats true, both are flawed.  mind if I ask what your favourite class is?

Vanguard, then soldier. I like classes that are decently durable, good weapon varaiety, and most like what you would expect an Alliance soldier on the front lines to be like. Because of that, I like classes that are soldier-like. Also, for role play and gameplay purposes, I always select assault rifles for my vanguard characters in both ME1 and ME2 (as a bonus ability in the first game, and at the spoiler ship in ME2), because someone that similar to a soldier should be trained in the use of assualt rifles, and should use them. That, and it makes cutscenes and gameplay consistent, so that when a scene shows my biotic vanguard Shepard using an assault rifle in a cutscene, I actually can use one.

Yeah, I find the AR to be the best for most classes, my Adepts had to spoiler before I could use one... made Adept more viable then.

[Biotic Sage]

MELTOR wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

^ I'm sure they have their reasons, I'm understanding about that. Personally I just think the concept for Overpower was much more interesting than the Biotic Grenade concept. If they couldn't get it to work, then that's a shame. I can't pretend to know how much effort they put in trying to get it to work so no judgments there. What I can judge though is Biotic Grenade is not to my taste because I don't think it fits the Adept's style. I think they could've come up with a new, better biotic power than that. I know a lot of people on the forums have thought of some cool ideas.  But again, it's a matter of taste, so it's only my subjective opinion that Biotic Grenade sucks as a power.

A power like a biotic grenade may be simple to implement but still have some really cool effects and some depth (think Flashbang grenade from ME2).

My main point is I don't like the style of Biotic Grenade as a power.  Maybe it will be a useful power, maybe it will be the most useful, that's not really my point.  I just don't feel like a grenade fits with the Adept's style, since they are not weapons or gear based, but biotic energy based; and not half biotic energy and the rest weapons like Vanguard, they are the only strictly biotic based class.  And yeah everybody has to use weapons to a degree, it's a shooter, but their power set is biotically based.

If the effects of Biotic Grenade made the most sense for implementation and balancing, then I'm fine with the power; I just think it shouldn't be a physical grenade in terms of aesthetics.  I hope that clarifies my previous statements and you see what I'm saying here.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 18 janvier 2012 - 11:32 .

[Ahglock]

MELTOR wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

 I'm not trying to offend anyone, but it's easy to sit here and be an armchair-designer. To sit here and call them lazy is simply ignorant. 

I didn't call them lazy,  I just said that I don't understand why they couldn't get Overpower to balance out.   There are numerous reasons why it might not have worked out.  I just wish that the devs had given a specific reason/reasons for why it was cut rather than just saying "it didn't work out the way we wanted it to".

The alterations they've made to all the other classes sound great,  I'm just not particularly impressed with what I've seen of the Adept.   That said I haven't played the game so my opinion is highly speculative.

Wasn't really pointing my post towards you....there are, um, others here on the forums who have stronger feelings towards issues like this. I wish we had some more specific answers as well, and we may very well get them eventually, but I am not going to sit here and act like I have all the answers. 

That's all I was getting at. Again, not necessarily pointed at anyone in particular...just wanted to note that the whole system is far more intricate than 'do this, fix that, this is stupid'. The, uh, "fans" here tend to forget that sometimes. 

Lazy might be the wrong term, but I don't think they gave it their all on this power.  I think they put all their eggs into the overpower basket and when that didn't work out they just went with the first idea.  Which given that they had just a few months until the game came out isn't a terrible thing to do, but the idea they went with should have been a biotic power not a gear power so the adept still played like an adept.  Giving the adept a grenade and slapping the name biotic on it is about as valid as giving the soldier a biotic power and calling it soldier pull.  

[Vapaa]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Sentinel: Lift Grenade - lifts all enemies in the radius into the air

Adept: Biotic/Cluster Grenade - explodes with a great amount of biotic force

I see, thanks !

[goofyomnivore]

I think the Adept is balanced in Mass Effect 2. Grenade powers however sound kind of boring no matter the class.

