372 réponses à ce sujet

[Weskerr]

Bad King wrote...

TheZyzyva wrote...

I don't support Udina, and I don't support the current state of affairs either. I chose Anderson hoping he would promote more equality rather than acting in the interests of any one species alone. He opposed Sarens lack of control as well, I'd say he's hardly a fan of the amount of power spectres have.

But a human councillor should be looking out for humanity alone. It's the reason why humans want to be on the council- that way we can push our own interests far more effectively.

As much as I like Anderson as a person, he's no good at politics. Udina has mastered the game, and good politicians can better promote their constituant's interests (he has his own interests too but so what? What politician doesn't have ambition?) than bad politicans (who incidentally, tend not to stay in office for very long). The only reason I can think of why so many people dislike Udina is that he's always blunt and to the point when he says something (people don't like bluntness, even when what is being said is true) and he doesn't treat Shepard with kid gloves.

Yes, he made a mistake when he grounded the Normandy in ME1, but people forget all the good he did too:

1: He promoted Shepard for Spectre status against the Council's grumblings.

2. He called the council out for what they were (anti-human) when they refused to aid humanity's attacked colonies (in ME1)

3. He supported Shepard's claim that Saren was a traitor and needed to be stopped while the Council scoffed at the idea (until they were presented with irrefutable evidence)

In ME2 (if you saved the Council and appoint Udina as Councilor) he is the one dissenting vote of 3:1 against investigating the human colony disappearances and he is again the one dissenting vote of 3:1 in favor of negotiating with the Batarian Hegemony to reduce trade restrictions in exchange for them dismantling their albedo satelite technology that they claim is used for terraforming but can be used as a weapon of mass destruction, calling the deal "negotiating with terrorists," which it is.

[khordlambert]

laecraft wrote...

Udina's under a lot of pressure. It would appear that the old Council simply ganged up against him. His seat on the Council is a mere formality. He's still unable to defend human interests. His vote will always be one against three.

It won't be long before we lose even this little advantage. The heroic deeds do tend to conveniently fade from memory, and after the Reaper invasion, who will remember the battle for the Citadel and its hero? The krogan and the turians are being united into the biggest badass force in the entire galaxy. Fifty years from now, who will remember the human who, risking his life, escorted the krogan female from Sur'Kesh?

Oh, but maybe we'll get a human statue on the Citadel! The next generations of the aliens will wonder what it's doing there, and who's that person of the now-extinct species.

Humanity needs a real firepower to backup our "honorary" political position. The asari have been at this for millennia. EVERYBODY loves the asari. The turians have the biggest fleet in the galaxy. Disagree with them, and they will bomb you into the stone age. And don't ever mess with the salarians. Their STG will make you disappear before you're even conceived.

We need something like this, too. To secure our dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers... and beyond.

The all-human Council is even worse - too weak and terrified to stand on its own, without any backup from the three dominant species, and the real power is being redistributed elsewhere, and we can count days to the moment when the all-human Council will be blamed for galaxy's destruction and removed. No, no. Better the old Council be in charge when the Reapers happen. Then we can blame them. Especially since it's their own fault that they didn't listen.

Thing of the matter here is that I agree with you somewhat. The only problem is that humanity doesn't have ANYTHING to match up with what your describing here. Who could we use? Cerberus? The organization that by what we've seen can't make a new toilet without killing off most of the team attached? The organization that just makes humanity look even WORSE whenever their little science projects goes public? The organization that seems to attract loony bigots like moths to a flame? No. We need something thats actually competantly run.

[Bad King]

khordlambert wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Udina's under a lot of pressure. It would appear that the old Council simply ganged up against him. His seat on the Council is a mere formality. He's still unable to defend human interests. His vote will always be one against three.

It won't be long before we lose even this little advantage. The heroic deeds do tend to conveniently fade from memory, and after the Reaper invasion, who will remember the battle for the Citadel and its hero? The krogan and the turians are being united into the biggest badass force in the entire galaxy. Fifty years from now, who will remember the human who, risking his life, escorted the krogan female from Sur'Kesh?

Oh, but maybe we'll get a human statue on the Citadel! The next generations of the aliens will wonder what it's doing there, and who's that person of the now-extinct species.

Humanity needs a real firepower to backup our "honorary" political position. The asari have been at this for millennia. EVERYBODY loves the asari. The turians have the biggest fleet in the galaxy. Disagree with them, and they will bomb you into the stone age. And don't ever mess with the salarians. Their STG will make you disappear before you're even conceived.

