3405 réponses à ce sujet

[Praetor Knight]

implodinggoat wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

True. But I think 178 points actually maxes everything out. If there are 8 abilities to choose from (including passives) and each require 21 to max out entirely, that means you spend 168 points to max out all abilities. So..something isn't right with the 178.

Of course, that's assuming leveling up each rank is the same. Rank 1 requires 1 point. Rank 2 requires 2 points. etc..

My understanding is that 178 is enough to max out everything except for one power which you can still get to Rank 3 (or was it 4?) or to max out all but two powers both of which you'll be able to get to level 5.   Like I said though, I'm fine with being able to max everything.

I guess it depends on how much Levels 5 and 6 will cost.

If it would take 24 points to completely level for example we would only be able to level up 7 of the eight powers.

So for example I could also see a progression of 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 for a total of 24 as another possibility.



But how many total powers will we have, is it eight?

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 03 février 2012 - 06:23 .

[Dariustwinblade]

Does singularity explode. Like a blackstorm singularity.

[Biotic Sage]

@Praetor Shepard

All of the ranks cost the amount of the respective rank. So Rank 3 would cost 3 pts, Rank 5 would cost 5 pts, etc. This is how it has been on all of the demos, beta versions, and demonstrations.

Thus, it will cost a total of 21 squad points to achieve all 6 ranks on a single power.

As for the number of powers we will have, each class has 6 active powers that will be selectable from the power wheel, 2 passive powers (class mastery and fitness), and 1 bonus power.  That's a total of 9 powers.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 03 février 2012 - 06:20 .

[Praetor Knight]

^ cool, so nine it is.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 03 février 2012 - 06:21 .

[Last Vizard]

incinerator950 wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Ughhh.... sorry, but no thanks - it was that kind of tedious micro-management that kinda drove me up the wall with upgrading ME1's Talents.

But that's not ME1 at all. ME1 was simple - put points into the power until you reach the highest level. 
Here you customize each aspect of the power individually. 

Yes and you could min-max the powers to a ridiculous degree and end up with a very large power-gap between good builds and bad builds leading us back to ME1's disgraceful difficulty system.  

If you built a god character in ME1, you were a walking bulldozer.  If you built a character based on flavor and interest, you most often ended up with a MUCH weaker character because some powers were just not worth investing in nearly as much.

Exception of the Adept, because those powers on ME 1 were just plain over powered.  

And the Adept is the rule for underpowered in ME 2 on higher difficulties

[Last Vizard]

lightsnow13 wrote...

I love ME3 power system. Just as it is. But I see what you were saying - leveling up the different attributes of the ability.

While that would be some amazing customization it would feel too much like ME1 (the more I think about it..) and ME1 really wasn't a good system. I like having to choose between 2 drastic effects. It makes the decision harder to make.

... ME3 system is just an extention of the ME2 system, more variables makes the decision harder while less means easier.   this is a TPS AND RPG, sick of streamlined games because we can't have anything that too hard for the average casual gaming idiot now can we 

One of my friends is an idiot that will not play anything indepth RTS (with an economy) During our LANs,  sick of people who give up because things are "hard"

[Last Vizard]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Thanks. That seems like a ridiculous amount though lol.

This is the final game, Shep cannot finish weaker than when he started...

[Last Vizard]

implodinggoat wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

Thanks. That seems like a ridiculous amount though lol.

A number of people have expressed concern about the number of leveling points available.   But; I don't think you need to be concerned.

Here's my take....

I like the ability to max out just about everything personally.    The more varied evolutions of the powers, the choice of your character's bonus power, the gear you equip and the fact that you have 6 different classes to choose from already gives you plenty of different options for building your character.

Aside from that the fact that you have a shared cooldown for powers means that maxing out more of them doesn't make you significantly more powerful it just gives you more variety.   I've played some modded ME2 saves where I maxed out everything for both Shepard and the squad and I didn't feel overpowered; but I actually had more fun since I was able to screw around with powers that I'd neglected before.   That's what late game leveling should be in my opinion,  you've already more or less built your character and now you're just screwing around with some new toys.

If it was up to me there wouldn't be a level cap at all, you'd just keep leveling till there was nothing left to level.   I don't think you should be able to max out everything on your first playthrough; but maxing out everything on a NG+ career retains the enjoyment of leveling up into the second playthrough.

PS:  I quoted an earlier post of mine because I think I made my point about as well as I could last time.  A lot of my posts can ramble; but this one was nice and concise.

I totally agree with you mate

[Dariustwinblade]

This is rediculous Adepts are suppose to be the most powerful class by lore.

Yet they are the weakest class Gameplaywise.


Now that Overload effects both barriers and shields it COMPLETELY IMBALANCES the game.

