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[Ghost43]

AVPen wrote...

luckyloser62 wrote...

Ghost43 wrote...

Haven't played in a while, Shep has 52 skill pts at level 30, right?

51 actually

Since the skill point maximum are higher in ME3, though, it's most likely that Shepard will get more points at level 30 than what he had in ME2 at the same level.

    Thanks Lucky. AVPen, if I recall correctly, you get 2 pts a level early in the game, and then it evened out to 1 a level. I think that trends going to hold, and we get 81 pts at level cap 60. Going to be some hard choices, I think.

Edit: Late post, of course. Hmm, 178? That seems really, really high. I guess they want everyone to use all the powers, and the choice will be the path within a power, and when you get it.

Modifié par Ghost43, 22 janvier 2012 - 08:09 .

[Ahglock]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

I think the rank 5 evolution options for Shockwave seem a little...weak in principle. The travel time was an issue for many people in ME2 and I think th at probably aught to be a general improvement of the power overall...not a evolution option. Meanwhile range seems like something that aught to be included in the 1-3 ranks. Of course one does not have the full numbers on the ablilty so it is hard to judge.

Lifting Shockwave intrigues me a bit, especially if it triggers lifted damage bonuses from weapons, biotics, and warp ammo.

I agree and will say on general principle it always irritates me when a fix for an obvious flaw is something you get charged for in game.  Actually a lot of biotics had way to slow of a travel time, when I'd throw a singularity or shockwave and sprinted after them I pretty much kept up and that is just crap, throw and pull were faster but they still were not fast.  

[mineralica]

Ahglock wrote...

I agree and will say on general principle it always irritates me when a fix for an obvious flaw is something you get charged for in game.  Actually a lot of biotics had way to slow of a travel time, when I'd throw a singularity or shockwave and sprinted after them I pretty much kept up and that is just crap, throw and pull were faster but they still were not fast.  

Depends on how fast non-upgraded Shockwave (or any biotic ability which is "launched") will travel. If non-upgraded will move more faster than in ME2 and upgraded will insta-reach enemies, I won't complain.

[Stardusk78]

mineralica wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I agree and will say on general principle it always irritates me when a fix for an obvious flaw is something you get charged for in game.  Actually a lot of biotics had way to slow of a travel time, when I'd throw a singularity or shockwave and sprinted after them I pretty much kept up and that is just crap, throw and pull were faster but they still were not fast.  

Depends on how fast non-upgraded Shockwave (or any biotic ability which is "launched") will travel. If non-upgraded will move more faster than in ME2 and upgraded will insta-reach enemies, I won't complain.

Even in ME2, creative players found uses for Shockwave, with the improvements it should be very good I think.

[Biotic Sage]

Ghost43 wrote...

AVPen wrote...

luckyloser62 wrote...

Ghost43 wrote...

Haven't played in a while, Shep has 52 skill pts at level 30, right?

51 actually

Since the skill point maximum are higher in ME3, though, it's most likely that Shepard will get more points at level 30 than what he had in ME2 at the same level.

    Thanks Lucky. AVPen, if I recall correctly, you get 2 pts a level early in the game, and then it evened out to 1 a level. I think that trends going to hold, and we get 81 pts at level cap 60. Going to be some hard choices, I think.

Edit: Late post, of course. Hmm, 178? That seems really, really high. I guess they want everyone to use all the powers, and the choice will be the path within a power, and when you get it.

I'm very much against that high number of squad points that the devs have said we can get.  I think Shep should only be able to max out 6/9 powers (8 standard powers + 1 bonus power = 9 powers total).  It takes 21 points to max out a power in ME3 so with 178 that means we could max out 8 and a half of our powers...if that truly is the case then I will be VERY disappointed.  I have already expressed my opinion on the matter many times on these forums: that being able to max out virtually every single power would undermine leveling progression choices the player makes.  Undermining player choices/character build choices = bad RPG.  There has to be an inherent sacrifice in choosing to max out a power (i.e. I just got to level 56 and if I choose to max out Throw then I won't have enough points at level 60 to max out my Pull).

