3405 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega-202]

Biotic Sage wrote...


I'm very much against that high number of squad points that the devs have said we can get.  I think Shep should only be able to max out 6/9 powers (8 standard powers + 1 bonus power = 9 powers total).  It takes 21 points to max out a power in ME3 so with 178 that means we could max out 8 and a half of our powers...if that truly is the case then I will be VERY disappointed.  I have already expressed my opinion on the matter many times on these forums: that being able to max out virtually every single power would undermine leveling progression choices the player makes.  Undermining player choices/character build choices = bad RPG.  There has to be an inherent sacrifice in choosing to max out a power (i.e. I just got to level 56 and if I choose to max out Throw then I won't have enough points at level 60 to max out my Pull).

I think the above paragraph ESPECIALLY applies to ME3 because most of us will be starting at Level 30, meaning the following argument does not apply:  "Well you are still sacrificing not having a particular power maxed out early on in the game; even if you can technically max out every power by level 60, you probably won't even reach level 60 and if you do it won't be until very late in the game."  Does not apply because it seems as though we will in fact be reaching level 60 in ME3, and quite easily if we are importing.

I completely and vehemetly disagree.

We still get plenty of progression from 30 to 60.  Its just as much progression as there was in ME2.  And in terms of choices, we now have 8 different unique evolutionary combinations for each power.  Multiply that by 8 possible max-out powers and you have 64 combos for each class, NOT counting the extra points for an extra power, bonus powers, weapon loadouts+upgrades and squadmate combos.  

There's going to be more meaningful character building permutations in ME3 than there was in some of BioWare's old D&D based games and definitely more meaningful variations than ME1, hands down.  

There's no reason to handcuff players.  Allow us the freedom to choose, don't force us to choose.  You advocate having to make choices and yet support a loss of freedom in imagining our character's potential.  Your request is non-sensical and hypocritical in all honesty.

[Lvl20DM]

I think Biotic Sage makes a valid point, and certainly not a hypocritical one. You can run the risk of every Shep of a particular class looking very similar (even with the different evolutions). Either your or Sage's methods both result in varied characters and a more customization than the first 2 mass effect games - one is just more powerful than the other.

[No Snakes Alive]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...


I'm very much against that high number of squad points that the devs have said we can get.  I think Shep should only be able to max out 6/9 powers (8 standard powers + 1 bonus power = 9 powers total).  It takes 21 points to max out a power in ME3 so with 178 that means we could max out 8 and a half of our powers...if that truly is the case then I will be VERY disappointed.  I have already expressed my opinion on the matter many times on these forums: that being able to max out virtually every single power would undermine leveling progression choices the player makes.  Undermining player choices/character build choices = bad RPG.  There has to be an inherent sacrifice in choosing to max out a power (i.e. I just got to level 56 and if I choose to max out Throw then I won't have enough points at level 60 to max out my Pull).

I think the above paragraph ESPECIALLY applies to ME3 because most of us will be starting at Level 30, meaning the following argument does not apply:  "Well you are still sacrificing not having a particular power maxed out early on in the game; even if you can technically max out every power by level 60, you probably won't even reach level 60 and if you do it won't be until very late in the game."  Does not apply because it seems as though we will in fact be reaching level 60 in ME3, and quite easily if we are importing.

I'm also paying close attention to how many powers we can max out. With the top tier evolutions costing 5 to 6 pts, I know I'm going to struggle with the tradeoff between power versatility and depth. For 6 points, you can get the final evolution vs. levelling a totally different power to its 3rd rank. Now that is a big tradeoff.

All this makes me glad that respeccing using credits was confirmed:lol:


Slightly off-topic - should we talk about hypothetical build ideas? Here's mine:

* Claymore soldier v2 - use ARush + improved combat mobility to get heavy melee kills. Chain CQC kills to get "martial artist" damage bonuses.

* CQC Infiltrator - use shotguns as primary, posible forego sniper rifles to reduce weight. Use cloak + heavy melee + decoys to destroy small enemy groups. I wonder if they nerfed the GPS + cloak synergy?