In me2 you had three/four types of health bars.
And three normal type damaging power and two bonus type damaging power.
They were Warp,Incinerate and Overload and bonus powers were Reave and energy drain.


Each power effect two or more health type.


Synthetic health- Overload(Engineer/Sentinal) and Energy drain

Organic health- Warp(Sentinal/Adept), Incinerate(Infaltrator/Engineer) and Reave

Armor- Warp(Sentinal/Adept), Incinerate(Infaltrator/Engineer) and Reave

Barrier-Warp(Adepts/Sentinal) and Reave

Shields- Overload(Sentinal/Engineer) and Energy drain


In Me3 among the three caster class Sentinal, Adepts and Engineer.

Sentinals= Anti-everything
Adepts= no anti-shields and synthetic
Engineer=no anti-barrier

It was balanced.

NOW IN ME3 OVERLOAD ALWAYS EFEECTS BIOTIC BARRIER.

Hence sentinals and engineer get ANTI-EVERY. Adepts are still worthless against synthetics.

WTF Bioware WHY THE HELL DOES THE ADEPT PLAYERS GET THE SHORT END OF THE STICK.

[Last Vizard]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

This is rediculous Adepts are suppose to be the most powerful class by lore.

Yet they are the weakest class Gameplaywise.


Now that Overload effects both barriers and shields it COMPLETELY IMBALANCES the game.

In me2 you had three/four types of health bars.
And three normal type damaging power and two bonus type damaging power.
They were Warp,Incinerate and Overload and bonus powers were Reave and energy drain.


Each power effect two or more health type.


Synthetic health- Overload(Engineer/Sentinal) and Energy drain

Organic health- Warp(Sentinal/Adept), Incinerate(Infaltrator/Engineer) and Reave

Armor- Warp(Sentinal/Adept), Incinerate(Infaltrator/Engineer) and Reave

Barrier-Warp(Adepts/Sentinal) and Reave

Shields- Overload(Sentinal/Engineer) and Energy drain


In Me3 among the three caster class Sentinal, Adepts and Engineer.

Sentinals= Anti-everything
Adepts= no anti-shields and synthetic
Engineer=no anti-barrier

It was balanced.

NOW IN ME3 OVERLOAD ALWAYS EFEECTS BIOTIC BARRIER.

Hence sentinals and engineer get ANTI-EVERY. Adepts are still worthless against synthetics.

WTF Bioware WHY THE HELL DOES THE ADEPT PLAYERS GET THE SHORT END OF THE STICK.

Because none of the staff play Adept as their number one class, so they kinda forget about it each time until its gold... then its too late but hey, they just think "well, I don't play Adept so it doesn't matter"

Modifié par Last Vizard, 03 février 2012 - 09:09 .

[Someone With Mass]

Many of the biotic powers can be evolved to affect armor and/or shields...

[CroGamer002]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Many of the biotic powers can be evolved to affect armor and/or shields...

Don't say that.

BSN doesn't like when someone is proven wrong.

[Someone With Mass]

Logic? On BSN?

It's more likely than you think.

Read up on power evolutions before complaining.

[Last Vizard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Many of the biotic powers can be evolved to affect armor and/or shields...

I may end up having fun playing my favourite class in ME3, however the signs so far point to the fact that it will be a pain when Adepts are compared to the other classes.  One of the latest reviews, from another thread (the one that played the game for 90 minutes) said a Cerberus soldier rolled away from his warp so it didn't hit...

I'm guessing he was playing on normal so will Adepts be at the greatest disadvantage again on insanity because all Adept abilities need to travel and connect with the enemy to work.  we shall see in the end however I will not sit here with cow eyes while I wait for the slaughter man to finish with the one infront of me.  (in other words I'll voice my concern before the event) - spelled it out for the people who did or would've voted for Bush

Modifié par Last Vizard, 03 février 2012 - 05:11 .

[goofyomnivore]

This is rediculous Adepts are suppose to be the most powerful class by lore.

Says who? Most powerful biotic yes, but biotics =/= most powerful period.

Now that Overload effects both barriers and shields it COMPLETELY IMBALANCES the game.

The Engineer doesn't have the firepower versus health that an Adept has. So if it can't strip defenses better it is weaker. Same for the Sentinel.

Adepts are still worthless against synthetics.

Throw is one of the best skills versus synthetics, specifically Loki Mechs. (aim it at their legs or head)

Sentinals= Anti-everything
Adepts= no anti-shields and synthetic
Engineer=no anti-barrier

If that is your criteria I'm surprised you can justify it being balanced in Mass Effect 2. There is about 1 barrier mob to the 5 shielded ones.

NOW IN ME3 OVERLOAD ALWAYS EFEECTS BIOTIC BARRIER.

So? Warp effects shields in Mass Effect 2. Heavy Warp with upgrades does quite a bit of damage compared to the 0 Overload gets versus armor, health and barriers.