We need something like this, too. To secure our dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers... and beyond.

The all-human Council is even worse - too weak and terrified to stand on its own, without any backup from the three dominant species, and the real power is being redistributed elsewhere, and we can count days to the moment when the all-human Council will be blamed for galaxy's destruction and removed. No, no. Better the old Council be in charge when the Reapers happen. Then we can blame them. Especially since it's their own fault that they didn't listen.

Thing of the matter here is that I agree with you somewhat. The only problem is that humanity doesn't have ANYTHING to match up with what your describing here. Who could we use? Cerberus? The organization that by what we've seen can't make a new toilet without killing off most of the team attached? The organization that just makes humanity look even WORSE whenever their little science projects goes public? The organization that seems to attract loony bigots like moths to a flame? No. We need something thats actually competantly run.

Looking at their army in ME3, it looks like Cerberus have done well for themselves, according to BioWare's N7 Ops on the ME3 website:

Cerberus Centurions are frontline tacticians that fight alongside their
soldiers. These squadron leaders carry out high-level instructions laid
out by the Illusive Man. How the Illusive Man recruited and trained such
a large number of top-line battlefield commanders is a worrying
mystery. Cerberus, once comprised of small, covert cells of agents, is
now a burgeoning and unconcealed threat to the galaxy. In the face of
the immediate Reaper threat, Alliance Intelligence has scuttled their
attempts to infiltrate Cerberus to find out how the Illusive Man managed
to quickly swell his organization’s ranks. The only useful intel
gathered on the Centurions are their armaments. Each Centurion carries a
modified M-96 Mattock that launches smoke grenades to blind their
targets, making their enemies vulnerable to vicious crossfire they can
no longer see.

"Strong as a semi, and just as maneuverable" is how Cerberus soldiers
describe the Atlas Infantry Fighting Exoskeleton. Cerberus' research arm
sought to combine the deadly armor and firepower of a YMIR mech with
the tactical superiority of a trained human pilot, and in this respect
they succeeded admirably. The Atlas features an antipersonnel mass
accelerator, armor-piercing missiles, and an element zero core that
allows it to be air-dropped onto a battlefield with minimal impact
damage. Its thick armor includes a transparent shield that protects its
operator and allows for good visibility. The shield is made from a
polycrystalline material proprietary to Cerberus – Alliance engineers
can only hypothesize that it is some kind of synthetic sapphire
composite with interlayers to avoid cracking and thermal damage.
Whatever it is, it's been the end of many opponents who thought they
could put a bullet through it, only to find that they’ve leaned out of
cover and angered the pilot of a very deadly war machine.

Pretend that they're incompetent if you like, I will personally be taking Cerberus seriously as an enemy. Also, while the organisation does attract some crazies and bigots, you have to remember that a lot of Cerberus personel have noble goals.

[Killjoy Cutter]

All this handwringing about the future galactic political position of the species that saved the Citadel and has one of the largest fleets makes me chuckle.

[Luigitornado]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Without a sense of realism the choices lose a lot of their impact.

More choices for the player if they just dump the whole system = better experience.

[khordlambert]

Bad King wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Udina's under a lot of pressure. It would appear that the old Council simply ganged up against him. His seat on the Council is a mere formality. He's still unable to defend human interests. His vote will always be one against three.

It won't be long before we lose even this little advantage. The heroic deeds do tend to conveniently fade from memory, and after the Reaper invasion, who will remember the battle for the Citadel and its hero? The krogan and the turians are being united into the biggest badass force in the entire galaxy. Fifty years from now, who will remember the human who, risking his life, escorted the krogan female from Sur'Kesh?

Oh, but maybe we'll get a human statue on the Citadel! The next generations of the aliens will wonder what it's doing there, and who's that person of the now-extinct species.

Humanity needs a real firepower to backup our "honorary" political position. The asari have been at this for millennia. EVERYBODY loves the asari. The turians have the biggest fleet in the galaxy. Disagree with them, and they will bomb you into the stone age. And don't ever mess with the salarians. Their STG will make you disappear before you're even conceived.

We need something like this, too. To secure our dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers... and beyond.

The all-human Council is even worse - too weak and terrified to stand on its own, without any backup from the three dominant species, and the real power is being redistributed elsewhere, and we can count days to the moment when the all-human Council will be blamed for galaxy's destruction and removed. No, no. Better the old Council be in charge when the Reapers happen. Then we can blame them. Especially since it's their own fault that they didn't listen.