I'm def planning ahead. I think an Assault Sentinel with CC powers for support has a lot of potential. Assuming (and hoping) that Fitness for Sentinels (and all classes, for that matter) works the same as it does for Soldiers/Vanguards, spec into it and Tech Armor w/ a melee/tanking focus. Then take the Oscillation evo for the class passive along with Throw's cooldown reset evo to offset Tech Armor supposedly increasing cooldowns now, and you can alternate btwn Cryo Blast and Throw in conjuction with Lift Grenades as needed for CC while you shotgun and melee the F out of people.

The other build I'm easily most hyped for is Engineer with Defense Drone for bp. Again, really, REALLY hoping Bioware's goal with Fitness is to let us turn any class we want into a CQC beast if we so please. And I'd spec all melee in that if so, and grab a shotty with which to run headfirst into the chaos my Drones create and obliterate me some distracted and incapacitated enemies. I'm obvi gonna spec my Drones and Turret for close range and as much stun and crowd control as possible so my enemies won't even know what hit them (and that'd be a fiery pimpslap that hit them).

And that's not even taking into consideration I can bring along the ever-so-boring-and-annoying Tali to up the drone count by two and good 'ol mystery partner 1 (or 2, whichever) to add Decoy to the mix of sheer confusion within which my enemies will be enveloped.

So yeah, Fitness really needs to be the same for every class when it comes to the melee-centric upgrades or I'll be hugely disappointed. Anyone who looked at the leak wanna help me out here if there's any indication of whether or not it is?



And PS yeah I called Tali yawnworthy, Sage. You and your brooding bf Alenko got a problem with that too? Come at me, bro. Lol.

[Omega-202]

Lvl20DM wrote...

I think Biotic Sage makes a valid point, and certainly not a hypocritical one. You can run the risk of every Shep of a particular class looking very similar (even with the different evolutions). Either your or Sage's methods both result in varied characters and a more customization than the first 2 mass effect games - one is just more powerful than the other.

I find that incredibly unlikely.  

Even for a game as limited in build choices as ME2, there is still so much variation from person to person and we could max out 5 out of 7 (+ a rank 1) powers.  

As an example, I personally have 3 very different Vanguard saves with 3 vastly different builds.  One has Stasis, Destroyer class power and Area Pull with AR's.  Another has Area Reave, Squad Cryo and Champion with Snipers.  The last I play on lower difficulties (with fewer upgrades to balance it) with Wide Shockwave, Area Charge and Flashbang.

The only time you risk every Shepard looking alike is when you limit people so much that they need to build a certain way to min-max their character.  Then you end up with Cookie Cutters.
Give the player freedom enough to make themselves highly effective while still having some points to fool around with fluff and then you get varied builds.  Its a simple fact that all powers aren't going to be balanced and some will be "skip" fodder.  If you starve the players, then you'll end up with homogenous builds which are necessary just to eek out crucial class skills necessary to have a competent character and completely lacking and ignoring the ones that are not considered ideal.  If you give the player some extra points, then they can invest in these lesser powers and have some fun with a more varied play style and build.  

[JaegerBane]

Omega-202 wrote...
I completely and vehemetly disagree.

We still get plenty of progression from 30 to 60.  Its just as much progression as there was in ME2.  And in terms of choices, we now have 8 different unique evolutionary combinations for each power.  Multiply that by 8 possible max-out powers and you have 64 combos for each class, NOT counting the extra points for an extra power, bonus powers, weapon loadouts+upgrades and squadmate combos.  

There's going to be more meaningful character building permutations in ME3 than there was in some of BioWare's old D&D based games and definitely more meaningful variations than ME1, hands down.  

There's no reason to handcuff players.  Allow us the freedom to choose, don't force us to choose.  You advocate having to make choices and yet support a loss of freedom in imagining our character's potential.  Your request is non-sensical and hypocritical in all honesty.

I have to admit that I've never understood the obession with forcing the player to have to make extremely painful choices in terms of which powers to improve. Some specialisation is welcome, yes, but when you create a situation where the player can realistically only experience half of what the class has to offer on a single playthrough is just frustrating. ME1 seemed to do a much better job in this regard than ME2.

It also implies that all powers are perfectly balanced against each other, otherwise they just don't get chosen and the class builds become all similar - look what happened to the adept and vanguard, both as a result of shockwave not being balanced.

[No Snakes Alive]

I think being able to max 6 of 10 powers would be the sweet spot. 2 passives and 4 other powers seems like more than enough to me. It encourages more build variety, more replayability, and more planning ahead, which are all part of what makes RPG's fun for a lot of gamers. Being able to max almost everything, even with different choices along the way would lead to Oblivion syndrome. OP characters that only differ very slightly from one another is a bad design choice for an RPG. At the same time, we don't want too few. Nobody wants to feel limited in a game about character progression.