I never understood people how people claim the Adept is underpowered. All the classes can make Insanity really easy with the proper build and tactics.

PS: Cryo Blast+Throw looks like a viable replacement to the Pull+Throw combo for the Sentinel with the frozen damage multiplier+throw detonating when the target hits an object. Also remember the cooldown bonus for using tech/bitoic powers back to back.

Modifié par strive, 03 février 2012 - 10:40 .

[Last Vizard]

@strive

1. Adept class is the class that focuses on biotic abilities... they are the best biotics

2. Need to play the game before we can tell how each class compares however the other guy does have cause for concern because so far the Adept abilities seem to have goten less attention from the Devs, we shall see.

3. are you talking about the normal droids?.... everything can kill them, I think he may be talking about Geth enemies in ME3

4. Yeah, Adepts definately suffered due to the protection systems on higher levels of difficulty.  The only thing that can explain how this was overlooked is that very few or none of the Devs play Adept as their favourite class.

5. Warp is the Adepts main damage dealing attack, thats why it needs to damage everything however now overload does that too however it wasn't something Engineers NEED to focus on.  Every other class in ME 3 seems to be really interesting and vastly improved upon while the Adept gets a biotic grenade.

[incinerator950]

Last Vizard wrote...

4. Yeah, Adepts definately suffered due to the protection systems on higher levels of difficulty.  The only thing that can explain how this was overlooked is that very few or none of the Devs play Adept as their favourite class.

Or the fact the Adept was broken in ME 1, where the default Soldier was overpowered. 

Modifié par incinerator950, 03 février 2012 - 12:31 .

[Last Vizard]

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

4. Yeah, Adepts definately suffered due to the protection systems on higher levels of difficulty.  The only thing that can explain how this was overlooked is that very few or none of the Devs play Adept as their favourite class.

Or the fact the Adept was broken in ME 1, where the default Soldier was overpowered. 

Every class was overpowered in ME1, Adept could make a room float while Soldiers were invincible.  Your counter to my argument about ME2 is that in ME 1 Adepts should've played like ME 2 Soldier/Adept?

[incinerator950]

Last Vizard wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

4. Yeah, Adepts definately suffered due to the protection systems on higher levels of difficulty.  The only thing that can explain how this was overlooked is that very few or none of the Devs play Adept as their favourite class.

Or the fact the Adept was broken in ME 1, where the default Soldier was overpowered. 

Every class was overpowered in ME1, Adept could make a room float while Soldiers were invincible.  Your counter to my argument about ME2 is that in ME 1 Adepts should've played like ME 2 Soldier/Adept?

I'm not countering your argument, I'm just reminding you and everyone else who complains that the Adept was more broken then the rest of the already overpowered classes.  I just did an ME 2 Insanity run on my Adept for the first time in over a year.  I managed to get missions done that I had a difficult time with a Sentinel or Vanguard, with my Adept.  

Don't assume criticising or reminders to be counter-intuitive to the points you are making.  Don't forget, the Dev team has other assets to worry about.  Even if you centralized a different character (Casey play's Infiltrators), the game was scripted as a Soldier.  A few things were hiccuped, but in no means did they forget the Casting classes. 

Modifié par incinerator950, 03 février 2012 - 12:50 .

[Last Vizard]

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

4. Yeah, Adepts definately suffered due to the protection systems on higher levels of difficulty.  The only thing that can explain how this was overlooked is that very few or none of the Devs play Adept as their favourite class.

Or the fact the Adept was broken in ME 1, where the default Soldier was overpowered. 

Every class was overpowered in ME1, Adept could make a room float while Soldiers were invincible.  Your counter to my argument about ME2 is that in ME 1 Adepts should've played like ME 2 Soldier/Adept?

I'm not countering your argument, I'm just reminding you and everyone else who complains that the Adept was more broken then the rest of the already overpowered classes.  I just did an ME 2 Insanity run on my Adept for the first time in over a year.  I managed to get missions done that I had a difficult time with a Sentinel or Vanguard, with my Adept.  

Don't assume criticising or reminders to be counter-intuitive to the points you are making.  Don't forget, the Dev team has other assets to worry about.  Even if you centralized a different character (Casey play's Infiltrators), the game was scripted as a Soldier.  A few things were hiccuped, but in no means did they forget the Casting classes. 

Overpower - biotic grenade, who didn't they forget again?

Modifié par Last Vizard, 03 février 2012 - 01:04 .

[incinerator950]

Last Vizard wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

4. Yeah, Adepts definately suffered due to the protection systems on higher levels of difficulty.  The only thing that can explain how this was overlooked is that very few or none of the Devs play Adept as their favourite class.

Or the fact the Adept was broken in ME 1, where the default Soldier was overpowered. 