Thing of the matter here is that I agree with you somewhat. The only problem is that humanity doesn't have ANYTHING to match up with what your describing here. Who could we use? Cerberus? The organization that by what we've seen can't make a new toilet without killing off most of the team attached? The organization that just makes humanity look even WORSE whenever their little science projects goes public? The organization that seems to attract loony bigots like moths to a flame? No. We need something thats actually competantly run.

Looking at their army in ME3, it looks like Cerberus have done well for themselves, according to BioWare's N7 Ops on the ME3 website:

Cerberus Centurions are frontline tacticians that fight alongside their
soldiers. These squadron leaders carry out high-level instructions laid
out by the Illusive Man. How the Illusive Man recruited and trained such
a large number of top-line battlefield commanders is a worrying
mystery. Cerberus, once comprised of small, covert cells of agents, is
now a burgeoning and unconcealed threat to the galaxy. In the face of
the immediate Reaper threat, Alliance Intelligence has scuttled their
attempts to infiltrate Cerberus to find out how the Illusive Man managed
to quickly swell his organization’s ranks. The only useful intel
gathered on the Centurions are their armaments. Each Centurion carries a
modified M-96 Mattock that launches smoke grenades to blind their
targets, making their enemies vulnerable to vicious crossfire they can
no longer see.

"Strong as a semi, and just as maneuverable" is how Cerberus soldiers
describe the Atlas Infantry Fighting Exoskeleton. Cerberus' research arm
sought to combine the deadly armor and firepower of a YMIR mech with
the tactical superiority of a trained human pilot, and in this respect
they succeeded admirably. The Atlas features an antipersonnel mass
accelerator, armor-piercing missiles, and an element zero core that
allows it to be air-dropped onto a battlefield with minimal impact
damage. Its thick armor includes a transparent shield that protects its
operator and allows for good visibility. The shield is made from a
polycrystalline material proprietary to Cerberus – Alliance engineers
can only hypothesize that it is some kind of synthetic sapphire
composite with interlayers to avoid cracking and thermal damage.
Whatever it is, it's been the end of many opponents who thought they
could put a bullet through it, only to find that they’ve leaned out of
cover and angered the pilot of a very deadly war machine.

Pretend that they're incompetent if you like, I will personally be taking Cerberus seriously as an enemy. Also, while the organisation does attract some crazies and bigots, you have to remember that a lot of Cerberus personel have noble goals.

Actually, I'd say this at least proves that Cerberus is at least VERY bad with money. If they had all of THAT at their disposal, WHY THE HECK DID THEY EVEN BOTHER BRINGING BACK SHEPARD!?

[Undertone]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Paragon and renegade are about methods and approaches to the same problems and often the paragon and renegade have the same objectives they just differ on how they are going to achieve those objectives. The paragon tends to think of long term consequences not just for humanity but for the galaxy as a whole, while the renegade tends to focus on the more immediate short term consequences.

Actually you got this completely wrong.

Paragons choose to let Balak go in order to save some random hostages knowing that Balak can do the same in the long run.

Paragons choose to destroy potential resouce that can be used in the future for oh well sanctemonious morals and "derp using it is wrong"? 

Paragons choose to let the Rachni go without any potential logical knowledge on how this will turn out in the future and purely wishful assumption that the Rachni will miraculously turn out to be good guys and help vs the Reapers.

Paragons let Fist go assuming he will not do any harm in the future, assuming Helena will become a model citizen and stop her gang (especially after she has full control of it) as she says.  This is applied to practically any criminal Shep encounters. 

If anything Paragon lacks any realistic vision for the future and any long term view on it and is purely idealism and wishful thinking which unfortunately works out 100% of the time because Bioware is biased towards them. 

Renegade is doing what is necessary to secure long term goals be it to ensure Humanity survives and prospers or to ensure the Galaxy is safe. That the Rachni happen to be good guys is purely wishful thinking and blind luck considering what consequences can happen if they turn out to be aggressive again and unleashed on an unsuspecting galaxy. Or indoctrinated as allies to the Reapers again which has already happened.

And let's not mention how wasting ships to save some politicians that have been stalling you and doubting you at any point and have proven to be ineffective at the expense of the ENTIRE galaxy is anything but long term thinking. Again that Sovereign didn't have enough time to reactivate it and that the humans had enough ships to destroy it is again entirely blind luck and wishful thinking.