For me personally, 6 is the sweet spot but I could see a boring sit-behind-cover-and-spam-powers caster wanting more. And TBH it's easier for me to just not use any skill points I feel are superfluous than it would be for them to forego their preferred gameplay style b/c of points being spread too thin.

So yes I agree that we should have to make hard choices in RPG's but I also have the willpower to be able to limit myself if the game doesn't do it for me. Passives and drone powers only (maybe an armor power too if we can have two bonus powers) for my Engineer, CC only and skip the debuff powers for my Sentinel, etc. Complaining about it may have some valid points, but it seems silly in a single player game where you can solve the problem yourself.

Unless you have some sort of OCD that compels you to use every single skill point you're given.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 22 janvier 2012 - 06:19 .

[Silver77nz]

I'm very happy with Kaidan powers but I always use Reave. So since he has it there is no point in me using it as well. I always play Inflitrator so what is a good bonus power to use with Inflitrator?

[Omega-202]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I think being able to max 6 of 10 powers would be the sweet spot. 2 passives and 4 other powers seems like more than enough to me. It encourages more build variety, more replayability, and more planning ahead, which are all part of what makes RPG's fun for a lot of gamers. Being able to max almost everything, even with different choices along the way would lead to Oblivion syndrome. OP characters that only differ very slightly from one another is a bad design choice for an RPG. At the same time, we don't want too few. Nobody wants to feel limited in a game about character progression.

For me personally, 6 is the sweet spot but I could see a boring sit-behind-cover-and-spam-powers caster wanting more. And TBH it's easier for me to just not use any skill points I feel are superfluous than it would be for them to forego their preferred gameplay style b/c of points being spread too thin.

6 is most definitely too few.  

Lets look at some examples:
Soldiers- Right off the bat, if Adrenaline Rush is all that it was in ME2, that's a no brainer and it's rank 6 "1 power use" evolution seems pretty huge.  That's 1 full.  Combat Mastery has so many goodies in it, obvious 2nd full.  Frag Grenade is off the cooldown.  I have a feeling these powers will be really important so thats 3.  If Concussive Shot ends up being as awesome and viable as we keep hearing, and the "uses ammo power upgrade" is as awesome as it sounds, thats 4.  And we haven't even touched the ammo powers yet.  Disruptor and Incendiary to rank 5 at the very least seems reasonable for the extra ammo.  Fitness to rank 2 for at least the health and shields.  

So right there, you're at 117 with no bonus power and completely disregarding Cryo Ammo, possibly the best squad ammo from ME2 and gimping Fitness.  This is where your approximately 6 maxed powers gets you.  Its a solid build in theory but where's the fun?  Just to be what I'd consider viable, you need around 120, forget about taking powers that you feel would be fun and interesting.  


Vanguard - Charge 6...duh.  Nova 5/6 (need at least the lower recharge after Nova upgrade).  Ammo powers up to extra ammo.  Pull to Pull field (rank 4).  2 Passives to 6.  That adds up to 124.

Again, without a bonus power and completely ignoring Shockwave, you're at the 6 powers worth of points limit.  I'm sorry but this build seems barebones.  This is what the most BASIC of Vanguards should look like, not a customized one.  

Modifié par Omega-202, 22 janvier 2012 - 06:44 .

[jasonsantanna]

Does anyone know how different will carnage be from concussive shot. . . what I mean is say that I play soldier and level up concussive shot so that ammo powers are used (adding inferno ammo). . .
picking carnage as a bonus power , are they very different or is that redundant because they will virtually operate in the same manner. . . .?

[Ahglock]

JaegerBane wrote...


I have to admit that I've never understood the obession with forcing the player to have to make extremely painful choices in terms of which powers to improve. Some specialisation is welcome, yes, but when you create a situation where the player can realistically only experience half of what the class has to offer on a single playthrough is just frustrating. ME1 seemed to do a much better job in this regard than ME2.

It also implies that all powers are perfectly balanced against each other, otherwise they just don't get chosen and the class builds become all similar - look what happened to the adept and vanguard, both as a result of shockwave not being balanced.

I feel the same way.  