I think the above paragraph ESPECIALLY applies to ME3 because most of us will be starting at Level 30, meaning the following argument does not apply:  "Well you are still sacrificing not having a particular power maxed out early on in the game; even if you can technically max out every power by level 60, you probably won't even reach level 60 and if you do it won't be until very late in the game."  Does not apply because it seems as though we will in fact be reaching level 60 in ME3, and quite easily if we are importing.

[Eckswhyzed]

Biotic Sage wrote...


I'm very much against that high number of squad points that the devs have said we can get.  I think Shep should only be able to max out 6/9 powers (8 standard powers + 1 bonus power = 9 powers total).  It takes 21 points to max out a power in ME3 so with 178 that means we could max out 8 and a half of our powers...if that truly is the case then I will be VERY disappointed.  I have already expressed my opinion on the matter many times on these forums: that being able to max out virtually every single power would undermine leveling progression choices the player makes.  Undermining player choices/character build choices = bad RPG.  There has to be an inherent sacrifice in choosing to max out a power (i.e. I just got to level 56 and if I choose to max out Throw then I won't have enough points at level 60 to max out my Pull).

I think the above paragraph ESPECIALLY applies to ME3 because most of us will be starting at Level 30, meaning the following argument does not apply:  "Well you are still sacrificing not having a particular power maxed out early on in the game; even if you can technically max out every power by level 60, you probably won't even reach level 60 and if you do it won't be until very late in the game."  Does not apply because it seems as though we will in fact be reaching level 60 in ME3, and quite easily if we are importing.

I'm also paying close attention to how many powers we can max out. With the top tier evolutions costing 5 to 6 pts, I know I'm going to struggle with the tradeoff between power versatility and depth. For 6 points, you can get the final evolution vs. levelling a totally different power to its 3rd rank. Now that is a big tradeoff.

All this makes me glad that respeccing using credits was confirmed:lol:


Slightly off-topic - should we talk about hypothetical build ideas? Here's mine:

* Claymore soldier v2 - use ARush + improved combat mobility to get heavy melee kills. Chain CQC kills to get "martial artist" damage bonuses.

* CQC Infiltrator - use shotguns as primary, posible forego sniper rifles to reduce weight. Use cloak + heavy melee + decoys to destroy small enemy groups. I wonder if they nerfed the GPS + cloak synergy?

[Shepard the Leper]

Ahglock wrote...

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

I think the rank 5 evolution options for Shockwave seem a little...weak in principle. The travel time was an issue for many people in ME2 and I think th at probably aught to be a general improvement of the power overall...not a evolution option. Meanwhile range seems like something that aught to be included in the 1-3 ranks. Of course one does not have the full numbers on the ablilty so it is hard to judge.

Lifting Shockwave intrigues me a bit, especially if it triggers lifted damage bonuses from weapons, biotics, and warp ammo.

I agree and will say on general principle it always irritates me when a fix for an obvious flaw is something you get charged for in game.  Actually a lot of biotics had way to slow of a travel time, when I'd throw a singularity or shockwave and sprinted after them I pretty much kept up and that is just crap, throw and pull were faster but they still were not fast.

Yeah, travel speed of biotic projectiles is way too slow in ME2. It looks like to be faster, but the Adept remains the only class who doesn't have an instant hitting power - a missed opportunity. My Adept really liked the option to instantly disable an enemy with Stasis instead of getting her shields blown off (and some health) before the damn projectile reached the target.

I don't understand why Stasis isn't an Adept power, but the least Bioware could do is to make Singularity insta-cast (like Liara's) - it makes the power way more effective and a reliable lock-down ability. I hated those moments when Singularity pushed enemies out of its AoE instead of holding them in place (or never reached the target but hit a wall or something). Got my Adept killed quite often.

The cool thing about ME2's Combat Drones is the instant effect. Imagine how crappy those drones would have been if they popped up in front of Shepard and had to find their way to the enemy on their own. Combat Drones can distract anyone anywhere on the battlefield instantly - they are excellent CC. Singularity isn't anything like that; to have the option to CC any enemy instantly, Adepts have to rely on Liara, or pick Stasis bonus power. That's lame imho, squadmates and bonus powers are supposed to give the player extra abilities - not to fix their "broken" powers.