Modifié par Undertone, 30 août 2011 - 06:00 .

[Yezdigerd]

Undertone wrote...

Paragons let Fist go assuming he will not do any harm in the future, assuming Helena will become a model citizen and stop her gang (especially after she has full control of it) as she says.  This is applied to practically any criminal Shep encounters.

I find it remarkable that you think a gangsterstyle murder of Fist is a "realistic vision" of the conduct of a Navy commander. You must be from Somalia or something.

[Seboist]

Undertone wrote...

Actually you got this completely wrong.

Paragons choose to let Balak go in order to save some random hostages knowing that Balak can do the same in the long run.

Paragons choose to destroy potential resouce that can be used in the future for oh well sanctemonious morals and "derp using it is wrong"? 

Paragons choose to let the Rachni go without any potential logical knowledge on how this will turn out in the future and purely wishful assumption that the Rachni will miraculously turn out to be good guys and help vs the Reapers.

Paragons let Fist go assuming he will not do any harm in the future, assuming Helena will become a model citizen and stop her gang (especially after she has full control of it) as she says.  This is applied to practically any criminal Shep encounters. 

If anything Paragon lacks any realistic vision for the future and any long term view on it and is purely idealism and wishful thinking which unfortunately works out 100% of the time because Bioware is biased towards them. 

Renegade is doing what is necessary to secure long term goals be it to ensure Humanity survives and prospers or to ensure the Galaxy is safe. That the Rachni happen to be good guys is purely wishful thinking and blind luck considering what consequences can happen if they turn out to be aggressive again and unleashed on an unsuspecting galaxy. Or indoctrinated as allies to the Reapers again which has already happened.

And let's not mention how wasting ships to save some politicians that have been stalling you and doubting you at any point and have proven to be ineffective at the expense of the ENTIRE galaxy is anything but long term thinking. Again that Sovereign didn't have enough time to reactivate it and that the humans had enough ships to destroy it is again entirely blind luck and wishful thinking.

It's very weird how Paragon Shepard has no issues with using Maelon's genophage data despite how it was obtained but when it comes to the collector base' technology the moral highground has to be taken. It's the same with Paragon Shepard willing to ally with all sorts of dangerous entities like the Krogan,Geth and Rachni but temporarily working with Cerberus which is a mickey mouse outfit compared to those groups against machines that have been exterminating people for millions of years is too much of an extreme to consider.

Even from a non-pro-renegade perspective the Paragon path is utterly bizarre with it's blubbering idealism, hypocrisy and inconsistency.

[Seboist]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Paragons let Fist go assuming he will not do any harm in the future, assuming Helena will become a model citizen and stop her gang (especially after she has full control of it) as she says.  This is applied to practically any criminal Shep encounters.

I find it remarkable that you think a gangsterstyle murder of Fist is a "realistic vision" of the conduct of a Navy commander. You must be from Somalia or something.

What's remarkable here is you thinking it's no big deal for a squad armed to the teeth to storm into a private nightclub without authorization and gun down all it's security but killing one more guy is some cardinal sin.

[Dean_the_Young]

You could also point out how little Shepard takes issue with the Lazarus project. Or all the Cerberus technology and resources a galactically-vilified terrorist group procures and provides for him. Or all the elements and examples of Reaper technology. Or everything bought off of the Illium/Omega markets, where legalized immorality and no legality at all are presumed.

Shepard complaining about 'tainted' resources is like a moralist boycotting Walmart for its foreign labor practices and going to Target instead.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Pure paragon and pure renegade are both silly unrealistics standards that ignore the details of a particular situation in order to apply a hypothetical absolute. Get over it.

[Yezdigerd]

Seboist wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Paragons let Fist go assuming he will not do any harm in the future, assuming Helena will become a model citizen and stop her gang (especially after she has full control of it) as she says.  This is applied to practically any criminal Shep encounters.

I find it remarkable that you think a gangsterstyle murder of Fist is a "realistic vision" of the conduct of a Navy commander. You must be from Somalia or something.

What's remarkable here is you thinking it's no big deal for a squad armed to the teeth to storm into a private nightclub without authorization and gun down all it's security but killing one more guy is some cardinal sin.

