3405 réponses à ce sujet

[el master pr]

Looks a lot to me like the skill system in ME1. Thanks, but I'll stay with the simpler ME2/ME3 system.

[D.Kain]

el master pr wrote...

Looks a lot to me like the skill system in ME1. Thanks, but I'll stay with the simpler ME2/ME3 system.

How is it even close to ME1 system? 

[Omega-202]

D.Kain wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Ughhh.... sorry, but no thanks - it was that kind of tedious micro-management that kinda drove me up the wall with upgrading ME1's Talents.

But that's not ME1 at all. ME1 was simple - put points into the power until you reach the highest level. 
Here you customize each aspect of the power individually. 

Yes and you could min-max the powers to a ridiculous degree and end up with a very large power-gap between good builds and bad builds leading us back to ME1's disgraceful difficulty system.  

If you built a god character in ME1, you were a walking bulldozer.  If you built a character based on flavor and interest, you most often ended up with a MUCH weaker character because some powers were just not worth investing in nearly as much.

[D.Kain]

Omega-202 wrote...

Yes and you could min-max the powers to a ridiculous degree and end up with a very large power-gap between good builds and bad builds leading us back to ME1's disgraceful difficulty system.  

If you built a god character in ME1, you were a walking bulldozer.  If you built a character based on flavor and interest, you most often ended up with a MUCH weaker character because some powers were just not worth investing in nearly as much.

No this one is COMPLETELY different. I just must suck at explaining. 

You can't maxout everything, you are limited in the number of points that you can invest in one power. So you just think in what aspects of power to invest, you can't have all. However all aspects of power are completely tweakable, giving the ultimate custumization. 

[Omega-202]

D.Kain wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Yes and you could min-max the powers to a ridiculous degree and end up with a very large power-gap between good builds and bad builds leading us back to ME1's disgraceful difficulty system.  

If you built a god character in ME1, you were a walking bulldozer.  If you built a character based on flavor and interest, you most often ended up with a MUCH weaker character because some powers were just not worth investing in nearly as much.

No this one is COMPLETELY different. I just must suck at explaining. 

You can't maxout everything, you are limited in the number of points that you can invest in one power. So you just think in what aspects of power to invest, you can't have all. However all aspects of power are completely tweakable, giving the ultimate custumization. 

No, I completely understood but there are certain aspects that are more effective investments than others.  

Cooldown will always be maxed on any and all powers.  That goes without saying, increasing cooldown will give you more bang for your buck over anything else.  Aspects like "freeze duration" will likely be looked over in favor of "lowered damage resistance" for powers like Cryo Blast.  Duration and Area will be taken over damaging effects for Singularity.  

And even if my conclusions are wrong about what I think would be most efficient, someone out there will do the math and figure out the most efficient investments.  Look at EVERY MMO on the market.  If you offer too much customization, someone will figure out the best possible build and any build besides that will be sub-par.  

In the end, either that ideal build will be over-powered and blast through the story like a knife through butter or the other builds will be unable to compete at the highest difficulty setting.  Certain powers and aspects will get marginalized and others will become mandatory.

Look at what has happened with Skyrim.  Taking Destruction magic is foolish and not taking Smithing and Enchanting would make you a dunce.  Fully balancing an RPG with too many options is impossible.  

Your system is giving the player too many variables to play with, and the more variables, the more likely you are to have a broken RPG.

[incinerator950]

Omega-202 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Ughhh.... sorry, but no thanks - it was that kind of tedious micro-management that kinda drove me up the wall with upgrading ME1's Talents.

But that's not ME1 at all. ME1 was simple - put points into the power until you reach the highest level. 
Here you customize each aspect of the power individually. 

Yes and you could min-max the powers to a ridiculous degree and end up with a very large power-gap between good builds and bad builds leading us back to ME1's disgraceful difficulty system.  

If you built a god character in ME1, you were a walking bulldozer.  If you built a character based on flavor and interest, you most often ended up with a MUCH weaker character because some powers were just not worth investing in nearly as much.

Exception of the Adept, because those powers on ME 1 were just plain over powered.  

[MELTOR13]

Omega-202 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Ughhh.... sorry, but no thanks - it was that kind of tedious micro-management that kinda drove me up the wall with upgrading ME1's Talents.