[Shepard the Leper]

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm very much against that high number of squad points that the devs have said we can get.  I think Shep should only be able to max out 6/9 powers (8 standard powers + 1 bonus power = 9 powers total).  It takes 21 points to max out a power in ME3 so with 178 that means we could max out 8 and a half of our powers...if that truly is the case then I will be VERY disappointed.  I have already expressed my opinion on the matter many times on these forums: that being able to max out virtually every single power would undermine leveling progression choices the player makes.  Undermining player choices/character build choices = bad RPG.  There has to be an inherent sacrifice in choosing to max out a power (i.e. I just got to level 56 and if I choose to max out Throw then I won't have enough points at level 60 to max out my Pull).

I think the above paragraph ESPECIALLY applies to ME3 because most of us will be starting at Level 30, meaning the following argument does not apply:  "Well you are still sacrificing not having a particular power maxed out early on in the game; even if you can technically max out every power by level 60, you probably won't even reach level 60 and if you do it won't be until very late in the game."  Does not apply because it seems as though we will in fact be reaching level 60 in ME3, and quite easily if we are importing.

Yeah, having so many skillpoint pretty much defeats the whole purpose of "role-playing" or "character building". IMHO ME2 already has too many points to spend which resulted in "clone" builds (everyone ended up with basically the same builds except maybe one or two minor tweaks). Having all those nice evolutions will improve build diversity, but the option to max nearly all powers is silly. 50-70% skillpoints (out of 100% = every power fully leveled) is perferable. 

[Biotic Sage]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Yeah, having so many skillpoint pretty much defeats the whole purpose of "role-playing" or "character building". IMHO ME2 already has too many points to spend which resulted in "clone" builds (everyone ended up with basically the same builds except maybe one or two minor tweaks). Having all those nice evolutions will improve build diversity, but the option to max nearly all powers is silly. 50-70% skillpoints (out of 100% = every power fully leveled) is perferable. 

Agree completely.  The extra evolutions are necessary for differentiating builds even with the 50-70% maxing of skillpoints.  Gives character building some nice depth that has been lacking even in ME1 but especially in ME2.

[Bogrot]

About these squadmates' bonus powers: if Kaidan is dead, then my Vanguard/Adept/Sentinel can't select as a bonus power Reave or Barrier?

[Biotic Sage]

Bogrot wrote...

About these squadmates' bonus powers: if Kaidan is dead, then my Vanguard/Adept/Sentinel can't select as a bonus power Reave or Barrier?

No one knows...

They have yet to confirm how/when bonus powers will be unlocked.  I want my first run to be with my Adept Shepard (my main one) with Biotic Focus as his bonus power and a key part of his build, but if we have to play through the game once to unlock bonus powers then I will have to make my first run through ME3 with a different Shepard, probably my Sentinel.

[Derahu]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Bogrot wrote...

About these squadmates' bonus powers: if Kaidan is dead, then my Vanguard/Adept/Sentinel can't select as a bonus power Reave or Barrier?

No one knows...

They have yet to confirm how/when bonus powers will be unlocked.  I want my first run to be with my Adept Shepard (my main one) with Biotic Focus as his bonus power and a key part of his build, but if we have to play through the game once to unlock bonus powers then I will have to make my first run through ME3 with a different Shepard, probably my Sentinel.

If reave works like dominate did in ME2 then I think you would have to have a profile with Kaiden alive.  If you don't have one to import then start a new game in ME3 until you get that power then delete the character. 

For the skill points arguement, I agree with the 70% max skills.  For my main, I'm thinking of maxing out incinerate and cryoblast (with their dual damage increases of course), combat drone and turret (pets are what make engineers awesome), and finally tech mastery and fitness.  That leaves sabotage, overload and the bonus power.  Overload is important to the engineer but since were going to be dealing mostly with husks which have armor, then I will rank it up to 4-5.  Sabotage can hack and jam enemies weapons but the hacking is based on circumstance and the weapon jam only lasts a few seconds for little damage so I will just rank up to 3 maybe 4.  Lastly, my bonus power will probably be defense matrix so what ever points I have left will be put into that. 

