372 réponses à ce sujet

[UltimaRai]

Saphra Deden wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

And yet you act on faith that Cerberus WONT screw things up when they have the Collector base,

I'm not acting on faith at all. My actions are driven by the need for better understanding of Reaper technology. Cerberus could botch it, but I see no compelling reason to believe this is a certainty or that the risk of such outweighs the risk of going to war with the Reapers without adequate knowledge and technology.

Which is worse, a botched Cerberus operation or a hopeless war against the Reapers? I can clean up a Cerberus mess easier than I can win an unwinnable war.

Faith:happy:

[Homebound]

its less about realism and more about perception and the fortification of perception through self-fulfilling prophecies.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

And yet you act on faith that Cerberus WONT screw things up when they have the Collector base,

I'm not acting on faith at all. My actions are driven by the need for better understanding of Reaper technology. Cerberus could botch it, but I see no compelling reason to believe this is a certainty or that the risk of such outweighs the risk of going to war with the Reapers without adequate knowledge and technology.

Which is worse, a botched Cerberus operation or a hopeless war against the Reapers? I can clean up a Cerberus mess easier than I can win an unwinnable war.

Exactly how much actual "reaper tech" do you expect to find on the CB?  Some of the most useful Reaper Tech in the base is destroyed by Shep without even giving the player a choice (the actual tube-like mechanism "converting" human goo into Reaper, and the Reaper itself).  TIM expects to find collector technology on the CB, and while it is definitely more advanced then what we have now, there is nothing to suggest that it would put us on par with the Reapers.  If the Reapers made the Collectors, and gave them the technology capable of destroying their creators, then the Reapers are dumber then I thought, and we should be able to take them out with ease.

[UltimaRai]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

And yet you act on faith that Cerberus WONT screw things up when they have the Collector base,

I'm not acting on faith at all. My actions are driven by the need for better understanding of Reaper technology. Cerberus could botch it, but I see no compelling reason to believe this is a certainty or that the risk of such outweighs the risk of going to war with the Reapers without adequate knowledge and technology.

Which is worse, a botched Cerberus operation or a hopeless war against the Reapers? I can clean up a Cerberus mess easier than I can win an unwinnable war.

Exactly how much actual "reaper tech" do you expect to find on the CB?  Some of the most useful Reaper Tech in the base is destroyed by Shep without even giving the player a choice (the actual tube-like mechanism "converting" human goo into Reaper, and the Reaper itself).  TIM expects to find collector technology on the CB, and while it is definitely more advanced then what we have now, there is nothing to suggest that it would put us on par with the Reapers.  If the Reapers made the Collectors, and gave them the technology capable of destroying their creators, then the Reapers are dumber then I thought, and we should be able to take them out with ease.

Well a possible theory is that the collectors are like the tranquil they are calmed and therfore pose no threat, so it's like if a templar gave a tranquil a staff, most harmful damage he could do with just the staff is hit someone, not set things ablaze.

[ThePwener]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

UltimaRai wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

It is irresponsible for someone in Shepard's position to act on faith.

Sometimes that's all you have. 

Too bad ME does it wrong in that department.Things happen no matter what you do. That's what irks me. The nearest we have to "faith" is the CB , and even then Cerberus still comes after you no matter what you do. That's bad writing. ME is too streamlined. Alpha Protocol opened my eyes.

I have to say, how did AP open your eyes? I'm a Paragon to the core and I destroyed those two greedy ********.

In AP, EVERYTHING effects the story. I said something in the first hour of the game that was brought up in the finale. Seriously, check out the wiki. EVERYTHING, LITERALLY, plays into the story somehow. Nothing is left behind.

Damn good game. The gameplay wasn't bad either. never understood what the ****ing was about.

And when you get emails, you can download attachments, respond or sell the info to black market buyers or send to a friend for trust. And the romances work better then ME's by a longshot. You can start flirting with someone you like the second you meet them.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Exactly how much actual "reaper tech" do you expect to find on the CB? 

A ****load considering it was BUILDING A REAPER.