But that's not ME1 at all. ME1 was simple - put points into the power until you reach the highest level. 
Here you customize each aspect of the power individually. 

Yes and you could min-max the powers to a ridiculous degree and end up with a very large power-gap between good builds and bad builds leading us back to ME1's disgraceful difficulty system.  

If you built a god character in ME1, you were a walking bulldozer.  If you built a character based on flavor and interest, you most often ended up with a MUCH weaker character because some powers were just not worth investing in nearly as much.

Are you serious?

ME1 gives you so many points, pretty much every power is maxxed out by the time you get to a high level. There is no way to make a bad build, unless you just don't use the points you are given. 

[D.Kain]

Omega-202 wrote...

No, I completely understood but there are certain aspects that are more effective investments than others.  

Cooldown will always be maxed on any and all powers.  That goes without saying, increasing cooldown will give you more bang for your buck over anything else.  Aspects like "freeze duration" will likely be looked over in favor of "lowered damage resistance" for powers like Cryo Blast.  Duration and Area will be taken over damaging effects for Singularity.  

And even if my conclusions are wrong about what I think would be most efficient, someone out there will do the math and figure out the most efficient investments.  Look at EVERY MMO on the market.  If you offer too much customization, someone will figure out the best possible build and any build besides that will be sub-par.  

In the end, either that ideal build will be over-powered and blast through the story like a knife through butter or the other builds will be unable to compete at the highest difficulty setting.  Certain powers and aspects will get marginalized and others will become mandatory.

Look at what has happened with Skyrim.  Taking Destruction magic is foolish and not taking Smithing and Enchanting would make you a dunce.  Fully balancing an RPG with too many options is impossible.  

Your system is giving the player too many variables to play with, and the more variables, the more likely you are to have a broken RPG.

Haha. That's pretty funny. I would invest in Singularity damage, and I maxed Destruction magic in Skyrim, and didn't have Smithing or Enchanting.  Didn't feel bad about that choice as well.


Also imo balance is a different issue. You can tweak each aspect for there to be balance. Like for example if
cooldown is so overpowered, then you can just make bonuses to cooldowns smaller. So you would get a 20% cooldown bonus OR a 40% damage bonus, so that way both are good investments. See what I mean? 

You could end up with a singularity that works as a warp bomb for example, with maxed implosion, zero investment in duration, or you can have a singularity with no damage but bigger duration. And you can vary the size of it, and other things. 

I understand what you are saying though. 

[Razgriz9327]

this video has some updated images on the GUI and some powers... spoilers from the Sur'Kesh demo
also discussed in this thread http://social.biowar...3/index/9141980

[The Spamming Troll]

incinerator950 wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Ughhh.... sorry, but no thanks - it was that kind of tedious micro-management that kinda drove me up the wall with upgrading ME1's Talents.

But that's not ME1 at all. ME1 was simple - put points into the power until you reach the highest level. 
Here you customize each aspect of the power individually. 

Yes and you could min-max the powers to a ridiculous degree and end up with a very large power-gap between good builds and bad builds leading us back to ME1's disgraceful difficulty system.  

If you built a god character in ME1, you were a walking bulldozer.  If you built a character based on flavor and interest, you most often ended up with a MUCH weaker character because some powers were just not worth investing in nearly as much.

Exception of the Adept, because those powers on ME 1 were just plain over powered.  

immunity.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 03 février 2012 - 03:45 .

[D.Kain]

lightsnow13 wrote...

I love ME3 power system. Just as it is. But I see what you were saying - leveling up the different attributes of the ability.

While that would be some amazing customization it would feel too much like ME1 (the more I think about it..) and ME1 really wasn't a good system. I like having to choose between 2 drastic effects. It makes the decision harder to make.

I see people saying it is similar to ME1, but I really still wonder why. Isn't there no custimization at all in ME1? It was just increasing ALL effects, and no RPG to the power what so ever. While I understand, that people like ME3 system more, I just wonder where the thought of the proposed system to be similar to ME1 comes from. Strange. 

[implodinggoat]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

immunity.

I hated immunity, it totally ruined the game.   My soldier never used it.

[implodinggoat]

D.Kain wrote...

I see people saying it is similar to ME1, but I really still wonder why. Isn't there no custimization at all in ME1? It was just increasing ALL effects, and no RPG to the power what so ever. While I understand, that people like ME3 system more, I just wonder where the thought of the proposed system to be similar to ME1 comes from. Strange. 