Edit: I've calculated how many points would be needed for these ranks and I got 142-151 (excluding points into the bonus power because I don't know what our max points are at lvl 60).

Modifié par Derahu, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:16 .

[andy6915]

Biotic Sage wrote...
No one knows...

They have yet to confirm how/when bonus powers will be unlocked.  I want my first run to be with my Adept Shepard (my main one) with Biotic Focus as his bonus power and a key part of his build, but if we have to play through the game once to unlock bonus powers then I will have to make my first run through ME3 with a different Shepard, probably my Sentinel.

Because of that, if I decide to bring my soldier characters into ME3, it will be on files where I saved Ashley to get her bonus powers, and if I decide to instead bring my vanguards into ME3, I will make it files where I saved Kaiden to get my two favorite bonus powers from ME2 for my vanguards (reave and barrier).

[Biotic Sage]

andy69156915 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
No one knows...

They have yet to confirm how/when bonus powers will be unlocked.  I want my first run to be with my Adept Shepard (my main one) with Biotic Focus as his bonus power and a key part of his build, but if we have to play through the game once to unlock bonus powers then I will have to make my first run through ME3 with a different Shepard, probably my Sentinel.

Because of that, if I decide to bring my soldier characters into ME3, it will be on files where I saved Ashley to get her bonus powers, and if I decide to instead bring my vanguards into ME3, I will make it files where I saved Kaiden to get my two favorite bonus powers from ME2 for my vanguards (reave and barrier).

I'm sure that if you unlock Ashley's bonus powers in one save file they will be available to you in any save file after that...at least I would hope so.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:17 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Damn I'm really kicking myself for not following the golden rule of bros before hoes. I'd much rather have Kaiden on my team than Ashley, even if he was an annoying, brooding, emo pansy.

And hell, I don't even wanna deal with Ash story-wise. It's gonna be totally awkward that I one-nght-standed her with no intentions of keeping a relationship once she started spouting off the religious nonsense, and then moved on to Miranda.

Love how I'm more concerned with the IRL drama type aspects of the story than the whole galaxy-wide, giant space robot apocalypse issue lol.

[andy6915]

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm sure that if you unlock Ashley's
bonus powers in one save file they will be available to you in any save
file after that...at least I would hope so.

That's how it worked in ME2, I wouldn't expect it any other way. But even still, if I'm going to do a first playthrough as a specific class, it should be with the character who gives me the powers most suited to that class.  Second playthrough will be with the opposite class and VS. But for the first, I should definitely pick the VS who is most useful for me.

[Derahu]

andy69156915 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm sure that if you unlock Ashley's
bonus powers in one save file they will be available to you in any save
file after that...at least I would hope so.

That's how it worked in ME2, I wouldn't expect it any other way. But even still, if I'm going to do a first playthrough as a specific class, it should be with the character who gives me the powers most suited to that class.  Second playthrough will be with the opposite class and VS. But for the first, I should definitely pick the VS who is most useful for me.

Its gonna suck for me because the save file that I have with Kaiden alive is a sentinel so his contributions will be very limited to that character...<_<

[Ahglock]

mineralica wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I agree and will say on general principle it always irritates me when a fix for an obvious flaw is something you get charged for in game.  Actually a lot of biotics had way to slow of a travel time, when I'd throw a singularity or shockwave and sprinted after them I pretty much kept up and that is just crap, throw and pull were faster but they still were not fast.  

Depends on how fast non-upgraded Shockwave (or any biotic ability which is "launched") will travel. If non-upgraded will move more faster than in ME2 and upgraded will insta-reach enemies, I won't complain.

Neither will I.  But an upgrade that speeds up the shockwave does not give me the feeling that they fixed its speed for the base version. That usually means it is still stupidly slow and when you take the upgrade it gains a fucntional speed.

[Biotic Sage]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Damn I'm really kicking myself for not following the golden rule of bros before hoes. I'd much rather have Kaiden on my team than Ashley, even if he was an annoying, brooding, emo pansy.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  WHOA.  Brah, you serious brah?  Kaidan is the bro.  He wasn't brooding, I didn't see him wearing emo eyeliner, and he definitely wasn't a pansy 'cuz he was lifting geth armatures about 100 ft off the ground all over the place.  Annoying?  You best check yo'self bro.