My three wants for the Adept going forward are; make Pull+Throw insta kill more often, Singularity needs to travel faster and replace Shockwave with Stasis. Give me those three and the Adept is borderline overpowered.

[Graunt]

MELTOR13 wrote...

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

So now shields aren't immune to biotic powers again? I hope it is something general, as it would make the game much more enjoyable for adept players.

Unlikely, as that would trivialize gameplay in it's current state. 

It's kind of funny how many people have become indoctrinated to believe this nonsense.  One of the biggest complaints about ME2 was biotics not working against protected enemies, yet you did not find very many enemies that were protected at all on Normal or lower.  Normal is also the difficulty the developers said that the game was balanced around.  Many people found the lower difficulties way too easy (no matter the class), so the higher were used as a player benchmark, even if Bioware did not.  Biotics working on protected enemies would not in any way, shape or form "trivialize" the game compared to the power of any other class.

As far as biotic grenade is concerned; it's a lazy cop-out and completely ruins the lore (similarly to how they went from no thermal clip tech to requiring them for weapons).  It KIND OF makes sense (very little) if you consider the implants used to amplify biotic power, but we all know this was just used as the easy way out due to them not being able to come up with an actual power.  But I'm not that bothered by it.  The powers have all gained enough variation that there will be plenty of other skills to dump points into, and even if it is nonsense, putting at least a point into the grenade would not be a waste since it's off the GCD.

strive wrote...
I think the Adept is balanced in Mass Effect 2.

If that's your idea of balance, then the Soldier, Sentinel, Vanguard and Infiltrator are overpowered.  They can all use squadmates for combos too.

Modifié par Graunt, 18 janvier 2012 - 02:07 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

I only at least instead of just staggering the enemy adept powers were really damaging enemy shield (more than just firing your pistol at them I mean), for the power not working as intented is already annoying enough not to have it work like a tap on the shoulder.

[MELTOR]

Graunt wrote...
  Biotics working on protected enemies would not in any way, shape or form "trivialize" the game compared to the power of any other class.

Would you care to explain? I would love to hear it. I have a really hard time imagining gameplay where all biotic CC worked through protections without it making the game a joke. 

[Cloaking_Thane]

MELTOR wrote...

Graunt wrote...
  Biotics working on protected enemies would not in any way, shape or form "trivialize" the game compared to the power of any other class.

Would you care to explain? I would love to hear it. I have a really hard time imagining gameplay where all biotic CC worked through protections without it making the game a joke. 

Well we know a few things from gameplay vids. Warp can be upgraded to work against shielded enemies better.

Pull will at least stagger enemies for a few steps rather than stopping them for half a second, and can pull shields at least out of enemy hands.

Wasnt there also an evolution for something to work though cover?

I think some people have romanticised the ME1 adept into this all encompassing juggernaught who couldnt die ever. Were they really good, sure but not so much better than any other class.

All the games are balanced around normal, and could we realistically say that ME1 or 2 werent ridiculously easy for any class on those levels?

I see no reason why throw field, for example, shouldnt have similar CC capacity to wide incinerate for the cannon fodder even on insanity.

Further I see no particular reason to "nerf" a class in a single player game that based on Biowares own data gathering something like 6%-12% played

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 18 janvier 2012 - 03:16 .

[Shepard the Leper]

Graunt wrote...

It's kind of funny how many people have become indoctrinated to believe this nonsense.  One of the biggest complaints about ME2 was biotics not working against protected enemies, yet you did not find very many enemies that were protected at all on Normal or lower.  Normal is also the difficulty the developers said that the game was balanced around.  Many people found the lower difficulties way too easy (no matter the class), so the higher were used as a player benchmark, even if Bioware did not.  Biotics working on protected enemies would not in any way, shape or form "trivialize" the game compared to the power of any other class.

LOL, how does it NOT trivialize gameplay is beyond me.