Where have I said I don't find that a big deal? a tourist assaulting a shady nightclub, killing 15+ people is silly too.
But it could at least be possibly to stretch disbelief to some form of self defence.
Killing a defenceless Fist in cold blood would be a murder in just about any nation in the world. Performed in front of a C-sec officer and/or alliance personal. In a trial, under oath the result could only be one thing and renegade Shepard would be dishonorable  discharged and begin new his life in prison or psychiatric care.

[Killjoy Cutter]

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It's very weird how Paragon Shepard has no issues with using Maelon's genophage data despite how it was obtained but when it comes to the collector base' technology the moral highground has to be taken.

Keeping the cure after killing Maelon is the biggest hypocrisy moment in the entire game. The methods and the goals are unacceptable, but the results are useful, let's keep them? The only other moment of hypocrisy of this magnitude is when the Alliance makes good use of Grayson's body. Apparently it's evil and horrible and stupid to inject a living person with Reaper tech, but the result is extremely useful, let's keep it for ourselves and study it and show it to the Council to convince them that the Reapers exist!

I fully expect the Paragon Shepard to murder TIM and then look at all the tech TIM made from researching the Collector base, and then shrug and say, "Would be a waste not to put it to good use. Let's use it to fight the Reapers."

We're too moral and pure to touch any of this soul-sacrificing business with our spotless hands, but once someone's done the dirty job for us, we're happy to use the results. And while we're at it, let's condemn and renounce the one we owe it to. They're either evil or they've gone completely rogue. We have nothing to do with them. It's good for our shiny image.

And you can guess who's going to get the credit for the victory. It won't be Maelon, and it won't be Cerberus. Even though they're instrumental in this, and they're the ones who paid the price for it, and they were working purposedly towards this goal from the very beginning, not just happened on the results when they fell into their hands.

My Sheps don't give the CB to TIM. 

It's not because "the knowledge is tainted" or some such BS. 

It's because the CB is in an undefendable location that could fall at any moment.

It's because the CB might just have the same effect on any personnel left there that the derelict Reaper did, and the games have been murky on whether that effect can be detected, defended against, etc. 

It's because TIM has proven himself untrustworthy too many times over the course of ME2 (and because of what we see Cerberus involved in over and over in ME1).

[Seboist]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Paragons let Fist go assuming he will not do any harm in the future, assuming Helena will become a model citizen and stop her gang (especially after she has full control of it) as she says.  This is applied to practically any criminal Shep encounters.

I find it remarkable that you think a gangsterstyle murder of Fist is a "realistic vision" of the conduct of a Navy commander. You must be from Somalia or something.

What's remarkable here is you thinking it's no big deal for a squad armed to the teeth to storm into a private nightclub without authorization and gun down all it's security but killing one more guy is some cardinal sin.

Where have I said I don't find that a big deal? a tourist assaulting a shady nightclub, killing 15+ people is silly too.
But it could at least be possibly to stretch disbelief to some form of self defence.
Killing a defenceless Fist in cold blood would be a murder in just about any nation in the world. Performed in front of a C-sec officer and/or alliance personal. In a trial, under oath the result could only be one thing and renegade Shepard would be dishonorable  discharged and begin new his life in prison or psychiatric care.

That's why my Shepard brings along an assassin hired by the Shadow Broker to take out Fist with her. :happy:

[marshalleck]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It's very weird how Paragon Shepard has no issues with using Maelon's genophage data despite how it was obtained but when it comes to the collector base' technology the moral highground has to be taken.

Keeping the cure after killing Maelon is the biggest hypocrisy moment in the entire game. The methods and the goals are unacceptable, but the results are useful, let's keep them? The only other moment of hypocrisy of this magnitude is when the Alliance makes good use of Grayson's body. Apparently it's evil and horrible and stupid to inject a living person with Reaper tech, but the result is extremely useful, let's keep it for ourselves and study it and show it to the Council to convince them that the Reapers exist!

I fully expect the Paragon Shepard to murder TIM and then look at all the tech TIM made from researching the Collector base, and then shrug and say, "Would be a waste not to put it to good use. Let's use it to fight the Reapers."

We're too moral and pure to touch any of this soul-sacrificing business with our spotless hands, but once someone's done the dirty job for us, we're happy to use the results. And while we're at it, let's condemn and renounce the one we owe it to. They're either evil or they've gone completely rogue. We have nothing to do with them. It's good for our shiny image.

And you can guess who's going to get the credit for the victory. It won't be Maelon, and it won't be Cerberus. Even though they're instrumental in this, and they're the ones who paid the price for it, and they were working purposedly towards this goal from the very beginning, not just happened on the results when they fell into their hands.