Better show some respec' bro.  That's mothaf***in' Carth Onasi.

[Ahglock]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Yeah, having so many skillpoint pretty much defeats the whole purpose of "role-playing" or "character building". IMHO ME2 already has too many points to spend which resulted in "clone" builds (everyone ended up with basically the same builds except maybe one or two minor tweaks). Having all those nice evolutions will improve build diversity, but the option to max nearly all powers is silly. 50-70% skillpoints (out of 100% = every power fully leveled) is perferable. 

Agree completely.  The extra evolutions are necessary for differentiating builds even with the 50-70% maxing of skillpoints.  Gives character building some nice depth that has been lacking even in ME1 but especially in ME2.

Eh 50-70% is to sparse IMO.  While I don't have much of a problem with the 8.5 of 9 powers in the last game of the series(you hit max level which frequently means you have it all in in RPGS) I wouldn't complain if it was down to 7 powers.  But 6 or less powers maxed is not enough IMO.  Having too few places to put points limits builds and choices and consequences just as much as having to many places because there will always be an essaential grouping of powers which really never leaves much in the way of choices with what is left.  And besides you can always choose not to spend points, it is a bit harder to spend points you don;t have.  

[Biotic Sage]

Derahu wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm sure that if you unlock Ashley's
bonus powers in one save file they will be available to you in any save
file after that...at least I would hope so.

That's how it worked in ME2, I wouldn't expect it any other way. But even still, if I'm going to do a first playthrough as a specific class, it should be with the character who gives me the powers most suited to that class.  Second playthrough will be with the opposite class and VS. But for the first, I should definitely pick the VS who is most useful for me.

Its gonna suck for me because the save file that I have with Kaiden alive is a sentinel so his contributions will be very limited to that character...<_<

That's Sentinel-Synergy yo!  Kaidan has a great passive bonus to tech/biotic powers.  I'm pissed he's not alive in my Sentinel's file.

[Derahu]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Derahu wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm sure that if you unlock Ashley's
bonus powers in one save file they will be available to you in any save
file after that...at least I would hope so.

That's how it worked in ME2, I wouldn't expect it any other way. But even still, if I'm going to do a first playthrough as a specific class, it should be with the character who gives me the powers most suited to that class.  Second playthrough will be with the opposite class and VS. But for the first, I should definitely pick the VS who is most useful for me.

Its gonna suck for me because the save file that I have with Kaiden alive is a sentinel so his contributions will be very limited to that character...<_<

That's Sentinel-Synergy yo!  Kaidan has a great passive bonus to tech/biotic powers.  I'm pissed he's not alive in my Sentinel's file.

Hmm I guess your right but he's still gonna be screwed over because I accidentally romanced him in ME1 but in ME2 I romanced garrus so he's gonna be the new Jacob for that save file. *Forever alone*

[Lvl20DM]

178 total skill points? That is a bizarre number. We've seen a level 16 character with 32 points (2 preselected) in the leaked beta. That would imply a similar progression to ME2. I had assumed that Shep would get 2 pts level until level 40 or 50. I guess that has changed?

So maybe Shep gets something like 4 points per level early on, and then that number decreases as you get higher in level.

[Vapaa]

Lvl20DM wrote...

178 total skill points? That is a bizarre number. We've seen a level 16 character with 32 points (2 preselected) in the leaked beta. That would imply a similar progression to ME2. I had assumed that Shep would get 2 pts level until level 40 or 50. I guess that has changed?

It's likely that those 178 skill points aren't definitive, I heard of it even before the E3, and we all now that since then, the gameplay have been reworked, so I wouldn't worry much before we see the actual game.

[Lvl20DM]

Vapaä wrote...

It's likely that those 178 skill points aren't definitive, I heard of it even before the E3, and we all now that since then, the gameplay have been reworked, so I wouldn't worry much before we see the actual game.

I guess I didn't realize how old that information was. In that case, I'm more inclined to go with what I saw in the leaked beta. I guess we'll have a better understanding on the 14th.