Let's get a couple simple facts straight shall we. In ME2 you're fighting 5 maybe 6 enemies at a time. Bringing two Pull (Field) squadmates plus Adept Shep = all 5-6 enemies will be flying around indefinitely. Perhaps that isn't "trivial" to you, but to me it's worse than ME1 when all biotic powers at least had a long cooldown. On ME2 Normal only elites and bosses have protection which makes it a little harder to kill them because they CANNOT be CC'ed instantly (except for Singularity, but its effect is rather eratic). When you remove the protection system they will die like flies too and playing the Adept like that, on Insanity, would be a lot easier than playing the current ME2 Adept on Casual.

You also fail to understand that the protection system allows a wide selection of powers, take it away and 80% of all ME2 powers are completely redundant. That's one heck of a way to ruin the gameplay system.

strive wrote...
I think the Adept is balanced in Mass Effect 2.

If that's your idea of balance, then the Soldier, Sentinel, Vanguard and Infiltrator are overpowered.  They can all use squadmates for combos too.

You're confusing "easy to play" with "combat effectiveness". Activating ARush or spamming Assault Armor is mindblowingly easy. No need to keep track of the enemy, their status, travel times (of powers), potential teamwork and so on. Just hit the slowmo or invincibility button and you're good to go.

Those who know how to play Adept and how to use biotic power effectively will destroy anything and anyone in their paths very easy, very fast and in a cool way. You'd be right when saying the Adept is the weakest class during the first couple mission, but that has little to nothing to do with their powers, but because they're lacking decent weapons and upgrades (try a Vanguard, Soldier or Infiltrator with only a pistol and the Shuriken to get the idea). With a shotgun or assault rifle, and 3 biotic upgrades (you can have them at 20% completion) Adepts are on par with all other classes.

An insta-cast Singularity (like Liara's in LotSB) plus a nice weapon from the start would have "fixed" the ME2 Adept. Removing the protection system would only make matters worse - for all classes. That ain't an option, and from what I've seen, it ain't going to happen in ME3 anyway.

Modifié par Shepard the Leper, 18 janvier 2012 - 03:58 .

[MELTOR]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...


Well we know a few things from gameplay vids. Warp can be upgraded to work against shielded enemies better.

Warp is, and pretty much always has been, a direct damage or DoT power. Hasn't ever been a CC. I guess it's nice to give the Adept something to deal with shields. I never understood why so many Adepters complained about shields while Engineers never complained about having to deal with barriers. But I digress. 

Pull will at least stagger enemies for a few steps rather than stopping them for half a second, and can pull shields at least out of enemy hands.

That's fine....biotic powers IMO should have more impact behind them. 

Wasnt there also an evolution for something to work though cover?

All the games are balanced around normal, and could we realistically say that ME1 or 2 werent ridiculously easy for any class on those levels?

The games were balanced around normal, but nobody ever uses normal as the standard for judging the capabilities of a class. If we did, there would never be any reason to complain about an Adept, because they slaughter everything on Normal. 

Run an Engineer on Insanity on ME1 without biotic squadmates and then go back and run an Adept with those same squadmates. classes like Soldier and Infiltrator can only compensate by using a broken ability (Immunity) to make them basically invunerable. Biotics make the game signficantly easier, because they compensate for the enemies increased health and damage by providing unrivaled CC. 

[b]I see no reason why throw field, for example, shouldnt have similar CC capacity to wide incinerate for the cannon fodder even on insanity.

I'm a little confused by this statement. Incineration Blast provides only a quick stagger if it hits enemies that are protected (unless it burns all the way through their armor, then it kicks in the 'fire dance' animation, I believe). Throw Field will do the same thing....protected enemies will do a quick stagger, while unprotected enemies will go flying. 

[Shepard the Leper]

MELTOR wrote...

I'm a little confused by this statement. Incineration Blast provides only a quick stagger if it hits enemies that are protected (unless it burns all the way through their armor, then it kicks in the 'fire dance' animation, I believe). Throw Field will do the same thing....protected enemies will do a quick stagger, while unprotected enemies will go flying. 

Correction: When an enemy has 1 protection point (or more) left, secundary effects won't trigger.