My Sheps don't give the CB to TIM. 

It's not because "the knowledge is tainted" or some such BS. 

It's because the CB is in an undefendable location that could fall at any moment.

It's because the CB might just have the same effect on any personnel left there that the derelict Reaper did, and the games have been murky on whether that effect can be detected, defended against, etc. 

It's because TIM has proven himself untrustworthy too many times over the course of ME2 (and because of what we see Cerberus involved in over and over in ME1).

Umm, no, your Shepard gave the "I won't let fear compromise who I am" speech. Sorry. Those reasons you listed were not the reasons given for destroying the base.

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 août 2011 - 07:33 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Way to take the high road marsh...

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 30 août 2011 - 07:41 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Yezdigerd wrote...


Where have I said I don't find that a big deal? a tourist assaulting a shady nightclub, killing 15+ people is silly too.
But it could at least be possibly to stretch disbelief to some form of self defence.
Killing a defenceless Fist in cold blood would be a murder in just about any nation in the world. Performed in front of a C-sec officer and/or alliance personal. In a trial, under oath the result could only be one thing and renegade Shepard would be dishonorable  discharged and begin new his life in prison or psychiatric care.

I disagree. It should rather be evident that the Alliance and Council are not western liberal democracies in theory or practice (the sort that hold your 'any nation in the world' standard, and often not even then). They do not hold the standards of behaviors like you say: they outright glorify the opposite.

The most famous and empowered agents of the Council have only one limit, political inconvenience to the Council. The galaxy's peace-keeping force has an actual doctrine about not distinguishing between military and civilian. The galaxy's foremost peace-keepers have institutionalized slavery. And the galaxy's first and best conspiracy-theorists sanction collective punishment warcrimes against the descendents of their enemies.

Don't mistake the Mass Effect universe for the Anglo-Euro laws of war.

[Killjoy Cutter]

marshalleck wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It's very weird how Paragon Shepard has no issues with using Maelon's genophage data despite how it was obtained but when it comes to the collector base' technology the moral highground has to be taken.

Keeping the cure after killing Maelon is the biggest hypocrisy moment in the entire game. The methods and the goals are unacceptable, but the results are useful, let's keep them? The only other moment of hypocrisy of this magnitude is when the Alliance makes good use of Grayson's body. Apparently it's evil and horrible and stupid to inject a living person with Reaper tech, but the result is extremely useful, let's keep it for ourselves and study it and show it to the Council to convince them that the Reapers exist!

I fully expect the Paragon Shepard to murder TIM and then look at all the tech TIM made from researching the Collector base, and then shrug and say, "Would be a waste not to put it to good use. Let's use it to fight the Reapers."

We're too moral and pure to touch any of this soul-sacrificing business with our spotless hands, but once someone's done the dirty job for us, we're happy to use the results. And while we're at it, let's condemn and renounce the one we owe it to. They're either evil or they've gone completely rogue. We have nothing to do with them. It's good for our shiny image.

And you can guess who's going to get the credit for the victory. It won't be Maelon, and it won't be Cerberus. Even though they're instrumental in this, and they're the ones who paid the price for it, and they were working purposedly towards this goal from the very beginning, not just happened on the results when they fell into their hands.

My Sheps don't give the CB to TIM. 

It's not because "the knowledge is tainted" or some such BS. 

It's because the CB is in an undefendable location that could fall at any moment.

It's because the CB might just have the same effect on any personnel left there that the derelict Reaper did, and the games have been murky on whether that effect can be detected, defended against, etc. 

It's because TIM has proven himself untrustworthy too many times over the course of ME2 (and because of what we see Cerberus involved in over and over in ME1).

Umm, no, your Shepard gave the "I won't let fear compromise who I am" speech. Sorry. Those reasons you listed were not the reasons given for destroying the base.

My Sheps do things for the reasons I say my Sheps do them. 

/discussion

[Killjoy Cutter]

laecraft wrote...

I wonder how many Paragon Shepards would still destroy the base if it was labeled as a Renegade choice.

*raises hand*

Mine would.

It's not about paragon and renegade.  


EDIT:  But it seems that people on each side of the debate have this caricature of the other side in their head, this silly distorted picture of why people make the other choice. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 30 août 2011 - 08:17 .

[Lunatic LK47]

laecraft wrote...

I wonder how many Paragon Shepards would still destroy the base if it was labeled as a Renegade choice.

*Raises hand*