Yeah, maybe if you didn't BLOW UP HALF OF IT before you even try to decide whether to keep JUST THE BASE or not.  The only part of the entire mechanism left completely intact if you save the base is the pods.  So TIM will know how to liquefy people before the Reapers come.  Big Whoop.

[Sisterofshane]

UltimaRai wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

And yet you act on faith that Cerberus WONT screw things up when they have the Collector base,

I'm not acting on faith at all. My actions are driven by the need for better understanding of Reaper technology. Cerberus could botch it, but I see no compelling reason to believe this is a certainty or that the risk of such outweighs the risk of going to war with the Reapers without adequate knowledge and technology.

Which is worse, a botched Cerberus operation or a hopeless war against the Reapers? I can clean up a Cerberus mess easier than I can win an unwinnable war.

Exactly how much actual "reaper tech" do you expect to find on the CB?  Some of the most useful Reaper Tech in the base is destroyed by Shep without even giving the player a choice (the actual tube-like mechanism "converting" human goo into Reaper, and the Reaper itself).  TIM expects to find collector technology on the CB, and while it is definitely more advanced then what we have now, there is nothing to suggest that it would put us on par with the Reapers.  If the Reapers made the Collectors, and gave them the technology capable of destroying their creators, then the Reapers are dumber then I thought, and we should be able to take them out with ease.

Well a possible theory is that the collectors are like the tranquil they are calmed and therfore pose no threat, so it's like if a templar gave a tranquil a staff, most harmful damage he could do with just the staff is hit someone, not set things ablaze.

I like this, except for the fact that the Collectors were known to exchange their technology in order to obtain the "samples" that they needed.  I would be more inclined to believe that they possessed a super-secret Reaper destruct button if this wasn't the case.

That, and everything about the way the CB looks and behaves in the game suggests that it is not actual Reaper Tech itself, but possibly modified Prothean Tech (from the green panels), out-fitted with the Reaper Building Mechanism (which is partially destroyed by Shepard).  I know this is meta-gaming, but I think the devs truly designed it this way to be a clue.  All other Reaper Tech LOOKS and functions like reaper tech.

[Homebound]

what does any of the last 2 pages have to do with the realism of paragon and renegade actions? all ive seen is saphra bickering about keeping the collector castle of doom. can we get back on toppic?

[ThePwener]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

But I was just wondering how it was related to P vs. R. But choices, I get it.

It doesn;t have one. You are as smart as you are. That's realism in my book.

[UltimaRai]

I think they should have done it like Dragon Age II. A Paragon would calm the argument, whereas the Renegade would halt it. In Mass Effect I don't like how Paragons calm things always and it makes no sense, but a rough approach doesn't solve everything.

[ThePwener]

Hellbound555 wrote...

what does any of the last 2 pages have to do with the realism of paragon and renegade actions? all ive seen is saphra bickering about keeping the collector castle of doom. can we get back on toppic?

Doesn't that always end up being the topic. It's the equivalent of Goldwin's law here in the BSN.

[khordlambert]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Exactly how much actual "reaper tech" do you expect to find on the CB? 

A ****load considering it was BUILDING A REAPER.

And once again, you are acting on faith. For one, you are acting on faith that all of the tech and parts needed for a Reaper is in the base. For another, you are acting on faith that there are blueprints that tell you how to build a Reaper. For yet ANOTHER you are acting on faith that even if those blueprints ARE there, they are in a form that can be understood by anyone who is not a collector. In yet another act of faith, you are assuming that said blueprints will show any weaknesses with the Reapers that can be exploited. Finally, you are acting on faith that Cerberus will find anything useful against the Reapers before they show up.

You could start a cult with this much faith.

Modifié par khordlambert, 28 août 2011 - 05:53 .

[Homebound]

ThePwener wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

what does any of the last 2 pages have to do with the realism of paragon and renegade actions? all ive seen is saphra bickering about keeping the collector castle of doom. can we get back on toppic?

Doesn't that always end up being the topic. It's the equivalent of Goldwin's law here in the BSN.

so why DO people bring realism into p vs r?