The Incineration example you mentioned will only remove the protection and damage health - it won't trigger the dance. Using a sniper rifle with AP ammo equiped and shooting a mook with one shield point left has no effect whatsoever (eventhough most damage will be done to their health bar). I recall this is explained in the gameplay data topic in the strategy forum.

[MJvasNormandy]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

You're confusing "easy to play" with "combat effectiveness". Activating ARush or spamming Assault Armor is mindblowingly easy. No need to keep track of the enemy, their status, travel times (of powers), potential teamwork and so on. Just hit the slowmo or invincibility button and you're good to go.

Those who know how to play Adept and how to use biotic power effectively will destroy anything and anyone in their paths very easy, very fast and in a cool way. You'd be right when saying the Adept is the weakest class during the first couple mission, but that has little to nothing to do with their powers, but because they're lacking decent weapons and upgrades (try a Vanguard, Soldier or Infiltrator with only a pistol and the Shuriken to get the idea). With a shotgun or assault rifle, and 3 biotic upgrades (you can have them at 20% completion) Adepts are on par with all other classes.

An insta-cast Singularity (like Liara's in LotSB) plus a nice weapon from the start would have "fixed" the ME2 Adept. Removing the protection system would only make matters worse - for all classes. That ain't an option, and from what I've seen, it ain't going to happen in ME3 anyway.

Very well said. I am convinced that those who feel adepts are underpowered on ME2 insanity, aren't as good at the game as they might have themselves believe. Any adept worth their salt, knows how powerful and effective biotics are.

Adepts, more than any other class, can abuse line of sight...the most powerful weapon in any TPS (or FPS for that matter). I can gaurantee that most complaining adepts fire powers while sticking to standing cover, never use throw or pull on protected enemies, and sit back instead of pushing forward advantageously. Poor technique = poor performance.

Hopefully the buffs they are giving biotics in ME3 don't overcompensate for all the whiners. ME1 biotics have spoiled too many.

[Graunt]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...



I think some people have romanticised the ME1 adept into this all encompassing juggernaught who couldnt die ever. Were they really good, sure but not so much better than any other class.

Without a doubt, biotics are the most exaggerated abilities from the first game.  Time and time again you see random people talking about how "biotics were overpowering" and how "you could CC a room".  And yet completely dismiss the fact that with Immunity, biotics are not only not needed, but actually slower in regards to actually killing enemies.  You also cannot CC an entire room and kill enemies without pause on the higher difficulties.  It just does not work that way.  I loved biotics in the first game, but that doesn't mean that they were better than anything else--because they were not.  An all Immunity team was much better than any team that had more than a single biotic (counting Wrex as the "biotic") for not only killing speed, but survivability.

Shepard the Leper wrote...

random drivel

Then you need to contact Bioware and make sure that their supposed "balance" setting is to your exact specifications since they obviously don't know what they are doing.

MELTOR wrote...



Run an Engineer on Insanity on ME1
without biotic squadmates and then go back and run an Adept with those same squadmates. classes like Soldier and Infiltrator can only compensate by using a broken ability (Immunity) to make them basically invunerable. Biotics make the game signficantly easier, because they compensate for the enemies increased health and damage by providing unrivaled CC.

LMAO.  Your entire argument says this: Biotics were overpowered.  The only thing that was better was an even more overpowered ability.  

Anyway, biotics may have been "fun", but in no way, shape or form were they as good as simply being able to take hits repeatedly while quickly clearing out a room.  Immunity was so strong that even on insanity you could take a few rockets to the face.  Memory is a funny thing isn't it?  People tend to exaggerate the way things happened compared to how they truly are.

Either that, or they are just rationalizing through ignorance, since they've never actually played around with Immunity.

Modifié par Graunt, 18 janvier 2012 - 05:32 .