[No Snakes Alive]

Omega-202 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I think being able to max 6 of 10 powers would be the sweet spot. 2 passives and 4 other powers seems like more than enough to me. It encourages more build variety, more replayability, and more planning ahead, which are all part of what makes RPG's fun for a lot of gamers. Being able to max almost everything, even with different choices along the way would lead to Oblivion syndrome. OP characters that only differ very slightly from one another is a bad design choice for an RPG. At the same time, we don't want too few. Nobody wants to feel limited in a game about character progression.

For me personally, 6 is the sweet spot but I could see a boring sit-behind-cover-and-spam-powers caster wanting more. And TBH it's easier for me to just not use any skill points I feel are superfluous than it would be for them to forego their preferred gameplay style b/c of points being spread too thin.

6 is most definitely too few.  

Lets look at some examples:
Soldiers- Right off the bat, if Adrenaline Rush is all that it was in ME2, that's a no brainer and it's rank 6 "1 power use" evolution seems pretty huge.  That's 1 full.  Combat Mastery has so many goodies in it, obvious 2nd full.  Frag Grenade is off the cooldown.  I have a feeling these powers will be really important so thats 3.  If Concussive Shot ends up being as awesome and viable as we keep hearing, and the "uses ammo power upgrade" is as awesome as it sounds, thats 4.  And we haven't even touched the ammo powers yet.  Disruptor and Incendiary to rank 5 at the very least seems reasonable for the extra ammo.  Fitness to rank 2 for at least the health and shields.  

So right there, you're at 117 with no bonus power and completely disregarding Cryo Ammo, possibly the best squad ammo from ME2 and gimping Fitness.  This is where your approximately 6 maxed powers gets you.  Its a solid build in theory but where's the fun?  Just to be what I'd consider viable, you need around 120, forget about taking powers that you feel would be fun and interesting.  


Vanguard - Charge 6...duh.  Nova 5/6 (need at least the lower recharge after Nova upgrade).  Ammo powers up to extra ammo.  Pull to Pull field (rank 4).  2 Passives to 6.  That adds up to 124.

Again, without a bonus power and completely ignoring Shockwave, you're at the 6 powers worth of points limit.  I'm sorry but this build seems barebones.  This is what the most BASIC of Vanguards should look like, not a customized one.  

See but you're obviously one of those people that wants your character to be able to do everything. So like I said in what you quoted, Bioware should let us have enough points to max 8 or 9 of our powers just to appease the people like you who feel they need every ammo power, passive, and castable power too. People such as myself and Sage who want to have to make the hard choices to end up with specialized, focused and efficient builds that differ from one another can just self-impose those restrictions. Sure it's hard to give up Sabotage, Cryo Blast, and Overload on an Engineer what with all their new upgrades and CC potential but I want a Drone specialist.

If I make a Soldier he's going to have a melee focus with only the most CC-geared ammo powers and Concussive shot spec'd to use their effects. My Vanguard won't need more than passives, one or two Ammo powers, one or two Biotic powers, and Charge/Nova to become an efficient death machine with plenty of gameplay diversity. Nothing barebones about being focused. There's no room for customization at all on your "basic Vanguard" there.

I get that a lot of people want their Shepard to handle all the CC and debuffing and killing himself, but I'm with Sage on that. Nothing more boring than a do-it-all character. That being said, if they limit our points to appease us, all you other folks can do is mod your game, whereas if they give us all those points, all Sage and I need to do is put points only where we see fit. So I guess it's better if they give us too many points than too few.

That said, I still stand by 6 maxed powers (maaaaybe 7 if we can take 2 bonus powers) being just right for a focused build though.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 22 janvier 2012 - 07:21 .

[AVPen]

Ok folks, I'm a bit late on this (been replaying ME2 with my canon Shepard, redoing a few choices here and there), but here's the infomation and ranks that I've found for Biotic Charge as well as Tech Armor, Fortification, and Barrier:

EDIT: Corrected Tech Armor's 3rd Rank.


Biotic Charge
2nd Rank
Recharge Speed   Increases recharge speed by x%.

3rd Rank
Damage/Force   x% increase to damage and force. 

4th Rank
Damage/Force   x% increase to damage and force.
OR
Impact Radius   Hits up to x additional targets within x meters of the impact point.