[GreenDragon37]

I love how the Renegades say that Paragons are idiots for acting on "blind faith", but the Renegades are acting on blind faith when it comes to Cerberus. You are trusting TIM to not **** up. But then they say, "nope, Renegade is pragmatic, it's fact." It's so hypocritical.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 28 août 2011 - 05:57 .

[UltimaRai]

Sisterofshane wrote...

UltimaRai wrote...

Well a possible theory is that the collectors are like the tranquil they are calmed and therfore pose no threat, so it's like if a templar gave a tranquil a staff, most harmful damage he could do with just the staff is hit someone, not set things ablaze.

I like this, except for the fact that the Collectors were known to exchange their technology in order to obtain the "samples" that they needed.  I would be more inclined to believe that they possessed a super-secret Reaper destruct button if this wasn't the case.

That, and everything about the way the CB looks and behaves in the game suggests that it is not actual Reaper Tech itself, but possibly modified Prothean Tech (from the green panels), out-fitted with the Reaper Building Mechanism (which is partially destroyed by Shepard).  I know this is meta-gaming, but I think the devs truly designed it this way to be a clue.  All other Reaper Tech LOOKS and functions like reaper tech.

Well a possible conclusion is that, like the tranquil Owain they still have little sense, as Owain only gives you what you need if you have the authority. So the Collectors don't trade the reaper's tech because it's obvious not to.
Also the ship could've had some sort of Reaper tech storage only detectable when the tech is active, like how EDI didn't sense the human reaper until deep within the CB.

[ThePwener]

khordlambert wrote...

And once again, you are acting on faith. For one, you are acting on faith that all of the tech and parts needed for a Reaper is in the base. For another, you are acting on faith that there are blueprints that tell you how to build a Reaper. For yet ANOTHER you are acting on faith that even if those blueprints ARE there, they are in a form that can be understood by anyone who is not a collector. Finally, you are acting on faith that Cerberus will find anything useful against the Reapers before they show up.

You could start a cult with this much faith.

No matter what happened, cerberus found something.....



Friend or foe?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Hellbound555 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

what does any of the last 2 pages have to do with the realism of paragon and renegade actions? all ive seen is saphra bickering about keeping the collector castle of doom. can we get back on toppic?

Doesn't that always end up being the topic. It's the equivalent of Goldwin's law here in the BSN.

so why DO people bring realism into p vs r?

Feel good about themselves,and to put down the other guy.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...


Yeah, maybe if you didn't BLOW UP HALF OF IT before you even try to decide whether to keep

The pieces are still left behind and they aren't scattered across thousands of square miles of open space. The machinery which produced that incomplete Reaper is also still intact.

This time I have not just a wrecked car, but the factory that made the car.

Finding Reaper "plans" would be, for me, the extent of what we could possibly find from the CB.  But it's not so much the Reaper itself that I would fear in a battle, but rather it's "shell" or ship.  The Reaper itself had some defense mechanisms, to be sure, but it was still easily taken down by three people on foot.  It may have been incomplete, but I could assume that a complete Reaper by itself would not stand much chance against a ship like the Normandy.  So, I think that whatever we could gain would only be marginally helpful in a fight against the Reapers.

So, to complete the analogy, we know how the car is made, but we don't know how to get past the tank the car in encased in so that we can disassemble it.

[GreenDragon37]

ThePwener wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

And once again, you are acting on faith. For one, you are acting on faith that all of the tech and parts needed for a Reaper is in the base. For another, you are acting on faith that there are blueprints that tell you how to build a Reaper. For yet ANOTHER you are acting on faith that even if those blueprints ARE there, they are in a form that can be understood by anyone who is not a collector. Finally, you are acting on faith that Cerberus will find anything useful against the Reapers before they show up.

You could start a cult with this much faith.

No matter what happened, cerberus found something.....



Friend or foe?

I'd definitely call that a foe.

[khordlambert]

Saphra Deden wrote...

khordlambert wrote...

And once again, you are acting on faith.

No I'm not. I saw the Reaper with my own eyes as well as the machinery being used to build it.

That's not faith, that's fact.

And once again, Saphra ignores the main point someone was making. Way to go on getting through life with your subjective blindness condition Saphra! It must be so hard for you.