[Omega-202]

Graunt wrote...
Without a doubt, biotics are the most exaggerated abilities from the first game.  Time and time again you see random people talking about how "biotics were overpowering" and how "you could CC a room".  And yet completely dismiss the fact that with Immunity, biotics are not only not needed, but actually slower in regards to actually killing enemies.  You also cannot CC an entire room and kill enemies without pause on the higher difficulties.  It just does not work that way.  I loved biotics in the first game, but that doesn't mean that they were better than anything else--because they were not.  An all Immunity team was much better than any team that had more than a single biotic (counting Wrex as the "biotic") for not only killing speed, but survivability.

That is complete BS.

The number one factor in slowing down gameplay on Insanity in ME1 was the fact that 50% of the enemies used Immunity themselves.  "All Immunity" teams which had no means to stop enemies from spamming their own Immunity were unkillable, but absurdly slow.  

The fact that you found biotic focused teams in ME1 to be slow just shows how poorly you played your class.  If you got the drop on a room full of enemies with a Singularity, before they could activate their Immunity, double (or more) Warped/Overload the center of the Singularity to floor the resistance % of the enemies floating around it and then just open fire (HMWP X w/Marksman) on the mass of floating enemies, you could clear them out A LOT faster than having to pick them off one at a time through their 80% resistance Immunities while they're also running around screaming at you.  

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Yes, Immunity teams are unkillable, but they're slow and brute force.  

[MELTOR]

Graunt wrote...

Without a doubt, biotics are the most exaggerated abilities from the first game.  Time and time again you see random people talking about how "biotics were overpowering" and how "you could CC a room".

You can CC a room. Easily. Have you played ME recently. Once you're about mid-level you can slap a singularity on one side of the room, Lift another side, then Stasis/Throw any remaining. And that's just ONE biotic. Throw Adept Shep and Liara together and you can easily take can of an entire bunker by yourselves. I know, I've done it. Recently, in fact. 

I loved biotics in the first game, but that doesn't mean that they were better than anything else--because they were not.  An all Immunity team was much better than any team that had more than a single biotic (counting Wrex as the "biotic") for not only killing speed, but survivability.

Immunity was broken, for sure - it is the Soldier/Infiltrator's way of dealing with enemies because they have no CC powers. 

I'll say it again. Take an Engineer on ME1, turn up the difficulty to Insanity, and run through the game with no biotic squadmates. 

Then do the same thing but with an Adept Shepard, or even just take Liara along with the Enigeer Shep. The game will become SIGNIFICANTLY easier. And please don't reply "Well you're purposely handicapping yourself if you don't bring X squadmate"....because every time you tell someone that in ME2 (Adepts, bring someone with defense stripping capabilities) they get all pissy. 

Just because Immunity was broken does not mean that biotics were not superior to most other powers...because they were. 

But we're bad off-topic, and I won't derail this thread any further. Where's AVPen with moar news?!

[Graunt]

Omega-202 wrote...

Graunt wrote...
Without a doubt, biotics are the most exaggerated abilities from the first game.  Time and time again you see random people talking about how "biotics were overpowering" and how "you could CC a room".  And yet completely dismiss the fact that with Immunity, biotics are not only not needed, but actually slower in regards to actually killing enemies.  You also cannot CC an entire room and kill enemies without pause on the higher difficulties.  It just does not work that way.  I loved biotics in the first game, but that doesn't mean that they were better than anything else--because they were not.  An all Immunity team was much better than any team that had more than a single biotic (counting Wrex as the "biotic") for not only killing speed, but survivability.

That is complete BS.

The number one factor in slowing down gameplay on Insanity in ME1 was the fact that 50% of the enemies used Immunity themselves.  "All Immunity" teams which had no means to stop enemies from spamming their own Immunity were unkillable, but absurdly slow.  

The fact that you found biotic focused teams in ME1 to be slow just shows how poorly you played your class.  If you got the drop on a room full of enemies with a Singularity, before they could activate their Immunity, double (or more) Warped/Overload the center of the Singularity to floor the resistance % of the enemies floating around it and then just open fire (HMWP X w/Marksman) on the mass of floating enemies, you could clear them out A LOT faster than having to pick them off one at a time through their 80% resistance Immunities while they're also running around screaming at you.  