5th Rank
Weapon Synergy   Increases weapon damage by x% for x seconds after a successful charge.
OR
Power Synergy   Increases power damage and force by x% for x seconds after a successful charge.

6th Rank
Recharge   Your charge has a x% chance of not triggering a cooldown.
OR
Barrier   Adds x% to the amount of barrier restored after a successful charge.


Tech Armor   Energy-charged armor that reduces all damage taken but increases encumbrance, slowing down power usage. You can detonate this armor to damage all nearby enemies.
2nd Rank
Recharge Speed   Increases recharge speed after detonating the armor by x%.

3rd Rank
Durability   Increases damage reduction by an additional x%. 

4th Rank
Durability   Increases damage reduction by an additional x%. 
OR
Damage/Radius   Increase detonation damage by x% and impact radius by x%.  

5th Rank
Power Synergy   x% increase to power damage and force while Tech Armor is active.
OR
Melee Synergy   x% increase to melee damage while Tech Armor is active.

6th Rank
Durability   Increases damage reduction by an additional x%.
OR
Encumbrance   Reduces the encumbrance penalty of Tech Armor by x.


Fortification   Armor that reduces all damage taken but increases encumbrance, slowing down power usage. You can disable this armor at any time by using it again to give a massive boost to melee damage for a short time (may also increase health??).
2nd Rank
Recharge   Increase recharge speed after detonation by x%.

3rd Rank
Melee Damage   Adds x% to the melee damage bonus you get when purging your armor. 

4th Rank
Melee Damage   Adds x% to the melee damage bonus you get when purging your armor.
OR
Durability   Adds x% to damage reduction. 

5th Rank
Recharge Speed   Increases the rate your shields regenerate by x%.
OR
Power Synergy   When Fortification is active, power damage and force is increased by x%.

6th Rank
Durability   Adds x% to damage reduction.
OR
Encumbrance   Reduces the encumbrance penalty of Fortification by x.


I couldn't find many of Barrier's evolution ranks or their descriptions, but I did find the description of the power itself, along with what I believe to be the order of the 5th and 6th Ranks:

Barrier    Creates a mass effect shield that reduces all damage taken but increases encumbrance, slowing down power usage. You can detonate this armor to damage all nearby enemies and lift them into the air for a short time, but this overloads powers for a short time.

Duration (2nd Rank???) 

Impact Radius (3rd Rank???)

5th Rank
Shield Recharge   While Barrier is active, shields regenerate x% faster.
OR
Power Synergy   While Barrier is active, the damage and force of biotic powers is increased by x%

6th Rank
Encumbrance   Reduces the encumbrance penalty of Barrier by x.
OR
Barrier Strength   Damage is reduced by an additional x%.

Modifié par AVPen, 23 janvier 2012 - 12:11 .

[Ghost43]

Whoa, does charge recharge your shields 100% at level one? It sure looks that way. Thanks AVpen.

Modifié par Ghost43, 22 janvier 2012 - 07:26 .

[No Snakes Alive]

OH MAN I may just have to take Fortification this time around. It seems like the armor of choice for ANY melee build. Now I reeeeally hope they give us two bonus powers.

[Omega-202]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

See but you're obviously one of those people that wants your character to be able to do everything. So like I said in what you quoted, Bioware should let us have enough points to max 8 or 9 of our powers just to appease the people like you who feel they need every ammo power, passive, and castable power too. People such as myself and Sage who want to have to make the hard choices to end up with specialized, focused and efficient builds that differ from one another can just self-impose those restrictions. Sure it's hard to give up Sabotage, Cryo Blast, and Overload on an Engineer what with all their new upgrades and CC potential but I want a Drone specialist.

If I make a Soldier he's going to have a melee focus with only the most CC-geared ammo powers and Concussive shot spec'd to use their effects. My Vanguard won't need more than passives, one or two Ammo powers, one or two Biotic powers, and Charge/Nova to become an efficient death machine with plenty of gameplay diversity. Nothing barebones about being focused.

I get that a lot of people want their Shepard to handle all the CC and debuffing and killing himself, but I'm with Sage on that. Nothing more boring than a do-it-all character. That being said, if they limit our points to appease us, all you other folks can do is mod your game, whereas if they give us all those points, all Sage and I need to do is put points only where we see fit. So I guess it's better if they give us too many points than too few.