Every class was overpowered in ME1, Adept could make a room float while Soldiers were invincible.  Your counter to my argument about ME2 is that in ME 1 Adepts should've played like ME 2 Soldier/Adept?

I'm not countering your argument, I'm just reminding you and everyone else who complains that the Adept was more broken then the rest of the already overpowered classes.  I just did an ME 2 Insanity run on my Adept for the first time in over a year.  I managed to get missions done that I had a difficult time with a Sentinel or Vanguard, with my Adept.  

Don't assume criticising or reminders to be counter-intuitive to the points you are making.  Don't forget, the Dev team has other assets to worry about.  Even if you centralized a different character (Casey play's Infiltrators), the game was scripted as a Soldier.  A few things were hiccuped, but in no means did they forget the Casting classes. 

Overpower - biotic grenade, who didn't they forget?

I can see I'm already wasting my time.

[Last Vizard]

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

4. Yeah, Adepts definately suffered due to the protection systems on higher levels of difficulty.  The only thing that can explain how this was overlooked is that very few or none of the Devs play Adept as their favourite class.

Or the fact the Adept was broken in ME 1, where the default Soldier was overpowered. 

Every class was overpowered in ME1, Adept could make a room float while Soldiers were invincible.  Your counter to my argument about ME2 is that in ME 1 Adepts should've played like ME 2 Soldier/Adept?

I'm not countering your argument, I'm just reminding you and everyone else who complains that the Adept was more broken then the rest of the already overpowered classes.  I just did an ME 2 Insanity run on my Adept for the first time in over a year.  I managed to get missions done that I had a difficult time with a Sentinel or Vanguard, with my Adept.  

Don't assume criticising or reminders to be counter-intuitive to the points you are making.  Don't forget, the Dev team has other assets to worry about.  Even if you centralized a different character (Casey play's Infiltrators), the game was scripted as a Soldier.  A few things were hiccuped, but in no means did they forget the Casting classes. 

Overpower - biotic grenade, who didn't they forget?

I can see I'm already wasting my time.

lol didn't infiltrator get alot of work done on it for ME3?

[goofyomnivore]

1. Adept class is the class that focuses on biotic abilities... they are the best biotics

That is what I said?

2. Need to play the game before we can tell how each class compares however the other guy does have cause for concern because so far the Adept abilities seem to have goten less attention from the Devs, we shall see.

I was speaking in terms of Mass Effect 2.

3. are you talking about the normal droids?.... everything can kill them, I think he may be talking about Geth enemies in ME3

Pull+Throw isn't exactly a tough combo to pull off. Garrus->Overload; Shepard->Pull->Warp(group)->Throw(one) takes about 3s to do while being more versatile and having more utility.

4. Yeah, Adepts definately suffered due to the protection systems on higher levels of difficulty. The only thing that can explain how this was overlooked is that very few or none of the Devs play Adept as their favourite class.

How did they suffer? There is just as much health as their are defenses excluding bosses. Adepts have way more ways to exploit health than other classes do defenses. If you're addressing the defenses presents on mooks. I'd say it was favorable to shields by about a 60-40 advantage over armor/barriers. Which isn't that big of a deal. I was just merely questioning his idea of balance.

5. Warp is the Adepts main damage dealing attack, thats why it needs to damage everything however now overload does that too however it wasn't something Engineers NEED to focus on. Every other class in ME 3 seems to be really interesting and vastly improved upon while the Adept gets a biotic grenade.

Overload doesn't make a 9m aoe damaging cc on everything either. I'd say the Adept benefits quite a bit more than the other classes from the new power evolution system. I'd consider that an interesting change.

Modifié par strive, 03 février 2012 - 01:25 .

[Last Vizard]

@strive

1. Yes you did and so did I

2. I thought you were talking about ME3

3. Yeah

4. ok

5.  Isn't the radius of Warp 6m? The Adept would atleast benifit more from the changes because it was behind the other classes in ME2, the new ability Adepts get is biotic grenade instead of the class specific overpower.  the excuse was they couldn't get it to work the way they wanted.
 
When did they decide to test the Adept class?
How much time was spent with each class?

I may be wrong however from where I'm standing, it seems that the Adept class wasn't anyones favourite so less effort was taken on it.  I still don't understand how they can come up with a grenade for a casting class as our brand spanking new ability....

[Someone With Mass]

Last Vizard wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Many of the biotic powers can be evolved to affect armor and/or shields...

I may end up having fun playing my favourite class in ME3, however this signs so far point to the fact that it will be a pain when Adepts are compared to the other classes.  One of the latest reviews I was linked to from another thread (the ones that played the game for 90 minutes) said a Cerberus soldier rolled away from his warp so it didn't hit...

Well, I think it's only fair that they can avoid your attacks just as much as you can avoid theirs.

It makes it a bit more interesting too.