You have no idea what you're talking about.  Yes, Immunity teams are unkillable, but they're slow and brute force.  

You are a typical case of the kind of person I am talking about.  You don't know what you're talking about at all, and are only remembering things in a way that "proves" your cause, even though you're entirely wrong.  I just played two characters to level 60 not even two weeks ago and there are definitely nowhere near that amount that use Immunity.  The main enemies that do are mercenaries, pirates and Krogan.  It doesn't even matter either once you get Spectre gear.  If anything, only 20% of the enemies on Insanity use Immunity and they still die quickly.  You do realize that Wrex has Warp and that Sabotage is also a form of CC right?  Or do enemies need to be ragdolled before you can admit they are CCd?

Biotic teams are slow as dirt, and you can glorify suspending enemies all day, but that doesn't mean you're actually killing them at a similar speed, because you're not.

MELTOR wrote...
Just because Immunity was broken does not mean that biotics were not superior to most other powers...because they were. 

You aren't even posting anything new or even relevant actually.  It's like you're comparing two different cars to a bicycle and claiming because the bicycle was inferior that obviously either of the two cars are complete overkill.  "Most other powers".  There were only tech powers, biotics and immunity.  So yeah, if "most other powers" means tech...and FYI not all tech powers were garbage, which is why the Infiltrator was one of, if not the best class in the game.  Engineers being bad is not indicative of biotics being too strong or whatever it is you're trying to claim.

Modifié par Graunt, 18 janvier 2012 - 05:45 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

To address a few points above me. Insanity on ME1 was broken period, I have no intention to ever run through it again. My ME1 insanity achievement came from an infiltrator and it was easy enough.

But again relatively they were balanced and were meant to be performed in concert with one another. ME1 Engineer is fine, ME1 adept is better than it, I would agree.

For me soldier is super OP in ME2 but I dont complain about it, nor would I ever in a SP game

re: Throw field, I see no reason why we shouldnt be able to throw a generic soldier or 2 around even with shields. No one has given a good reason for it not to be the case, especially given that the enemies will supposedly be smarter, more numerous, and flank. Realistically it would be no better or worse than stasis. If it actually knocked someone off their feet you we see many more less pasive adepts, to me enhancing the gameplay.

re: "Youre not doing it right with your Adept"

Well I played plenty aggressive enough with my Viper Adept (AR adept makes it much easier, but I wanted a sniper adept).

I rarely see any videos utilizing the vaunted powers of throw, pull, or shockwave on shielded enemies in concert with aggressive gameplay, in fact no matter how much you try to get away from it it's Warp, Singularity, and Stasis 90% of the time in ME2 if you want to play aggressive. Not to mention the unerring accuracy and +/- 4 seconds you have on insanity in open fire

The Option for an assult rifle at the start will help the Adept alot I will agree there.

[Shepard the Leper]

Graunt wrote...

Without a doubt, biotics are the most exaggerated abilities from the first game.  Time and time again you see random people talking about how "biotics were overpowering" and how "you could CC a room".  And yet completely dismiss the fact that with Immunity, biotics are not only not needed, but actually slower in regards to actually killing enemies.  You also cannot CC an entire room and kill enemies without pause on the higher difficulties.  It just does not work that way.  I loved biotics in the first game, but that doesn't mean that they were better than anything else--because they were not.  An all Immunity team was much better than any team that had more than a single biotic (counting Wrex as the "biotic") for not only killing speed, but survivability.

Why do you need to pause ME1 when using biotics? I never pause in either game and with the first that means you have to put your squad on auto, but that doesn't matter because when you remove your squad entirely there are still no enemies who are capable to fight back.

Biotics are the fastest killing machines in the first game because they prevent enemies to activate their Immunity. There is no way a Soldier can even come close to the killing speed of biotics (Sentinel, Vanguard and Adept).

To me, you sound like someone who likes some classes and dislikes others; and purely based on your personal preference you dismiss other classes being weak, not fun, under-powered or whatever., Maybe that's true when you play the game, but that doesn't make it true in general.