That said, I still stand by 6 maxed powers (maaaaybe 7 if we can take 2 bonus powers) being just right for a focused build though.

I don't want a Master-Jack-of-all-Trades, I just want the character I play to embody the class it represents.  

Your Vanguard example fits directly into what I alotted.  But what if someone wants to take a bonus power like some sort of bonus grenade to fill in the lack of one?  What do you drop out of that build?  Charge?  Not a chance.  Nova?  Way too synergistic with Charge.  Passives?  No way in hell without greatly reducing effectiveness.  So you're left with Pull and ammo powers.  You take away Pull and the Vanguard build has no ranged punch what-so-ever.  You limit the ammo powers down and it gets to the point where their contribution is neglible at best.  You eliminate one of the two and then you've just lost a lot of the tactical gameplay and decision making when it comes to picking the right ammo for the right enemy.  

Customization is about flavor AND substance.  Sacrificing the build's substance for extra flavor ends up giving you a bowl of sauce instead of a tasty burger with all of the trimmings.  

I advocate 150 points at the very minimum for a 9 power system, 160 for a 10 power system.  

[Ahglock]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

See but you're obviously one of those people that wants your character to be able to do everything. So like I said in what you quoted, Bioware should let us have enough points to max 8 or 9 of our powers just to appease the people like you who feel they need every ammo power, passive, and castable power too. People such as myself and Sage who want to have to make the hard choices to end up with specialized, focused and efficient builds that differ from one another can just self-impose those restrictions. Sure it's hard to give up Sabotage, Cryo Blast, and Overload on an Engineer what with all their new upgrades and CC potential but I want a Drone specialist.

If I make a Soldier he's going to have a melee focus with only the most CC-geared ammo powers and Concussive shot spec'd to use their effects. My Vanguard won't need more than passives, one or two Ammo powers, one or two Biotic powers, and Charge/Nova to become an efficient death machine with plenty of gameplay diversity. Nothing barebones about being focused. There's no room for customization at all on your "basic Vanguard" there.

I get that a lot of people want their Shepard to handle all the CC and debuffing and killing himself, but I'm with Sage on that. Nothing more boring than a do-it-all character. That being said, if they limit our points to appease us, all you other folks can do is mod your game, whereas if they give us all those points, all Sage and I need to do is put points only where we see fit. So I guess it's better if they give us too many points than too few.

That said, I still stand by 6 maxed powers (maaaaybe 7 if we can take 2 bonus powers) being just right for a focused build though.

Nice to know that you are better than him, and he is wrong and needs to be appeased.  But hey if you like to think your way is more mature and difficult choice route go for it.  

[mineralica]

Thanks for info, AVPen!

I stop complaining about "Kaidan gets this useless Barrier, waah!" from now.

[AVPen]

Ghost43 wrote...

Whoa, does charge recharge your shields 100% at level one? It sure looks that way. Thanks AVpen.

No, it's refering to the recharge speed of the Charge's cooldown.

[Omega-202]

AVPen wrote...

Ghost43 wrote...

Whoa, does charge recharge your shields 100% at level one? It sure looks that way. Thanks AVpen.

No, it's refering to the recharge speed of the Charge's cooldown.

No, he's referring to the fact that there's no mention in the ranks about how much of your shields it restores.  In ME2, each rank had a facet that increased the amount of restored shields.  He's assuming that because this facet is not mentioned in the ranks that it is included in the base power itself.  

Based on the leaked multiplayer footage, this doesn't seem to the the case though.  In the leaked videos, the Vanguard's Charge only restored 50% shields.  

[Ghost43]

AVPen wrote...

Ghost43 wrote...

Whoa, does charge recharge your shields 100% at level one? It sure looks that way. Thanks AVpen.

No, it's refering to the recharge speed of the Charge's cooldown.

Oh, I see that, but the powers as listed don't list the shield percentage recharged.In ME2, lvl 1 recharged 25% of your shields( or added 25% to your current shields), lvl 2 50%, lvl 3 75%, and lvl 4 100%, if you went with champion. I don't see that mentioned in the update you gave, though it could just be incomplete info.

  So.. either the recharge is fixed at 100%, perhaps with time dialation, or your info incomplete, OR charge can't recharge your shields 100%, which would be insane. If it's the first, that's a really strong level 1 power.

Edit: Crap. Omega, that was faster, shorter, and better written.