I think its just because you have more incriments to level for each power and because the ME1 passive ability "Fitness" has made a return.

The ME3 system does bring back a few elements from the ME1 system; but its much more like the ME2 leveling system then it is like the ME1 system.   And honestly It seems like a major improvement on both of them since the multiple evolutions for each power give you a lot more options for tweaking your build.

[4ut0b4hn5child27]

I'm Surprised now that some defensive power has a bit trigger happy here.

like Tech armor and Barrier Shield has the Ability to DETONATE and all the eney near you will said WTH moment, nice !!!

[D.Kain]

implodinggoat wrote...

I think its just because you have more incriments to level for each power and because the ME1 passive ability "Fitness" has made a return.

And that is strange, since ME1 had no incriments at all. Just blant power progress, with no varieties. 

[AVPen]

Razgriz9327 wrote...

this video has some updated images on the GUI and some powers... spoilers from the Sur'Kesh demo
also discussed in this thread http://social.biowar...3/index/9141980

1. I really like the new Powers interface (it's less screen-cluttered to me)

2. Hmm, seems like that Shepard has Barrier as a Bonus Power in that demo, interesting...

3. And some updated info for Adrenaline Rush:
- 4th Rank "Hardening" = decrease health and shields damage taken by 25%
- 4th Rank "Dilation & Damage" = increase dilation by 15%, increase weapon damage by 25%
- 5th Rank "Duration" = increase power duration by 40%
- 5th Rank "Melee Damage " = increase melee damage by 50%
- 6th Rank "Power Use" = use 1 offensive power while AR is active 
- 6th Rank "Shield Boost" = increase shield strength by 50%

Modifié par AVPen, 03 février 2012 - 04:15 .

[Biotic Sage]

Razgriz9327 wrote...

this video has some updated images on the GUI and some powers... spoilers from the Sur'Kesh demo
also discussed in this thread http://social.biowar...3/index/9141980

The best part about that video is that when it showed the power wheel, it had the option of "Press Y to map power to Y" in addition to the X and B for RB and LB.  One game too late on that one, but late is better than never haha.

[Praetor Knight]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Does anyone remember how many points we're going to get total?

Possibly 178.

Edit: Tweet, twitter.com/#!/manveerheir/status/109343269795790848

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 03 février 2012 - 04:42 .

[implodinggoat]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Thanks. That seems like a ridiculous amount though lol.

A number of people have expressed concern about the number of leveling points available.   But; I don't think you need to be concerned.

Here's my take....

I like the ability to max out just about everything personally.    The more varied evolutions of the powers, the choice of your character's bonus power, the gear you equip and the fact that you have 6 different classes to choose from already gives you plenty of different options for building your character.

Aside from that the fact that you have a shared cooldown for powers means that maxing out more of them doesn't make you significantly more powerful it just gives you more variety.   I've played some modded ME2 saves where I maxed out everything for both Shepard and the squad and I didn't feel overpowered; but I actually had more fun since I was able to screw around with powers that I'd neglected before.   That's what late game leveling should be in my opinion,  you've already more or less built your character and now you're just screwing around with some new toys.

If it was up to me there wouldn't be a level cap at all, you'd just keep leveling till there was nothing left to level.   I don't think you should be able to max out everything on your first playthrough; but maxing out everything on a NG+ career retains the enjoyment of leveling up into the second playthrough.

PS:  I quoted an earlier post of mine because I think I made my point about as well as I could last time.  A lot of my posts can ramble; but this one was nice and concise.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 03 février 2012 - 05:18 .

[implodinggoat]

lightsnow13 wrote...

True. But I think 178 points actually maxes everything out. If there are 8 abilities to choose from (including passives) and each require 21 to max out entirely, that means you spend 168 points to max out all abilities. So..something isn't right with the 178.

Of course, that's assuming leveling up each rank is the same. Rank 1 requires 1 point. Rank 2 requires 2 points. etc..

My understanding is that 178 is enough to max out everything except for one power which you can still get to Rank 3 (or was it 4?) or to max out all but two powers both of which you'll be able to get to level 5.   Like I said though, I'm fine with being able to max everything.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 03 février 2012 - 05:56 .