Then you need to contact Bioware and make sure that their supposed "balance" setting is to your exact specifications since they obviously don't know what they are doing.

Lolwut?

Anyway, biotics may have been "fun", but in no way, shape or form were they as good as simply being able to take hits repeatedly while quickly clearing out a room.  Immunity was so strong that even on insanity you could take a few rockets to the face.  Memory is a funny thing isn't it?  People tend to exaggerate the way things happened compared to how they truly are.

Either that, or they are just rationalizing through ignorance, since they've never actually played around with Immunity.

Then you are either a poor player or you have no clue about the mechanics because biotics completely disable anyone and anything indefinitely (and unlike ME2, instantly). Go eat rockets with your Immunity Soldier if you like, Adepts don't have to worry about rockets in the first place.

[Shepard the Leper]

Graunt wrote...

You are a typical case of the kind of person I am talking about.  You don't know what you're talking about at all, and are only remembering things in a way that "proves" your cause, even though you're entirely wrong.  I just played two characters to level 60 not even two weeks ago and there are definitely nowhere near that amount that use Immunity.  The main enemies that do are mercenaries, pirates and Krogan.  It doesn't even matter either once you get Spectre gear.  If anything, only 20% of the enemies on Insanity use Immunity and they still die quickly.  You do realize that Wrex has Warp and that Sabotage is also a form of CC right?  Or do enemies need to be ragdolled before you can admit they are CCd?

Biotic teams are slow as dirt, and you can glorify suspending enemies all day, but that doesn't mean you're actually killing them at a similar speed, because you're not.

Go and check those ME1 Insanity solo videos on YT. That guy knows how to play and his Soldier and Adept share a couple fights (the harder ones). It isn't the Soldier who kills fastest and it's a Soldier who uses Warp to debuff enemy Immunity spam.

Before claiming that others "don't know what they're talking about" go take a look at the mirror.

[MELTOR]

Graunt wrote...
 and that Sabotage is also a form of CC right?  Or do enemies need to be ragdolled before you can admit they are CCd?

Sabotage does not last very long (I can't find numbers for it, but if it mimics Shep's weapon overheat it's only for a few seconds), and it doesn't completely incapacitate an enemy like biotics do. Charging Krogan and melee enemies are still quite problematic. Damping only stuns for 3 seconds. 

Singularity lasts for up to 8 seconds, Lift lasts for over 10 seconds, Stasis can last over 20 seconds AND you can damage enemies while they are Stasis'd. 

Adept Shep and Liara could alternate biotics and, with the right upgrades, effectively keep a very large group of enemies completely incapacitated. 

I'll stop posting now to facilitate unit cohestion.

[AVPen]

So apparently in the leaks there is a power listed as "Lockdown", which can only be used while under Tactical Cloak and causes its target/s to be unable to move or fire for a short period - whether or not this power is a current or former power of the Infiltrator, I have no idea, but I sort of suspect that like the Sentinel's Amplication and Adept's Overpower, it was an intended power for the Infiltrator that was later scrapped as the game was being developed and was replaced by Sticky Grenade (maybe the power was too difficult to program with Tactical Cloak or it started to infringe on some of Sabotage's skill set, which the Infiltrator does have).

Either way, here's the evolution ranks that I found on Lockdown (which are really incomplete and out of order, which sort of lends to my theory of it being an early scrapped power):

Recharge Speed   CooldownTime%b}% to Lockdown's recharge speed

Radius   {MaximumRange%b}% to Lockdown's range

Explosive Lockdown   Killing an enemy in Lockdown causes an explosion around him, hurting nearby enemies

Double Lockdown   Lockdown can be cast on two enemies at once

Debilitating Lockdown   Locked down enemies take {Evolve_DamageBonus%b}% more damage



Also, I don't know where Fathom's been of late, but I might just go ahead and start searching the evolution ranks for Biotic Powers and class passives soon.

Modifié par AVPen, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:34 .