Modifié par Ghost43, 22 janvier 2012 - 07:49 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Ahglock wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

See but you're obviously one of those people that wants your character to be able to do everything. So like I said in what you quoted, Bioware should let us have enough points to max 8 or 9 of our powers just to appease the people like you who feel they need every ammo power, passive, and castable power too. People such as myself and Sage who want to have to make the hard choices to end up with specialized, focused and efficient builds that differ from one another can just self-impose those restrictions. Sure it's hard to give up Sabotage, Cryo Blast, and Overload on an Engineer what with all their new upgrades and CC potential but I want a Drone specialist.

If I make a Soldier he's going to have a melee focus with only the most CC-geared ammo powers and Concussive shot spec'd to use their effects. My Vanguard won't need more than passives, one or two Ammo powers, one or two Biotic powers, and Charge/Nova to become an efficient death machine with plenty of gameplay diversity. Nothing barebones about being focused. There's no room for customization at all on your "basic Vanguard" there.

I get that a lot of people want their Shepard to handle all the CC and debuffing and killing himself, but I'm with Sage on that. Nothing more boring than a do-it-all character. That being said, if they limit our points to appease us, all you other folks can do is mod your game, whereas if they give us all those points, all Sage and I need to do is put points only where we see fit. So I guess it's better if they give us too many points than too few.

That said, I still stand by 6 maxed powers (maaaaybe 7 if we can take 2 bonus powers) being just right for a focused build though.

Nice to know that you are better than him, and he is wrong and needs to be appeased.  But hey if you like to think your way is more mature and difficult choice route go for it.  

Nice to know that you lack reading comprehension at even the most fundamental level. Holy crap I've never seen anyone infer so much so incorrectly from a single post. Poor guy.

Bioware can't appease both the people that want to be forced to play more focused builds and the people that want jack-of-all-trades builds, right? Not possible. That's easy enough to understand I hope? So I proposed that even though I fall into the former category, it would make more sense for Bioware to give us extra points and people such as myself just don't use the points we find unnecessary for our planned builds rather than give other people too few points and they're assed out unless they mod the game.

How you got that I'm better than him from that is beyond me, but clearly there's someone here I am better than when it comes to reading. Plenty of people out there like OP characters and enjoy games like Oblivion where the only end-game difference is how you play rather than what you're capable of. To each his own. I prefer the Skyrim style of having to choose a focus, plan ahead and replay if I want to experience something different.

And if I really had a superiority complex about it I think I'd argue for less points because "my way is right and everyone else should learn to adapt to what I want," rather than acknowledge the other view and admit the game would be better for everyone if it catered to that instead.

Good job, though.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 22 janvier 2012 - 07:51 .

[Ghost43]

Omega, if charge still restores shields based on level, maybe level 6 could bring you to 150 percent.

[Omega-202]

Ghost43 wrote...

Omega, if charge still restores shields based on level, maybe level 6 could bring you to 150 percent.

No idea.  

What we do know is that it still restores some shields if the leaked MP videos are still applicable.  How much per rank, I don't know.  

What I fear is that its only 50% for all ranks but lvl 6 which has the "Barrier" evolution which would make it 100%.  That would be a large downgrade for the power in terms of its durability.  

We'll see in a few weeks I guess.  

[No Snakes Alive]

Omega-202 wrote...

Ghost43 wrote...

Omega, if charge still restores shields based on level, maybe level 6 could bring you to 150 percent.

No idea.  

What we do know is that it still restores some shields if the leaked MP videos are still applicable.  How much per rank, I don't know.  

What I fear is that its only 50% for all ranks but lvl 6 which has the "Barrier" evolution which would make it 100%.  That would be a large downgrade for the power in terms of its durability.  

We'll see in a few weeks I guess.  

Yeah, it definitely looks that way to me, too. Seems like there's going to be an important synergy between Nova and Charge too in regards to how much Charge restores your shields (barrier) and how much Nova expends them. Can't wait to find out all the finalized deets and plan accordingly.

[luckyloser_62]

Is anyone else now imagining a vanguard with barrier charging into a group of enemies, detonating barrier to lift all of them, then using nova to send them flying. I'm really stoked to play my canon vanguard.

@AVPen is there anything suggesting that barrier lasts only a limited time like Phantom had suggested? from the power description you found it looks to me like it lasts until detonated just like the other shield powers.